1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSdirtdogOR. Show RSdirtdogOR's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 1:39 AM EST

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to RSdirtdogOR's comment:

     

    I'd settle for a strong #3 with some up-side!  This season is going to all about the pitching!  As usual...

     




    i would still rather keep him, try to resign him and take the comp pick if we can't...

     




    I've always favored keeping Ells.  I just think we'd have to mortgage our future to keep him.  17 - 20 mil / yr at 5+ years...?????   I would go with JBJ & eliminate the risk.  Spend that money on PITCHING!  Round out the OF with some quality 2nd tier guys after this year.

     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from softlaw2. Show softlaw2's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 4:19 AM EST

    Hill is ver close on his evaluation of the value of Ellsbury, which isn't much.

     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 4:36 AM EST

    Fred Lynn was 23 and Jim Rice 22 when they played their first full season in MLB. They both tore the cover off the ball. Today neither of them would have been allowed up until they were 24+.

     

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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 5:42 AM EST

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    Fred Lynn was 23 and Jim Rice 22 when they played their first full season in MLB. They both tore the cover off the ball. Today neither of them would have been allowed up until they were 24+.




    Ellsbury and Pedrioa both made the jump at 23...That seems to be the perfect age where poistion players are both ready to compete at the big league level and ensures that the team has them under control through age 29. Starting Pitcher's typically take another year or more before they're ready to make the jump, if you're not wearing a big league uniform by the time you're 24-25 regardless of position chances are your either a AAAA guy or destined to working out of the pen or coming off the bench...

    All you need to do is follow the players career arc from the time they're drafted based on thier age when drafted as they accend through the ranks...Where they play and thier age reletive to the league average tells you how much the Sox think of any one particular player. Most start in A Ball if they rake...they move to AA...In AA if they rake they move to AAA...In AAA if they rake they move to MLB...Once there, if they rake they're millionaires. It is during this process that the team is trying to find the players ceiling and in the case of Ellsbury his ceiling was MLB...Lars Anderson once a top 10 BA prospects ceiling was AA...

    As position players advance at each level they face better pitching, it is how well they handle the adjustments at each level that ultimately determines how quickly they move to the next run on the ladder. Ditto for pitching prospects who face more advanced hitters and the only thing that differs for them, if you're seen as a potential starter is to make them ready physically with the goal to build inning totals year over year. So that by the time they're ready to make the jump to the big leagues they've already surpassed 150 innings (Jon Lester & Buccholz).

    In the end we're all very excited about the upside potentail of Bradley and with good reason. Let's not start trying to turn this into some conspiracy issue. He'll get promoted when he's ready and that could be as soon as this year...More likely he'll spend another season in the minors and get a cup of coffee at the end of this year with a legit shot at making the roster out of camp next season...

     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 6:00 AM EST

    I don't really think conspiracy.. just the way of the team. Anyhow hopefully when it happens it was worth the wait.

     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 6:30 AM EST

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Unless hes going to play FT in Boston, theres no need to waste a year of control and waste his development riding the pine.

     



    I wouldnt be against him playing on the long side of a platoon.

     

    If he played in LF against all righties, and subbed in for Vic and Ells occasionally, he would play ~75% of the time.

    I would submit that this would be enough to prevent stunting his development.

    But I would give the job to who wins it.  Nava, Sweeney, Bradley, Carp, Hazelbaker all fighting for the spot.

    If Bradley wins it, he wins it.




    Even at that, Id rather he play 100% of the time. Right now theres no need to start the arb clock and only start him 75% of the time. Just because hes hit good the first few games of ST, although promising, isnt the end all be all. His senond half of AA wasnt great last year after they adjusted to him.

    In his last 43 games at AA he hit .218/.340/.404...

    Id rather him start at AA with a quick track to AAA, then maybe a call-up...But thats just me.

     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 6:31 AM EST

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:

     

    i honestly think that if JBJ continues to impress that he should be our starting LF to start the season with gomes as the 4th outfielder. Ellsbury, JBJ and victorino could easily be one of the best defensive outfields in the majors. You have 3 guys who can essentially play all 3 outfield positions which gives us huge flexibility, and you would have two guys (gomes and victorino) who hit lefites well, and two guys (ellsbury and JBJ) who hit righties well. Makes perfect sense. And its not like JBJ is some 18/19 yr old prospect, the guy is 23 and has experience and is already a top notch defender.

     




    Bradley would be completely wasted in LF. The guy is probably a GG CF right now. And he also probably has the best arm of any outfielder in our minor league system. You don't need someone with a great arm in left, except maybe in Yankee Stadium. Which is why I think if both Bradley Jr. and Ellsbury are in the same outfield, Ellsbury would be the one going to left. I love Ellsbury, but his arm is spaghetti.

     

     




    Wasn't the old rule of thumb the best arm goes in right?

     




    Which would be Victorino

     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 6:34 AM EST

    In response to RSdirtdogOR's comment:

     

    For the record.....

    I would deal Ells for a front line SP.  An ACE!  Perhaps a strong #2 starter!  I would take the risk & go wit JBJ in CF, add the ACE, & take my chances......  We're going to lose him anyway!  Do it before he possibly gets injured.

     




    Problem is that your not getting a TOTR starter for Ells..No way, no how...hes here til at least the trade deadline.

     

     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 6:35 AM EST

     

    1) Don't think they sign Ells anyway. So worse case scenario we'll see him next yr.2) plus I have every reason to believe somebody will get hurt and we'll see him sooner. 

     

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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 7:53 AM EST

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Unless hes going to play FT in Boston, theres no need to waste a year of control and waste his development riding the pine.

     



    I wouldnt be against him playing on the long side of a platoon.

     

    If he played in LF against all righties, and subbed in for Vic and Ells occasionally, he would play ~75% of the time.

    I would submit that this would be enough to prevent stunting his development.

    But I would give the job to who wins it.  Nava, Sweeney, Bradley, Carp, Hazelbaker all fighting for the spot.

    If Bradley wins it, he wins it.

     




    Even at that, Id rather he play 100% of the time. Right now theres no need to start the arb clock and only start him 75% of the time. Just because hes hit good the first few games of ST, although promising, isnt the end all be all. His senond half of AA wasnt great last year after they adjusted to him.

     

    In his last 43 games at AA he hit .218/.340/.404...

    Id rather him start at AA with a quick track to AAA, then maybe a call-up...But thats just me.



    I think that was more fatigue than the league adjusting to him. Just about every college player hits the wall sometime towards the end of their first full pro season. The same thing happened to Barnes last year.

     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 8:03 AM EST

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Unless hes going to play FT in Boston, theres no need to waste a year of control and waste his development riding the pine.

     



    I wouldnt be against him playing on the long side of a platoon.

     

    If he played in LF against all righties, and subbed in for Vic and Ells occasionally, he would play ~75% of the time.

    I would submit that this would be enough to prevent stunting his development.

    But I would give the job to who wins it.  Nava, Sweeney, Bradley, Carp, Hazelbaker all fighting for the spot.

    If Bradley wins it, he wins it.

     




    Even at that, Id rather he play 100% of the time. Right now theres no need to start the arb clock and only start him 75% of the time. Just because hes hit good the first few games of ST, although promising, isnt the end all be all. His senond half of AA wasnt great last year after they adjusted to him.

     

    In his last 43 games at AA he hit .218/.340/.404...

    Id rather him start at AA with a quick track to AAA, then maybe a call-up...But thats just me.

     



    I think that was more fatigue than the league adjusting to him. Just about every college player hits the wall sometime towards the end of their first full pro season. The same thing happened to Barnes last year.

     




    43 games left and hes out of gas? Maybe a bit of both I would say (adjustments/fatigue). Still, If thats the case then he still should start in AA or AAA so he can build up his stamina...

     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 8:09 AM EST

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Unless hes going to play FT in Boston, theres no need to waste a year of control and waste his development riding the pine.

     



    I wouldnt be against him playing on the long side of a platoon.

     

    If he played in LF against all righties, and subbed in for Vic and Ells occasionally, he would play ~75% of the time.

    I would submit that this would be enough to prevent stunting his development.

    But I would give the job to who wins it.  Nava, Sweeney, Bradley, Carp, Hazelbaker all fighting for the spot.

    If Bradley wins it, he wins it.

     




    Even at that, Id rather he play 100% of the time. Right now theres no need to start the arb clock and only start him 75% of the time. Just because hes hit good the first few games of ST, although promising, isnt the end all be all. His senond half of AA wasnt great last year after they adjusted to him.

     

    In his last 43 games at AA he hit .218/.340/.404...

    Id rather him start at AA with a quick track to AAA, then maybe a call-up...But thats just me.

     



    I think that was more fatigue than the league adjusting to him. Just about every college player hits the wall sometime towards the end of their first full pro season. The same thing happened to Barnes last year.

     

     




    43 games left and hes out of gas? Maybe a bit of both I would say (adjustments/fatigue). Still, If thats the case then he still should start in AA or AAA so he can build up his stamina...

     



    Like I said on another thread, if he really lights it up all spring I think he'll start the year in Pawtucket. Otherwise he'll go back to Portland and try to show that the way he started out in AA is more who he is than the way he finished. Also Pawtucket currently has Brentz, Linares, Hazelbaker and Hassan in the outfield, so I'm thinking that an initial assignment to Portland is probably likely. At least I hope so, because I want to get a chance to see Bradley and Bogaerts on the same team without paying $40+ per ticket. :-)

     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 9:42 AM EST

    Here's what we KNOW:  Nava and Gomes will be less than mediocre all year.  We know exactly what we are going to get. 

     

    We can get less than mediocre with Bradley right now.  The difference is - Bradley is very talented and will actually improve during the season.

    No chance that Gomes imprves during the season - you are stuck with less than mediocre. 

    Tiny chance that Nava improves during the season.

    Go with the young guy who will improve.  If he scuffles ALL year - it is still just as good as Gomes or Nava.  But, if he improves because he is incredibly talented you end up much better off.

    Why is this so hard for the Red Sox managemnet to understand? 

     

     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 11:11 AM EST

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    Here's what we KNOW:  Nava and Gomes will be less than mediocre all year.  We know exactly what we are going to get. 

    Surely you realize that Gomes' offensive numbers last year were MUCH better than mediocre.  An OPS of 868, 18 HR and 47 RBI in only 279 AB.

     

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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 11:17 AM EST

    The difference from years ago is that many of these kids have four years of big time college experience. The fact is that they are no longer " kids " .  We should not keep them in the minors for too long.  Next thing you know they will be pushing thirty , and we will be talking about them starting to decline. Twenty three and twenty four is not too young to be in the big leagues.  If Bradley shows that he is one of our top three outfielders, he should make the team. Which position he plays is not all that important for now. Eventually , he will play center.

     

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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 11:24 AM EST

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

    Om Apr 19th, Bradley will be 22.




    I think he will turn 23 then.

     

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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 11:52 AM EST

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

     

    Here's what we KNOW:  Nava and Gomes will be less than mediocre all year.  We know exactly what we are going to get. 

     

     

    Surely you realize that Gomes' offensive numbers last year were MUCH better than mediocre.  An OPS of 868, 18 HR and 47 RBI in only 279 AB.



                 "surely you realize"

                    Your kidding, right. Schump is clueless.

                    The Sox added enough OF support in the offseason to allow a player like Bradley to further his development. Ell's should be either signed long term or traded at some point during the season. Bradley's time will come and the taste his getting in this years camp will only enhance his resume. Keeping him hungry never hurts either.

     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 12:00 PM EST

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

     

    Fred Lynn was 23 and Jim Rice 22 when they played their first full season in MLB. They both tore the cover off the ball. Today neither of them would have been allowed up until they were 24+.

     



    Lynn and rice both cruised in the minors.  Bradley had his moments, but also struggled at the AA level.  Not saying things aren't different these days and that the Sox aren't cautious to a fault in development.  But these cases are apples and oranges.  Lynn and Rice proved they were ready very quickly.

     

     

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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: If Jackie Bradley, Jr. Continues to Impress...

    posted at 2/27/2013 12:58 PM EST

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    Here's what we KNOW:  Nava and Gomes will be less than mediocre all year.  We know exactly what we are going to get. 

     

    We can get less than mediocre with Bradley right now.  The difference is - Bradley is very talented and will actually improve during the season.

    No chance that Gomes imprves during the season - you are stuck with less than mediocre. 

    Tiny chance that Nava improves during the season.

    Go with the young guy who will improve.  If he scuffles ALL year - it is still just as good as Gomes or Nava.  But, if he improves because he is incredibly talented you end up much better off.

    Why is this so hard for the Red Sox managemnet to understand? 

     




    Exactly.