I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

     Sign him first day of free agency....n there,s your ACE.....I ,M POUNDING THE TABLE on this one

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 56redsox. Show 56redsox's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    In response to makonikyman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Sign him first day of free agency....n there,s your ACE.....I ,M POUNDING THE TABLE on this one

    [/QUOTE]


    Wasnt This Guy An Angel....

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    In response to makonikyman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Sign him first day of free agency....n there,s your ACE.....I ,M POUNDING THE TABLE on this one

    [/QUOTE]


    All indications are that the Dodgers and the Angels are going to get into a bidding war for Greinke which will easily reach 100 plus million this winter.  The Sox aren't going to go there for a guy who is absolutely unhittable at times, yet isn't consistent enough to consider giving that kind of money to, especially with the recent long term, high priced free agent contracts not working out for so many teams. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    Sure, the social anxiety was a concern for some. Myself included. But the main thing most, myself included, were worried about was the length of the deal and the heap of $$$ he could expect to get from the winning bidder. Not sure the sox need to play that game at this point. Nobody Ive heard of, myself included, ever said he wasnt a good pitcher.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    Barnes, Webster, De La Rosa, Owens, Johnson, Ranaudo, Buttrey, Britton, Pinentel, Workman, Light, Carpenter, Montas, Callahan, Kukuk, Hernandez, Ramirez, Pena, Olmsted, Wright, etc...

    Its almost impossible to develop a starting pitcher and introduce a new one to the starting rotation every year, let alone a TOR one. You forgot Doubront, then zilch...They traded away Kelly who would have had his chance this year also. Tazawa also wouldve already had his chance if it werent for TJS. You'll see a lot of mid to bottom rotation guys more regularly than you will 1's and 2's...The Sox have some very good pitchers and a few with TOR  potential. Just like all prospect, we'll have to see if that translates to MLB...The next wave is upon us...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Barnes, Webster, De La Rosa, Owens, Johnson, Ranaudo, Buttrey, Britton, Pinentel, Workman, Light, Carpenter, Montas, Callahan, Kukuk, Hernandez, Ramirez, Pena, Olmsted, Wright, etc...

    Its almost impossible to develop a starting pitcher and introduce a new one to the starting rotation every year, let alone a TOR one. You forgot Doubront, then zilch...They traded away Kelly who would have had his chance this year also. Tazawa also wouldve already had his chance if it werent for TJS. You'll see a lot of mid to bottom rotation guys more regularly than you will 1's and 2's...The Sox have some very good pitchers and a few with TOR  potential. Just like all prospect, we'll have to see if that translates to MLB...The next wave is upon us...

    [/QUOTE]

    South...I can certainly understand concerns about signing Greinke, but we are in a very unique position right now. I cannot in my yrs of following this team remember having the dollars available, and the quality of prospects coming up through the system, which should afford us for yrs to come to keep our payroll down. Add to your list above one of the top coll arms in the 2013 draft with our 7th or 8 th pick and it,s unheard of quality and depth. We should be able to bring in 2 or 3 top pitching prospectsarms a yr for the Nxt 3 or 4 yrs...and I m not talking Al nipper here either. But for the Nxt 2 or 3 yrs we desperately need an ACE. Or co aces. Greinke will give us that. A rotation of Greinke, Buch, Lester, Doubront, and Lackey....with De La Rosa and Tazawa getting stretched out in AAA , Barnes, Webster and Ranaudo in AA, Owens, Johnson, and 2013 top pick inhigh A....and others, the future would seem bright. If we want to compete AT ALL Nxt yr, or the yr after we need a tor guy, and Greinke is the onguy one out there that we won't have to pay through a$& for in prospects AND money. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    I'm glad you can so easily discount Greinke's past psychological issues, despite the fact that star players without his history of anxiety problems have wilted under the pressure of Boston.

    But the fact is that if you take away one Cy Young caliber season, his career ERA is over 4. It's north of 3.80 over the past three seasons. So expecting him to walk in and be the ace everyone is clammoring for is probably a lot of wishful thinking...we already have a top of the rotation starter in Jon Lester who, despite a down year, is capable of being just as good or better.

    Good pitcher, yes. But let someone else give him a giant contract. I want no part of him at the years and dollars he'll probably be requiring, just as I wanted no part of Lackey and Crawford.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

     

     

     

    The way the A's and O's have been playing, the Angels will not make the playoffs (the Angels are two back with seven games to go).  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    Most people here are right that it is too ridiculous to try to sign Grienke due he is going to ask for one of the biggest contract of all free agency players except maybe Hamilton.

    Stay away from him. 

    If he can just take 4 years contract worth 10 millions dollars a year, then I would be fine with that.  But we all know he is going ask twice more than that.  Boston already have one bad contract, Lackey!!

    Either try to trade for a pitcher or try to hope that Tampa Bay doesnt pick up Shield's option contract.  But if he is a free agent....he may ask for a big fat contract since he is going to be a #2 ranked free agent pitcher!!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm glad you can so easily discount Greinke's past psychological issues, despite the fact that star players without his history of anxiety problems have wilted under the pressure of Boston.

    But the fact is that if you take away one Cy Young caliber season, his career ERA is over 4. It's north of 3.80 over the past three seasons. So expecting him to walk in and be the ace everyone is clammoring for is probably a lot of wishful thinking...we already have a top of the rotation starter in Jon Lester who, despite a down year, is capable of being just as good or better.

    Good pitcher, yes. But let someone else give him a giant contract. I want no part of him at the years and dollars he'll probably be requiring, just as I wanted no part of Lackey and Crawford.

    [/QUOTE]

    Zack Greinke since 2008  averages    14-9. 3.41 era. And a whip of 1.21 despite for 3 yrs playing on a K.C team that went a combined 207-279. His last 2 yrs, while playing on playoff caliber teams he is 31-11

    Lester over that same span averages 15-9. 3.66. 1.27

    Bucholtz is.  43-30.  3.83. 1.35.   Both Lester and Buch played on far better teams than Greinke did over that time

    But here is what people are missing. In order to trade for a tor starter, we would have to give up a combination of Barnes, JB Jr, Bogearts, and Doubront etc...lets say Seatle would give us King Felix for Bogaerts, JB jr, and Barnes. The rs would want to extend him for AT least 3 yrs after the 2 yrs left on his contract are up, at prob 22m per yr. Here,s my question to all of you. Would you take king Felix for 5 yrs at an avg of 18m per, or Greinke, Barnes, Bogaerts, and JB jr for 6 yrs for an avg of 24m per yr? 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Most people here are right that it is too ridiculous to try to sign Grienke due he is going to ask for one of the biggest contract of all free agency players except maybe Hamilton.

    Stay away from him. 

    If he can just take 4 years contract worth 10 millions dollars a year, then I would be fine with that.  But we all know he is going ask twice more than that.  Boston already have one bad contract, Lackey!!

    Either try to trade for a pitcher or try to hope that Tampa Bay doesnt pick up Shield's option contract.  But if he is a free agent....he may ask for a big fat contract since he is going to be a #2 ranked free agent pitcher!!

    [/QUOTE]

    For 4 yrs 10m per yr you get a career 500 pitcher that slots in the 4 spot. We ve got enough of those already. That would keep us as a 500 team no thanks

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

     

    For 4 yrs 10m per yr you get a career 500 pitcher that slots in the 4 spot. We ve got enough of those already. That would keep us as a 500 team no thanks

    [/QUOTE]

    First of all, in the last three years, almost top two to maybe three pitchers have asked for more than 15 to 20 millions dollars a year including some have went over 5 years such as Wilson, Lee, Buerhle, Lackey, Sabathia, Burnett, etc  But we all know that Grienke is going to ask for a contract like this 5 yrs/75 millions dollars to 5yrs/90 millons dollars due Grienke is more likely going to be the #1 ranked starting pitcher for this coming off season free agency.

    Then if teams doesnt pick up option on Peavy, Shield, etc, these guys will still ask for 4yrs/40 millions dollars or like that.  

    So what is the difference if Boston is lucky to sign Grienke just for 10 millions dollars a year and signing Peavy for the same amount?  Really I rather to have Grienke over Peavy who already have a history of injury.

    Same with Shield.   Shield and Grienke is the only two guys I am high on, but the rest, screw them.  Edwin Jackson is going to be a busted pitcher.  Same goes with Dice K, Daren Haren, etc.  

    Ben C. is not going to sign any risky contract to a risky player like Haren or Dice K.

    He ll go after hard on a very healthy pitcher.  If he is too costly, then Ben C. will go to plan B such as to make a trade.  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    Over the last 4 years Lester has a 65-32 W-L with an ERA of 3.33 and a WHIP around 1.235...All in the ALE...His history tells me that he just had a bad year and will rebound back to his norm.

    Greinke is good, theres no doubt. Thats not even in question here. Hes going to ask, and probably get, north of 6yrs and 100mm...I just dont trust paying that much to a pitcher who has never experienced Boston. He would come here with HUGE expectations and a HUGE contract to live up to. Can you say he can, without a doubt, handle that pressure and handle the media and fans if he doesnt do that well after  already dealing with social anxiety? Its a big chance for big $$ and big years...Personally, I dont think hes worth 20mm a year.

    Over the last 4 years prior to 2012, Greinke and Lesters numbers are very similar...I think it would be crazy to trade Lester...Like I said before, the return would have to blow me out of the water...

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm glad you can so easily discount Greinke's past psychological issues, despite the fact that star players without his history of anxiety problems have wilted under the pressure of Boston.

    But the fact is that if you take away one Cy Young caliber season, his career ERA is over 4. It's north of 3.80 over the past three seasons. So expecting him to walk in and be the ace everyone is clammoring for is probably a lot of wishful thinking...we already have a top of the rotation starter in Jon Lester who, despite a down year, is capable of being just as good or better.

    Good pitcher, yes. But let someone else give him a giant contract. I want no part of him at the years and dollars he'll probably be requiring, just as I wanted no part of Lackey and Crawford.

    [/QUOTE]


     despite the fact that star players without his history of anxiety problems have wilted under the pressure of Boston.

     

    flapjack I suppose the other side of that is

    those other guys most likely were never

    treated / advised how to / medicated to handle such things

    just guessing here but I'm thinking his problem was

    more about pitching in mlb or not

    rather than big or bigger crowds/pressure



    makonikyman makes 2 good points

    I favor over paying the FA vs a trade were I must give up big talent

    and it would be great to see him in a PO game

    not that how he doe's means everything



    wow spell check works now too

    [/QUOTE]

    And therein lies the problem. I don't want the Sox shelling out big bucks to Greinke because they "guess" he'll be fine in boston.

     

    Renteria comes to mind.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Renteria comes to mind.

    and what happened ?

    you got rid of him

    after being able to get rid of beckett

    I wouldn't worry to much about being able to unload him if needed

    there are few if any sure things in FA, trades or players in general

    got to take some risks






    I'm not saying he's an ace

    just saying I wouldn't make the anxiety issues a deal breaker

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, the sox got rid of renteria.

    They also paid his salary for atlleast two years if not more.

     

    There are risks and then there are dumb risks.

    The fact that he's not an ace, makes this a dumb risk.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Renteria comes to mind.

    and what happened ?

    you got rid of him

    after being able to get rid of beckett

    I wouldn't worry to much about being able to unload him if needed

    there are few if any sure things in FA, trades or players in general

    got to take some risks






    I'm not saying he's an ace

    just saying I wouldn't make the anxiety issues a deal breaker

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, the Sox got rid of Renteria.

    They also paid his salary for at least two years, if not more, to play for another team.

     No thanks.

     

    There are risks and then there are dumb risks.

    The fact that he's not an ace, makes this a dumb risk.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm glad you can so easily discount Greinke's past psychological issues, despite the fact that star players without his history of anxiety problems have wilted under the pressure of Boston.

    But the fact is that if you take away one Cy Young caliber season, his career ERA is over 4. It's north of 3.80 over the past three seasons. So expecting him to walk in and be the ace everyone is clammoring for is probably a lot of wishful thinking...we already have a top of the rotation starter in Jon Lester who, despite a down year, is capable of being just as good or better.

    Good pitcher, yes. But let someone else give him a giant contract. I want no part of him at the years and dollars he'll probably be requiring, just as I wanted no part of Lackey and Crawford.

    [/QUOTE]


     despite the fact that star players without his history of anxiety problems have wilted under the pressure of Boston.

     

    flapjack I suppose the other side of that is

    those other guys most likely were never

    treated / advised how to / medicated to handle such things

    just guessing here but I'm thinking his problem was

    more about pitching in mlb or not

    rather than big or bigger crowds/pressure



    makonikyman makes 2 good points

    I favor over paying the FA vs a trade were I must give up big talent

    and it would be great to see him in a PO game

    not that how he doe's means everything



    wow spell check works now too

    [/QUOTE]

    And therein lies the problem. I don't want the Sox shelling out big bucks to Greinke because they "guess" he'll be fine in boston.

     

    Renteria comes to mind.

    [/QUOTE]


    so Renteria didn,t work out. How about Pedro? When we got him from Mont there were TONS of questions about him. They didn,t think he could hold up because of his size. They weren,t sure there was enough of a dominican base here etc....we extended him after we made the trade for 5 yrs and at the time was one of the biggest contracts in baseball. Would you take that one back? How about Manny for 8 yrs? how d that work out? or Schilling....his teamates hated him and we gave him a nice extension to coome here. How d that work out? Agon?  same issues...small market player, not sure if he can handle Bost etc...most people on here wouldnt mind seeing him over on 1st base right now. If you want to compete, and hopefully win...you need STUDS. and Greinke  IS A STUD.Yes there are risks, just like everything in life. either that or we go sign a bunch of journyman and stay a sub 500 team for the next few yrs....

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    In response to makonikyman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm glad you can so easily discount Greinke's past psychological issues, despite the fact that star players without his history of anxiety problems have wilted under the pressure of Boston.

    But the fact is that if you take away one Cy Young caliber season, his career ERA is over 4. It's north of 3.80 over the past three seasons. So expecting him to walk in and be the ace everyone is clammoring for is probably a lot of wishful thinking...we already have a top of the rotation starter in Jon Lester who, despite a down year, is capable of being just as good or better.

    Good pitcher, yes. But let someone else give him a giant contract. I want no part of him at the years and dollars he'll probably be requiring, just as I wanted no part of Lackey and Crawford.

    [/QUOTE]


     despite the fact that star players without his history of anxiety problems have wilted under the pressure of Boston.

     

    flapjack I suppose the other side of that is

    those other guys most likely were never

    treated / advised how to / medicated to handle such things

    just guessing here but I'm thinking his problem was

    more about pitching in mlb or not

    rather than big or bigger crowds/pressure



    makonikyman makes 2 good points

    I favor over paying the FA vs a trade were I must give up big talent

    and it would be great to see him in a PO game

    not that how he doe's means everything



    wow spell check works now too

    [/QUOTE]

    And therein lies the problem. I don't want the Sox shelling out big bucks to Greinke because they "guess" he'll be fine in boston.

     

    Renteria comes to mind.

    [/QUOTE]


    so Renteria didn,t work out. How about Pedro? When we got him from Mont there were TONS of questions about him. They didn,t think he could hold up because of his size. They weren,t sure there was enough of a dominican base here etc....we extended him after we made the trade for 5 yrs and at the time was one of the biggest contracts in baseball. Would you take that one back? How about Manny for 8 yrs? how d that work out? or Schilling....his teamates hated him and we gave him a nice extension to coome here. How d that work out? Agon?  same issues...small market player, not sure if he can handle Bost etc...most people on here wouldnt mind seeing him over on 1st base right now. If you want to compete, and hopefully win...you need STUDS. and Greinke  IS A STUD.Yes there are risks, just like everything in life. either that or we go sign a bunch of journyman and stay a sub 500 team for the next few yrs....

    [/QUOTE]

    Give up the dream, Makonikyman.  It's not happening...

    1. There is no way the Red Sox, who have publicly said that they will avoid the long term high priced deals for players who haven't played here, are offering the 100 plus million it will take to sign Greinke.

    2. It's no secret that the Angels and Dodgers are both prepared to give him at least that much this winter.  The Sox would have to blow both of those teams out of the water (no shot) to make the player's union pressure him into taking the highest offer.

    3. Ben Cherington has said he puts a lot more stock into a player's "make-up" than Theo did.  Do you honestly believe his first big free agent signing is going to be for a pitcher at 100 plus million who takes anxiety meds and is admittedly uncomfortable around people?!?!?!

    4.  If you really read the interview with Greinke below, you will understand that this guy would NOT want to play in a place like Boston, NY or Philly.  As a matter of fact, after reading the interview, my guess is that he would rather retire first before signing with a Boston or New York.

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/116683129.html  -  Greinke interview from 2011

    I don't think he would fold like a tent in Boston at all, like Ed Whitson did in New York, but I don't think either the Sox or Greinke would have any interest whatsoever in each other, considering all of the circumstances.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    We as Red Sox fans have to know by now that certain type of players cannot play in Boston becase of the pressure associated with playing in that city.  Grienke is a very good pitcher but he has anxiety issues, takes meds for them and feels uncomfortable around people.  That is a recipe for disaster in Boston.  Besides, after our disastrous experience with high priced FA's like Gonzales and Crawford who couldn't hack Boston, we have to be real careful who we sign.  My memory is still very clear about Renteria, Crisp, Delcarmen, Penny, and so many others who cratered here.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: I soooo want the Angels to make the playoffs so You can ALL see how good Zack Greinke is...Anxiety my a%$....

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We as Red Sox fans have to know by now that certain type of players cannot play in Boston becase of the pressure associated with playing in that city.  Grienke is a very good pitcher but he has anxiety issues, takes meds for them and feels uncomfortable around people.  That is a recipe for disaster in Boston.  Besides, after our disastrous experience with high priced FA's like Gonzales and Crawford who couldn't hack Boston, we have to be real careful who we sign.  My memory is still very clear about Renteria, Crisp, Delcarmen, Penny, and so many others who cratered here.

    [/QUOTE]


    O h we do, DO WE. YOU HAVE no ideA how many past or present players have had issues with drugs, alcohol, depression or what have you. It s just that Zack Greinke,s issues are out in the open, because his parents have done that since high school, and that way he can deal with and confront them and not have to live in secrecy. The Red Sox have known things about players for years and have kept it away from knuckleheads like you who will pre judge somebody based on a percieved weakness.....dude, get a life, playing in Boston is no diff than any other city. You take the ball and do what you ve done since little league. GET HITTERS OUT. Which Zack Greinke is very, very good at

     
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