if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from fourrings. Show fourrings's posts

    if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    why not use him with 2 outs and 2 lefties in a row coming up? instead Tito goes to Pap and gets burned, now he has no Pap tonite. it never works when he brings pap in the 8th for some reason
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    I was thinking the same thing last night..Wheres Hill with 2 lefties? If you can, should always save paps for 9th inning only..Tito had choices last night. Im not a Francona basher in the least, but this move was puzzling..
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    I agree to a point--tying run on second--you need an out.
    Kubel is 3 for 8 against Pap--I agree with Tito--but just to get that out.
    Would Kubel have been less comfy with a lefty out there, perhaps. He's a good hitter, .340, I think you go with your best at that moment--Pap for the one out.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    I can see your point Mac. I wasnt killing Tito, just wondering what his thought process was. With Kubel hitting .340, I imagine hes hitting pretty much everyone so far. I can see bringing in Paps. Hill has been lights out though..either way, we won...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    I agree.  I also might have kept Aceves in for Kubel.  Number one, Paps had not handled Kubel all that well in the past.  Number two, one way to disrupt a hot hitter, IMO, is to show him something he is not used to seeing.  Hill and his sidearm delivery provide just that.  Aceves also fit that scenario, to my way of thinking.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    It is a valid question.  However, I have spent my life watching Mo Rivera get 4 out saves.  If Pap is your guy, he should be able to get that out.  And it was not exactly a rocket for a hit.  Tito went with his man to try and protect a 1 run lead.  If the score was 2-0, it would have been handled just as you describe.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from playball01. Show playball01's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    Going to your best bullpen arm for a 4 out save was the correct choice. Francona "Was Not" burned by going to Papelbon in the 8th. Kubel had a solid at bat against Papelbon's best!

    Most other hitters would probably have either struck out or hit a weak grounder based on Paps' array of thrown pitches. There was nothing that Papelbon could have done differently under the situation and no evidence to suggest that any other reliever would have been able to retire the hot Kubel. The at bat was certainly a game of cat and mouse and the mouse was luckier..........enough said.

    Papelbon nor Francona have nothing to second guess under the circumstances.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fourrings. Show fourrings's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    he did get burned, he gave up the game tying hit ( i know it was a bloop) but now he is unavailable tonite.  i dont bash francona i just think at that moment maybe hill was a better option and yes i know they won anyway but that was not my point. i would like to know in early may if we have a reliable lefty out of the pen too.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    I had no problem with it. I'd rather have a known commodity in that situation, especially when Paps had been lights out all year.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

                                 "T" chickened out...Why?....He was afraid to lose with anyone other than PAP. He figured if Aceves or Hill gives it up he'd hear it from the nay sayers. Over the long haul, ( the rest of the season ), These are disaster moves. He goes for RH Pitcher against LH batter with LH Hill ready? If he goes to Hill and Hill gives it up O.K. we can handle that, but PAPS there? ..No Way.                                       A couple of days ago, a "T" lover posted that "T" has a computer in the dugout that gives him updated hitter/pitcher data that enables "T" to make the best judgement call when necessary. I don't think he reads it. He goes by the seat of his pants and thats it . Maybe he figured he'll close with Bard if PAPs is not available tonight. Who can argue if PAPS gives it up and sox lose. "T" would say, " I went with my best it didn't work out." "T" it's time to take off the skirt.                                             
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    I find it funny he goes with his best for the win and it does not work so the issue is he is lost for tonight???
    Even if he had gotten the out and 3 more would he not have been unavailable tonight as well?
    If he only pitched the 9th and got 3 would he still be unavailable tonight?

    So how did Terry get burned????

    BTW Paps has pitched 1 inning on May 1st, 3rd, 4th and 7th and 1 1/3 the 9th.
    Lester is pitching tonight and Bard or Albers are available
    So is Paps really not available tonight or did Terry play it right because he does have the others ready?
    They also hve Thursday off....

    Many of you are basing all of your arguments every day about one game or one player and how Terry used or did not use his team.

    It is not just about one player or one game you need to look at the whole staff/team and the previous 3 games as well as what is coming down the road.

    Not only that not one person here knows what is going on in the clubhouse.
    As has been written the flu has been floating around the team. Maybe some were unavailable last night because of that or other conditions that don't require a DL stint but make a player unavailable that day.

    Too many arguments here are based upon an extremely myopic view of the team, players, management and baseball.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from playball01. Show playball01's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    In Response to Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th:
    [QUOTE]he did get burned, he gave up the game tying hit ( i know it was a bloop) but now he is unavailable tonite.  i dont bash francona i just think at that moment maybe hill was a better option and yes i know they won anyway but that was not my point. i would like to know in early may if we have a reliable lefty out of the pen too.
    Posted by fourrings[/QUOTE]

    I see a pretty huge assumption in that Papelbon can't pitch on back to back days, if needed, and that Papelbon would be called tonight. You play to win the current game, not tomorrow's.

    If tonight's game comes down to needing a closer and Papelbon's lack of availability is the difference maker then your argument would have more credibility but not until after tonight's game is it worth debating the decision any further.

    If tonight's game turns out to be a blow out, one way or the other, or Hill is called in to a close game and gets the win/loss/save then this whole thread becomes a moot point anyway.

    A manager, in most instances, makes decisions to win games today........not tomorrow.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

                               JimfromFlorida........Actually it is all about 1 game. The game you're playing in the present time. Let's look at it from what "T" sees. We're O.K. up to runner on 2nd.He,"T" sees the leftys coming up for Twins and Hill is ready. that much is a given. If he's going to go to PAP for a 4-out save why is Hill up?He's up because he should be up to pitch to the lefty's in the twins lineup that are coming up. What did he see on his dugout computer screen that would suggest  PAP was a lock to get Kubel? Zero, nothing, he saw no good options for the PAP /Kubel matchup...result, tie game. It's so much easier to lose with your best pitcher in a key situation than go to the BP for a match-up reliever, a relative unknown. If this is a key playoff game, win you're in - lose you're out, this is how "T" is going to play it. This will be his Grady Little moment or his Don Zimmer moment. That's how these guys think and play. That's all they know. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    I think going to your closer for a 4 out save in a 1-0 game is by the book.  However, it really does seem like Pap is the poster-child modern closer who just can't quite get it done if its not the ninth.  Francona was right to bring him in in that spot, but I cringed as Pap trotted out of the pen outside of his security blanket ninth inning ...
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    In Response to Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th:
    [QUOTE]                           JimfromFlorida........Actually it is all about 1 game. The game you're playing in the present time. Let's look at it from what "T" sees. We're O.K. up to runner on 2nd.He,"T" sees the leftys coming up for Twins and Hill is ready. that much is a given. If he's going to go to PAP for a 4-out save why is Hill up?He's up because he should be up to pitch to the lefty's in the twins lineup that are coming up. What did he see on his dugout computer screen that would suggest  PAP was a lock to get Kubel? Zero, nothing, he saw no good options for the PAP /Kubel matchup...result, tie game. It's so much easier to lose with your best pitcher in a key situation than go to the BP for a match-up reliever, a relative unknown. If this is a key playoff game, win you're in - lose you're out, this is how "T" is going to play it. This will be his Grady Little moment or his Don Zimmer moment. That's how these guys think and play. That's all they know. 
    Posted by eggplants[/QUOTE]


    Eggs that is your problem it is not about one game.
     
    It is also about what you don't know or see.
    It is about a group of games as I stated.
    Maybe Hill was up to see if he could go but he could not because he had the flu as have other players recently.
    You do NOT know all the circumstances and to say your's is the best scenario because of just what you see is ludicrous. To assume you are right and not take into other scenarios is wrong and dumb.

    Regardless you would always go with the lefty matchup even when your BEST relief pitcher is ready and has had a day off and only pitched every other day all month? I don't care if he was up and throwing. That happens nearly every day in every game where a guy gets up and throws but does not get into the game.
    It is about the RS BEST relief pitcher being ready to go.

    Gees if he went with Hill and they lost there would be far more posters ragging on him for not having Paps come in on a full days rest.
    BTW Paps is still available for both games in Toronto since they have Thursday off.

    It is a damned if you do and a damned if you don't for Terry.

    And "That's all they know." is far more than what anyone of us will ever know.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tallcoolone. Show tallcoolone's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    actually, i have no problem going with PAPS with 2 outs in the 8th.
    it was a big game for the SOX to win and that was the best percentage move.
    hopefully, the way the SOX won last night will provide them with momentum on the road.
    crawford made a lot of friends last night at FENWAY.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from softlawRS. Show softlawRS's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    Why not go with Wakefield?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    In Response to Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th:
    [QUOTE]Why not go with Wakefield?
    Posted by softlawRS[/QUOTE]

    you're a funny guy
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from softlawRS. Show softlawRS's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    Why not give the ball to the #3 best pitcher in Red Sox history, in any tough situation?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

    I watched the game on ESPN, and they presented a stat that said that Papelbon had a poor save record in saves of more than 1 inning.  His performance last night added to that poor record.

    I don't think the move to bring in Papelbon was a huge mistake, but I did wonder about the timing of it.  If Hill is up and ready, why not use him against the lefties.  That is his role.  And if Fancona is not going to take advantage of lefty on lefty, why remove Aceves at all, since Papelbon had a bad record against Kubel.

    But Terry played a hunch.  In the end, it worked out ok.  Who knows how it would have worked out otherwise?  Bottom line:  Sox win another.  Good game! 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: if Hill is gonna warm up in the 8th

                                Jim, the only guy who doesn't know why Hill was up and ready is you. Why is he up? He's getting ready to pitch to the lefty batters.Not only is he up but he's ready. He didn't have the flu. If he did he wouldn't be out there. You 're searching for excuses to make your point. You're saying "T"has more information at his disposal than I do. Maybe he does. I don't have a TV with streaming video about pitcher/batter matchups and other info supposedly making it easier to be a manager. Who's ever up in the BP is up because "T" wanted him up.Who's ever in the bullpen in ready to go for that game. The sick stuff has already been taken care of. By seeing who's up gives you an indication of how the manager is thinking. Hill is up,  thats the right move,so far. Next thing you know it's PAPS in for a 4-out save. I'll tell you what happened. There were no good options for the Kubel/Paps matchup. Not previous history, or left/right matchup. He panicked,"T" that is. The game sped up for him. He blows right by these (2) red flags and comes with Paps anyway. Paps gives up the tying hit and now we go extra innings. So what we won the game. We extended the BP a little but we won. That's the "Coma" lovers song. The end justifies the means. Throw whoever but throw somebody we don't care as long as we win "Coma's" the greatest. Hey maybe we have some more day games coming. Let's root for a high sun in RF, "Coma's"the greatest...we won didn't we ? Hey if I'm wrong on this analogy why was Hill up and ready? If you want Paps for a 4-out save why get Hill up in the first place? Jimbo last time I looked these games are played one at a time not in bunches. What scenarios are you referring to. There were no other scenarios in play at that time of the game. The matchup lefty in Hill or Paps thats what you're looking at. "T" went with Paps who gave it up. End of story. What else was there? Nothing. The problem with you Jimbo is you have difficulty understanding what is going on in a game and how it relates to whats going on in the Bullpen. You create possible scenarios in your head and  rationalize that these scenarios are somehow relevant to the game at hand.Now I'm not going to call you dumb or stupid. I'll leave it at you should try to rethink your position to come to better conclusions. Deal with the facts at hand when establishing a position. State the facts as you see them and draw your conclusion.
     

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