If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    lol - funny Laughing
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    In Response to Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME! : To begin with I'm not putting words in your mouth.   You stated: Plus, did CC lead them to a 2011 championship to deserve a raise?? That would clearly imply that you don't agree that he should be get a new or better contract.  I'd suggest that his performance over the last three years would show that he's earned what he's been paid, .. would be the best pitcher available if he decided to opt out, (which he'll almost certainly do, or at least renegotiate with the Yankees), ... and he'll certainly get a better and longer deal than the 4yrs/92 mil remaining on his Yankee contract.  As a Yankee fan I might not like it but the fact is the Yankees gave him this provision.  Only a fool wouldn't take advantage of it. You might not think that Toronto, the Chicago teams, the LAA or Rangers or even Phils are a good fits for any number of reasons but they all have the need and the resources so they are in fact candidates.  That pretty much trumps any and all reasons and i n time we'll see if they have the will .  Whether they make an effort or not will be a matter dependent upon a number of variables.  But, the all have the means and the need.  The RS are a good landing spot for him too, all things considered, because they too need starting pitching, an ace, and because it would do significant harm to one of their main rivals.  One of the biggest things working against them, as you suggest, is that the RS are feeling a bit snake bit about big time FA contracts with long term nine figure commitments thanks to Lackey and to a lesser extent Crawford.  That, however, is not a good reason to not sign the right player.   But, the other major factors are that the manager needs to be replaced and perhaps the GM too.  Until those two things are settled it's less likely that the RS will move to acquire anyone of significance.   As far as the whole troll thing, .. it's a useless concept.  Anytime someone that isn't a card carrying member of the Nation says anything around here they're suspect.  And, if they say anything critical or disagreeable no matter whether it's intelligent, "respectful" or otherwise they're a troll.  If you disagree tell me why I'm wrong rather than beat me over the head with my team preference.  Is it worse that a Yankee fan post something here that you disagree with or that a RS fan, like that Smiley numskull makes one after another idiotic threads or post?  Because while you might not agree with the former, .. the latter causes far more trouble. The notion that a blog or message board is or should be exclusive to it's constituency is illogical as it is counter productive.  The whole idea behind blogs/message boards/Internet is to discuss, share and expand communication and knowledge.  To get more insight into the topic being discussed.  Since the RS don't exist n a vacuum if "RS blogs are limited to ust the Nation than clearly limits the experience and the benefits.  Also, if this is a "Red Sox" message board what's the reasoning for this thread? "... which one are you hobrien?" It doesn't matter.  While knowing I'm a Yankee fan might give you information regarding my perspective it doesn't change the logic or lack of same when I post something.  If you've issue with my ideas or logic then address that and in short order it wont matter that I'm a life long Yankee fan that happens to visit this as well as a number of other blogs to discuss baseball in general. 
    Posted by heobrien[/QUOTE]

    Well heobrien, you obviously are here to talk baseball and not to instigate or incite Red Sox fans so that rules out the troll concept at least in my eyes right now.

    However, I don't have to disagree with you on some of your comments to classify you as a Yankee troll. Actually, quite the opposite, some of the best discussions regarding the Sox and Yanks are those that involve fans from both teams providing input.

    With this said, I will now disagree with you on a few points...
    • 1 - The Phillies do NOT have a "need" for a guy like Sabathia in their rotation, they are stacked with a high priced pitching staff now.
    • 2 - Toronto would never invest in a contract like Sabathia's, or they would have paid Halladay who's a better pitcher!
    • 3 - Most of these teams that you mention that would have interest would likely be hesitant to invest more than $23 million a season for a guy who will be 33 next season and has a weight issue, even though his extra weight has not been a hindrance so far, but as he gets older there are greater chances it will surface as an issue.
    As things stand now, I agree with you that the uncertainty of the Sox front office will deter them from joining in any serious conversations for CC's services. Even if they get their house in order before free agency opens, the MO of this organization is not to pay long term contracts to players at their latter prime years, so although there is definitely need the Sox will NOT invest in CC other than to try to increase the final price the Yankees pay.

    Unless a team like the Angels steps up and offers him a comparable deal and he really doesn't want to pitch in NY, my money would go that he re-ups with the Yanks at 4/$100 - but hey...to the Yanks that's nothing!

    In closing, I have enjoyed our baseball discussion about one of the better Yankee players who desires even greener pastures than he has today...but like you stated..."Only a fool wouldn't take advantage of it"...so it will be an interesting hot stove season, don't you think?




     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    The Yanks will probably sign him for the same amount but an extension on years to the contract.  I agree that doesn't make much sense to sign him to a 6 or 7 year deal at 160 mil, but that sure sounds better than the other CC at 7 years for 141 mil.  Of course CC has already proven he can play and play well on the big stage, so maybe he does deserve it.  Still it warms my heart to see the Yanks keep throwing their dollars at aging superstars.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from walterjohnson07. Show walterjohnson07's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    He's staying in New York.  He seems to relish the role as Yankees #1, and they need him desperately. 

    They also need starting pitching with Burnett underperforming and Hughes a question mark.  C.J. Wilson would be a nice replacement for Andy Pettitte, who I think surprised them a bit last season with his retirement.

    Of course, Erik Bedard is a free agent...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    Gluttony aside perhaps you don't take him back and sign Wilson for less?  Teams like Bos and NY need to understand they hold most of the cards. 

    I would think you see how things go the 1st half and then make a move mid-season if need be. Nova, Hughes, and say a Wilson would be as good 1-3 as the rest of the AL. Let CC go be the only good pitcher on a run-o'-the-mill .500 team, let us see how he likes it.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from caseycsw. Show caseycsw's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

        The only thing the Yankee management will be biting is the long payroll hotdog they will have to swallow to keep CC, albeit at a somewhat lighter and shorter price tag than might be projected. CC's signs of wear in the latter part of the season will only help the Yanks in warding off understandably nervous suitors, and in keeping his price and the length of contract a bit shorter than what might have been projected earlier in the season.  Then expect the Yanks, after signing CC, to (obviously) pick up Wilson or another free agent pitcher.  If the Yanks try to make a deal for Greinke or somebody similar, I doubt they will include Montero in a deal. Lack of timely offense, more than their pitching, is what killed them in the post-season.....
    Warning: This post was created by a Yankee fan, and may be intended to cause irreparable emotional and psychological harm to any Red Sox fan who might read it.
        

    "Pray for the dead, and fight like hell for the living."

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    when the boss comes callin' his take his toll 
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from heobrien. Show heobrien's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    Posted by Soxdog67;

    "1 - The Phillies do NOT have a "need" for a guy like Sabathia in their rotation, they are stacked with a high priced pitching staff now."

    Unless they think that Sabathia who is a couple of years younger than Oswalt makes more sense despite that fact that he'll be nearly twice as expenseive.

    "2 - Toronto would never invest in a contract like Sabathia's, or they would have paid Halladay who's a better pitcher!"

    Good point but they've also seen that without an ace #1 starter they've lost ground in the AL East.  Also, this is the same organization that gave Wells a huge contract.  Also, Sabathia will be younger than Halliday was when they traded him.

    "3 - Most of these teams that you mention that would have interest would likely be hesitant to invest more than $23 million a season for a guy who will be 33 next season and has a weight issue,..."

    First, he'll be 31 at the start of the season and turn 32 in the middle.  Yes, weight could very well becaome an issue and I would think that it's the biggest thing to watch for from a chronic injury stand point.  Or, perhaps not as he's always been  a big man and clearly he's done well.  Time will tell but I could easily see Sabathia becoming a left hander in the Andy Pettitte mode that while not dominant is a quality pitcher imto his late 30s.  For the next 2-4 yeas though he will likely be the #1 or #2 starter on any team he pitches for including the Phillies.

    This might be spliting hairs but I seee these teams as having the need, .. some more acute tha others.  They have the resources but surely theose recorces would be taxed if the signed Sabathia.  

    The real question is do they have the will.  Toronto, perhap the least of the ones I mentioned.  The LAA have a decent staff but since they've clearly not gotten it done with fire power they might see adding Sabthia as the best chance to get to the WS.  The Rangers missed out on Lee so clearly they see pitching as an issue and are willing to sgn a big contract.  The Phllies could decide to upgrade by either adding Sabathia or replacing Oswalt with him.  That situation is in a bit of flux because Howard, who is going to cost them a bundle likely isnt playing bnefore the ASB next year.  


    "..so it will be an interesting hot stove season, don't you think?"

    It'll be intersting and long, .. too long by about three weeks.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from heobrien. Show heobrien's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    In Response to Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!:
    [QUOTE]Gluttony aside perhaps you don't take him back and sign Wilson for less?  Teams like Bos and NY need to understand they hold most of the cards.  I would think you see how things go the 1st half and then make a move mid-season if need be. Nova, Hughes, and say a Wilson would be as good 1-3 as the rest of the AL. Let CC go be the only  good pitcher on a run-o'-the-mill .500 team, let us see how he likes it.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    You are assuming that the Yankees will sign Wilson, .. recent history shows that is a big assumption.  Also, while Nova had a pretty good year it assumes that there will be no regression, .. another assuption. It also assumes that Hughes will finialy put it all together, .. another assumption.  Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping for all that too but I'd like all that AND Sabathia too.  Sabathia looks to be a pitcher that will be dominant in the AL East for years to come.  Letting him go to attepmt to get similar results on the cheap is not the way the Yankees do business.  

    "Let CC go be the only good pitcher on a run-o'-the-mill .500 team, let us see how he likes it."

    Isn't that what he did with Milwaukee?  And, knowing that he was heading towards FA he risked it and pitch quite a bit down the stretch on short rest which was one of the main reasons the the Brewer's got in to the playoffs.

    Pretty nervy move.  Sabathia is a keeper.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    First, it is the yankees OWN fault for allowing the contact in the first place, so do not blame CC.  This is just another one of those famous "Ca$h"-man opt out clauses he loves to give and so far, he's 0 for 2; soon to be 0 for 3.

    Second, I think CC goes to San Fran for 25 * 5 = 125...He gets to go home and be in the rotation w/ Lincecum; it's not about $ per se

    The Giants would then spin Matt Cain and Jonathan Sanchez (just before they get expensive; which would off-set the CC contract) for some fairly inexpensive bats; 2 bats each.  Rangers would be a good target team if they lose CJ as would the yankes given in this scenario they'd lose CC.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    Posted by heobrien:

    First, he'll be 31 at the start of the season and turn 32 in the middle.  Yes, weight could very well becaome an issue and I would think that it's the biggest thing to watch for from a chronic injury stand point.  Or, perhaps not as he's always been  a big man and clearly he's done well.

    OK what was I reading, I saw he was born in 1980 and interrupted it to be 33 years from 2011...my abacus must be defective. Actually that makes his situation a little different but not much, that means a 4 year deal ends when he's 36 and not 37, which in athlete years is huge.

    I still feel the Sox will not be a serious bidder for his services...plus CC is saying he loves NY so he'll stay a Yank for a re-up of around 4/$25.

    So what do you think of a Burnett for Lackey trade?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    I can say I don't assume they will sign Wilson, it depends on wether the Rangers win the WS and just how far Nolan Ryan is willing to go to keep one of his own.  

    I do expect by July of 2012 the Yankees will ahve brought in another star pitcher wether CC stays or not.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    Burrito is correct. The Yankees will always outspend the Red Sox or anyone else. Money talks.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from heobrien. Show heobrien's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    Posted by Soxdog67[/QUOTE]

    "I still feel the Sox will not be a serious bidder for his services...plus CC is saying he loves NY so he'll stay a Yank for a re-up of around 4/$25." 

    Sabathia already has 4yr/92mil remaining so clearly whatever he gets will be north of that in years and in dollars.  Looking at Lee's contract last year as a benchmark, and remembering that at the time Lee was one year older than Sabathia will be when/if he signs a new contract this off season, it would seem that Lee's contract is the target if not the bottom threshold. Lee got 5yr/120 mil guaranteed with options it that could take it to 6yr/135+ mil.  Supposedly the Ranger and Yankee offers were better in terms of guaranteed money.  That leads me to think that both the Rangers and the Yankees would be surely be interested and their offers would be in the 5-6 year 135-150 mil range. 

    With that kind of money at stake one could point to Sabthia's weight and say that pretty risky gamble.  But, I don't think that Sabathia has ever spent any significant time on the DL if at all.  On the other hand Lee has significant time on the DL and even missed time in the 2010 season with a chronic back problem.  And, yet it didn't really hurt his contract offers.  Sure that is the result the thin SP options out there but things aren't any better this year.  So Sabathia looks to be in line for a raise and a few more years.

    I still think the odds are very good that the Yankees resign him if for no other reason then thet realize just how important that he is to their SP.  Also, he's certainly earned his keep with his on field performance as well as the way he carries himself as a teammate and grown up off field. That being said, if he hits FA market then any number of teams could be in on it including the RS.  I understand that at the moment the RS are unsettled but that should be resolved soon. Even if Epstein leaves it appears that he RS already have his replacement in house which will be good for continuity.  While I realize that the RS generally don't like signing big ticket long term FA and the last two has effectively reinforced that strategy it would be a mistake to walk away from quality mega free agents.  If they could pry Sabathia way from the Yankees they'd be getting themselves an excellent pitcher and inflict profound damage on the Yankees.  And, I think Henry is more open to signing big ticket FA than Epstein ever was so if he goes it's more likely.  


    "So what do you think of a Burnett for Lackey trade?"

    I say trade'em both but do you know anybody will take'em!  

    I'm kidding but suggesting the Yankees and RS swap their respective problems then no freakin way!  Statistically I'd give Burnett a slight advantage but nothing worth arguing about, they're essentially a wash.  But, Lackey gets a lot more bad press and at times seems to be a bit beligernent.  Burnett, can have trouble acting like a grown up from time to time but I get the impression his teammates like him.  I hestiate to say that Lackey is the clubhouse cancer that he's portrayed as because nobody ever ask him his side but there is nothing in his performance on field or his demeanor off it that I like.  And, he has one more year left on his contract than Burnett.  Now, ifthe RS want to make the money a wash and give us back Aceves then we might have a deal.  
     
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    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    In Response to Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!:
    [QUOTE]I think that the Brewers and the Phils are the only two teams he will go to if he doesn’t stay with the Yankees. The Phillies offer him a chance to pitch with his friend Lee and be a member of one of the best starting pitching staff ever. He has always said that he loved playing for the Brewers. It has always been my belief that some guys once they win there championship and have a choice to go to a place they like they will take the place they like even if it is for less money.  CC is one of those guys, he has made more than enough money and that it is no longer an issue.
    Posted by bald-predictions[/QUOTE]
    Phillies need some hitting but wow that would be quite a staff if they had CC too
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    null I think the Phillies proved one thing - they don't need more pitching, they need more offense. CC would not make one iota of difference for them in 2012.


     
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    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    In Response to Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!:
    [QUOTE]null I think the Phillies proved one thing - they don't need more pitching, they need more offense. CC would not make one iota of difference for them in 2012.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    That was my point, I just said it would be a heck of a staff.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    In Response to Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!:
    [QUOTE]I can say I don't assume they will sign Wilson, it depends on wether the Rangers win the WS and just how far Nolan Ryan is willing to go to keep one of his own.   I do expect by July of 2012 the Yankees will ahve brought in another star pitcher wether CC stays or not.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    Considering that the Rangers lost out on Cliff Lee last year, I would imagine that they will try to resign Wilson for next season.  I would be surprised if this doesn't happen.  You are right about the Yankees signing another starting pitcher for next season.  I just don't think it will be CJ Wilson. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    Wilosn could win 20 next year but if you look at only what he has done he has only two good years and he failed to win more than 16 on a WS caliber team.  He is also 30 years old.

    It may even be a mistake for the Rangers to overpay to keep him.
     
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    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    In Response to Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!:
    [QUOTE]Wilosn could win 20 next year but if you look at only what he has done he has only two good years and he failed to win more than 16 on a WS caliber team.  He is also 30 years old. It may even be a mistake for the Rangers to overpay to keep him.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    You may be right about the Rangers overpaying him.  If they got into a bidding war with the Yankees, the Yankees would probably sign him.  
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    I think the yankees have to be prepared for the fact that it is a possibility that either AJ Burnett will be their opening day starter OR that they will have to part with top-tiered minor league talent to acquire a #1 starter for 2012
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    ARoids he inherited, true

    but the point w/ ARoids is he re-signed him for a LOT MORE MONEY EVEN AFTER HE OPTED OUT......

    But Soriano

    and CC were during his tenure

    so the way I see it, that's 3 (2 directly given by the "Ca$h"-man and 1 the "Ca$h"-man allowed to play him)

     
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    Re: If I am New York I will tell Sabathia to BITE ME!

    Anyways, AJ Burnett as your opening day pitcher unless the "Ca$h"-man gets to work.
     

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