I still like Garza in our rotation

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation


    If you don't mind watching someone spit five or six times (sometimes all over himself) while getting the sign from the catcher, he's your man!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:


    If you don't mind watching someone spit five or six times (sometimes all over himself) while getting the sign from the catcher, he's your man!



    Offer a reasonable "two month rental" package or attempt a sign and trade for Garza, then replace a couple guys in the pen with Aceves etc.  I don't see any other moves needed if Gomes continues to hit and even then we could always give Brentz a shot. 

    Theo's demands may be high but we may better players than most clubs who could make their club better off in the future without hurting the farm much.  Garza is the man, I will promote a trade for him until hes off the market.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    I like Garza, but at what cost?  The Sox either remain cost-conscious and committed to developing their own guys or they add to the roster by giving up prospects.  Which will it be?  It's not every year that you make the playoffs (hopefully) so the Sox are in the position of trying to rebuild but also needing play well in the second half of the season to keep in the playoff huint.  

    I guess we should be happy at how well the Sox have played.  I'm sure if they add to the roster it won't be by adding someone who commands their top prospects.   



     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

     

    I like Garza, but at what cost?  The Sox either remain cost-conscious and committed to developing their own guys or they add to the roster by giving up prospects.  Which will it be?  It's not every year that you make the playoffs (hopefully) so the Sox are in the position of trying to rebuild but also needing play well in the second half of the season to keep in the playoff huint.  

    I guess we should be happy at how well the Sox have played.  I'm sure if they add to the roster it won't be by adding someone who commands their top prospects.   



     



    At some point we need to find a better "long term" SP than Dempster or Doubront.  We sign guys like Dempster because our kids never develop as quickly, or as expected.  If we could pull off a reasonable trade for the 29 year old Garza it does nothing but help our staff.  I'm not sure what fans seem to like about Demp and Doub but the bottom line is this.  Dempster either throws "first pitch" strikes right down the center of the plate and gets crushed or walk too many batters and exits too early.  Doub simply can't throw strikes but players swing at his bad pitches enough to make him look better than he really is.

     

    Nothing has changed, we still have names like De La Rosa, Webster, Barnes and Renaudo being thrown around who may never come close to Garza's career WHIP or determination to win a big game so can definately afford to lose a few prospects for a proven starter.

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

     

    I like Garza, but at what cost?  The Sox either remain cost-conscious and committed to developing their own guys or they add to the roster by giving up prospects.  Which will it be?  It's not every year that you make the playoffs (hopefully) so the Sox are in the position of trying to rebuild but also needing play well in the second half of the season to keep in the playoff huint.  

    I guess we should be happy at how well the Sox have played.  I'm sure if they add to the roster it won't be by adding someone who commands their top prospects.   



     



    At some point we need to find a better "long term" SP than Dempster or Doubront.  We sign guys like Dempster because our kids never develop as quikly, or as expected.  If we could pull off a reasonable trade for the 29 year old Garza it does nothing but help our staff.  I'm not sure what fans seem to like about Demp and Doub but the bottom line is this.  Dempster either throws "first pitch" strikes right down the center of the plate and gets crushed or walk too many batters and exits too early.  Doub simply can't throw strikes but players swing at his bad pitches enough to make him look better than he really is.

     

    Nothing has changed, we still have names like De La Rosa, Webster, Barnes and Renaudo being thrown around who may never come close to Garza's career WHIP or determination to win a big game so can definately afford to lose a few prospects for a proven starter.

     

     




    If they like him, then they can bid on him this winter without having to massively overpay in prospects for a guy who has been injury prone and mediocre the last couple years.

    If Lackey keeps going the way he is, Lester improves (which hes showed signs of), and Buch returns healthy, we should be fine. Dempster and Doubront have been more than adequate for a 4-5 starter compared to the rest of the league.

    Garza isnt a TOTR guy and unless they find one, I see no need to get a middle of the rotation guy. Just my opinion. I dont mind giving up prospects. I just dont consider Garza worthy of it.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

     

     

    I like Garza, but at what cost?  The Sox either remain cost-conscious and committed to developing their own guys or they add to the roster by giving up prospects.  Which will it be?  It's not every year that you make the playoffs (hopefully) so the Sox are in the position of trying to rebuild but also needing play well in the second half of the season to keep in the playoff huint.  

    I guess we should be happy at how well the Sox have played.  I'm sure if they add to the roster it won't be by adding someone who commands their top prospects.   



     

     



    At some point we need to find a better "long term" SP than Dempster or Doubront.  We sign guys like Dempster because our kids never develop as quikly, or as expected.  If we could pull off a reasonable trade for the 29 year old Garza it does nothing but help our staff.  I'm not sure what fans seem to like about Demp and Doub but the bottom line is this.  Dempster either throws "first pitch" strikes right down the center of the plate and gets crushed or walk too many batters and exits too early.  Doub simply can't throw strikes but players swing at his bad pitches enough to make him look better than he really is.

     

     

    Nothing has changed, we still have names like De La Rosa, Webster, Barnes and Renaudo being thrown around who may never come close to Garza's career WHIP or determination to win a big game so can definately afford to lose a few prospects for a proven starter.

     

     




    If they like him, then they can bid on him this winter without having to massively overpay in prospects for a guy who has been injury prone and mediocre the last couple years.

     

    If Lackey keeps going the way he is, Lester improves (which hes showed signs of), and Buch returns healthy, we should be fine. Dempster and Doubront have been more than adequate for a 4-5 starter compared to the rest of the league.

    Garza isnt a TOTR guy and unless they find one, I see no need to get a middle of the rotation guy. Just my opinion. I dont mind giving up prospects. I just dont consider Garza worthy of it.

     



    True on bidding for him as FA but anyone who studies Garza's history and stats will disagree.  Not win/loss record playing for teams with little run production, or the fact hes been hurt and on the DL probably less than Clay has.

    Doub has no control and a slow delivery that allows base runners to run at will.  He will never be close to what Garza could be in Boston, or most of other hyped up kids.  Adding Garza to the rotation makes our weakest link Dempster which is much better than what we have and gives us insurance for the PS.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

    I like Garza, but at what cost?  The Sox either remain cost-conscious and committed to developing their own guys or they add to the roster by giving up prospects.  Which will it be?  It's not every year that you make the playoffs (hopefully) so the Sox are in the position of trying to rebuild but also needing play well in the second half of the season to keep in the playoff huint.  

    I guess we should be happy at how well the Sox have played.  I'm sure if they add to the roster it won't be by adding someone who commands their top prospects.   





    The Sox have been in talks with the Cubs as I suspected.  At least a few of us recognize what Garza could mean to our staff.  I would rather try a sign and trade and lose Dempster at some point but even a two month rental at the right price wouldn't be bad.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

     

    I like Garza, but at what cost?  The Sox either remain cost-conscious and committed to developing their own guys or they add to the roster by giving up prospects.  Which will it be?  It's not every year that you make the playoffs (hopefully) so the Sox are in the position of trying to rebuild but also needing play well in the second half of the season to keep in the playoff huint.  

    I guess we should be happy at how well the Sox have played.  I'm sure if they add to the roster it won't be by adding someone who commands their top prospects.   



     



    The Sox have been in talks with the Cubs as I suspected.  At least a few of us recognize what Garza could mean to our staff.  I would rather try a sign and trade and lose Dempster at some point but even a two month rental at the right price wouldn't be bad.

     



    i'd like to get another starter for the stretch run. Garza is the best available and really helps our rotation. Doobie to the pen would also give us the BP help we need and insurance for when someone goes down. The only issue is the cost. Not every one of our prospects is going to pan out. Gotta figure our which ones are future busts and sell high.

     

    I think we are in good shape whether we get another starter or not.. but still, i just look at 2011 and would rather give up a few prospects and move doobie to the pen and be safe than sorry.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

     

     

    I like Garza, but at what cost?  The Sox either remain cost-conscious and committed to developing their own guys or they add to the roster by giving up prospects.  Which will it be?  It's not every year that you make the playoffs (hopefully) so the Sox are in the position of trying to rebuild but also needing play well in the second half of the season to keep in the playoff huint.  

    I guess we should be happy at how well the Sox have played.  I'm sure if they add to the roster it won't be by adding someone who commands their top prospects.   



     

     



    The Sox have been in talks with the Cubs as I suspected.  At least a few of us recognize what Garza could mean to our staff.  I would rather try a sign and trade and lose Dempster at some point but even a two month rental at the right price wouldn't be bad.

     

     

     



    i'd like to get another starter for the stretch run. Garza is the best available and really helps our rotation. Doobie to the pen would also give us the BP help we need and insurance for when someone goes down. The only issue is the cost. Not every one of our prospects is going to pan out. Gotta figure our which ones are future busts and sell high.

     

     

    I think we are in good shape whether we get another starter or not.. but still, i just look at 2011 and would rather give up a few prospects and move doobie to the pen and be safe than sorry.



    Doobie has an ERA of under 3 since mid May. You really think now is the time to send him to the pen? We have a very solid SP rotation, as long as they can stay relatively healthy. And for depth we have Aceves and Webster, both of whom can fill in capably. Since getting Garza would cost us someone significant-and he would be a rental-I think it would not be the right move. Find a closer first.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

     

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

     

     

     

     

    I like Garza, but at what cost?  The Sox either remain cost-conscious and committed to developing their own guys or they add to the roster by giving up prospects.  Which will it be?  It's not every year that you make the playoffs (hopefully) so the Sox are in the position of trying to rebuild but also needing play well in the second half of the season to keep in the playoff huint.  

    I guess we should be happy at how well the Sox have played.  I'm sure if they add to the roster it won't be by adding someone who commands their top prospects.   



     

     

     



    The Sox have been in talks with the Cubs as I suspected.  At least a few of us recognize what Garza could mean to our staff.  I would rather try a sign and trade and lose Dempster at some point but even a two month rental at the right price wouldn't be bad.

     

     

     

     

     



    i'd like to get another starter for the stretch run. Garza is the best available and really helps our rotation. Doobie to the pen would also give us the BP help we need and insurance for when someone goes down. The only issue is the cost. Not every one of our prospects is going to pan out. Gotta figure our which ones are future busts and sell high.

     

     

     

    I think we are in good shape whether we get another starter or not.. but still, i just look at 2011 and would rather give up a few prospects and move doobie to the pen and be safe than sorry.

     



    Doobie has an ERA of under 3 since mid May. You really think now is the time to send him to the pen? We have a very solid SP rotation, as long as they can stay relatively healthy. And for depth we have Aceves and Webster, both of whom can fill in capably. Since getting Garza would cost us someone significant-and he would be a rental-I think it would not be the right move. Find a closer first.

     



    i've learned through painful experience that you cant rely on health. who would you rather turn to after an injury to a starter. Aceves and Webster? or Doubront.
    i'm not saying MAKE IT HAPPEN.. i'm just saying if the option is there without paying through the nose then pull the trigger.

    like i said, i'd rather give up a few prospects and move doobie to the pen for a few months than be wishing we'd have done that as i watch the not-redsox play in the postseason

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

     

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

     

     

     

    I like Garza, but at what cost?  The Sox either remain cost-conscious and committed to developing their own guys or they add to the roster by giving up prospects.  Which will it be?  It's not every year that you make the playoffs (hopefully) so the Sox are in the position of trying to rebuild but also needing play well in the second half of the season to keep in the playoff huint.  

    I guess we should be happy at how well the Sox have played.  I'm sure if they add to the roster it won't be by adding someone who commands their top prospects.   



     

     

     



    The Sox have been in talks with the Cubs as I suspected.  At least a few of us recognize what Garza could mean to our staff.  I would rather try a sign and trade and lose Dempster at some point but even a two month rental at the right price wouldn't be bad.

     

     

     

     



    i'd like to get another starter for the stretch run. Garza is the best available and really helps our rotation. Doobie to the pen would also give us the BP help we need and insurance for when someone goes down. The only issue is the cost. Not every one of our prospects is going to pan out. Gotta figure our which ones are future busts and sell high.

     

     

     

    I think we are in good shape whether we get another starter or not.. but still, i just look at 2011 and would rather give up a few prospects and move doobie to the pen and be safe than sorry.



    Doobie has an ERA of under 3 since mid May. You really think now is the time to send him to the pen? We have a very solid SP rotation, as long as they can stay relatively healthy. And for depth we have Aceves and Webster, both of whom can fill in capably. Since getting Garza would cost us someone significant-and he would be a rental-I think it would not be the right move. Find a closer first.

     

     



    If Ben does I do, Doub pitched well last night but his 1.4 plus WHIP hasn't changed since coming up.  I would much rather lose Dempsters 13mil and give it to Garza but that won't happen.  As far as Webster?  Don't be suprised if he is part of the trade because it doesn't sound like the Cubs want Doub.  

    http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2013/07/05/mlb-rumors-boston-red-sox-targeting-matt-garza/

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

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    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I like Garza, but at what cost?  The Sox either remain cost-conscious and committed to developing their own guys or they add to the roster by giving up prospects.  Which will it be?  It's not every year that you make the playoffs (hopefully) so the Sox are in the position of trying to rebuild but also needing play well in the second half of the season to keep in the playoff huint.  

    I guess we should be happy at how well the Sox have played.  I'm sure if they add to the roster it won't be by adding someone who commands their top prospects.   



     

     

     

     

     



    The Sox have been in talks with the Cubs as I suspected.  At least a few of us recognize what Garza could mean to our staff.  I would rather try a sign and trade and lose Dempster at some point but even a two month rental at the right price wouldn't be bad.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    i'd like to get another starter for the stretch run. Garza is the best available and really helps our rotation. Doobie to the pen would also give us the BP help we need and insurance for when someone goes down. The only issue is the cost. Not every one of our prospects is going to pan out. Gotta figure our which ones are future busts and sell high.

     

     

     

     

     

    I think we are in good shape whether we get another starter or not.. but still, i just look at 2011 and would rather give up a few prospects and move doobie to the pen and be safe than sorry.

     

     

     



    Doobie has an ERA of under 3 since mid May. You really think now is the time to send him to the pen? We have a very solid SP rotation, as long as they can stay relatively healthy. And for depth we have Aceves and Webster, both of whom can fill in capably. Since getting Garza would cost us someone significant-and he would be a rental-I think it would not be the right move. Find a closer first.

     

     

     

     

     



    i've learned through painful experience that you cant rely on health. who would you rather turn to after an injury to a starter. Aceves and Webster? or Doubront.
    i'm not saying MAKE IT HAPPEN.. i'm just saying if the option is there without paying through the nose then pull the trigger.

     

     

    like i said, i'd rather give up a few prospects and move doobie to the pen for a few months than be wishing we'd have done that as i watch the not-redsox play in the postseason

     




    Unless an injury occurs theres no need for another middle of the rotation guy. Its not like Garza a depth guy. Doubie does not deserve to be put in the pen, hes earned his rotation spot. Over the last 2 months hes brought that era down 2 runs. Hes had one game since the start of June where hes given up 4 runs, consistently gives you 6+ innings now, and from the left side. Sorry, have to disagree with putting Doubie in the pen.

     

    And besides Demp dealing with that slight groin tweak where his numbers took a hit, hes been solid too. Since his last start in May Demp hasnt given up more than 3 runs in one game. He also gives you 6+ innings. Another guy whos ERA has been trending in the right direction over the last month+.

    Lackey, no need to get into that. hes a keeper so far.

    Lesters adjustments and better use of his change up have seemed to turn things around forhim as well.

    Buchholz will be back after the break and should be ready and rested.

    You dont just get a starter and put a kid who has earned a spot in the pen because someone MIGHT get hurt. Especially for the haul of prospects that the Cubs want. No way. Thats why we have good depth guys like Aceves and now Webster. I wouldnt disrupt that rotation the way it is now.

    We need more bullpen help...Not starters. unless its a top guy, which isnt happening.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

     

     

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I like Garza, but at what cost?  The Sox either remain cost-conscious and committed to developing their own guys or they add to the roster by giving up prospects.  Which will it be?  It's not every year that you make the playoffs (hopefully) so the Sox are in the position of trying to rebuild but also needing play well in the second half of the season to keep in the playoff huint.  

    I guess we should be happy at how well the Sox have played.  I'm sure if they add to the roster it won't be by adding someone who commands their top prospects.   



     

     

     

     

     



    The Sox have been in talks with the Cubs as I suspected.  At least a few of us recognize what Garza could mean to our staff.  I would rather try a sign and trade and lose Dempster at some point but even a two month rental at the right price wouldn't be bad.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    i'd like to get another starter for the stretch run. Garza is the best available and really helps our rotation. Doobie to the pen would also give us the BP help we need and insurance for when someone goes down. The only issue is the cost. Not every one of our prospects is going to pan out. Gotta figure our which ones are future busts and sell high.

     

     

     

     

     

    I think we are in good shape whether we get another starter or not.. but still, i just look at 2011 and would rather give up a few prospects and move doobie to the pen and be safe than sorry.

     

     



    Doobie has an ERA of under 3 since mid May. You really think now is the time to send him to the pen? We have a very solid SP rotation, as long as they can stay relatively healthy. And for depth we have Aceves and Webster, both of whom can fill in capably. Since getting Garza would cost us someone significant-and he would be a rental-I think it would not be the right move. Find a closer first.

     

     

     

     



    i've learned through painful experience that you cant rely on health. who would you rather turn to after an injury to a starter. Aceves and Webster? or Doubront.
    i'm not saying MAKE IT HAPPEN.. i'm just saying if the option is there without paying through the nose then pull the trigger.

     

     

    like i said, i'd rather give up a few prospects and move doobie to the pen for a few months than be wishing we'd have done that as i watch the not-redsox play in the postseason




    Unless an injury occurs theres no need for another middle of the rotation guy. Its not like Garza a depth guy. Doubie does not deserve to be put in the pen, hes earned his rotation spot. Over the last 2 months hes brought that era down 2 runs. Hes had one game since the start of June where hes given up 4 runs, consistently gives you 6+ innings now, and from the left side. Sorry, have to disagree with putting Doubie in the pen.

     

    And besides Demp dealing with that slight groin tweak where his numbers took a hit, hes been solid too. Since his last start in May Demp hasnt given up mpre than 3 runs in one game. He also gives you 6+ innings. Another guy whos ERA has been trending in the right direction over the last month+.

    Lackey, no need to get into that. hes a keeper so far.

    Lesters adjustments and better use of his change up have seemed to turn things around forhim as well.

    Buchholz will be back after the break and should be ready and rested.

    You dont just get a starter and put a kid who has earned a spot in the pen because someone MIGHT get hurt. Especially for the haul of prospects that the Cubs want. No way. Thats why we have good depth guys like Aceves and now Webster. I wouldnt disrupt that rotation the way it is now.

    We need more bullpen help...Not starters. unless its a top guy, which isnt happeneing.

     



    Sorry I have to disagree, the guys past and career WHIP are proof enough for me. 

     

    Read the link southpaw, it's not just about the regular season anymore if the Sox go after Garza.  The experts know Garza's past success in the AL East and ability to win a big game could be the difference maker come playoff time and/or beyond.  Doub/Webster/Demp and Aceves wouldn't be my choice over Garza in a big game.  We also can't make excuses for Demp, we knew what the guy was when he was signed.  An old veteran #5 arm brought in the settle the staff and clubhouse. 

    http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2013/07/05/mlb-rumors-boston-red-sox-targeting-matt-garza/

     
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

     

     

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I like Garza, but at what cost?  The Sox either remain cost-conscious and committed to developing their own guys or they add to the roster by giving up prospects.  Which will it be?  It's not every year that you make the playoffs (hopefully) so the Sox are in the position of trying to rebuild but also needing play well in the second half of the season to keep in the playoff huint.  

    I guess we should be happy at how well the Sox have played.  I'm sure if they add to the roster it won't be by adding someone who commands their top prospects.   



     

     

     

     

     



    The Sox have been in talks with the Cubs as I suspected.  At least a few of us recognize what Garza could mean to our staff.  I would rather try a sign and trade and lose Dempster at some point but even a two month rental at the right price wouldn't be bad.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    i'd like to get another starter for the stretch run. Garza is the best available and really helps our rotation. Doobie to the pen would also give us the BP help we need and insurance for when someone goes down. The only issue is the cost. Not every one of our prospects is going to pan out. Gotta figure our which ones are future busts and sell high.

     

     

     

     

     

    I think we are in good shape whether we get another starter or not.. but still, i just look at 2011 and would rather give up a few prospects and move doobie to the pen and be safe than sorry.

     

     



    Doobie has an ERA of under 3 since mid May. You really think now is the time to send him to the pen? We have a very solid SP rotation, as long as they can stay relatively healthy. And for depth we have Aceves and Webster, both of whom can fill in capably. Since getting Garza would cost us someone significant-and he would be a rental-I think it would not be the right move. Find a closer first.

     

     

     

     



    i've learned through painful experience that you cant rely on health. who would you rather turn to after an injury to a starter. Aceves and Webster? or Doubront.
    i'm not saying MAKE IT HAPPEN.. i'm just saying if the option is there without paying through the nose then pull the trigger.

     

     

    like i said, i'd rather give up a few prospects and move doobie to the pen for a few months than be wishing we'd have done that as i watch the not-redsox play in the postseason




    Unless an injury occurs theres no need for another middle of the rotation guy. Its not like Garza a depth guy. Doubie does not deserve to be put in the pen, hes earned his rotation spot. Over the last 2 months hes brought that era down 2 runs. Hes had one game since the start of June where hes given up 4 runs, consistently gives you 6+ innings now, and from the left side. Sorry, have to disagree with putting Doubie in the pen.

     

    And besides Demp dealing with that slight groin tweak where his numbers took a hit, hes been solid too. Since his last start in May Demp hasnt given up mpre than 3 runs in one game. He also gives you 6+ innings. Another guy whos ERA has been trending in the right direction over the last month+.

    Lackey, no need to get into that. hes a keeper so far.

    Lesters adjustments and better use of his change up have seemed to turn things around forhim as well.

    Buchholz will be back after the break and should be ready and rested.

    You dont just get a starter and put a kid who has earned a spot in the pen because someone MIGHT get hurt. Especially for the haul of prospects that the Cubs want. No way. Thats why we have good depth guys like Aceves and now Webster. I wouldnt disrupt that rotation the way it is now.

    We need more bullpen help...Not starters. unless its a top guy, which isnt happeneing.

     



    Sorry I have to disagree, the guys past and career WHIP are proof enough for me. 

     

    Read the link southpaw, it's not just about the regular season anymore if the Sox go after Garza.  The experts know Garza's past success in the AL East and ability to win a big game could be the difference maker come playoff time and/or beyond.  Doub/Webster/Demp and Aceves wouldn't be my choice over Garza in a big game.  We also can't make excuses for Demp, we knew what the guy was when he was signed.  An old veteran #5 arm brought in the settle the staff and clubhouse. 

    http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2013/07/05/mlb-rumors-boston-red-sox-targeting-matt-garza/

     



    A valid arguement for sure, but....
    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one craze. I dont think the cost is worth the return.

    I like a 1-2-3 of Lack/Lester/Buch for the playoffs. And Im comfortable with Doubront or Dempster as a #4 in a long series.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    We need more bullpen help...Not starters. unless its a top guy, which isnt happening.



    Our SP has been a strength this season but there is a reason why the addage "you can never have enough pitching" exists. Having 6 bonafide starters on the 25-man roster is a huge upgrade. Especially in the second half after the deadline.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

     

     

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I like Garza, but at what cost?  The Sox either remain cost-conscious and committed to developing their own guys or they add to the roster by giving up prospects.  Which will it be?  It's not every year that you make the playoffs (hopefully) so the Sox are in the position of trying to rebuild but also needing play well in the second half of the season to keep in the playoff huint.  

    I guess we should be happy at how well the Sox have played.  I'm sure if they add to the roster it won't be by adding someone who commands their top prospects.   



     

     

     

     

     



    The Sox have been in talks with the Cubs as I suspected.  At least a few of us recognize what Garza could mean to our staff.  I would rather try a sign and trade and lose Dempster at some point but even a two month rental at the right price wouldn't be bad.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    i'd like to get another starter for the stretch run. Garza is the best available and really helps our rotation. Doobie to the pen would also give us the BP help we need and insurance for when someone goes down. The only issue is the cost. Not every one of our prospects is going to pan out. Gotta figure our which ones are future busts and sell high.

     

     

     

     

     

    I think we are in good shape whether we get another starter or not.. but still, i just look at 2011 and would rather give up a few prospects and move doobie to the pen and be safe than sorry.

     

     



    Doobie has an ERA of under 3 since mid May. You really think now is the time to send him to the pen? We have a very solid SP rotation, as long as they can stay relatively healthy. And for depth we have Aceves and Webster, both of whom can fill in capably. Since getting Garza would cost us someone significant-and he would be a rental-I think it would not be the right move. Find a closer first.

     

     

     

     



    i've learned through painful experience that you cant rely on health. who would you rather turn to after an injury to a starter. Aceves and Webster? or Doubront.
    i'm not saying MAKE IT HAPPEN.. i'm just saying if the option is there without paying through the nose then pull the trigger.

     

     

    like i said, i'd rather give up a few prospects and move doobie to the pen for a few months than be wishing we'd have done that as i watch the not-redsox play in the postseason




    Unless an injury occurs theres no need for another middle of the rotation guy. Its not like Garza a depth guy. Doubie does not deserve to be put in the pen, hes earned his rotation spot. Over the last 2 months hes brought that era down 2 runs. Hes had one game since the start of June where hes given up 4 runs, consistently gives you 6+ innings now, and from the left side. Sorry, have to disagree with putting Doubie in the pen.

     

    And besides Demp dealing with that slight groin tweak where his numbers took a hit, hes been solid too. Since his last start in May Demp hasnt given up mpre than 3 runs in one game. He also gives you 6+ innings. Another guy whos ERA has been trending in the right direction over the last month+.

    Lackey, no need to get into that. hes a keeper so far.

    Lesters adjustments and better use of his change up have seemed to turn things around forhim as well.

    Buchholz will be back after the break and should be ready and rested.

    You dont just get a starter and put a kid who has earned a spot in the pen because someone MIGHT get hurt. Especially for the haul of prospects that the Cubs want. No way. Thats why we have good depth guys like Aceves and now Webster. I wouldnt disrupt that rotation the way it is now.

    We need more bullpen help...Not starters. unless its a top guy, which isnt happeneing.

     



    Sorry I have to disagree, the guys past and career WHIP are proof enough for me. 

     

    Read the link southpaw, it's not just about the regular season anymore if the Sox go after Garza.  The experts know Garza's past success in the AL East and ability to win a big game could be the difference maker come playoff time and/or beyond.  Doub/Webster/Demp and Aceves wouldn't be my choice over Garza in a big game.  We also can't make excuses for Demp, we knew what the guy was when he was signed.  An old veteran #5 arm brought in the settle the staff and clubhouse. 

    http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2013/07/05/mlb-rumors-boston-red-sox-targeting-matt-garza/

     



    A valid arguement for sure, but....
    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one craze. I dont think the cost is worth the return.

    I like a 1-2-3 of Lack/Lester/Buch for the playoffs. And Im comfortable with Doubront or Dempster as a #4 in a long series.



    Thats why I respect and enjoy discussing baseball with you.  Clay is fragile and may not be anywhere near his old self when he returns.  What if he returns for a start or two then goes DL again?  Or Lackey/Jon get hurt?  I just don't think our depth is consistent enough to hold big bats down in a long playoff series.  BUT I also don't want to give up the farm for two months of Garza.  I would love to sign him for three years or so.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    We need more bullpen help...Not starters. unless its a top guy, which isnt happening.

     



    Our SP has been a strength this season but there is a reason why the addage "you can never have enough pitching" exists. Having 6 bonafide starters on the 25-man roster is a huge upgrade. Especially in the second half after the deadline.

     




    Doubie is pitching like a #2 right now.

    I understand the arguement and thats why we have DEPTH GUYS. we have better ones than we have had in the past as we can see from the solid results this year. Aceves and Webster are good in that role. Im not for taking a kid whos be doing fantastic and putting him in the pemn because someone might get hurt when we already have depth. That, and I dont think Garza is worth the asking price.

    Like craze, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

     

     

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I like Garza, but at what cost?  The Sox either remain cost-conscious and committed to developing their own guys or they add to the roster by giving up prospects.  Which will it be?  It's not every year that you make the playoffs (hopefully) so the Sox are in the position of trying to rebuild but also needing play well in the second half of the season to keep in the playoff huint.  

    I guess we should be happy at how well the Sox have played.  I'm sure if they add to the roster it won't be by adding someone who commands their top prospects.   



     

     

     

     

     



    The Sox have been in talks with the Cubs as I suspected.  At least a few of us recognize what Garza could mean to our staff.  I would rather try a sign and trade and lose Dempster at some point but even a two month rental at the right price wouldn't be bad.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    i'd like to get another starter for the stretch run. Garza is the best available and really helps our rotation. Doobie to the pen would also give us the BP help we need and insurance for when someone goes down. The only issue is the cost. Not every one of our prospects is going to pan out. Gotta figure our which ones are future busts and sell high.

     

     

     

     

     

    I think we are in good shape whether we get another starter or not.. but still, i just look at 2011 and would rather give up a few prospects and move doobie to the pen and be safe than sorry.

     

     



    Doobie has an ERA of under 3 since mid May. You really think now is the time to send him to the pen? We have a very solid SP rotation, as long as they can stay relatively healthy. And for depth we have Aceves and Webster, both of whom can fill in capably. Since getting Garza would cost us someone significant-and he would be a rental-I think it would not be the right move. Find a closer first.

     

     

     

     



    i've learned through painful experience that you cant rely on health. who would you rather turn to after an injury to a starter. Aceves and Webster? or Doubront.
    i'm not saying MAKE IT HAPPEN.. i'm just saying if the option is there without paying through the nose then pull the trigger.

     

     

    like i said, i'd rather give up a few prospects and move doobie to the pen for a few months than be wishing we'd have done that as i watch the not-redsox play in the postseason




    Unless an injury occurs theres no need for another middle of the rotation guy. Its not like Garza a depth guy. Doubie does not deserve to be put in the pen, hes earned his rotation spot. Over the last 2 months hes brought that era down 2 runs. Hes had one game since the start of June where hes given up 4 runs, consistently gives you 6+ innings now, and from the left side. Sorry, have to disagree with putting Doubie in the pen.

     

    And besides Demp dealing with that slight groin tweak where his numbers took a hit, hes been solid too. Since his last start in May Demp hasnt given up mpre than 3 runs in one game. He also gives you 6+ innings. Another guy whos ERA has been trending in the right direction over the last month+.

    Lackey, no need to get into that. hes a keeper so far.

    Lesters adjustments and better use of his change up have seemed to turn things around forhim as well.

    Buchholz will be back after the break and should be ready and rested.

    You dont just get a starter and put a kid who has earned a spot in the pen because someone MIGHT get hurt. Especially for the haul of prospects that the Cubs want. No way. Thats why we have good depth guys like Aceves and now Webster. I wouldnt disrupt that rotation the way it is now.

    We need more bullpen help...Not starters. unless its a top guy, which isnt happeneing.

     



    Sorry I have to disagree, the guys past and career WHIP are proof enough for me. 

     

    Read the link southpaw, it's not just about the regular season anymore if the Sox go after Garza.  The experts know Garza's past success in the AL East and ability to win a big game could be the difference maker come playoff time and/or beyond.  Doub/Webster/Demp and Aceves wouldn't be my choice over Garza in a big game.  We also can't make excuses for Demp, we knew what the guy was when he was signed.  An old veteran #5 arm brought in the settle the staff and clubhouse. 

    http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2013/07/05/mlb-rumors-boston-red-sox-targeting-matt-garza/

     



    A valid arguement for sure, but....
    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one craze. I dont think the cost is worth the return.

    I like a 1-2-3 of Lack/Lester/Buch for the playoffs. And Im comfortable with Doubront or Dempster as a #4 in a long series.

     

     



    Thats why I respect and enjoy discussing baseball with you.  Clay is fragile and may not be anywhere near his old self when he returns.  What if he returns for a start or two then goes DL again?  Or Lackey/Jon get hurt?  I just don't think our depth is consistent enough to hold big bats down in a long playoff series.  BUT I also don't want to give up the farm for two months of Garza.  I would love to sign him for three years or so.

     

     

     




    It truly is a tough call and could go either way. I dont know the extent of Buchholz' injuries and Im not around him every day, so I have to trust BC and JF. If they think getting another starter is the best thing, then so be it. But if they are Ok with Buch going the rest of the way, then Ok.

     

    From where Im sitting I just dont like the cost for getting garza. maybe explore something this offseason or if the price comes down, it might sit better with me. Im willing to go with what has got us to this point so far though and take the chance we can stay healthy the rest of the way.

    depending on health is surely taking a chance, but losing key pieces to the future on a guy whos good, but not a true ace type or even a 1-2 starter, is also taking a big chance.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

    We need more bullpen help...Not starters. unless its a top guy, which isnt happening.

     

     



    Our SP has been a strength this season but there is a reason why the addage "you can never have enough pitching" exists. Having 6 bonafide starters on the 25-man roster is a huge upgrade. Especially in the second half after the deadline.

     

     




    Doubie is pitching like a #2 right now.

     

    I understand the arguement and thats why we have DEPTH GUYS. we have better ones than we have had in the past as we can see from the solid results this year. Aceves and Webster are good in that role. Im not for taking a kid whos be doing fantastic and putting him in the pemn because someone might get hurt when we already have depth. That, and I dont think Garza is worth the asking price.

    Like craze, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.




    Agreed, I just want one more "experienced" guy on our staff, especially if we make the PS when every run counts most.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

    We need more bullpen help...Not starters. unless its a top guy, which isnt happening.

     

     



    Our SP has been a strength this season but there is a reason why the addage "you can never have enough pitching" exists. Having 6 bonafide starters on the 25-man roster is a huge upgrade. Especially in the second half after the deadline.

     

     




    Doubie is pitching like a #2 right now.

     

    I understand the arguement and thats why we have DEPTH GUYS. we have better ones than we have had in the past as we can see from the solid results this year. Aceves and Webster are good in that role. Im not for taking a kid whos be doing fantastic and putting him in the pemn because someone might get hurt when we already have depth. That, and I dont think Garza is worth the asking price.

    Like craze, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

     

     




    Agreed, I just want one more "experienced" guy on our staff, especially if we make the PS when every run counts most.

     

     

     




    Like I said craze, you have a valid arguement, no question. I think where we differ is Im just not sure garza is the guy for that price. Im not sure hes enough of a game changer and upgrade to be worth one or 2 of our top 10 prospects and maybe some lower upside kids. Theo/Jed are asking for the moon, sun, and stars for Garza. And being the best starter at the deadline whos pitching well too, he should get close to that from someone.

     

    I think Garza could be traded before the ASB, so we might not have to wait too long to find out where he goes. If we do get him, like all our players, I will cheer for him to help us win a WSC.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from lasitter. Show lasitter's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    Theo can ask for anything. If someone else wants to overpay for a rental, I say GREAT!

    Watch and wait and see if anything comes our way ...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mudbugger. Show mudbugger's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    I would pass on Garza......but if the Sox did trade for him, I hope its a package of B level prospects.

    I agree with the majority that Garza would be the equivalant to a back end of the rotation addition, which the Red Sox really don't need.  I would rather see those prospects go get someone like Fransico Rodriguez for an addition to the bullpen.  

    I don't think with the amount of teams in the pennant race that any team would be able to acqiure a top of the rotation type of pitcher.

    I wouldnt mind trading trading a combination of the "A" level prospects for someone like Stanton from Miami, but am more than comfortable that the depth in the farm system will be enough for the remander of the season.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to mudbugger's comment:

     

    I would pass on Garza......but if the Sox did trade for him, I hope its a package of B level prospects.

    I agree with the majority that Garza would be the equivalant to a back end of the rotation addition, which the Red Sox really don't need.  I would rather see those prospects go get someone like Fransico Rodriguez for an addition to the bullpen.  

    I don't think with the amount of teams in the pennant race that any team would be able to acqiure a top of the rotation type of pitcher.

    I wouldnt mind trading trading a combination of the "A" level prospects for someone like Stanton from Miami, but am more than comfortable that the depth in the farm system will be enough for the remander of the season.

     



    I have to laugh a bit when some of you consider Garza a "back of the rotation pitcher" if he came to Boston.  His career WHIP clearly shows he has been better than everyone on our present staff.  Consistently great for six years running even with few runs scored for him resulting in a mediocre record.

     

    Sorry, Clay may be our ace but Garza is right there with him.  Stats can lie in a small sample not six years running like in Matt's case.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I still like Garza in our rotation

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to mudbugger's comment:

     

    I would pass on Garza......but if the Sox did trade for him, I hope its a package of B level prospects.

    I agree with the majority that Garza would be the equivalant to a back end of the rotation addition, which the Red Sox really don't need.  I would rather see those prospects go get someone like Fransico Rodriguez for an addition to the bullpen.  

    I don't think with the amount of teams in the pennant race that any team would be able to acqiure a top of the rotation type of pitcher.

    I wouldnt mind trading trading a combination of the "A" level prospects for someone like Stanton from Miami, but am more than comfortable that the depth in the farm system will be enough for the remander of the season.

     I have to laugh a bit when some of you consider Garza a "back of the rotation pitcher" if he came to Boston.  His career WHIP clearly shows he has been better than everyone on our present staff.  Consistently great for six years running even with few runs scored for him resulting in a mediocre record.

     

    Sorry, Clay may be our ace but Garza is right there with him.  Stats can lie in a small sample not six years running like in Matt's case.

     

    \


     

    I don't see garza as a bottom of rotation starter either, but I think a little context is needed here:

    1) His WHIP has to be adjusted when comparing to AL starters who face a DH most of the games. (Garza's AL WHIP is 1.315. His NL WHIP is 1.212.

     

    2) His "experience vs the AL East" is not  at all what some think it is or projects to be. A lot of his success vs the AL East came against Boston. That causes two things: one, he won't be facing Boston if we trade for him, and two, the make-up of these teams are not what they were when he was with TB and MN.

      Vs. NY  1-4  4.48

      Vs Bal  9-1  3.03 (when they stunk)

      Vs Tor  6-6  2.14 (when they were not always very good)

     

    3) Take away his one playoff game ve Boston, and here is his playoff record:

    18 IP 10 ER (5.00 ERA) 18 hits and 8 BB (1.444 WHIP) with 15 Ks. 

     

    4) Our position on how good he is may be effected by how well he did against us, especially in the playoffs.

      Reg season  7-4  3.83

      Playoffs        2-0  1.38 (14Ks in 13 IP)

     
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