I think the pitching is going to be good

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    S. Drew will do his part in making sure the staff ERA is much higher that it would be if Iglesias was the SS.

    Lester, Buch and Doubrant should be quite adequate starters. Tazawa has the potential to provide quality innings as a starter. Dumpster is going to get lit up, bigtime. Lackey should be able to provide adquate bottom of the rotation innings.

    If the Red Sox use Ross a lot, and go with Iglesias at SS, I thiink the overall starters plus pen arms pitching staff will be adequate, given park and division factor. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Think we should give S.Drew a chance at least. The biggest thing most knuckleheads on this board have is that he's JD's brother? He'll be better than anything we had a SS last year. As for Iglesias, while not the biggest guy in the world, can he hit at least his weight before everyone wants to make him the starting SS. Have no problem w/ Ross getting alot of time behind the plate this year. IMO one of the reasons the staff has done so terribly recently was the retirement of Tek. While nice to have a catcher who hits 25 Hr's, his most important job is managing the pitching staff. Salty has always been a guy it seems that all the pitchers have better numbers throwing to the other catcher, has to be a reason.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    Good thread ... guarded optimism is probably the best position.  I think Farrell will make big difference.  BV sure did - to my utter surprise.  The wrong way...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    Pitchers are "creatures of habit". With that said, its kinda hard to get into consistent productive habits when you have 3 pitching coaches in 2 years all telling you different things. That along with the "toxic" clubhouse atmosphere and its no wonder these guys arent performing up to their capabilities.

    Jon Lester was talked about as an "Ace" and in cy young talks almost yearly before 2012. I wonder why most believe hes more the guy that pitched in 2012 than the guy the 4 years prior. Hes 28 and talked about as if hes on the downside of his career.

    Knowing that they will have a familiar face managing the team who should be here for a few years should help them.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    I wonder why most believe hes [Lester] more the guy that pitched in 2012 than the guy the 4 years prior.

    I think because people blamed him for a poor Spetember in 2011, and maybe they are worried that his battle with Cancer might have taken something out of his career longevity.

    I expect Lester to be close to his career norm as he pitches in his prime. I am not expecting his best year, but it could happen.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    Jon Lester was talked about as an "Ace" and in cy young talks almost yearly before 2012. I wonder why most believe hes more the guy that pitched in 2012 than the guy the 4 years prior. Hes 28 and talked about as if hes on the downside of his career.

    [/QUOTE]

    Here are two conflicting ways of looking at the recent Lester:

    1.  He was unlucky in 2012,  xFIP was 3.82 exactly a full run lower than his ERA. (ESPN link above)

    2.  his strikeout rate may have finally caught up to his league average SwStk% the last two years, which is cause for serious concern.  (Fangraphs)  K% '10 , '11, '12:  26,  23,  19

    While the FGhs article points out his swing and miss % has dropped off, there are some top pitchers with similar numbers.

    David Price and Lester had  similar peripheral stats in 2012, which is why Bill James expects them to be about the same in 2013.

    FIP 2013 James:

    JL   3.62      DP  3.34

     

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Jon Lester was talked about as an "Ace" and in cy young talks almost yearly before 2012. I wonder why most believe hes more the guy that pitched in 2012 than the guy the 4 years prior. Hes 28 and talked about as if hes on the downside of his career.


    To be precise, Jon Lester turned 29 years old on Monday.

    I would not be surprised if Lester regained ace status this year.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Helloitsmeagain. Show Helloitsmeagain's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to tom-uk's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Jon Lester was talked about as an "Ace" and in cy young talks almost yearly before 2012. I wonder why most believe hes more the guy that pitched in 2012 than the guy the 4 years prior. Hes 28 and talked about as if hes on the downside of his career.

    [/QUOTE]

    Here are two conflicting ways of looking at the recent Lester:

    1.  He was unlucky in 2012,  xFIP was 3.82 exactly a full run lower than his ERA. (ESPN link above)

    2.  his strikeout rate may have finally caught up to his league average SwStk% the last two years, which is cause for serious concern.  (Fangraphs)  K% '10 , '11, '12:  26,  23,  19

    While the FGhs article points out his swing and miss % has dropped off, there are some top pitchers with similar numbers.

    David Price and Lester had  similar peripheral stats in 2012, which is why Bill James expects them to be about the same in 2013.

    FIP 2013 James:

    JL   3.62      DP  3.34

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Careful or hill will be reporting you to the plagiarism police.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to Helloitsmeagain's comment:

    Careful or hill will be reporting you to the plagiarism police.

    Please study up on fair use:

    http://plagiarism.org/ask-the-experts/faq/

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    Lester is about as close now to being an ace as he was when he signed. 

    Who else thinks he's an ace other than hometown , die hard Sox fans?

    Lester has lost it. Put him up as trade bait--what would expect to get for him? He is in a "Show Me" status.  I would love to see Lester turn the corner and be an ace--until he does, the closest guy we have as a potential ace is Ryan Dempster. Lester, Buch, Doubie will hopefully watch Ryan very closely and track his pitch selection and learn some valuable lessons from him.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to MadMc44's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Lester is about as close now to being an ace as he was when he signed. 

    Who else thinks he's an ace other than hometown , die hard Sox fans?

    Lester has lost it. Put him up as trade bait--what would expect to get for him? He is in a "Show Me" status.  I would love to see Lester turn the corner and be an ace--until he does, the closest guy we have as a potential ace is Ryan Dempster. Lester, Buch, Doubie will hopefully watch Ryan very closely and track his pitch selection and learn some valuable lessons from him.

    [/QUOTE]

    Trading Jon Lester right now would be a classic case of "selling low."  Never a good idea.  Let's see what he does now that he is reunited with Farrell. 

     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     I am very anxious to have a pitcher in our rotation that can be a #1

    Well, since you are pipe dreaming about Dumpster and "a #1" then it's obvious why you are anxious. You need to sober up. I'll be pleasantly surprised if Dumpster is a "good #3".

    Drew's been given a chance, for years. He is not a SS who makes pitching better. He is a SS who will make pitching worse. And I was a huge supporter of the reasonable value and fit that Drew provided over the course of his entire contract, relative to his Red Sox peers.

    [/QUOTE]


    Which Drew exactly, are you talking about?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    Which Drew exactly, are you talking about?

    I think he meant Nancy.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from sjddaj. Show sjddaj's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    Although it may have some factor, you don't really base a pitchers ERA and performance on the SS.  A pitcher has to pitch, and if he does, his stats will be good regardless of who the SS is.

    I am not going to bother to go back and look it up, but who was the SS for the few years when Lester was doing well?   Scutaro was one, who is just fair with the glove.  Lugo was probably another and we all know how horrible he was.  Didn't seem to bother Lester much though.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    Lugo had plus range to more than make up for his extra botches, but once he got hurt, he became horrible.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from sjddaj. Show sjddaj's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    During Lester's 4 good years he had Lugo, Jed Lowrie (when healthy), Nick Green, and Scutaro.

    None of these guys were anything to write home about defensively.  Yet Lester still did very good.  If Lester pitches the way he is capable of, and has in the past, the starting SS will make little difference.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    My concern with Lester is this. I think the umps gave him the Andy Petitte treatment after he came back from cancer. In other words he got that strike call when the pitch was 2 inches off the plate out of pity. Umps are human. Who didn't want to help Lester after what he went through, and recently his dad has gone through if I remember correctly. If he was irritable it could well be because of what his dad has been experiencing. He seems very close to his family. What kid who makes it all the way to the majors didn't get helped along the way by their Dad? I bet very few. It has to be affecting him.

    Anyway, a year or so ago he started complaining when he didn't get those calls. And the Umps noticed. The pendulum has swung. He basically has to shut up and not complain at all on calls now or he has no hope to get the favor of the umps back on his side. It may take time but that is his best course to take. 

    He needs to improve his conditioning some also. He does appear to have lost a little off his fastball but he should still have better stuff than Petitte had in his prime so he can still succeed in mlb. I wouldn't give up on him. He's not a bad guy. Wouldn't it be normal to come to expect those ump calls after you were given them earlier in your career? Everything points to him being a solid young man. A guy still worth rooting for. We need to have his back.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    i think im going to win the lottery....

     

    about the same isnt it?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My concern with Lester is this. I think the umps gave him the Andy Petitte treatment after he came back from cancer. In other words he got that strike call when the pitch was 2 inches off the plate out of pity. Umps are human. Who didn't want to help Lester after what he went through, and recently his dad has gone through if I remember correctly. If he was irritable it could well be because of what his dad has been experiencing. He seems very close to his family. What kid who makes it all the way to the majors didn't get helped along the way by their Dad? I bet very few. It has to be affecting him.

    Anyway, a year or so ago he started complaining when he didn't get those calls. And the Umps noticed. The pendulum has swung. He basically has to shut up and not complain at all on calls now or he has no hope to get the favor of the umps back on his side. It may take time but that is his best course to take. 

    He needs to improve his conditioning some also. He does appear to have lost a little off his fastball but he should still have better stuff than Petitte had in his prime so he can still succeed in mlb. I wouldn't give up on him. He's not a bad guy. Wouldn't it be normal to come to expect those ump calls after you were given them earlier in your career? Everything points to him being a solid young man. A guy still worth rooting for. We need to have his back.

    [/QUOTE]


    beckett really did do a great job mentoring the young pitchers, didnt he?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My concern with Lester is this. I think the umps gave him the Andy Petitte treatment after he came back from cancer. In other words he got that strike call when the pitch was 2 inches off the plate out of pity. Umps are human. Who didn't want to help Lester after what he went through, and recently his dad has gone through if I remember correctly. If he was irritable it could well be because of what his dad has been experiencing. He seems very close to his family. What kid who makes it all the way to the majors didn't get helped along the way by their Dad? I bet very few. It has to be affecting him.

    Anyway, a year or so ago he started complaining when he didn't get those calls. And the Umps noticed. The pendulum has swung. He basically has to shut up and not complain at all on calls now or he has no hope to get the favor of the umps back on his side. It may take time but that is his best course to take. 

    He needs to improve his conditioning some also. He does appear to have lost a little off his fastball but he should still have better stuff than Petitte had in his prime so he can still succeed in mlb. I wouldn't give up on him. He's not a bad guy. Wouldn't it be normal to come to expect those ump calls after you were given them earlier in your career? Everything points to him being a solid young man. A guy still worth rooting for. We need to have his back.

    [/QUOTE]


    beckett really did do a great job mentoring the young pitchers, didnt he?

    [/QUOTE]

    Everything is Beckett's fault. We should win a ring this year just because he is now gone, right? 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    Beckett was the MAIN problem that led to the 2011 collapse and the disintergration of the starting staff in 2012....

    What part of that isnt true Moon?

    the fact that we had to give away our most productive player to package a deal to get this moron out of town doesnt bother you?

     

    thats how bad he was...yes

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    I'll be pleasantly surprised if Dumpster is a "good #3".

    No, you won't. You will produce some stat to show he is really not doing as good as it appears.

    It will remind me of when you claimed Crisp was doing better than Ellsbury in 2011, because he was leading the league in triples in early June.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My concern with Lester is this. I think the umps gave him the Andy Petitte treatment after he came back from cancer. In other words he got that strike call when the pitch was 2 inches off the plate out of pity. Umps are human. Who didn't want to help Lester after what he went through, and recently his dad has gone through if I remember correctly. If he was irritable it could well be because of what his dad has been experiencing. He seems very close to his family. What kid who makes it all the way to the majors didn't get helped along the way by their Dad? I bet very few. It has to be affecting him.

    Anyway, a year or so ago he started complaining when he didn't get those calls. And the Umps noticed. The pendulum has swung. He basically has to shut up and not complain at all on calls now or he has no hope to get the favor of the umps back on his side. It may take time but that is his best course to take. 

    He needs to improve his conditioning some also. He does appear to have lost a little off his fastball but he should still have better stuff than Petitte had in his prime so he can still succeed in mlb. I wouldn't give up on him. He's not a bad guy. Wouldn't it be normal to come to expect those ump calls after you were given them earlier in your career? Everything points to him being a solid young man. A guy still worth rooting for. We need to have his back.

    [/QUOTE]


    beckett really did do a great job mentoring the young pitchers, didnt he?

    [/QUOTE]


    Seriously geo, Beckett pitches for the Dodgers now. Shouldn't you be b!tching about him on a Dodgers' board?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My concern with Lester is this. I think the umps gave him the Andy Petitte treatment after he came back from cancer. In other words he got that strike call when the pitch was 2 inches off the plate out of pity. Umps are human. Who didn't want to help Lester after what he went through, and recently his dad has gone through if I remember correctly. If he was irritable it could well be because of what his dad has been experiencing. He seems very close to his family. What kid who makes it all the way to the majors didn't get helped along the way by their Dad? I bet very few. It has to be affecting him.

    Anyway, a year or so ago he started complaining when he didn't get those calls. And the Umps noticed. The pendulum has swung. He basically has to shut up and not complain at all on calls now or he has no hope to get the favor of the umps back on his side. It may take time but that is his best course to take. 

    He needs to improve his conditioning some also. He does appear to have lost a little off his fastball but he should still have better stuff than Petitte had in his prime so he can still succeed in mlb. I wouldn't give up on him. He's not a bad guy. Wouldn't it be normal to come to expect those ump calls after you were given them earlier in your career? Everything points to him being a solid young man. A guy still worth rooting for. We need to have his back.

    [/QUOTE]


    beckett really did do a great job mentoring the young pitchers, didnt he?

    [/QUOTE]


    Seriously geo, Beckett pitches for the Dodgers now. Shouldn't you be b!tching about him on a Dodgers' board?

    i can hate him from here on bdc....thanks for the invite tho carnie..lol


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Beckett was the MAIN problem that led to the 2011 collapse and the disintergration of the starting staff in 2012....

    What part of that isnt true Moon?

    the fact that we had to give away our most productive player to package a deal to get this moron out of town doesnt bother you?

     

    thats how bad he was...yes

    [/QUOTE]

    Beckett nearly singlehandedly carried us through the 2007 playoffs. His influence then was catostrophic, right?

    To think his teammates really were so negatively effected by his antics is foolish. (Plus, how are you so sure, it was them negatively influencing him? Just because he was the older guy?)

    To me, the Dodger trade was more about dumping Crawford's 5 years left than Beckett's 2 years left. We also dumped Punto. Losing AGon hurt, but losing his $20M contract minimized the loss somewhat (how we spent some of it this winter not withstanding). 

    Beckett would have been much easier to deal away individually than CC. Yes, we'd have had to pay part of his deal, but it would have been much less than CC's.

    Plus, why do you bash Ben so much, but then agree with the notion that trading Beckett was the sole reason he included AGon? Are you agreeing that Ben wanted Beckett out that badly? Does that mean you agreed with Ben on 1 thing?

     
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