I still like Garza in our rotation

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    I still like Garza in our rotation

    I predict the Sox will be looking to land Garza before the deadline.  Possibly in a package including Doub and/or Middy.  I know some of you don't like Garza but I would love to have him over Demp or Doub.  Garza's career WHIP, SO to BB ratio and past success in the AL East speaks for itself.  Put him on a team that like ours that can hit and I have no doubt he could be our #2 or 3 come playoff time.

    Just a hunch but thats my prediction, or hope anyway.

    And the talks begin.

    http://www.truebluela.com/2013/7/5/4496150/matt-garza-trade-rumors-dodgers-cubs

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    He just returned from injury and has looked mediocre at best. We already have that and dont need to give up prospects to acquire more of it. If were going to get a pitcher, he needs to be a difference maker. Garza is NOT that.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    He just returned from injury and has looked mediocre at best. We already have that and dont need to give up prospects to acquire more of it. If were going to get a pitcher, he needs to be a difference maker. Garza is NOT that.

     




    Garza was very solid in his last outing and is better than 3 or 4 of our present starters.  Our current SP will never get it done all season.  We also need to beef up the bottom of our lineup.  What we don't need is another washed up, old NL pitcher like Dempster, or BB machine like Doub. 

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation


    No on Garza. Bad numbers, price too high, and Clubhouse Poison. Just when we were building a cohesive team , why bring in malcontent me-first types ?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    If you really want to contend you pay the price and go after Cliff Lee.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to jimedfred's comment:

     


    No on Garza. Bad numbers, price too high, and Clubhouse Poison. Just when we were building a cohesive team , why bring in malcontent me-first types ?

     




    Clubhouse poisen and price?  Wrong on both accounts, where do get your facts from? 

    We just gave a much older Dempster 2 years for much more and he's no different than Morales, Aceves, Doubront, Dice K, Lester, Bard, Miller etc.  They all have good stuff but lack control and consistency like Lackey before the surgery. 

    Garza has had good control, WHIP, SO to BB ratio and solid reputation in the AL East for years.  None of our present guys come close outside of Clay, probably not even him.   You won't find the consistency or numbers to prove otherwise.  The biggest problem for Garza has been a couple injuries and playing on teams with little run support.

    We need guys who can throw strikes and don't buckle under pressure in this division.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    I dont know about clubhouse poison, but the asking price will be too much for a 2 month rental, IMO. Garza is a good pitcher, but is he the difference maker that will take this team deep into the playoffs? And who would you take out of the rotation for him? Our bottom 3 have been pitching very good as of late and the Buch/Aceves starts have been solid as well. Lester is the only one whos been struggling for 1.5 months, but I think they stick with him and let him work through it.

    If you think Garza is the guy craze, I can respect that. I just dont think he is and respectfully disagree.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from youkillus. Show youkillus's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    Go get Oliver Perez from  Seattle. He flamed out in NY with an injury, but is back and better than ever. Left handed gas, 95-96, low WHIP and a K/BB rate 2.77. Just what we need out of the bullpen. Seattle needs help in the INF and at catcher, Lava? Drew? Let's talk.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to youkillus' comment:

    Go get Oliver Perez from  Seattle. He flamed out in NY with an injury, but is back and better than ever. Left handed gas, 95-96, low WHIP and a K/BB rate 2.77. Just what we need out of the bullpen. Seattle needs help in the INF and at catcher, Lava? Drew? Let's talk.



    Hey Youk,

    I'm not sure he's the guy we need to acquire, seems to me that we have plenty of lefties in the pen and or on the 40 man roster...I would agree that the backend of the pen is currently the area of concern. For what it's worth if they're going to make deal and trade away prospects seems to me they'd be best spent on the acquisition of a proven closer. I haven't been plugged in to the rumor mill. Papelbon's name has been floated and given his contract my guess is that the acquiring team could use that as leverage by assuming the entire sum owed. Which could lesson the value of the prospects needed in return. 

    From where I sit, we're not going anywhere if Lester doesn't straighten up and begin to give us quality innings. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to trouts' comment:

    If you really want to contend you pay the price and go after Cliff Lee.



    Commit 25 Million a year, for several years to a guy in his late 30's when we have 3-4 guys in our system who can be as good to better than him going forward?!?!?!?

    I'm sorry I know Lee is good, but for how much longer and at what cost? and even then that doesn't gurantee victory (just ask texas, and those teams were better) 

    I only make that trade if I get significant money coming our way, or they accept fringe prospects. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    I dont know about clubhouse poison, but the asking price will be too much for a 2 month rental, IMO. Garza is a good pitcher, but is he the difference maker that will take this team deep into the playoffs? And who would you take out of the rotation for him? Our bottom 3 have been pitching very good as of late and the Buch/Aceves starts have been solid as well. Lester is the only one whos been struggling for 1.5 months, but I think they stick with him and let him work through it.

    If you think Garza is the guy craze, I can respect that. I just dont think he is and respectfully disagree.

     



    Your opinion is always taken well southpaw.  I just think Garza has what just about all our starters lack.  Good control and the ability to pitch under PS pressure, nothing scares the guy and he was always well prepared mentally in a big game.  I hated the guy when we had to play against the Rays but would love to have him in the rotation.  We give up way too many BB's as unit and look like a bunch of 4's and 5's in every other outing.

    Garza's numbers speak for themselves, forget the record put him on a club with our offense and he will be our second best pitcher unless Lackey can continue to put in a solid outing.  Doubront, Aceves, Jon, Demp and Morales don't have the control needed right now to put in consistent efforts down the stretch.  I'm also not sure Garza would be a two month rental and we need to sign a younger starter moving forward.  Dempster was highy overpaid and the wrong choice.  At this point I wouldn't hesitate at all to throw Doub into the package.  People forget what Garza is capable of because we don't see him anymore but he has focus and is still under 30.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    I dont know about clubhouse poison, but the asking price will be too much for a 2 month rental, IMO. Garza is a good pitcher, but is he the difference maker that will take this team deep into the playoffs? And who would you take out of the rotation for him? Our bottom 3 have been pitching very good as of late and the Buch/Aceves starts have been solid as well. Lester is the only one whos been struggling for 1.5 months, but I think they stick with him and let him work through it.

    If you think Garza is the guy craze, I can respect that. I just dont think he is and respectfully disagree.

     



    Your opinion is always taken well southpaw.  I just think Garza has what just about all our starters lack.  Good control and the ability to pitch under PS pressure, nothing scares the guy and he was always well prepared mentally in a big game.  I hated the guy when we had to play against the Rays but would love to have him in the rotation.  We give up way too many BB's as unit and look like a bunch of 4's and 5's in every other outing.

    Garza's numbers speak for themselves, forget the record put him on a club with our offense and he will be our second best pitcher unless Lackey can continue to put in a solid outing.  Doubront, Aceves, Jon, Demp and Morales don't have the control needed right now to put in consistent efforts down the stretch.  I'm also not sure Garza would be a two month rental and we need to sign a younger starter moving forward.  Dempster was highy overpaid and the wrong choice.  At this point I wouldn't hesitate at all to throw Doub into the package.  People forget what Garza is capable of because we don't see him anymore but he has focus and is still under 30.



    hey craze,

    I too like what Garza brings to the table And would'nt have a problem if they acquired him. I wouldn't trade Doubront for his though. The kid is still learning to be a big league pitcher and has shown flashes of very good upside potential. I would trade a combination of top tier prospect not named Bogharts or Bradley...but would be ok if they used either Barnes or Ranuando as the main chip. As I stated in my reply to Youk above. The more pressing need is a proven closer, end of the day this team will go as far as Jon Lester and Buccholz takes them. Garza is a solid # 2 on a good team and a very good #3 on a playoff caliber squad. a savy veteren with a ton of moixy but not a staff leader. His resume speaks for itself, he's never been a guy that consistently shuts down the other team aka Verlander or Hernandez...so the cost of acquisition may well be more prohibitive given the expected return.  That's without factoring in the length of his contract vs the cost in prospects and moneys...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to youkillus' comment:

    Go get Oliver Perez from  Seattle. He flamed out in NY with an injury, but is back and better than ever. Left handed gas, 95-96, low WHIP and a K/BB rate 2.77. Just what we need out of the bullpen. Seattle needs help in the INF and at catcher, Lava? Drew? Let's talk.




    Seattle has no need for a rental SS or a catcher/DH/1b, thats how we got Carp. They will want a young controlable player where they have a need. C/1b/DH isnt one of them. Plus, I wouldnt think it would cost more than a B-C type prospect. Im not interested in him regardless.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    I dont know about clubhouse poison, but the asking price will be too much for a 2 month rental, IMO. Garza is a good pitcher, but is he the difference maker that will take this team deep into the playoffs? And who would you take out of the rotation for him? Our bottom 3 have been pitching very good as of late and the Buch/Aceves starts have been solid as well. Lester is the only one whos been struggling for 1.5 months, but I think they stick with him and let him work through it.

    If you think Garza is the guy craze, I can respect that. I just dont think he is and respectfully disagree.

     



    Your opinion is always taken well southpaw.  I just think Garza has what just about all our starters lack.  Good control and the ability to pitch under PS pressure, nothing scares the guy and he was always well prepared mentally in a big game.  I hated the guy when we had to play against the Rays but would love to have him in the rotation.  We give up way too many BB's as unit and look like a bunch of 4's and 5's in every other outing.

    Garza's numbers speak for themselves, forget the record put him on a club with our offense and he will be our second best pitcher unless Lackey can continue to put in a solid outing.  Doubront, Aceves, Jon, Demp and Morales don't have the control needed right now to put in consistent efforts down the stretch.  I'm also not sure Garza would be a two month rental and we need to sign a younger starter moving forward.  Dempster was highy overpaid and the wrong choice.  At this point I wouldn't hesitate at all to throw Doub into the package.  People forget what Garza is capable of because we don't see him anymore but he has focus and is still under 30.

     



    hey craze,

     

    I too like what Garza brings to the table And would'nt have a problem if they acquired him. I wouldn't trade Doubront for his though. The kid is still learning to be a big league pitcher and has shown flashes of very good upside potential. I would trade a combination of top tier prospect not named Bogharts or Bradley...but would be ok if they used either Barnes or Ranuando as the main chip. As I stated in my reply to Youk above. The more pressing need is a proven closer, end of the day this team will go as far as Jon Lester and Buccholz takes them. Garza is a solid # 2 on a good team and a very good #3 on a playoff caliber squad. a savy veteren with a ton of moixy but not a staff leader. His resume speaks for itself, he's never been a guy that consistently shuts down the other team aka Verlander or Hernandez...so the cost of acquisition may well be more prohibitive given the expected return.  That's without factoring in the length of his contract vs the cost in prospects and moneys...

    [/QUOTE]


    I guess my main point wasnt that I didnt like Garza, but what it could cost for a 2 month rental. Theres no guarantees that Garza would forgo FA to sign with the Sox, especially if he finishes the season strong.

    I dont think giving up a top pitching prospect is worth it. Only for a legit game changer, which Garza is not IMO. Theo and Jed have a good idea what the Sox have in their system. Maybe they could settle on a couple lesser prospects with high ceilings, but are still a couple/three years away.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    I would not trade Doubront for Garza, even if Garza was under team control for 2-4 years.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I would not trade Doubront for Garza, even if Garza was under team control for 2-4 years.

     

     




    moon,

    With all due respect you also liked Danks over Garza when OI brought this up in the past correct?  I would take Garza over Doub, Danks, Morales, Aceves, Dempster and even Jon at this point if we had to win a big PS game.  Matt rarely hurts himself with BB's and recovers quickly if he does.  Danks has also shown better control through his career but has never won or pitched in big games in our division like Garza.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I would not trade Doubront for Garza, even if Garza was under team control for 2-4 years.

     

     




    moon,

    With all due respect you also liked Danks over Garza when OI brought this up in the past correct?  I would take Garza over Doub, Danks, Morales, Aceves, Dempster and even Jon at this point if we had to win a big PS game.  Matt rarely hurts himself with BB's and recovers quickly if he does.

     



    I have never mentioned Danks that I remember. Perhaps you are thinking of someone else.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    I dont know about clubhouse poison, but the asking price will be too much for a 2 month rental, IMO. Garza is a good pitcher, but is he the difference maker that will take this team deep into the playoffs? And who would you take out of the rotation for him? Our bottom 3 have been pitching very good as of late and the Buch/Aceves starts have been solid as well. Lester is the only one whos been struggling for 1.5 months, but I think they stick with him and let him work through it.

    If you think Garza is the guy craze, I can respect that. I just dont think he is and respectfully disagree.

     



    Your opinion is always taken well southpaw.  I just think Garza has what just about all our starters lack.  Good control and the ability to pitch under PS pressure, nothing scares the guy and he was always well prepared mentally in a big game.  I hated the guy when we had to play against the Rays but would love to have him in the rotation.  We give up way too many BB's as unit and look like a bunch of 4's and 5's in every other outing.

    Garza's numbers speak for themselves, forget the record put him on a club with our offense and he will be our second best pitcher unless Lackey can continue to put in a solid outing.  Doubront, Aceves, Jon, Demp and Morales don't have the control needed right now to put in consistent efforts down the stretch.  I'm also not sure Garza would be a two month rental and we need to sign a younger starter moving forward.  Dempster was highy overpaid and the wrong choice.  At this point I wouldn't hesitate at all to throw Doub into the package.  People forget what Garza is capable of because we don't see him anymore but he has focus and is still under 30.

     

     



    hey craze,

     

     

    I too like what Garza brings to the table And would'nt have a problem if they acquired him. I wouldn't trade Doubront for his though. The kid is still learning to be a big league pitcher and has shown flashes of very good upside potential. I would trade a combination of top tier prospect not named Bogharts or Bradley...but would be ok if they used either Barnes or Ranuando as the main chip. As I stated in my reply to Youk above. The more pressing need is a proven closer, end of the day this team will go as far as Jon Lester and Buccholz takes them. Garza is a solid # 2 on a good team and a very good #3 on a playoff caliber squad. a savy veteren with a ton of moixy but not a staff leader. His resume speaks for itself, he's never been a guy that consistently shuts down the other team aka Verlander or Hernandez...so the cost of acquisition may well be more prohibitive given the expected return.  That's without factoring in the length of his contract vs the cost in prospects and moneys...




    I guess my main point wasnt that I didnt like Garza, but what it could cost for a 2 month rental. Theres no guarantees that Garza would forgo FA to sign with the Sox, especially if he finishes the season strong.

     

    I dont think giving up a top pitching prospect is worth it. Only for a legit game changer, which Garza is not IMO. Theo and Jed have a good idea what the Sox have in their system. Maybe they could settle on a couple lesser prospects with high ceilings, but are still a couple/three years away.

     



    Garza is a lot younger and less expensive than Lee but both have the mindset to win a big game.  I would offer Garza two or three years if he did well because I believe he will be better than Doub could ever be.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    Garza career:

    vs NYY  1-4  4.48

    vs Bal   9-1  3.03 (when they were bad)

    vs Tor   6-6  2.14

    vs Bos  7-4  3.83

     

    Garza was in decline when he was moved to the Cubs:

    2010:

    vs NYY  0-1  8.10

    vs Bos   2-2  5.14

    vs Tor   0-3  3.72

    vs Bal   3-0  3.21

     

    The Rays always get rid of players just in time. That should be warning enough.

    Sox4ever

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Garza career:

    vs NYY  1-4  4.48

    vs Bal   9-1  3.03 (when they were bad)

    vs Tor   6-6  2.14

    vs Bos  7-4  3.83

     

    Garza was in decline when he was moved to the Cubs:

    2010:

    vs NYY  0-1  8.10

    vs Bos   2-2  5.14

    vs Tor   0-3  3.72

    vs Bal   3-0  3.21

     

    The Rays always get rid of players just in time. That should be warning enough.

    Sox4ever

     



    Disagree totally sorry and I do remember you wanting Danks before Garza.  Problem is it would take a lot of researching through old posts and we can't do that since the board changed over.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Garza career:

    vs NYY  1-4  4.48

    vs Bal   9-1  3.03 (when they were bad)

    vs Tor   6-6  2.14

    vs Bos  7-4  3.83

     

    Garza was in decline when he was moved to the Cubs:

    2010:

    vs NYY  0-1  8.10

    vs Bos   2-2  5.14

    vs Tor   0-3  3.72

    vs Bal   3-0  3.21

     

    The Rays always get rid of players just in time. That should be warning enough.

    Sox4ever

     



    Disagree totally sorry and I do remember you wanting Danks before Garza.  Problem is it would take a lot of researching through old posts and we can't do that since the board changed over.

     



    Maybe you are thinking of Gavin Floyd. 2 winters ago, I mentioned 10 different trade offers for him, some including Middlebrooks.

    This winter, I barely mentioned him either. His contract is almost done.

    I seriously never remember mentioning Danks in anyway. I always thought of him as pretty untouchable.

    You can still

    Danks has been hurt and never part of any trade rumors.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Garza career:

    vs NYY  1-4  4.48

    vs Bal   9-1  3.03 (when they were bad)

    vs Tor   6-6  2.14

    vs Bos  7-4  3.83

     

    Garza was in decline when he was moved to the Cubs:

    2010:

    vs NYY  0-1  8.10

    vs Bos   2-2  5.14

    vs Tor   0-3  3.72

    vs Bal   3-0  3.21

     

    The Rays always get rid of players just in time. That should be warning enough.

    Sox4ever

     



    Disagree totally sorry and I do remember you wanting Danks before Garza.  Problem is it would take a lot of researching through old posts and we can't do that since the board changed over.

     

     




    moon,

     

    If Garza gets his ERA under 4RPG this season that will be 7 straight years.  I could be wrong but I doubt any of our present starters have a combined WHIP of 1.21 in the past six years either.  Anyone who has watched Garza in his AL days also knows he pitched very well as a whole and kept his team in some very big games even though he had little run support.

    I'm not sure why you chose 2010 to show a huge decline but it simply isn't true.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    I predict the Sox will be looking to land Garza before the deadline.  Possibly in a package including Doub and/or Middy.  I know some of you don't like Garza but I would love to have him over Demp or Doub.  Garza's career WHIP, SO to BB ratio and past success in the AL East speaks for itself.  Put him on a team that like ours that can hit and I have no doubt he could be our #2 or 3 come playoff time.

    Just a hunch but thats my prediction, or hope anyway.



    Pass. Ive watched him pitch against the Reds, and they rocked him. Hes not what he once was. Still runs his mouth as much as ever, but not so much the same on the mound.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    I predict the Sox will be looking to land Garza before the deadline.  Possibly in a package including Doub and/or Middy.  I know some of you don't like Garza but I would love to have him over Demp or Doub.  Garza's career WHIP, SO to BB ratio and past success in the AL East speaks for itself.  Put him on a team that like ours that can hit and I have no doubt he could be our #2 or 3 come playoff time.

    Just a hunch but thats my prediction, or hope anyway.

     



    Pass. Ive watched him pitch against the Reds, and they rocked him. Hes not what he once was. Still runs his mouth as much as ever, but not so much the same on the mound.

     
    Then name one pitcher you would rather have under the age of 30 that has a 1.21 WHIP and under 4.00 ERA who is better, or could be had at a cheaper price.  Once again nobody has complained about having Garza as a teammate so where are fans basing their comments on of Matt running his mouth or being poisen in the clubhouse from?

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Garza career:

    vs NYY  1-4  4.48

    vs Bal   9-1  3.03 (when they were bad)

    vs Tor   6-6  2.14

    vs Bos  7-4  3.83

     

    Garza was in decline when he was moved to the Cubs:

    2010:

    vs NYY  0-1  8.10

    vs Bos   2-2  5.14

    vs Tor   0-3  3.72

    vs Bal   3-0  3.21

     

    The Rays always get rid of players just in time. That should be warning enough.

    Sox4ever

     



    Disagree totally sorry and I do remember you wanting Danks before Garza.  Problem is it would take a lot of researching through old posts and we can't do that since the board changed over.

     

     



    Maybe you are thinking of Gavin Floyd. 2 winters ago, I mentioned 10 different trade offers for him, some including Middlebrooks.

     

    This winter, I barely mentioned him either. His contract is almost done.

    I seriously never remember mentioning Danks in anyway. I always thought of him as pretty untouchable.

    You can still

    Danks has been hurt and never part of any trade rumors.

     



    Thats it my bad, right team wrong pitcher sorry.  I just think we need someone who has been battle tested in the AL East who has come up with some big wins.  He is also under 30 and my bet is he would be one of our best and more consistent starters.

     

    Just my opinion!  I could be wrong

     
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