I think the pitching is going to be good

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    Beckett was the MAIN problem that led to the 2011 collapse and the disintergration of the starting staff in 2012....

    What part of that isnt true Moon?

    the fact that we had to give away our most productive player to package a deal to get this moron out of town doesnt bother you?

     

    thats how bad he was...yes



    Beckett nearly singlehandedly carried us through the 2007 playoffs. His influence then was catostrophic, right?

    To think his teammates really were so negatively effected by his antics is foolish. (Plus, how are you so sure, it was them negatively influencing him? Just because he was the older guy?)

    To me, the Dodger trade was more about dumping Crawford's 5 years left than Beckett's 2 years left. We also dumped Punto. Losing AGon hurt, but losing his $20M contract minimized the loss somewhat (how we spent some of it this winter not withstanding). 

    Beckett would have been much easier to deal away individually than CC. Yes, we'd have had to pay part of his deal, but it would have been much less than CC's.

    Plus, why do you bash Ben so much, but then agree with the notion that trading Beckett was the sole reason he included AGon? Are you agreeing that Ben wanted Beckett out that badly? Does that mean you agreed with Ben on 1 thing?




    heck yea i love the ben trade...the best thing he has ever done...ive only said that about a million times moon...i know im not a huge stat guy but dam pay some attention to what i have to say - it might be right from time to time ya know...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to georom4's comment:

    Beckett was the MAIN problem that led to the 2011 collapse and the disintergration of the starting staff in 2012....

    What part of that isnt true Moon?

    the fact that we had to give away our most productive player to package a deal to get this moron out of town doesnt bother you?

     

    thats how bad he was...yes


    If Adrian Gonzalez wasn't traded to the Dodgers in August, he would have been traded this offseason.  That is a fact and it has nothing to do with Josh Beckett.

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    Okay.

    Now let's be serious.

    The bullpen is maybe above average, "awesome" is a bit of a stretch.

    The rotation is average at best.

    When Lester and Buchholz are your best, you have problems. When you are counting on pitchers like Dempster and Lackey to have career seasons ( which is what it will take), you have problems.

    When you think that bringing back a former pitching coach as your manager is like a magic spell....you are in dreamland.

    Do I think the pitching will be "better?"...yes. Why because losers , Matsuzaka and Beckett are gone. That's the good news. The bad news is ...it's not enough.



    You never know with bullpens, but this one has the makings to be great.  The Uehara signing has kind of flown under the radar, but look at his stats - the man's un-hittable, and he never walks a batter.  He should be our get out of a jam reliever.  Bailey and Hanrahan are all-stars.  If last year was an indication of what Tazawa and Miller will give you, that's a very impressive pen.  Now if in addition to all that, Bard or De la Rosa can touch 98 consistently again, you may have the best pen in the big leagues.  

    That right there takes a ton of pressure off the starters - Dempster is a six-inning pitcher, and we shouldn't expect much more from Lackey coming off surgery.  Lester, Buch & Doubront can give you seven or eight, if necessary, but have a ton of backup coming out of that bullpen.

    I think there's good cause to be cautiously optimistic.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from sjddaj. Show sjddaj's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    Nice post slomag.

    I don't buy the umps giving Lester a break because of his cancer.  "MAYBE" you have some warrant if it was just 1 year.  But, Lester pitched very good for 4 years.

    I am sure that the umps weren't feeling 4 years later "hey, lets give this guy a break" because of something from 4 years prior.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to sjddaj's comment:

    Nice post slomag.

    I don't buy the umps giving Lester a break because of his cancer.  "MAYBE" you have some warrant if it was just 1 year.  But, Lester pitched very good for 4 years.

    I am sure that the umps weren't feeling 4 years later "hey, lets give this guy a break" because of something from 4 years prior.

     



    Unless Lester stops arguing with the umps, he may not ever get any close calls.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    Umps get a book on young guys and they act accordingly. They talk in the locker room and at the bar later on. Lester seems like a really nice kid and has been stepping up to help others with Cancer. All this is part of the game. Some guys get the Micahel Jordan treatment even in baseball. It clearly happens. As has been the case for many years for Christian goody goody Andy Petitte and of course others. Not to disparage Petitte because of his faith. There is nothing wrong with his apparently sincere christian faith and he seems like a very nice guy. Just saying it's quite a coincidence that he also gets those outside corner calls regularly. As most veterans do to a degree unless the umps are not fans of his game. All this is just normal human behavior. The umps want to support the good guys, want to support the positive roll models in baseball. The great comeback stories....etc. 

    Ergo the converse with bad boy types. The umps have a role in how the product is packaged and I'm pretty sure they at least make some attempts to be positive contributors to baseball's image.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    Well said. I do not think it is too late for Lester to change his relationship with the umps and turn things around.

    I also do not think the umps are his biggest problem.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    Okay.

    Now let's be serious.

    The bullpen is maybe above average, "awesome" is a bit of a stretch.

    The rotation is average at best.

    When Lester and Buchholz are your best, you have problems. When you are counting on pitchers like Dempster and Lackey to have career seasons ( which is what it will take), you have problems.

    When you think that bringing back a former pitching coach as your manager is like a magic spell....you are in dreamland.

    Do I think the pitching will be "better?"...yes. Why because losers , Matsuzaka and Beckett are gone. That's the good news. The bad news is ...it's not enough.



    You never know with bullpens, but this one has the makings to be great.  The Uehara signing has kind of flown under the radar, but look at his stats - the man's un-hittable, and he never walks a batter.  He should be our get out of a jam reliever.  Bailey and Hanrahan are all-stars.  If last year was an indication of what Tazawa and Miller will give you, that's a very impressive pen.  Now if in addition to all that, Bard or De la Rosa can touch 98 consistently again, you may have the best pen in the big leagues.  

    That right there takes a ton of pressure off the starters - Dempster is a six-inning pitcher, and we shouldn't expect much more from Lackey coming off surgery.  Lester, Buch & Doubront can give you seven or eight, if necessary, but have a ton of backup coming out of that bullpen.

    I think there's good cause to be cautiously optimistic.




    The bullpen might turn out to be great, but that will not last long if they consistently have to pitch 3-5 innings a game. Of our starting rotation I can see only Buchholtz and Lester being able to pitch more than six innings with any consistency without getting shelled repeatedly.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I also do not think the umps are his biggest problem.


    Lester seemed to be his own biggest problem from what I saw last year. Meaning he wouldn't get a close call and would let get that inside his head instead of focussing on making his next pitch. Hopefully Farrell and Nieves can help him with that. That and not being quite so cutter happy.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    Okay.

    Now let's be serious.

    The bullpen is maybe above average, "awesome" is a bit of a stretch.

    The rotation is average at best.

    When Lester and Buchholz are your best, you have problems. When you are counting on pitchers like Dempster and Lackey to have career seasons ( which is what it will take), you have problems.

    When you think that bringing back a former pitching coach as your manager is like a magic spell....you are in dreamland.

    Do I think the pitching will be "better?"...yes. Why because losers , Matsuzaka and Beckett are gone. That's the good news. The bad news is ...it's not enough.



    You never know with bullpens, but this one has the makings to be great.  The Uehara signing has kind of flown under the radar, but look at his stats - the man's un-hittable, and he never walks a batter.  He should be our get out of a jam reliever.  Bailey and Hanrahan are all-stars.  If last year was an indication of what Tazawa and Miller will give you, that's a very impressive pen.  Now if in addition to all that, Bard or De la Rosa can touch 98 consistently again, you may have the best pen in the big leagues.  

    That right there takes a ton of pressure off the starters - Dempster is a six-inning pitcher, and we shouldn't expect much more from Lackey coming off surgery.  Lester, Buch & Doubront can give you seven or eight, if necessary, but have a ton of backup coming out of that bullpen.

    I think there's good cause to be cautiously optimistic.




    The bullpen might turn out to be great, but that will not last long if they consistently have to pitch 3-5 innings a game. Of our starting rotation I can see only Buchholtz and Lester being able to pitch more than six innings with any consistency without getting shelled repeatedly.



    I don't think that's true - on most staffs, you have a handful of bullpen arms that are just fillers for blowouts and experimenting.  Every guy in this pen has proven talent - if you have to give Bailey, Uehara, Miller, Hanrahan & Tazawa a rest, you still have Breslow, Mortensen, Aceves & Morales to pick up the slack.  There aren't going to be a lot of relief appearances where a guy can't get anybody out, hits the shower, and burns another arm.

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    Okay.

    Now let's be serious.

    The bullpen is maybe above average, "awesome" is a bit of a stretch.

    The rotation is average at best.

    When Lester and Buchholz are your best, you have problems. When you are counting on pitchers like Dempster and Lackey to have career seasons ( which is what it will take), you have problems.

    When you think that bringing back a former pitching coach as your manager is like a magic spell....you are in dreamland.

    Do I think the pitching will be "better?"...yes. Why because losers , Matsuzaka and Beckett are gone. That's the good news. The bad news is ...it's not enough.



    You never know with bullpens, but this one has the makings to be great.  The Uehara signing has kind of flown under the radar, but look at his stats - the man's un-hittable, and he never walks a batter.  He should be our get out of a jam reliever.  Bailey and Hanrahan are all-stars.  If last year was an indication of what Tazawa and Miller will give you, that's a very impressive pen.  Now if in addition to all that, Bard or De la Rosa can touch 98 consistently again, you may have the best pen in the big leagues.  

    That right there takes a ton of pressure off the starters - Dempster is a six-inning pitcher, and we shouldn't expect much more from Lackey coming off surgery.  Lester, Buch & Doubront can give you seven or eight, if necessary, but have a ton of backup coming out of that bullpen.

    I think there's good cause to be cautiously optimistic.




    The bullpen might turn out to be great, but that will not last long if they consistently have to pitch 3-5 innings a game. Of our starting rotation I can see only Buchholtz and Lester being able to pitch more than six innings with any consistency without getting shelled repeatedly.



    I don't think that's true - on most staffs, you have a handful of bullpen arms that are just fillers for blowouts and experimenting.  Every guy in this pen has proven talent - if you have to give Bailey, Uehara, Miller, Hanrahan & Tazawa a rest, you still have Breslow, Mortensen, Aceves & Morales to pick up the slack.  There aren't going to be a lot of relief appearances where a guy can't get anybody out, hits the shower, and burns another arm.

     

     



    Any bullpen that is consistently overused is going to get burned out. It all begins for a team with great starting pitching. If that falters and the pen has to come in to pitch 3-5 innings with any regularity they WILL get burned out by midseason. Also, the pen typically has 8 pitchers, not 9 as you listed. Its just not a manageable situation. The only solution is to let some of the SP stay in the game and get hammered to save the pen.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    Okay.

    Now let's be serious.

    The bullpen is maybe above average, "awesome" is a bit of a stretch.

    The rotation is average at best.

    When Lester and Buchholz are your best, you have problems. When you are counting on pitchers like Dempster and Lackey to have career seasons ( which is what it will take), you have problems.

    When you think that bringing back a former pitching coach as your manager is like a magic spell....you are in dreamland.

    Do I think the pitching will be "better?"...yes. Why because losers , Matsuzaka and Beckett are gone. That's the good news. The bad news is ...it's not enough.



    You never know with bullpens, but this one has the makings to be great.  The Uehara signing has kind of flown under the radar, but look at his stats - the man's un-hittable, and he never walks a batter.  He should be our get out of a jam reliever.  Bailey and Hanrahan are all-stars.  If last year was an indication of what Tazawa and Miller will give you, that's a very impressive pen.  Now if in addition to all that, Bard or De la Rosa can touch 98 consistently again, you may have the best pen in the big leagues.  

    That right there takes a ton of pressure off the starters - Dempster is a six-inning pitcher, and we shouldn't expect much more from Lackey coming off surgery.  Lester, Buch & Doubront can give you seven or eight, if necessary, but have a ton of backup coming out of that bullpen.

    I think there's good cause to be cautiously optimistic.




    The bullpen might turn out to be great, but that will not last long if they consistently have to pitch 3-5 innings a game. Of our starting rotation I can see only Buchholtz and Lester being able to pitch more than six innings with any consistency without getting shelled repeatedly.



    I don't think that's true - on most staffs, you have a handful of bullpen arms that are just fillers for blowouts and experimenting.  Every guy in this pen has proven talent - if you have to give Bailey, Uehara, Miller, Hanrahan & Tazawa a rest, you still have Breslow, Mortensen, Aceves & Morales to pick up the slack.  There aren't going to be a lot of relief appearances where a guy can't get anybody out, hits the shower, and burns another arm.

     

     



    Any bullpen that is consistently overused is going to get burned out. It all begins for a team with great starting pitching. If that falters and the pen has to come in to pitch 3-5 innings with any regularity they WILL get burned out by midseason. Also, the pen typically has 8 pitchers, not 9 as you listed. Its just not a manageable situation. The only solution is to let some of the SP stay in the game and get hammered to save the pen.



    Look at the 2011 Yankees as a model - Garcia, Colon & Nova rarely pitched beyond the sixth inning.  Rivera, Soriano, Logan, Wade, Noesi & Ayala all had 40+ innings out the pen. If our starters get shelled regularly, I agree with you - that's too much strain on the pen.  If they make it through five or six, it can be done succesfully.

    Good point on the number of relievers - something will have to be done before the season begins.  Will Mortensen and Bard start in AAA?  Will Aceves be traded?

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    Okay.

    Now let's be serious.

    The bullpen is maybe above average, "awesome" is a bit of a stretch.

    The rotation is average at best.

    When Lester and Buchholz are your best, you have problems. When you are counting on pitchers like Dempster and Lackey to have career seasons ( which is what it will take), you have problems.

    When you think that bringing back a former pitching coach as your manager is like a magic spell....you are in dreamland.

    Do I think the pitching will be "better?"...yes. Why because losers , Matsuzaka and Beckett are gone. That's the good news. The bad news is ...it's not enough.



    You never know with bullpens, but this one has the makings to be great.  The Uehara signing has kind of flown under the radar, but look at his stats - the man's un-hittable, and he never walks a batter.  He should be our get out of a jam reliever.  Bailey and Hanrahan are all-stars.  If last year was an indication of what Tazawa and Miller will give you, that's a very impressive pen.  Now if in addition to all that, Bard or De la Rosa can touch 98 consistently again, you may have the best pen in the big leagues.  

    That right there takes a ton of pressure off the starters - Dempster is a six-inning pitcher, and we shouldn't expect much more from Lackey coming off surgery.  Lester, Buch & Doubront can give you seven or eight, if necessary, but have a ton of backup coming out of that bullpen.

    I think there's good cause to be cautiously optimistic.




    The bullpen might turn out to be great, but that will not last long if they consistently have to pitch 3-5 innings a game. Of our starting rotation I can see only Buchholtz and Lester being able to pitch more than six innings with any consistency without getting shelled repeatedly.



    I don't think that's true - on most staffs, you have a handful of bullpen arms that are just fillers for blowouts and experimenting.  Every guy in this pen has proven talent - if you have to give Bailey, Uehara, Miller, Hanrahan & Tazawa a rest, you still have Breslow, Mortensen, Aceves & Morales to pick up the slack.  There aren't going to be a lot of relief appearances where a guy can't get anybody out, hits the shower, and burns another arm.

     

     



    Any bullpen that is consistently overused is going to get burned out. It all begins for a team with great starting pitching. If that falters and the pen has to come in to pitch 3-5 innings with any regularity they WILL get burned out by midseason. Also, the pen typically has 8 pitchers, not 9 as you listed. Its just not a manageable situation. The only solution is to let some of the SP stay in the game and get hammered to save the pen.



    Look at the 2011 Yankees as a model - Garcia, Colon & Nova rarely pitched beyond the sixth inning.  Rivera, Soriano, Logan, Wade, Noesi & Ayala all had 40+ innings out the pen. If our starters get shelled regularly, I agree with you - that's too much strain on the pen.  If they make it through five or six, it can be done succesfully.

    Good point on the number of relievers - something will have to be done before the season begins.  Will Mortensen and Bard start in AAA?  Will Aceves be traded?

     




    mortenson is out of options and deserves to be on the 25man. Bard has an option left and i've heard conflicting reports on the number of Tazawas options.. but he also deserves to be on the 25 man.. going to be interesting to see how the pen shakes out. (no matter what it will be a monster BP)

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from joyceand. Show joyceand's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    I'm not a doubter as such but I think the 2013 performances of the big 3 of Lester, Buch and Lackey are extremely difficult to predict.  I can see Lester and Buch each pitching to a 3.5 ERA but it won't shock me if one or both is more like 4.5.  As for Lackey I'm optimistic he can come in around 4 but again I won't be shocked if it's 5.5.




    Buchholz & Lester have been inconsistent, I have no faith in Lackey, I don't know Dempster well enough to pass an opinion, and Doubront is a decent 4-5 man.  (And as an aside, I'm not thrilled with their off-season pick-ups of Napoli, Victorino, and Stephen Drew).  I see mediocrity for '13, the game will be for entertainment onliy for me, I realistically don't expect a post-season appearance and if there is one it will probably be short-lived.  JMO.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I think the pitching is going to be good

    mortenson is out of options and deserves to be on the 25man. Bard has an option left and i've heard conflicting reports on the number of Tazawas options.. but he also deserves to be on the 25 man.. going to be interesting to see how the pen shakes out. (no matter what it will be a monster BP)

    According to Soxprospects.com, our only pitchers with options are:

    Buch 1

    Taz  1

    Carp 1

    Bard 2

    Aceves 1

    Britton 2

    Webster 3

    de la Rosa 3

    Wright 3

    Bailey 3

    Since I'd love to see Tazawa as a starter, I think it might make sense to start him in AAA and let Mortensen be on the 25-man roster. I hate to leave one of our best arms off the 25 man roster, but if I thought we had a legitimate chance to win a ring, I'd trade someone to make room for Taz.

    Bard should start in AAA unless he lights up ST and someone is on the DL or more deserving of AAA.

     

     
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