If it came down to it....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: If it came down to it....

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Players and coaches who only play against him a few times a year voted him for that award. Scouts who see him a lot more say otherwise, so the award doesnt mean that much. Only that he improved from terrible to below average. They dont have time for another project. Didnt you guys watch him play? Hes a passed ball machine. He tries to backhand everything and isnt quick enough, like Salty, to slide and block balls. His game calling and pitch framing has also been brough into question from scouts. they are not impressed with him. His offense has taken a big hit because of the demands for the position, which is expected.

    So, Do you keep a below average defensive catcher with ok offensive numbers, or do you put him in a place where you play to his strengths? Play him at 1b which isnt nearly as demanding as C, let him get that swing back and we should see the BA, OBP and HR totals jump. Atleast playing there gives him the best chance to play to his best atribute...His bat.

    Id rather set him up for success now. Hes NOT the catcher of the future, so it makes no sense to keep him there. Why trade him when he doesnt have much value? I would even feel more comfortable with him platooning at 1b with Carp/Nava than catching, then maybe taking over FT if it works out.

    As I said, I have no problem giving him a shot at 1B either. When Salty got here via trade with Texas he was much worse than Lavarnway, yet they gave him a chance. No one knows if Lavarnway can work out at catcher until he is given a fair shot. Significant improvement IS possible; and I do like his bat, despite an off year.

     

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    By the way...great pics, thanks. I enjoyed them.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: If it came down to it....

    I'm with Pump on this one, the guy deserves a shot.  If they don't intend to give it to him, they should trade him so he can play full-time somewhere, he certainly has nothing left to prove at AAA.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: If it came down to it....

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Players and coaches who only play against him a few times a year voted him for that award. Scouts who see him a lot more say otherwise, so the award doesnt mean that much. Only that he improved from terrible to below average. They dont have time for another project. Didnt you guys watch him play? Hes a passed ball machine. He tries to backhand everything and isnt quick enough, like Salty, to slide and block balls. His game calling and pitch framing has also been brough into question from scouts. they are not impressed with him. His offense has taken a big hit because of the demands for the position, which is expected.

    So, Do you keep a below average defensive catcher with ok offensive numbers, or do you put him in a place where you play to his strengths? Play him at 1b which isnt nearly as demanding as C, let him get that swing back and we should see the BA, OBP and HR totals jump. Atleast playing there gives him the best chance to play to his best atribute...His bat.

    Id rather set him up for success now. Hes NOT the catcher of the future, so it makes no sense to keep him there. Why trade him when he doesnt have much value? I would even feel more comfortable with him platooning at 1b with Carp/Nava than catching, then maybe taking over FT if it works out.

    As I said, I have no problem giving him a shot at 1B either. When Salty got here via trade with Texas he was much worse than Lavarnway, yet they gave him a chance. No one knows if Lavarnway can work out at catcher until he is given a fair shot. Significant improvement IS possible; and I do like his bat, despite an off year.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    By the way...great pics, thanks. I enjoyed them.

    [/QUOTE]

    I am getting better at shooting them I think. Part of that is that I am now just over 400 dives.
    Guess we will have to agree to disagree on Lavarnway. At the very least they ought to trade him to a team that WILL give him the shot he deserves.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from vtfanofcs. Show vtfanofcs's posts

    Re: If it came down to it....

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would start Butler over Lavarnway, .

    If the Sox are left with the options of lavarnway or Butler starting in 2014, I would pick Butler. Coming off a solid year both offensively and defensively, Id feel more comfortable going with the 27yo better defender. Probably have a few people scratching their heads, but I just dont trust Lavarnways defense for 100 games.

    Butler is much better defensively than Lavarnway, calls a better game (from all reports), showed some offensive gains last year, has a 30%+ CS, has shown a good OBP for a catcher and added a little power last year with 15hr.

    Vasquez is the superior defender over both these guys, but not quite ready yet. Maybe by mid-season or after the ASB.

    No, Butler nothing special, but if the choice came down to those 2, Id take Butler.



    Lavarnway has succeeded at every level of play where he has been given a fair shot at the job. I would take him over someone who has proven himself to be "nothing special" in a heartbeat.

    [/QUOTE]


      I sure hope that Lavarnway does not leave town without getting a clear shot to show what he can do,  If he is still here for spring training,  I hope he makes some noise with his bat.  If they are able to stash him in Pawtucket and choose to do it, it seems that he should be getting some time at 1B.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: If it came down to it....

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

    I'm with Pump on this one, the guy deserves a shot.  If they don't intend to give it to him, they should trade him so he can play full-time somewhere, he certainly has nothing left to prove at AAA.

    He hasnt earned anything guys, so he doesnt deserve it. Obviously the Sox see him more than any of us. I trust they have good reason to be reluctant to give him a "try out". This isnt LL. You have to be sure. With salty, he was always a natural catcher who got mishandled in Texas. Lavarnway didnt start catching until his sophmore year in college. He was primarily a RF.

    If the Sox arent going to use him as a catcher, because he hasnt much value right now, why not see how he does at 1b this winter/spring. I wouldnt just give him away, but like I said, his value isnt high right now. Id LOVE to have his potential bat playing at 1b for the next 6 years. I just cringe at his defense.

    Realistically, Lav's D is NEVER going to be close to as good as Vasquez, and Vasquez looks like his offense will be good enough to let his spectacular defense carry him. Although I wouldnt sleep on his bat being above average when its all said and done.

    I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one guys. Im just looking at it realistically. You cant argue that my points Ive made arent very valid arguements.

     

    PG...400 dives? Thats impressive bro. Keep taking those pics because they really are pretty awesome shots. I have used them as my screensaver on my Mac where they change every 5 sec, so Thanks!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: If it came down to it....

    I would do everything I could to turn Lavarnway into a 1B man, he may never be a great catcher so he will need a second position to carry him through a long career.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: If it came down to it....

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would start Butler over Lavarnway, .

    If the Sox are left with the options of lavarnway or Butler starting in 2014, I would pick Butler. Coming off a solid year both offensively and defensively, Id feel more comfortable going with the 27yo better defender. Probably have a few people scratching their heads, but I just dont trust Lavarnways defense for 100 games.

    Butler is much better defensively than Lavarnway, calls a better game (from all reports), showed some offensive gains last year, has a 30%+ CS, has shown a good OBP for a catcher and added a little power last year with 15hr.

    Vasquez is the superior defender over both these guys, but not quite ready yet. Maybe by mid-season or after the ASB.

    No, Butler nothing special, but if the choice came down to those 2, Id take Butler.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think the Sox will use or trade for the best possible compliment to Ross.  A player who can hit righties pretty well would be my guess.  Butler and Lav may not fit the bill

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    FWIW, catcher "platoons" are more often done based on their team's starting pitcher.  Not the oppositions.  I think Ross at the very least will be catching all of Lester's starts as long as he is healthy, and regardless of what arm the opposing pitcher throws with...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If it came down to it....

    FWIW, catcher "platoons" are more often done based on their team's starting pitcher.  Not the oppositions.  I think Ross at the very least will be catching all of Lester's starts as long as he is healthy, and regardless of what arm the opposing pitcher throws with...

    Since Ross hits righties as well as lefties, it makes a lot of sense to play the caddy system more often. The one big drawback is that if there is an injury, the unfamiliarity factor creaps in.

    Remember when Tito used VTek as Beckett's personal caddy, but then went with VMart in the playoffs... bam, bam, bam...

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: If it came down to it....

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would start Butler over Lavarnway, .

    If the Sox are left with the options of lavarnway or Butler starting in 2014, I would pick Butler. Coming off a solid year both offensively and defensively, Id feel more comfortable going with the 27yo better defender. Probably have a few people scratching their heads, but I just dont trust Lavarnways defense for 100 games.

    Butler is much better defensively than Lavarnway, calls a better game (from all reports), showed some offensive gains last year, has a 30%+ CS, has shown a good OBP for a catcher and added a little power last year with 15hr.

    Vasquez is the superior defender over both these guys, but not quite ready yet. Maybe by mid-season or after the ASB.

    No, Butler nothing special, but if the choice came down to those 2, Id take Butler.

    [/QUOTE]


    I would agree. Defense should be 1st priority behind the plate.

     

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: If it came down to it....

    The Sox should just trade Lavarnway to Oakland now to save time...

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: If it came down to it....

    They didn't need centerfielders last offseason yet they still traded for Chris Young.

     

    Anyway, it was more of a sarcastic response about where all the Sox post-prospects end up (and usually succeed)...

     
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