If Iggy hits?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    I have a suspicion Iggy is going to show us enough with the bat this year to be our planned starting SS for 2014.  Nothing to concrete to base this on, just a hunch, so take it FWIW (< $.02 probably).

    Assuming Drew starts the year on the DL I expect Iggy is our SS and Ciriaco is still the utility guy.  If Iggy hits well enough in that stint, I still expect him to go back to AAA for a while.  They will keep Drew in "rehab" as long as possible and then send Iggy back to AAA so Drew can play and hopefully gain some trade value.  

    I'm not terribly concerned about this ... having two viable starters is definitely the baseball version of a "first world problem."  I am more concerned that Iggy will show he isn't really ready and Drew has lingering post-concussion problems leaving us w/ a hole at SS that Ciriaco cannot fill on a daily basis.  Then again, we do have Brock Holt!  :)

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to tomnev's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Assuming, as most people believe, that Iglesias is not ready for the major leagues from an offensive standpoint and that Ciriaco is going to be the utility IF backup, who should they have obtained to be SS this year? Is it really going to matter in terms of our ability to win a ring this year or next? Get a grip

    Thank you for making my point. 10 million for Drew isn't going to make one iota of difference in the Red Sox capability to win a championship over the next two years.

    Some of the top MLB career SS in the modern era would have been career minor leaguers if they employed the Red Sox "slugging SS" model. The notion that an OBP, from the SS, of .200 vs. .300 is going to have a larger impact than a butcher with a glove and an artist with a glove at SS, that's why incompetent Red Sox management keeps wasting time and money on a long cast of bums at the starting SS slot.

     



    But if Iggy is not ready to play SS in the major leagues but might be ready when the team is ready to compete for a ring again, around 2-3 years from now, why rush him up before his time? He should clearly be in the minor leagues where he can receive instruction on how to hit the baseball without all the pressure that comes with playing in the major leagues in Boston. So assuming he is not yet ready and would benefit by more time in the minors, who should they have signed to play SS? Someone has to play there.

     

     



    Could someone point out to me what is fundamentally worng with Iggy's approach at the plate that he could be taiught to correct it at AAA? If his issue is, as someone here said, he cant catch up to a ML fastball, then I dont see how that is correctable or teachable....I would think the only way you get batter at that is to face more Major League Fastballs....and since he has K's very little this spring facing mostly fastballs....I cant see that as the issue. If the issue is plate discipline....or bascially taking more pitches and walking more....this contradicts the quotes of praise he is getting from the Manager for being more confident and aggressive at the plate.....I am all for him improving at the plate, but I have stated before I only think that improvement is real if I see it at the ML level...if he goes down to AAA and hits .275....it will mean nothing when he comes up because he will have to prove it at than next level anyway.....maybe he will never hit better than .220 in the majors, but unless someone can show me the whole he has in his swing that needs to be worked on in the Minors, I would like to see his glove in Boston and let him face ML pitching and get better at it....because that is the only way he ever will. And as I have said before becuase of his defense, he is the one guy on our Roster who if he hit .240, it would be fine.

     

     




    The problem is that he hasn't even proven he can hit at the AAA level. His OPS in two years in AAA ball is .589 and only .672 at the AA level. It makes no sense to shove him into the lineup in the major leagues and expect improvement right now. First he has to prove he can hit AAA pitching; then he can be promoted.

     




    But, it's Ok to go with Ciriaco at SS?

    The guy who has a career .299 OBP in the minors over a huge sample size.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     I think if we throw in half/most of his salary

    Thank for making my case on how embarrassing it was to sign this guy. No way half his salary nets anything more than a career minor leaguer.

    And the reason the Red Sox management is paying Iglesias but keep him in the minors is because they want him slugging and getting on base more. They signed him thinking they could mold him into the hitting they keep trying to get from the SS slot. I'm laughing at the thought of them trading Iggy and keeping Drew. How incompetent would that be.

    Bogaerts isn't any SS, despite the Red Sox latest attempt to try and build a slugging SS. Maybe 10 more years and Red Sox management changes then the Red Sox will finally have a career everyday SS who plays more than a season or two and isn't written off, demoted or shipped out of town.

     



    Good luck in your continuing effort to make reality conform to your own inner narrative.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to tomnev's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Assuming, as most people believe, that Iglesias is not ready for the major leagues from an offensive standpoint and that Ciriaco is going to be the utility IF backup, who should they have obtained to be SS this year? Is it really going to matter in terms of our ability to win a ring this year or next? Get a grip

    Thank you for making my point. 10 million for Drew isn't going to make one iota of difference in the Red Sox capability to win a championship over the next two years.

    Some of the top MLB career SS in the modern era would have been career minor leaguers if they employed the Red Sox "slugging SS" model. The notion that an OBP, from the SS, of .200 vs. .300 is going to have a larger impact than a butcher with a glove and an artist with a glove at SS, that's why incompetent Red Sox management keeps wasting time and money on a long cast of bums at the starting SS slot.

     



    But if Iggy is not ready to play SS in the major leagues but might be ready when the team is ready to compete for a ring again, around 2-3 years from now, why rush him up before his time? He should clearly be in the minor leagues where he can receive instruction on how to hit the baseball without all the pressure that comes with playing in the major leagues in Boston. So assuming he is not yet ready and would benefit by more time in the minors, who should they have signed to play SS? Someone has to play there.

     

     



    Could someone point out to me what is fundamentally worng with Iggy's approach at the plate that he could be taiught to correct it at AAA? If his issue is, as someone here said, he cant catch up to a ML fastball, then I dont see how that is correctable or teachable....I would think the only way you get batter at that is to face more Major League Fastballs....and since he has K's very little this spring facing mostly fastballs....I cant see that as the issue. If the issue is plate discipline....or bascially taking more pitches and walking more....this contradicts the quotes of praise he is getting from the Manager for being more confident and aggressive at the plate.....I am all for him improving at the plate, but I have stated before I only think that improvement is real if I see it at the ML level...if he goes down to AAA and hits .275....it will mean nothing when he comes up because he will have to prove it at than next level anyway.....maybe he will never hit better than .220 in the majors, but unless someone can show me the whole he has in his swing that needs to be worked on in the Minors, I would like to see his glove in Boston and let him face ML pitching and get better at it....because that is the only way he ever will. And as I have said before becuase of his defense, he is the one guy on our Roster who if he hit .240, it would be fine.

     

     




    The problem is that he hasn't even proven he can hit at the AAA level. His OPS in two years in AAA ball is .589 and only .672 at the AA level. It makes no sense to shove him into the lineup in the major leagues and expect improvement right now. First he has to prove he can hit AAA pitching; then he can be promoted.

     

     




     

    But, it's Ok to go with Ciriaco at SS?

    The guy who has a career .299 OBP in the minors over a huge sample size.



    Exactly....and I will say once again....Nobody can be sure what Iggy would hit in Boston....but everybody who has seen him this spring as said they have seen marked improvement....so lets say with the improvement he can have his AA OPS of .672 at the ML level....Drews lifetime OPS is .762...his OPS in 2011 was .713 basically pre injury and last year it was .657 post injury.....so if Iggy gave us a .672 OPS with his defense worlds ahead of Drew he would be the better option. Especially on a team who needs the best possible defense behind his rotation.....which is the same reason that Bradley should be kept.....Bradley, Ells, Victorino....in the OF....Middlebrooks, Iggy, Pedey and Napoli(surprsiingly better that you would think) give us an Excellent defensive team....

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    Scott Lauber is reporting on his twitter feed that Jose will open the season as the Red Sox' starting SS. Apparently Farrell likes Iggy's plate discipline better than Ciriaco's. I have to say that it's only in comparison to Ciriaco that one would be able to say Jose Iglesias and plate discipline in the same sentence without laughing.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    Scott Lauber is reporting on his twitter feed that Jose will open the season as the Red Sox' starting SS. Apparently Farrell likes Iggy's plate discipline better than Ciriaco's. I have to say that it's only in comparison to Ciriaco that one would be able to say Jose Iglesias and plate discipline in the same sentence without laughing.

     

      And they will LOVE his GLOVE   !!!  1. off of every pitchers  ERA   !!!


     



    I hope you're right.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    In response to carnie's comment:

    Scott Lauber is reporting on his twitter feed that Jose will open the season as the Red Sox' starting SS. Apparently Farrell likes Iggy's plate discipline better than Ciriaco's. I have to say that it's only in comparison to Ciriaco that one would be able to say Jose Iglesias and plate discipline in the same sentence without laughing.



    It's not hard to be better than a career .299 OBP in the minors (Ciriaco).

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    Scott Lauber is reporting on his twitter feed that Jose will open the season as the Red Sox' starting SS. Apparently Farrell likes Iggy's plate discipline better than Ciriaco's. I have to say that it's only in comparison to Ciriaco that one would be able to say Jose Iglesias and plate discipline in the same sentence without laughing.

     

      And they will LOVE his GLOVE   !!!  1. off of every pitchers  ERA   !!!


     

     



    I hope you're right.

     



    With an improved Salty behind the plater, David Ross getting significant time, Iggy at SS and Bradley in CF, it could be possible to see a 1.00 staff ERA decline.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from chetgnat. Show chetgnat's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    Iggy can't hit. Won't hit. Won't ever be the long-term answer in Boston and will be traded soon. Some people simply can't hit major league pitching and the best defensive player in the history of the game isn't worth playing if he can't hit .200. Just the way it is. hth.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    Scott Lauber is reporting on his twitter feed that Jose will open the season as the Red Sox' starting SS. Apparently Farrell likes Iggy's plate discipline better than Ciriaco's. I have to say that it's only in comparison to Ciriaco that one would be able to say Jose Iglesias and plate discipline in the same sentence without laughing.

     

      And they will LOVE his GLOVE   !!!  1. off of every pitchers  ERA   !!!


     

     



    I hope you're right.

     

     



    With an improved Salty behind the plater, David Ross getting significant time, Iggy at SS and Bradley in CF, it could be possible to see a 1.00 staff ERA decline.

     



    +54 DRS per position?  Hey I hope you're right but ...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    In response to chetgnat's comment:

    Iggy can't hit. Won't hit. Won't ever be the long-term answer in Boston and will be traded soon. Some people simply can't hit major league pitching and the best defensive player in the history of the game isn't worth playing if he can't hit .200. Just the way it is. hth.



    1) Why do you think he can't hit .200?  

         74 PAs in the bigs spread out over small sample sizes from 2011-2012?

         Based on a .264 minor league BA from ages 20-22?

     

    2) What would it take for "the best defensive player in the history of the game" to hit for it to be worth playing in your eyes?

         .240?

         .250?

         .275?

     

    3) Does it matter if he saves 80 hits a year with his defense, but gets 30-50 less hits than the average SS over 600 PAs?

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    In response to 111SoxFan111's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    Scott Lauber is reporting on his twitter feed that Jose will open the season as the Red Sox' starting SS. Apparently Farrell likes Iggy's plate discipline better than Ciriaco's. I have to say that it's only in comparison to Ciriaco that one would be able to say Jose Iglesias and plate discipline in the same sentence without laughing.

     

      And they will LOVE his GLOVE   !!!  1. off of every pitchers  ERA   !!!


     

     



    I hope you're right.

     

     



    With an improved Salty behind the plater, David Ross getting significant time, Iggy at SS and Bradley in CF, it could be possible to see a 1.00 staff ERA decline.

     

     



    +54 DRS per position?  Hey I hope you're right but ...

     

    It might be 1 runs saved, but probably not 1 ER saved, since some plays these guys could be making were called errors before.

     

     




     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    I have said with Bradley and Iggy the Sox could see a 1/2 run per game improvement but if you count the improved Catcher defense and hopefully the improvements in the staff that Farrell brings, keeping in mind that last year we had 41(25%) games started between Aaron Cook, Dice K, Zaxh Stewart, and an out of place Daniel Bard and 9 more started by F Morales,not too mention the merry go round we had of Bulllpne guys.....I could se the staff ERA improving by a Run this year and if it does go from 4.70 to 3.70, this team will be a playoff team.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from chetgnat. Show chetgnat's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to chetgnat's comment:

     

    Iggy can't hit. Won't hit. Won't ever be the long-term answer in Boston and will be traded soon. Some people simply can't hit major league pitching and the best defensive player in the history of the game isn't worth playing if he can't hit .200. Just the way it is. hth.


    1) Why do you think he can't hit .200?  

     

         74 PAs in the bigs spread out over small sample sizes from 2011-2012?

         Based on a .264 minor league BA from ages 20-22?

    I don't think he can hit .200 in the same way I wouldn't think an overweight softball player who looks completely overmatched against major league baseball pitchers could. Eyeball test. Iggy can't catch up to MLB fastball and can't really hit the curve. Perhaps he can look changeup every pitch and hope for the best.

     

    2) What would it take for "the best defensive player in the history of the game" to hit for it to be worth playing in your eyes?

         .240?

         .250?

         .275?

    .210 would be borderline for a truly exceptional defensive player. .225 would probably suffice. Unfortunately what you often find is that with these one-dimensional defensive players, the pressure for them to perform superhuman feats in the field (because of their complete lack of production at the plate), especially on big-market teams, often ends up causing them to start making errors on easy plays in the field. From there it unravels quickly. 

     

    3) Does it matter if he saves 80 hits a year with his defense, but gets 30-50 less hits than the average SS over 600 PAs?

    It could. Course if he gets 90 fewer hits, then it wouldn't. And of course it would all depend on the specific situations involved. 

     

    As for the Ciriaco comparison, Ciriaco with no discipline is a far better offensive player than Iggy with improved discipline, but this decision to choose Iggy at first would be in line with their desire to work pitchers longer into counts. In Iggy's case, there's no reason not to. He won't hit either way, so it's easy to tell him to keep the bat on his shoulder, take two strikes and then try to bloop one every 5 at bats or so. That will end quickly, because he won't even get the one in 5. Ciriaco will be in there within a few games and will be head and shoulders better, and thus will end the Iggy Red Sox experience.

    Ciriaco is a legitimate major league player. Iggy, unfortunately, is not.

    For those of you who are so enamored of this young man because of his defensive prowess, now's probably the time to get the full baseball TV package. You will need it to follow his progress.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to chetgnat's comment:

     

    Iggy can't hit. Won't hit. Won't ever be the long-term answer in Boston and will be traded soon. Some people simply can't hit major league pitching and the best defensive player in the history of the game isn't worth playing if he can't hit .200. Just the way it is. hth.


    1) Why do you think he can't hit .200?  

     

         74 PAs in the bigs spread out over small sample sizes from 2011-2012?

         Based on a .264 minor league BA from ages 20-22?

    I don't think he can hit .200 in the same way I wouldn't think an overweight softball player who looks completely overmatched against major league baseball pitchers could. Eyeball test. Iggy can't catch up to MLB fastball and can't really hit the curve. Perhaps he can look changeup every pitch and hope for the best.

    How many eyeballs do you have? How often have you seen him hit? He's hit the ball hard this spring, but many for outs.

     

     

    2) What would it take for "the best defensive player in the history of the game" to hit for it to be worth playing in your eyes?

         .240?

         .250?

         .275?

    .210 would be borderline for a truly exceptional defensive player. .225 would probably suffice. Unfortunately what you often find is that with these one-dimensional defensive players, the pressure for them to perform superhuman feats in the field (because of their complete lack of production at the plate), especially on big-market teams, often ends up causing them to start making errors on easy plays in the field. From there it unravels quickly. 

    I'd say if Iggy can save 80 hits a year, .210 is fine.

     

     

    3) Does it matter if he saves 80 hits a year with his defense, but gets 30-50 less hits than the average SS over 600 PAs?

    It could. Course if he gets 90 fewer hits, then it wouldn't. And of course it would all depend on the specific situations involved. 

    90 fewer hits would put him at about .100 (90 hits per 550 ABs is about .160 below the average SS. The league SS BA last year was .256, so 90 less hits would be about .096.

     

     

    As for the Ciriaco comparison, Ciriaco with no discipline is a far better offensive player than Iggy with improved discipline, but this decision to choose Iggy at first would be in line with their desire to work pitchers longer into counts. In Iggy's case, there's no reason not to.

    You are basing this on tiny sample sizes from both Iggy and Pedro. Ciriaco has a long minor league history of a sub .300 OBP. Chances are he will revert back to that as he did for the second half of his season with the Sox last year(.269 OBP in his last 11 PAs) . Iggy's career minor league OBP is .313. Not great, but 14 points higher than Pedro and he's still just 22 years old.

     

    He won't hit either way, so it's easy to tell him to keep the bat on his shoulder, take two strikes and then try to bloop one every 5 at bats or so. That will end quickly, because he won't even get the one in 5. Ciriaco will be in there within a few games and will be head and shoulders better, and thus will end the Iggy Red Sox experience.

    We'll see about Pedro.

     

     

    Ciriaco is a legitimate major league player. Iggy, unfortunately, is not.

     

    See above.

     

    For those of you who are so enamored of this young man because of his defensive prowess, now's probably the time to get the full baseball TV package. You will need it to follow his progress.

    I will watch every pitch of every game again this year.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    3) Does it matter if he saves 80 hits a year with his defense, but gets 30-50 less hits than the average SS over 600 PAs?

    It is unlikely to save 80 hits.  That's about .5 assists and POs per game.

    Of the 12 AL ss's with at least 750 innings at SS, they averaged 4.48.  No one was .5 above average, and only GG Jeter was worse than .5 below average.

    Aviles was at 4.68.  To be .5 above him, Iglesias would have to be at 5.18.  No SS exceeded 4.90.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    3) Does it matter if he saves 80 hits a year with his defense, but gets 30-50 less hits than the average SS over 600 PAs?

    It is unlikely to save 80 hits.  That's about .5 assists and POs per game.

    Of the 12 AL ss's with at least 750 innings at SS, they averaged 4.48.  No one was .5 above average, and only GG Jeter was worse than .5 below average.

    Aviles was at 4.68.  To be .5 above him, Iglesias would have to be at 5.18.  No SS exceeded 4.90.



    It's really not about saving hits but saving runs. He has phenomenol range and agility and there is no doubt in my mind that he can get to many more balls than any SS the Sox have had, including Nomar.

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to tomnev's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Assuming, as most people believe, that Iglesias is not ready for the major leagues from an offensive standpoint and that Ciriaco is going to be the utility IF backup, who should they have obtained to be SS this year? Is it really going to matter in terms of our ability to win a ring this year or next? Get a grip

    Thank you for making my point. 10 million for Drew isn't going to make one iota of difference in the Red Sox capability to win a championship over the next two years.

    Some of the top MLB career SS in the modern era would have been career minor leaguers if they employed the Red Sox "slugging SS" model. The notion that an OBP, from the SS, of .200 vs. .300 is going to have a larger impact than a butcher with a glove and an artist with a glove at SS, that's why incompetent Red Sox management keeps wasting time and money on a long cast of bums at the starting SS slot.

     



    But if Iggy is not ready to play SS in the major leagues but might be ready when the team is ready to compete for a ring again, around 2-3 years from now, why rush him up before his time? He should clearly be in the minor leagues where he can receive instruction on how to hit the baseball without all the pressure that comes with playing in the major leagues in Boston. So assuming he is not yet ready and would benefit by more time in the minors, who should they have signed to play SS? Someone has to play there.

     

     



    Could someone point out to me what is fundamentally worng with Iggy's approach at the plate that he could be taiught to correct it at AAA? If his issue is, as someone here said, he cant catch up to a ML fastball, then I dont see how that is correctable or teachable....I would think the only way you get batter at that is to face more Major League Fastballs....and since he has K's very little this spring facing mostly fastballs....I cant see that as the issue. If the issue is plate discipline....or bascially taking more pitches and walking more....this contradicts the quotes of praise he is getting from the Manager for being more confident and aggressive at the plate.....I am all for him improving at the plate, but I have stated before I only think that improvement is real if I see it at the ML level...if he goes down to AAA and hits .275....it will mean nothing when he comes up because he will have to prove it at than next level anyway.....maybe he will never hit better than .220 in the majors, but unless someone can show me the whole he has in his swing that needs to be worked on in the Minors, I would like to see his glove in Boston and let him face ML pitching and get better at it....because that is the only way he ever will. And as I have said before becuase of his defense, he is the one guy on our Roster who if he hit .240, it would be fine.

     

     




    The problem is that he hasn't even proven he can hit at the AAA level. His OPS in two years in AAA ball is .589 and only .672 at the AA level. It makes no sense to shove him into the lineup in the major leagues and expect improvement right now. First he has to prove he can hit AAA pitching; then he can be promoted.

     

     




     

    But, it's Ok to go with Ciriaco at SS?

    The guy who has a career .299 OBP in the minors over a huge sample size.



    First, Ciriaco can play multiple positions. He should not be the starting SS either once Drew is back. Ciriaco is the utility IF. Second, in a reasonably decent sample size of 312 ABs, Ciriaco is hitting .299/.725. Iglesias is hitting just .135/.413 in 74 ABs in the majors and just .251/.589 in 783 PAs at the AAA level. You tell me who has the better statistics.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    In response to chetgnat's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to chetgnat's comment:

     

    Iggy can't hit. Won't hit. Won't ever be the long-term answer in Boston and will be traded soon. Some people simply can't hit major league pitching and the best defensive player in the history of the game isn't worth playing if he can't hit .200. Just the way it is. hth.


    1) Why do you think he can't hit .200?  

     

         74 PAs in the bigs spread out over small sample sizes from 2011-2012?

         Based on a .264 minor league BA from ages 20-22?

    I don't think he can hit .200 in the same way I wouldn't think an overweight softball player who looks completely overmatched against major league baseball pitchers could. Eyeball test. Iggy can't catch up to MLB fastball and can't really hit the curve. Perhaps he can look changeup every pitch and hope for the best.

     

    2) What would it take for "the best defensive player in the history of the game" to hit for it to be worth playing in your eyes?

         .240?

         .250?

         .275?

    .210 would be borderline for a truly exceptional defensive player. .225 would probably suffice. Unfortunately what you often find is that with these one-dimensional defensive players, the pressure for them to perform superhuman feats in the field (because of their complete lack of production at the plate), especially on big-market teams, often ends up causing them to start making errors on easy plays in the field. From there it unravels quickly. 

     

    3) Does it matter if he saves 80 hits a year with his defense, but gets 30-50 less hits than the average SS over 600 PAs?

    It could. Course if he gets 90 fewer hits, then it wouldn't. And of course it would all depend on the specific situations involved. 

     

    As for the Ciriaco comparison, Ciriaco with no discipline is a far better offensive player than Iggy with improved discipline, but this decision to choose Iggy at first would be in line with their desire to work pitchers longer into counts. In Iggy's case, there's no reason not to. He won't hit either way, so it's easy to tell him to keep the bat on his shoulder, take two strikes and then try to bloop one every 5 at bats or so. That will end quickly, because he won't even get the one in 5. Ciriaco will be in there within a few games and will be head and shoulders better, and thus will end the Iggy Red Sox experience.

    Ciriaco is a legitimate major league player. Iggy, unfortunately, is not.

    For those of you who are so enamored of this young man because of his defensive prowess, now's probably the time to get the full baseball TV package. You will need it to follow his progress.

     



    Great defensive shortstops are about more than the balls they get to or the hits they save. When a SS has the range and ability that Iggy has, it allows the 3B to play closer to the line, it allows for the 2b to cheat a little toward 1st....you  end up getting more Double plays.....it gives the pitchers a different confidence level.....you cant measure many of the effects.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to tomnev's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Assuming, as most people believe, that Iglesias is not ready for the major leagues from an offensive standpoint and that Ciriaco is going to be the utility IF backup, who should they have obtained to be SS this year? Is it really going to matter in terms of our ability to win a ring this year or next? Get a grip

    Thank you for making my point. 10 million for Drew isn't going to make one iota of difference in the Red Sox capability to win a championship over the next two years.

    Some of the top MLB career SS in the modern era would have been career minor leaguers if they employed the Red Sox "slugging SS" model. The notion that an OBP, from the SS, of .200 vs. .300 is going to have a larger impact than a butcher with a glove and an artist with a glove at SS, that's why incompetent Red Sox management keeps wasting time and money on a long cast of bums at the starting SS slot.

     



    But if Iggy is not ready to play SS in the major leagues but might be ready when the team is ready to compete for a ring again, around 2-3 years from now, why rush him up before his time? He should clearly be in the minor leagues where he can receive instruction on how to hit the baseball without all the pressure that comes with playing in the major leagues in Boston. So assuming he is not yet ready and would benefit by more time in the minors, who should they have signed to play SS? Someone has to play there.

     

     



    Could someone point out to me what is fundamentally worng with Iggy's approach at the plate that he could be taiught to correct it at AAA? If his issue is, as someone here said, he cant catch up to a ML fastball, then I dont see how that is correctable or teachable....I would think the only way you get batter at that is to face more Major League Fastballs....and since he has K's very little this spring facing mostly fastballs....I cant see that as the issue. If the issue is plate discipline....or bascially taking more pitches and walking more....this contradicts the quotes of praise he is getting from the Manager for being more confident and aggressive at the plate.....I am all for him improving at the plate, but I have stated before I only think that improvement is real if I see it at the ML level...if he goes down to AAA and hits .275....it will mean nothing when he comes up because he will have to prove it at than next level anyway.....maybe he will never hit better than .220 in the majors, but unless someone can show me the whole he has in his swing that needs to be worked on in the Minors, I would like to see his glove in Boston and let him face ML pitching and get better at it....because that is the only way he ever will. And as I have said before becuase of his defense, he is the one guy on our Roster who if he hit .240, it would be fine.

     

     




    The problem is that he hasn't even proven he can hit at the AAA level. His OPS in two years in AAA ball is .589 and only .672 at the AA level. It makes no sense to shove him into the lineup in the major leagues and expect improvement right now. First he has to prove he can hit AAA pitching; then he can be promoted.

     

     




     

    But, it's Ok to go with Ciriaco at SS?

    The guy who has a career .299 OBP in the minors over a huge sample size.

     



    First, Ciriaco can play multiple positions. He should not be the starting SS either once Drew is back. Ciriaco is the utility IF. Second, in a reasonably decent sample size of 312 ABs, Ciriaco is hitting .299/.725. Iglesias is hitting just .135/.413 in 74 ABs in the majors and just .251/.589 in 783 PAs at the AAA level. You tell me who has the better statistics.

     

     



    Iggy does.

    I'm never going to make any judgements based on 312 PAs(Pedro), let alone 74 (Iggy).

     

    Here's a bigger sample size- the minors...

     

    Iggy:     1076 PAs:  .264  OBP:.313

    Pedro:   3502 PAs   .272  OBP: .299

     

    Iggy is a better fielding SS. He doesn't need to know how to play 2B, since guys like Ciriaco and Holt can play there, if needed.

    Mark my words, Pedro will come back down to earth as he started to in his last 100 or so PAs out of the 312. In a larger sample size that Iggy's is, Pedro did this in his last 111 PAs:

    .233/.269/.291/.560

    Perhaps this is more like the real Pedro that the one from his previous scattered 201 PAs.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    3) Does it matter if he saves 80 hits a year with his defense, but gets 30-50 less hits than the average SS over 600 PAs?

    It is unlikely to save 80 hits.  That's about .5 assists and POs per game.

    Of the 12 AL ss's with at least 750 innings at SS, they averaged 4.48.  No one was .5 above average, and only GG Jeter was worse than .5 below average.

    Aviles was at 4.68.  To be .5 above him, Iglesias would have to be at 5.18.  No SS exceeded 4.90.

     

    Every year, the best ranged SSs make 100+ more plays than the lower ones. 80 is highly possible, and I feel even likely. I almost put 100. He certainly can make 100 more plays than a guy with a pin in his foot who was already a low-ranged SS (Drew) to begin with.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    3) Does it matter if he saves 80 hits a year with his defense, but gets 30-50 less hits than the average SS over 600 PAs?

    It is unlikely to save 80 hits.  That's about .5 assists and POs per game.

    Of the 12 AL ss's with at least 750 innings at SS, they averaged 4.48.  No one was .5 above average, and only GG Jeter was worse than .5 below average.

    Aviles was at 4.68.  To be .5 above him, Iglesias would have to be at 5.18.  No SS exceeded 4.90.

     



    It's really not about saving hits but saving runs. He has phenomenol range and agility and there is no doubt in my mind that he can get to many more balls than any SS the Sox have had, including Nomar.

     



    Getting to more balls is "saving hits" by the Opps.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If Iggy hits?

    Great defensive shortstops are about more than the balls they get to or the hits they save. When a SS has the range and ability that Iggy has, it allows the 3B to play closer to the line, it allows for the 2b to cheat a little toward 1st....you  end up getting more Double plays.....it gives the pitchers a different confidence level.....you cant measure many of the effects.

     

    Yes!

    Plus, by getting more outs than the normal SS, Iggy can shorten innings and pitch counts of our starters. It helps keep the pen fresh, and builds confidence in our staff. Also, a great play in the field can provide a spark to the team that may manifest itself in a rally by the offense, but of course, a K by Iggy with bases loaded can also take the steam out of an offense as well.

     
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