How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from therimrattler. Show therimrattler's posts

    How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    I have been watching Gonzalez all season like every other Sox fan, and was wondering how much influence he is having on some of the other Sox hitters.

    Ortiz has been a much better hitter this year.  Ellsbury has been a much better hitter this year.  Reddick is doing much better.  Saltalamacchia is improving.  Varitek has rebounded back to at least respectability.

    I am not sure how much coaching he does with these other guys, but they at least much be paying close attention.  Ortiz has praised Gonzalez publicly quite a while ago as being a much bigger influence than Manny was, and like Manny or not he could hit.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    In Response to How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?:
    [QUOTE]I have been watching Gonzalez all season like every other Sox fan, and was wondering how much influence he is having on some of the other Sox hitters. Ortiz has been a much better hitter this year.  Ellsbury has been a much better hitter this year.  Reddick is doing much better.  Saltalamacchia is improving.  Varitek has rebounded back to at least respectability. I am not sure how much coaching he does with these other guys, but they at least much be paying close attention.  Ortiz has praised Gonzalez publicly quite a while ago as being a much bigger influence than Manny was, and like Manny or not he could hit.
    Posted by therimrattler[/QUOTE]

    I definitely see an influence with Ortiz...he is doing a must better job going with the pitch and hitting to left field this season. I believe Ortiz has even referred to this on occasion.

    I really don't think the other guys are influenced by Gonzalez, because they're games are so different, let's give Magadan credit for these guys. I think we are seeing Ellsbury meeting his potential right now after a 2010 season that he was inappropriately criticized.

    Also, I would think JD Drew should be following him around the clubhouse to improve his game. Although I think JD is on his retirement tour right now.

    Good topic.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from The---Babe---. Show The---Babe---'s posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    In Response to How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?:
    [QUOTE]I have been watching Gonzalez all season like every other Sox fan, and was wondering how much influence he is having on some of the other Sox hitters. Ortiz has been a much better hitter this year.  Ellsbury has been a much better hitter this year.  Reddick is doing much better.  Saltalamacchia is improving.  Varitek has rebounded back to at least respectability. I am not sure how much coaching he does with these other guys, but they at least much be paying close attention.  Ortiz has praised Gonzalez publicly quite a while ago as being a much bigger influence than Manny was, and like Manny or not he could hit.

    Posted by therimrattler[/QUOTE]

    Wouldn't say much for their hitting coach......

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from niz-58. Show niz-58's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    In Response to Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters? : Wouldn't say much for their hitting coach......
    Posted by The---Babe---[/QUOTE]

    Poor babe. Reduced to taking shots at the hitting coach.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

      MORE THAN BILL JAMES CAN COMPUTE !!!!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from niz-58. Show niz-58's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    In Response to Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters? : What exactly is a "hitting goach"?
    Posted by The---Babe---[/QUOTE]
    Fixed it, just for you.
    Keep working on spelling during summer school and that third shot at sixth grade might be the charm.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    I'm not sure it's so much what Gonzalez is telling other players about hitting as it is pitchers having to be careful no matter who they pitch to now.  There are no weak spots in the 1-7 positions now - any one of those guys can take you deep, as proved last night.  It's now become a matter of a pitcher having to "choose his poison" when deciding who to throw strikes to, and there is no good answer.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    i'm sure Francona's just thrilled that AG's given Pedroia one more thing to run his mouth about...Tongue out
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    I read a quote from Ortiz earlier this year in which he said watching Gonzalez has helped him hit left-handed pitchers better.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    AGon filled a void that was created the day Manny left. Asking Youk and Pedroia to carry the team essentially thereafter and with Ortiz struggling, was not a wise move by Boston.  If there is one hitter that has been "helped" it is Ortiz.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    In Response to Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters? : I definitely see an influence with Ortiz...he is doing a must better job going with the pitch and hitting to left field this season. I believe Ortiz has even referred to this on occasion. I really don't think the other guys are influenced by Gonzalez, because they're games are so different, let's give Magadan credit for these guys. I think we are seeing Ellsbury meeting his potential right now after a 2010 season that he was inappropriately criticized. Also, I would think JD Drew should be following him around the clubhouse to improve his game. Although I think JD is on his retirement tour right now. Good topic.
    Posted by Soxdog67[/QUOTE]

    I agree that Gonzalez has had a big influence on Ortiz.  What I like most about Gonzalez is that he seems to be such an intelligent player, not only at hitting, but in all aspects of playing the game, including what goes on in the clubhouse.

    I am a big JD Drew fan, but I thought the same thing about him as you did.  He should take a pointer or two from Adrian.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    In Response to Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?:
    [QUOTE]  MORE THAN BILL JAMES CAN COMPUTE !!!!
    Posted by Bill-806[/QUOTE]

    Bill James is the man!

    Give him time, he will figure it out!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    In Response to Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?:
    [QUOTE]AGon filled a void that was created the day Manny left. Asking Youk and Pedroia to carry the team essentially thereafter and with Ortiz struggling, was not a wise move by Boston.  If there is one hitter that has been "helped" it is Ortiz.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE] While some might read overtones into this take that the RS really had a lot of choices to make with Manny Ramirez during the deadline of '08, that aside I share this view.

    A superstar bat that hits to all fields with power and adjust to counts so successfully will always cascade through a good line-up and add to everyone's game. When the hitter works as hard at his craft as Adrian does or Manny did, it elevates the room IMO. And it changes the way teams attack the line-up around that hitter that can do as many things with a bat as A-Gon or Manny can.

    But OTOH that type of hitter in the middle of the line-up won't transform others, only enhance their game. The Padres around Adrain, Giants around Bonds weren't transformed. Whether Ortiz would have made the adjustments he has to outside pitches if Adrian had not been acquired will never be answered, but let's remember it was Ortiz who had to make them, whether watching A-Gon work inspired him or not.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    I would venture to say that there's probably quite a few of our guys watching Agon when he steps into the cage for BP. I would also give hugh kudo's to
    Dave M for helping to explain with his coaching skills what our boys are watching Agon do as his "demonstrator" lol.......either or guys, it's all good. praise be to the baseball gods above that our team continues to hit the snot outta the ball...

    miller was lucky last night by cracky wasn't he?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    fivekatz I definitely wanted Manny gone at that point... just to be clear.

    Ortiz essentially started to fall apart within days of the trade.... partly because Manny was his friend but I believe it was more of Ortiz thinking "where's my protection?" That really undermined him for more than a year... while many thought it was a physical decline it is apparent now it was ALL mental.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    In Response to Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters? : Bill James is the man! Give him time, he will figure it out!
    Posted by RedSoxKimmi[/QUOTE] yeah, the guy who did all the work while the "genius" takes all the credit..Tongue outLaughing
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    In Response to Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters? : yeah, the guy who did all the work while the "genius" takes all the credit..
    Posted by jete02fan[/QUOTE]

    LOL Jetes.  The 'genius' was smart enough to know how to use all of that Bill James mumbo jumbo to his advantage.  If you were a card carrying member, you would know that.   Wink
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    In Response to Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?:
    [QUOTE]fivekatz I definitely wanted Manny gone at that point... just to be clear. Ortiz essentially started to fall apart within days of the trade.... partly because Manny was his friend but I believe it was more of Ortiz thinking "where's my protection?" That really undermined him for more than a year... while many thought it was a physical decline it is apparent now it was ALL mental.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE] As far as all mental goes, I am not sure that is how I would frame it. The protection factor was valid. How often did Ortiz get intentionally walked to get to Manny Ramirez? Pitchers worked David more aggressively with Manny behind him than they did with Youk, JBay or  behind him.

    And Ortiz feeling the need to carry more of the load in the middle expanded his KZone, got into bad habits that became hard to break.  If that qualifies as mental, than it was partially mental. But its roots were in his approach at the plate, he had expanded his zone, swung at more pitcher's pitches and tried to  pull the outside stuff.

    But IMO pitchers worked Ortiz differently when Manny left. Given where he hits now, the current circumstances are not a return to protection, so all hats off to Papi for making the adjustments. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    Ortiz's improvement isn't because AGon, unless AGon is his new source of, uh, supplements.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from niz-58. Show niz-58's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    In Response to Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?:
    [QUOTE]Ortiz's improvement isn't because AGon, unless AGon is his new source of, uh, supplements.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    So original...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

    Ortiz for sure, but probably everyone just from Gonzo's presence and approach and level of skill -- one becomes a little better at anything when the models one studies or tries to emulate operate on a really high level . . .
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from WE5NUTS. Show WE5NUTS's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

     I think the main AGon factor is with Papi. I will make a list of Red Sox players (other than AGon) overperforming:
     Ells
     Papi
     Salty?
     Reddick
     
     Ells is entering his prime so the breakout year should be expected, Salty has always had the potential but couldn't stand the pressure, and while not even the most ignorant Reddick fan could say that he will keep hitting .400, I think that he does, indeed, have the talent to be an MLB player.
     Papi? He should be declining. I doubt that he is sneaking the juice right under Selig's nose (COUGHDIRTYWATERLOVERCOUGH) so it must be someone helping his approach. Papi always had a tendency to pull the ball, so teams would usually put the shift on him. However, two factors (him hitting the ball so well that the shift has no effect and occasionally lining it the other way) would prevent teams from doing it 24/7. However, once Manny got shipped to LA, Papi started pulling the ball 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the time, so teams always put the shift on him. Also, a wrist injury hindered his ability to hit, so his numbers were down across the board.
     So it's pretty obvious that Manny was key to his sucess. Not only did he keep the "use the whole field" idea in his head, but Manny offered the best protection in the game. Papi, despite all the walks, has a huge swing and strikes out an lot. Normally, pitchers had to pitch to Papi because one of baseball's best bats was lurking behind him, so he got pitches to hit and capitalized on them. Now, with only Youk, JBay, and ocassionally Lowell as protection, pitchers would work the corners and he would swing and miss.
     This is where AGon comes in. Agon, despite being one of the game's best first basemen, had virtually nothing to show for it, as he worked with a weak lineup, a huge park, and in a league where Albert Pujols practices his craft. However, the only tool Gonzo doesn't have is speed, as he can hit for average (has an average of about .350) can hit for power (on pace for 33 homers) can field well (has yet to make an error this year and has lots of range) apparently has a cannon for an arm (assists don't measure arm strength for a first baseman, but I've heard that there is a lot of chatter about his arm) is durable (has played at least 160 games each fo the last three years and is on pace for about 161 this year) and is a clubhouse leader. However, when AGon came over to Boston, there was chatter of an MVP season. He was moving from a pitcher's park to a park tailored for his swing, from a weak lineup to the best lineup in recent memory, and from a place where sports are about as popular as homework during summer vacation to a city that feeds off of sports. Once he started hitting, however, people corrected one mistake: he doesn't have the perfect swing for Fenway, he has the perfect swing, period. He even has a better swing than Manny, who was often praised for having the smoothest swing around. And considering that AGon and Papi seem to be even closer friends than Papi was with Manny, it wouldn't surprise me if Gonzo said "Hey, David, I was just thinking: teams put the shift on you a lot, so maybe you should try and sllice it down the line and make them think twice about leaving the third base line open," and Papi said "Thanks, Adrian, I try and see if it works," one time. I went to the game yesterday, and how Papi sliced a double down th line right where Reynolds should have been is the definition of beating them at their own game.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

     Maybe Gonzalez could spend a few minutes with JD Drew.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from WE5NUTS. Show WE5NUTS's posts

    Re: How Much Is Gonzalez Helping the Other Sox Hitters?

     I agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
    eeeeeeeeeee
     
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