hypothetical off season trade opportunity

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    Hope they can work it out. Choo strikeouts a real lot for lead-off batter. 150 times last year, this year already 125 times.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    I dont think Ells gets 18-20M. I think its more like 14-17M per and 5-6 years. If I were the GM and wanted to sign Ells, I like the idea now of a good base pay, say 14M, and the opportunity to get 16 or 17. One of them would be HR, one would be games played, and maybe SB. You offer a 6th year as a vesting option at 16M. if he gets it, it probably means hes been healthy and has earned the 6th year.

    Of course Im no GM, but IMHO this would be a decent outline and starting point if I were to make a serious push for Ellsbury.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    This thread is fun and funny at the same time. The different scenarios all are fun to talk about. However IMHO it is funny as reality has showed us the RS value their kids and expect many to succeed. Then you als have the fact that they also see more value in "2nd" tier type players (Carp, Victorino,Gomes, etc...).

    So I see absolutely no trade for Stanton or any other "TOP" player.

    LOVE my  Red Sox, Bs, Cs, Pats and enjoy the ride every year. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:

     

    Middlebrook, Workman, Britton and Brentz are all untouchable.  They are too good to trade them.  Bradley can be include in the deal only if Ellsbury resign with the team.

    IF Ellsbury goes, then Bradley stays.  IF Ellsbury resigns with Boston, I would just part away Bradley, Ranaudo, and Webster.  

    Heck no way that Boston going to give up four or five plus players just for Stanton.  

     



    Brentz? Untouchable?

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hope they can work it out. Choo strikeouts a real lot for lead-off batter. 150 times last year, this year already 125 times.

     

    My God man! The guy has like a .420 OBP this year, and you fret over his K rate?

    I'd take a .400 obp and 250 Ks from my leadoff hitter over a .350 OBP and 80 Ks.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    I dont think Ells gets 18-20M. I think its more like 14-17M per and 5-6 years. If I were the GM and wanted to sign Ells, I like the idea now of a good base pay, say 14M, and the opportunity to get 16 or 17. One of them would be HR, one would be games played, and maybe SB. You offer a 6th year as a vesting option at 16M. if he gets it, it probably means hes been healthy and has earned the 6th year.

    Of course Im no GM, but IMHO this would be a decent outline and starting point if I were to make a serious push for Ellsbury.

     



    The very smart Braves paid BJ Upton over $75M/5 and lost a draft pick doing so.

     

    I doubt Jacoby makes anything less than $80M/5 or $88M/6.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    I can see a scenario where we give up several top young prospects, then Stanton comes in and lays an egg in Boston. And the same people that wanted him now speculate on how we can get rid of him. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    I can see a scenario where we give up several top young prospects, then Stanton comes in and lays an egg in Boston. And the same people that wanted him now speculate on how we can get rid of him. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    A very real scenario.

    No prospect or established player is a 100% sure thing, but going young and large is a noble endeavor. I wouldn't give up the world for this kid, but close to it, yes.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    Fine player, a bit one-dimensional, 123 games or less in the past two seasons.  Plays RF, and I'd just as soon have Vic out there.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

     

    Why would the Marlins trade him, now?

    Also, his OPS has dropped for 2013, as pitchers get a better book on him. 

    No reason to look at Stanton until he gets near 5 years of service time and the book on his career averages is larger.

     

     



    They made a mistake not trading him in the off-season.  Now they lost a lot of leverage by losing a free year, and another injury hurts his value.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    Well, put it this way, BC needs to start thinking about how he is going to replace Ortiz's Power in the line up as Ortiz can not do this forever.

    If we keep Ellsbury, then perhaps JBJ becomes expendable along with a top pitching prospect. 

    Of course, this is only one option but BC needs to plan ahead and not get caught with his pants down like Mr Ca$hman....

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    An area where we need to improve is the foreign free agent market. A guy like Abreu is worth pursuing. These things  involve a risk with the money, but you get to keep your prospects. There is a lot of talent out there. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    An area where we need to improve is the foreign free agent market. A guy like Abreu is worth pursuing. These things  involve a risk with the money, but you get to keep your prospects. There is a lot of talent out there. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    We have gotten many international FAs over the years. Here'a look at the memorable ones:

    '82 Quinones

    '84 Quintana

    '93 R Betancourt

    '96 F Francisco

    '97 S. Kim

    '98 Jorge de la Rosa

    '00 Hanley Ramirez

    '01 Anibal Sanchez

    '04 Doubront

    '05 Y Navarro

    '06 Okajima, Dice-K

    '08 Tazawa, Keury de la Cruz

    '09 Iglesias, Bogaerts, Vinicio. M Alcantara

    '10 Linares

    '11 M Margot, Tzu-Wei Lin

    '12 We signed 24 players, including Jose Almonte, Javier Guerra, Wendell Rijo, and the two Basabes.

    '13 We have signed 4 guys so far: Rafael Devers, Emmanuel DeJesus, Jhonathan Diaz, and Yoan Aybar. If we sign Abreu, I'd say we've done better than the norm on Int'l FA signings over recent years.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    An area where we need to improve is the foreign free agent market. A guy like Abreu is worth pursuing. These things  involve a risk with the money, but you get to keep your prospects. There is a lot of talent out there. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     



    We have gotten many international FAs over the years. Here'a look at the memorable ones:

     

    '82 Quinones

    '84 Quintana

    '93 R Betancourt

    '96 F Francisco

    '97 S. Kim

    '98 Jorge de la Rosa

    '00 Hanley Ramirez

    '01 Anibal Sanchez

    '04 Doubront

    '05 Y Navarro

    '06 Okajima, Dice-K

    '08 Tazawa, Keury de la Cruz

    '09 Iglesias, Bogaerts, Vinicio. M Alcantara

    '10 Linares

    '11 M Margot, Tzu-Wei Lin

    '12 We signed 24 players, including Jose Almonte, Javier Guerra, Wendell Rijo, and the two Basabes.

    '13 We have signed 4 guys so far: Rafael Devers, Emmanuel DeJesus, Jhonathan Diaz, and Yoan Aybar. If we sign Abreu, I'd say we've done better than the norm on Int'l FA signings over recent years.



    i'd rather just sign napoli....

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

     

    Well, put it this way, BC needs to start thinking about how he is going to replace Ortiz's Power in the line up as Ortiz can not do this forever.

    If we keep Ellsbury, then perhaps JBJ becomes expendable along with a top pitching prospect. 

    Of course, this is only one option but BC needs to plan ahead and not get caught with his pants down like Mr Ca$hman....

     



    I really think we should go all out to get a big middle order RH'd hitter this winter. For once, we don't need a SP.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    An area where we need to improve is the foreign free agent market. A guy like Abreu is worth pursuing. These things  involve a risk with the money, but you get to keep your prospects. There is a lot of talent out there. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     



    We have gotten many international FAs over the years. Here'a look at the memorable ones:

     

    '82 Quinones

    '84 Quintana

    '93 R Betancourt

    '96 F Francisco

    '97 S. Kim

    '98 Jorge de la Rosa

    '00 Hanley Ramirez

    '01 Anibal Sanchez

    '04 Doubront

    '05 Y Navarro

    '06 Okajima, Dice-K

    '08 Tazawa, Keury de la Cruz

    '09 Iglesias, Bogaerts, Vinicio. M Alcantara

    '10 Linares

    '11 M Margot, Tzu-Wei Lin

    '12 We signed 24 players, including Jose Almonte, Javier Guerra, Wendell Rijo, and the two Basabes.

    '13 We have signed 4 guys so far: Rafael Devers, Emmanuel DeJesus, Jhonathan Diaz, and Yoan Aybar. If we sign Abreu, I'd say we've done better than the norm on Int'l FA signings over recent years.



    I don't know if that is better than the norm , but it looks like we have traded away most of the good ones. That is my point. Why trade top prospects if you don't have to?  I would rather spend the money on a guy like Abreu than give up a Bogaerts for a guy like Stanton. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    Why would the Marlins trade him, now?

    Also, his OPS has dropped for 2013, as pitchers get a better book on him. 

    No reason to look at Stanton until he gets near 5 years of service time and the book on his career averages is larger.

     




    1. The Marlins might consier moving him to avoid paying a substantial (for them) raise in arbitration.  Ceratinly they will field offers, but there is no rush for them.

     

    2.  His OPS dropped because he had injuries and is protected in the lineup by Logan Morrison, which is not much.  His BB% went from 9.4% in 2012 to 14.7% in 2013, and that was not because he suddenly got better plate discipline.

     

    3. Getting him at 5 years would potentially minimize his stay.  Certainly it would if the Sox offered the type of extension you always recommend.  Should the Sox also wait a few years and see how Bradley's career averages pan out?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    I don't know if that is better than the norm , but it looks like we have traded away most of the good ones. That is my point. Why trade top prospects if you don't have to?  I would rather spend the money on a guy like Abreu than give up a Bogaerts for a guy like Stanton.

    1) We've also traded a ton of prospect who never made it anywhere.

    2) Stanton is much more of a "sure bet" than Abreu, but I get your point and don't disagree.

    3) I would not give up Bogaerts alone for Stanton, since he has a few more years of control than Stanton.

     

    We need a force in the middle of our line-up. I don't see many that are avaiilable, and the ones that are will cost a lot.

    Here is a list of the top slugging percent guys since 2012 (over 500 PAs and .500 SLG):

    Miggy, Papi, C Davis, R Braun and Trout.

    #6 is Stanton at .555 (..363 OBP)

    then, Encarnacion, C Gonzalez, B Moss, A Beltre, McCutchen, Cano, Votto and Tulo

    #15 is Cuddyer at .522 (.378 OBP)

    then, Posey, Goldschmidt, Longoria, Bautista, A Hill, Rosario

    #22 is A Ramirez at .508 (.360 OBP) & #23 is Corey Hart at .507 (.334)

    then, A Jones, Hamilton, Ludwick, Wright, HanRam, C Beltran and Jay Bruce.

     

    I like the idea of giving our kids a shot and adding a guy like Abreu to the mix, but I don't see signing Pence or Choo and Napoli as answers to that hole in the line-up.

    I'm not saying we can't win without getting a big bopper, but our odds would improve significantly if we did.

    Sox4ever

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

     

     

    An area where we need to improve is the foreign free agent market. A guy like Abreu is worth pursuing. These things  involve a risk with the money, but you get to keep your prospects. There is a lot of talent out there. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     

     



    We have gotten many international FAs over the years. Here'a look at the memorable ones:

     

     

    '82 Quinones

    '84 Quintana

    '93 R Betancourt

    '96 F Francisco

    '97 S. Kim

    '98 Jorge de la Rosa

    '00 Hanley Ramirez

    '01 Anibal Sanchez

    '04 Doubront

    '05 Y Navarro

    '06 Okajima, Dice-K

    '08 Tazawa, Keury de la Cruz

    '09 Iglesias, Bogaerts, Vinicio. M Alcantara

    '10 Linares

    '11 M Margot, Tzu-Wei Lin

    '12 We signed 24 players, including Jose Almonte, Javier Guerra, Wendell Rijo, and the two Basabes.

    '13 We have signed 4 guys so far: Rafael Devers, Emmanuel DeJesus, Jhonathan Diaz, and Yoan Aybar. If we sign Abreu, I'd say we've done better than the norm on Int'l FA signings over recent years.

     



    I don't know if that is better than the norm , but it looks like we have traded away most of the good ones. That is my point. Why trade top prospects if you don't have to?  I would rather spend the money on a guy like Abreu than give up a Bogaerts for a guy like Stanton. 

     


    I thought your point was we needed to improve our foreign free agent market signings.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    I don't know if that is better than the norm , but it looks like we have traded away most of the good ones. That is my point. Why trade top prospects if you don't have to?  I would rather spend the money on a guy like Abreu than give up a Bogaerts for a guy like Stanton. 

    Nobody comes for free.  Signing Abreu is a good move only if he is a good player, otherwise, it might be $40M we can't spend elsewhere.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    We need a force in the middle of our line-up. I don't see many that are avaiilable, and the ones that are will cost a lot.

    I'm not convinced that the best-scoring team in BB needs a force in the middle of our lineup.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dustcover. Show dustcover's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    All thoughtful ideas.  And I concur with most, particularly not giving up Bogaerts.  But if Ells re-signs, then I see Bradley Jr. as expendable with perhaps another two prospects.

    And I too am also intrigued by Jose Abreu.

    But can you just imagine the opening day lineup 2014:

    Ells CF

    Victorino  RF

    Pedroia  2B

    Ortiz  DH

    Stanton  LF (or perhaps Abreu)

    Nava  1B

    Salty  C

    Middlebrooks  3B

    Bogaerts  SS

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    I don't know if that is better than the norm , but it looks like we have traded away most of the good ones. That is my point. Why trade top prospects if you don't have to?  I would rather spend the money on a guy like Abreu than give up a Bogaerts for a guy like Stanton. 

    Nobody comes for free.  Signing Abreu is a good move only if he is a good player, otherwise, it might be $40M we can't spend elsewhere.

     




    Obviously. That is the whole thing. Is he a good hitter ? A lot of people think that he is. That is where player evaluation comes in. It is generally accepted that Cuban baseball is a pretty high level.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    An area where we need to improve is the foreign free agent market. A guy like Abreu is worth pursuing. These things  involve a risk with the money, but you get to keep your prospects. There is a lot of talent out there. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     

     

     



    We have gotten many international FAs over the years. Here'a look at the memorable ones:

     

     

     

    '82 Quinones

    '84 Quintana

    '93 R Betancourt

    '96 F Francisco

    '97 S. Kim

    '98 Jorge de la Rosa

    '00 Hanley Ramirez

    '01 Anibal Sanchez

    '04 Doubront

    '05 Y Navarro

    '06 Okajima, Dice-K

    '08 Tazawa, Keury de la Cruz

    '09 Iglesias, Bogaerts, Vinicio. M Alcantara

    '10 Linares

    '11 M Margot, Tzu-Wei Lin

    '12 We signed 24 players, including Jose Almonte, Javier Guerra, Wendell Rijo, and the two Basabes.

    '13 We have signed 4 guys so far: Rafael Devers, Emmanuel DeJesus, Jhonathan Diaz, and Yoan Aybar. If we sign Abreu, I'd say we've done better than the norm on Int'l FA signings over recent years.

     

     



    I don't know if that is better than the norm , but it looks like we have traded away most of the good ones. That is my point. Why trade top prospects if you don't have to?  I would rather spend the money on a guy like Abreu than give up a Bogaerts for a guy like Stanton. 

     

     

     

     


    I thought your point was we needed to improve our foreign free agent market signings.




    I thought my point was that there was some major talent available on that market that would not require us to surrender any prospects .

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: hypothetical off season trade opportunity

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    We need a force in the middle of our line-up. I don't see many that are avaiilable, and the ones that are will cost a lot.

    I'm not convinced that the best-scoring team in BB needs a force in the middle of our lineup.

     



    Joe, I get your point, but every GM looks to improve his team over every winter, even after a great year. We don't have any glaring weaknesses to speak of, but if you had to pinpoint a need, I'd have to say getting a nice #5 hitter (or #4 if we move Papi to the 3 slot) is near the top of the list. Since we have a few slots opned by departing FAs, I think Ben will look hard at trying to find a big bopper to improve our line-up going into 2014, or to at least cancel out the losses we may realize by Ellsbury's departure from the leadoff slot..

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share