I am old school and want to thank the Capt!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I am old school and want to thank the Capt!

    Signing glorified platoon players to over $20M a year is for the birds.

    Just because carl makes $20M more than DMac, that means he should and must play even with an OPS over 100 points lower? 

    It's paradigms like these that keep us losing.
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from xcaliber. Show xcaliber's posts

    Re: I am old school and want to thank the Capt!

    Thanks guys for blowing this simple "Thanks for your hard work and dedication" thread to a stat bouncing thread on platooning.....
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I am old school and want to thank the Capt!

    You are right...back to the subject at hand....


    Despite what silly clowns think VTek gave his heart and soul right to the end. Just because an aging player no longer performs to his previous level, those that started at a very high level can still contribute at that lower level.

    We have softy saying he "should have retired after 2007" after posting these numbers at age 35:
    (He would turn 36 in April of 2009)

    All this fall, softy has been begging Ben to sign Ramon Hernandez after this:
    (Ramon turns 36 in May, 2012)


    He was a major contributor in both of our rings, and a solid hitting and fielding catcher for 9 seasons. His offense dropped after 2007, and his arm as well, but sadly the clowns think that is all there is to being a good catcher.

    In 2008, VTeK slumped to a .672 OPS. Looks bad, I know, but it was still the 17th best among all MLB catchers with over 400 PAs. (22nd out of the top 30 catchers by PAs--300+)

    In 2009, VTek improved a little to .703: good enough to place 18th out of the top 30 catchers by PAs (300+). He bacame the back-up after the VMart trade.

    In 2010, VTek improved again to .766 in limited action (due in part to an injury). .766 would have placed him 11th in the top 30 catchers of 2010.

    In 2011, VTek caught more innings than all but 2 back-up catchers in MLB. His OPS was a respectable .723 (for a MLB starting catcher), and among all MLB catchers with 250+ PAs, he placed 17th.

    Posters who criticized his poor offense should have looked at the context of MLB catching hitting these days. On top of that, they failed to recognize that VTek was hitting about as well as half the MLB starting catchers since 2008, but as a BACK-UP CATCHER. I repeat... he was a back-up catcher hitting as well as about half the MLB catchers since 2008!

    Now, much has been made of his weak arm. In his prime, VTek had CS rates of about 27-28%. He dropped down to about 23-24% in 2004, but we still won 2 rings afterwards. After 2007, he dropped to 22, 13, 21, 14%. Those numbers are horrible, but maybe not quite as bad as they appear. Our management philosophy stopped caring about holding runners, and for the amount of runners that actually tried to steal bases off VTek since 2008, what was the real issue?
    271 SBs
     53 CS
    Let's say VTek had a 32% CS rate those 4 years; we're talking about about 53 less SBs over 4 years-- or 13 less SBs per season.  Significant, yes, but not enough to write off his whole defensive portfolio. VTek had 12 PBs in those 4 years (3 per year).

    VTek used his vast experience and knowledge to keep us wiining. He probably studied hitters and his own staff more than any other MLB catcher. He got the most out of almost every pitcher he caught, year after year after year. Many might think it was a fluke, but the trend was too long-standing to be luck. I won't get into the individual breakdowns year by year, but harness provided ample evidence to show that a wide disparity existed between VTek and our other catcher each of the last few years and back even farther.

    Think about this: as bad as VTek hit and threw in 2011, the Sox still went 42-22 (66%) in the games he caught more than 5 innings. With other catchers we went 48-50 (49%). Even if you take away Beckett's games we still went 22-12 (65%)

    with VTek: 20-9  (69%)
    w/others: 69-64 (52%)

    with Vtek: 62-45 (58%)
    w/others: 33-22 (60%)

    with Vtek: 73-47 (61%)
    w/others: 22-20  (52%)

    4 Year total:
    with VTek: 197-123 (62%)
    w/others: 172-156 (52%)

    For those who think these record are due to Vtek catching the better starters than his back-up, it's not true. VTek actually caught a high percent of our lower level pitchers (except for Wake). If you look at how each individual pitcher did with VTek vs the other catcher, you'll see that in over 60-70% of pitchers with significant IP with 2 or more catchers, VTek got better results, year after year after year. (This is the correct way to use CERA and CERA related numbers.)

    VTek might not have been the vocal leader many hoped for, but he led by example. He came prepared. He played hurt. He produced. He produced to the end. We won. 

    He had some big hits in his career, and had more than his share of HRs & RBIs in 2011...
    RBIs per PA:
    AGon   .16
    Papi     .16
    Youk    .15
    Salty    .15
    VTek    .14
    Ellsb    .14
    Scut    .14
    Pedey .12
    Lowrie .11
    Redd    .10
    Craw    .10
    Drew    .08

    HRs per PA
    Papi   .048
    VTek  .044
    Ells    .044
    Salty .041
    AGon .038
    Youk  .033
    Ped    .029

    I was happy with VTek to the end. He gave it his all. He helped us win. I will always remember him as a winner. We all should. 

    It's easy, in hindsight, to look back and say so-and-so should have retired the year before he had an awful year. VTek never had an "awful year". Even with depressed numbers of late, he still compared very well with other back-up catchers. That's what should count.

    We should all be thankful for a long and great career from Jason Varitek. He brought out the best in his teammates, and the long list of accolades from former and current pitchers is not fluff and hollow platitudes. 

    Jason, we will miss you !!!
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: I am old school and want to thank the Capt!

    You keep saying you "stated" this and that back 1-2 years ago

    I stated it 1-2 years ago, but not on this board.

    Folks, take a look at that campaign of drivel to defend 10 million for Varitek and zero playoff wins, in his late 30's.

    Moonslob, it is drones like you that have ruined this once great Nation. Varitek has been washed up for years, and he is most certainly done with the Red Sox. He needs to pay back the 10 million for being captain of a frathouse for 3 years. 

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: I am old school and want to thank the Capt!

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I am old school and want to thank the Capt!

    Mr. Hanky, you are the biggest liar south of DC.

    I came out very hard against the Vtek signing for $5M before the 2009 season. You clearly have lost your mind. 

    Do people really think that players would come forward after the collapse and say, "Jason got in my mug a few times and told me to smarten up, get in shape, and try harder!"

    Is Jason the type of guy that would come forward and say, "I got in Beckett's mug 4 times during the season, but he wouldn't listen to me!" Would that be what Mr. Hanky, Geo and others on this thread would expect and want from their team leader? To out a fellow player to the media? Yeah, that's true leadership qualifications.

    If something did happen involving VTek being proactive or aggressive as a captain, there's a good chance we would not have heard about it from anyone. Maybe even Tito wouldn't have known he did it.

    There is no evidence to prove that VTek did or did not actively try anything, and then on top of that, there's no evidence that if he had done it, it would have worked or made a significant difference.

    The evidence presented is totally speculative: Beckett and Lester did poorly in September, so it must be because they were not determined enough to win. It's because VTek didn't force them to the gym all year to lose weight and build stamina.

    What captain does that? Ever.

    Guys, we had Miller (12 starts) , Weiland (5 starts), Wakefield (23 starts), Lackey (28 starts pitching injured), and Bedard (8 starts) and came 1 game away from making the playoffs. If we had spread the losses out all year, would anyone have blamed VTek for us not making the playoffs? 

    The nature of the "collapse" begged for assigning blame to many who live by that creed. 

    We lost our starting RF'er for most of the year, our star 3Bman for a crucial stretch and then watched him hit at a .525 OPS when he returned in Septemeber. Should VTek have yelled at Youk? 

    We lost Scutaro and Lowrie for a stretch. 

    We lost Wheeler for a while and he never fully recovered. 

    We pretty much lost Jenks all year. 

    We had Rich Hill pitch 9 scoreless innings, then miss the rest of the year. 

    In hinsight, the most amazing fact of the season was not really the collapse, it was more the hot streak we had for 4 months with all these guys missing. We actually overperformed for 4 months and underperformed for 2. Where's the credit given to VTek for those 4 months? Was any credit given to VTek for helping turn the team around in late April and May?


    Did anyone even remember the specifics of April? 

    I'm not bashing Salty, but do you guys remember what happened? 

    We lost the first 8 out of 9 games started by Salty (and 9 out of 11 up to April 15th).

    The team went 1-2 with VTek in that same stretch, but then won 5 straight from April 16-20th. Did anyone give credit to VTek then? 
    No, they only give negative points.  

    We then went 6-3 in Salty starts after the poor start up to April 15th, but then lost 3 straight in Salty starts (May 4-6). After May 6th, the team went 8-1 under VTek. No kudos. In fact many poster scoffed at the idea that a catcher has that much influence over wins and losses or a pitcher's performance, yet when we lose, VTek is suddenly this massive negative influential character on the team? 

    I don't buy it. You shouldn't either.

    We went 42-22 when VTek caught most of the game. We had a losing record when he didn't. (We were 22-12 in non-Beckett games caught by VTek). In case you are thinking VTek caught all the better pitchers, think again. 
    PAs w  VTek  Salty (ERA w /VTek vs w/Salty)
    Beckett 715    52      (2.62 to 7.36)
    Lester  165   610      (2.48 to 3.77)
    Miller   154   156     (7.28 to 4.08)
    Lackey 152   591     (6.82 to 6.31)  Pretty close
    Dice-K  151    16      (3.82 to 31.50)
    Bedard  67    84      (3.38 to 3.86) Pretty close
    Wake    53   624      (4.15 to 5.21)
    Weiland 22     86    (13.50 to 7.64)
    Buch      88   265     (3.38 to 3.52) Pretty close

    Relievers (by IP) VTek to Salty
    Aceves   2,34  (42.1) to 2.82 (67.0)
    Bard       1.44  (31.1) to 4.54 (39.2) You think VTek was "Josh's binky"? 
    Paps       2.45  (25.2) to 2.75 (36.0) Pretty close
    Albers     4.00 (36.0) to 5.53 (27.2)
    Wheeler  5.40 (15.0) to 4.19 (34.1)
    Morales   3.14 (14.1) to 4.24 (17.0)
    Atchison  5.14 (7.0)  to  2.70 (23.1)

    Salty caught more innings than Vtek by a 3:2 ratio. The pitchers highlighted in blue were caught at a percentage by VTek or more than 40%. The ones in black had Salty catch them at more than 60% of the time.

    11 out of our top 16 pitchers by IP in 2011 did better with VTek than Salty. 4 were pretty close, so one could say VTek's record was 8-4-4(ties).  

    Pitchers responded to something VTek was doing, but you won't call that leadership, ohhh NOoooooo! or having a positive influence.... OHhhhh NOoooo!

     "Lead by example".  Doesn't exist, I guess.

    Hard evidence means nothing to some of you. 

    Conjecture, innuendos, and media witch hunts are the gospel.  

    VTek was not a superstar or even a star his last 4 years, but he was a very very good back-up catcher. The evidence shows this. Your evidence is a smokescreen for venting your frustration and, for some, your hatred towards VTek.

    Blaming VTek tidies things up nicely for you. You were right all along, Our team was great despite the injuries, but this damn VTek guy sunk the win-the-ring ship. Boot the bum outta here, and leave your last words for this Sox hero words of spite, hatred and disgust. Real class, boys, real class. You give Sox fans a bad name.