If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    In response to FajitaT's comment:

     

    And I don't mean the WS MVP award as just about any player can win that on a given year... did he lead the league in homers? RBI? BA? Runs? .OBP? Did he win a Gold Glove?

     



    Really?  Anyone can hit .700+ for a world series on any given year?

     

     



    Don't speak in hyperbole... he only hit 688 with a 1.948 OPS... lol.... but yeah, anyone could do that.

     

    The averages and OPS of players in order after Papi are as follows

    http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/stats/sortable.jsp?c_id=bos#playerType=ALL&elem=%5Bobject+Object%5D&tab_level=child&click_text=Sortable+Player+hitting&game_type='W'&season=2013&season_type=ANY&league_code='MLB'&sectionType=sp&statType=hitting&page=1&ts=1393002438623&timeframe=

    Ells, 250 Avg, 599 OPS

    Xander, 238 Avg, 594 OPS

    Pedroia, 208 Avg, 532 OPS

    Ross, 188 Avg, 438 OPS

    Drew, 158 Avg, 506 OPS

    Napoli, 154 Avg, 445 OPS

    Vic, 154 Avg, 543 OPS

    Nava, 143 Avg, 357 OPS

    Gomes, 118 Avg, 580 OPS

     

     

    The Cards had 6 regulars with an OPS over 650 while hitting 250 or greater.  We had one... pay the F'n dude and let's get on with it.  Fans should shut the bleep up about this topic and respect what the dude did... no Papi, no world series.  Same goes for 2004.



    Baseball is certainly a team sport, but if there ever was a time one could possibly say that one player single-handedly took his team to a ring, it would be the 2014 Red Sox and Papi.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    The WHOLE team hit incredible in the Clutch. Especially with 2 outs and RISP. Not just Papi.

    Gomes had probably the biggest hit in the Series. 2 out 3 run HR, with Cards ahead in series 2-1, and losing in St. Louis at that point.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 808soxfan. Show 808soxfan's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    As I said in one of the many, many other threads on this topic:

    As long as Papi is MVP of the World Series, extend his contract at $15M/year.

    I believe that the Yanks would have snatched Papi up at Beltran money and years as well. 

    Papi is one of the leagues best hitters. If he continues to produce, keep extending him year by year. He is definitely good for business, so I don't know why the RS management is even hesitating. $15M/year is a steal for his skills. It was Papi's speech in the dugout that got the RS moving in the WS - not the manager and not Pedey...  Although, I still think that Pedey should be named team captain this year, but that is another thread.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    In response to 808soxfan's comment:

    As I said in one of the many, many other threads on this topic:

    As long as Papi is MVP of the World Series, extend his contract at $15M/year.

    I believe that the Yanks would have snatched Papi up at Beltran money and years as well. 

    Papi is one of the leagues best hitters. If he continues to produce, keep extending him year by year. He is definitely good for business, so I don't know why the RS management is even hesitating. $15M/year is a steal for his skills. It was Papi's speech in the dugout that got the RS moving in the WS - not the manager and not Pedey...  Although, I still think that Pedey should be named team captain this year, but that is another thread.




    One reason they could be waiting is that an extention has no effect on this year's payroll numbers, if signed after Opening Day.

    They'll probably do the same for Lester.

    Just a guess...

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    In response to 808soxfan's comment:

    As I said in one of the many, many other threads on this topic:

    As long as Papi is MVP of the World Series, extend his contract at $15M/year.

    I believe that the Yanks would have snatched Papi up at Beltran money and years as well. 

    Papi is one of the leagues best hitters. If he continues to produce, keep extending him year by year. He is definitely good for business, so I don't know why the RS management is even hesitating. $15M/year is a steal for his skills. It was Papi's speech in the dugout that got the RS moving in the WS - not the manager and not Pedey...  Although, I still think that Pedey should be named team captain this year, but that is another thread.



    I don't think management is hesitating 808.  Just handling business in due time.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    The WHOLE team hit incredible in the Clutch. Especially with 2 outs and RISP. Not just Papi.

    Gomes had probably the biggest hit in the Series. 2 out 3 run HR, with Cards ahead in series 2-1, and losing in St. Louis at that point.



    Playoffs per mlb.com...

    2 outs & runners in scoring position:

    Gomes 1 for 5

    Team 17 for 66 (.258) with 2 HRs and a 2B.

     

     

    Gomes was 2 for 6 Late & Close in the playoffs.

    Bogey 2 for 3, Ross & Nava1 for 2, Shane 2 for 6, and Ellsbury 3 for 8, but the rest stunk:

    Naps 1/7

    Salty & Pedey 1/6

    Drew 1/5

    Middy 0/5

     

    In the WS, the team was 4 for 13 Late & Close (per MLB.com).

    (Note: I'm not sure why Papi's grand slam vs Detroit did not count as Late & Close)

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    One reason they could be waiting is that an extention has no effect on this year's payroll numbers, if signed after Opening Day.

     

    They'll probably do the same for Lester.

    Just a guess...

    Yes, of course they will wait, even if they have an agreement before opening day.

    If and when they do extend him, watch for Papi bashers crying "extortion".

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    I ask because he EASILY could be, if he didn't pull this same stuff every season.

    Coming off his BLOWN ACHILLES, he basically demanded 2 years, saying a one year offer would be an insult. He also inferred that it would be his last contract. Didn't say it, but the undertones were there.

    Had he just accepted the 'insulting' 14 million qualifying, he would have made a lot of money, done what he did, be coming of a WS MVP and be a FA. 

    THEN he could get 2, even 3 years, probably at closer to 18-20 mil per. 

    But he didn't do that.

    Funny, Ortiz, himself, has metioned it being a business many times recently. And it is. You'd think he'd make better business decisions along the way. 

    This is MY issue. It's not about 15 per year. Is he worth it? Yes. Is he worth it for next year, right now? Probably. But if (when) the Sox give him that year, if he performs again this season...GUESS WHAT! He'll do it all over again. I'm tired of it. "He's just answering questions". Yup. And he's been doing that for 5 years. It gets the same response every time. And he acts somehow surprised and offended. You'd think he'd learn how to answer in a way that doesn't create the attention. Ah yes, he ENJOYS the attention. If you don't believe that, you're a fool. It's like a woman fishing for compliments. He says what he says, he KNOWS some writers will take issue, as well as some fans. He KNOWS more fans will back him and stroke his ego, as will people like pig-faced lying s l i m e b a l l hack writer Tom-fatass-e.

    You don't get it both ways. If he acknowledges it's a business...understand that and don't make threats about going elsewhere this season, or going to NYY after 2011. You can't play the 'business' card when it's convenient, then play the "im big papi and have done so much" when THAT is convenient. One or the other.

    Ortiz #34 Boston Red Sox 2003-... I love.

    David Ortiz public speaking...I would happily erase every sungle bit of it. I know that means losing "this is our fking ceetee", but that's one of the few positive quotable moments I remember in a sea of selfish ones.




    The blown achilles would be a be factor if he went to free agency.  yes, he made it thru most of last season but for any new team to lay out 30 million they would want on him the field all the time.  If he repeats 2012 for a new team then they don't recoup their investment.  The sox are at a point where if Ortiz does blow out the achilles again, they can have him do the luxury box tour and still feel they got their money's worth.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    In response to crowtrobot's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to FajitaT's comment:

    And I don't mean the WS MVP award as just about any player can win that on a given year... did he lead the league in homers? RBI? BA? Runs? .OBP? Did he win a Gold Glove?



    Really?  Anyone can hit .700+ for a world series on any given year?



    And he was robbed of a Grand Salami. FajitaT is challenging Bill as the dumbest poster on the board. 




    what, you want to pay him more because he was robbed of a grand slam?  Fajita asks simple questions to keep the discussion going.  Ortiz had a nice regular season but the answers to the questions asked are no. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    2012-2013 OPS (950+ PAs)

    1) Miggy 1.037

    2) Papi     .985

    3) Trout   .976

    4) Votto  .971

     



    Same players WAR last two seasons....

    Trout---20.4
    Cabrera-14.4
    Votto---11.8
    Ortiz---6.7

    That was 31.9 million of value over those two years. Papi is a DH. DH's don't get payed.

    Yes, the Yankees could offer Ortiz 1-17 or 2-32 next season. But so could the Red Sox. With that said, I am fine giving him a 1 year 15 million dollar extension if he looks like his normal self in Spring training. But it would be more of a reward then some kind of good deal. Will age finally catch up with Papi over the next two years? Probably.  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    This is a non-issue.  Lucchino says the extension is being worked on right now.  He said glowing things about Ortiz.  The Red Sox FO will look after him.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    In response to BMav's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    2012-2013 OPS (950+ PAs)

    1) Miggy 1.037

    2) Papi     .985

    3) Trout   .976

    4) Votto  .971

     



    Same players WAR last two seasons....

    Trout---20.4
    Cabrera-14.4
    Votto---11.8
    Ortiz---6.7

    That was 31.9 million of value over those two years. Papi is a DH. DH's don't get payed.

    Yes, the Yankees could offer Ortiz 1-17 or 2-32 next season. But so could the Red Sox. With that said, I am fine giving him a 1 year 15 million dollar extension if he looks like his normal self in Spring training. But it would be more of a reward then some kind of good deal. Will age finally catch up with Papi over the next two years? Probably.  



    I don't think Ortiz would ever agree to play for the Yankees. He has too much invested with the Red Sox. As long as the offer is reasonable here, he will take it and retire with the Sox.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?


    Offer Ortiz a Q.O. at the end of the year.

    He accepts and gets the 15 million he wanted.

    He declines and kills his own market, perhaps a 2/22 is worked out saving us in AAV. Or he walks.

    Worst case scenario we lose Papi, well two things.

    A.) we still have him for ONE more year this year.

    B.) we got over a decade of memories and amazing production from him.

    c.) If Papi does sign elsewhere he will be entering his age 40 season...is anyone really concerned about him burning us for years to come.

    d.) how many teams could brag they got the amount of production out of Papi as long as the Sox did paying him what they did AND get a draft pick for him after his age 39 season (I happen to think he would accept it or work out a smaller deal but this is a hypothetical)

     

    I won't complain if we extend Papi, I like him.  But if they choose to not do so.....it's not the end of the world.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    When Lucchino says something is going to happen, it happens.  He is the PR guy in the front office.  Ortiz's extension is as good as done.  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    When Lucchino says something is going to happen, it happens.  He is the PR guy in the front office.  Ortiz's extension is as good as done.  



    Agreed. It just makes too much sense to both sides not to happen, but they will wait to make it official after the season starts... then again, with the Dempster money freed up, maybe they'd prefer to take the early budget hit and keep more budget spade going forward.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    When Papi is 59 and on a one year billion dollar deal, he'll still be complaining about an extension.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    Ortiz is worth the money you guys.

    It's time to turn the page.

    How long do you feed a dead horse?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

    When Papi is 59 and on a one year billion dollar deal, he'll still be complaining about an extension.



    If he's still a 30-100 guy at 59, he can do whatever he wants.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?


    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    One reason they could be waiting is that an extention has no effect on this year's payroll numbers, if signed after Opening Day.

     

    They'll probably do the same for Lester.

    Just a guess...

     


    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Yes, of course they will wait, even if they have an agreement before opening day.

    If and when they do extend him, watch for Papi bashers crying "extortion".




    I've seen others suggest this including a talking head on TV

    while I understand the lester part

    why wait 2 announce it 4 papi

    how much of a raise does it take to really effect the tax

    if any part of this extension has anything to do with good will or PR

    seems like they wasting some of that by waiting

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:


    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    One reason they could be waiting is that an extention has no effect on this year's payroll numbers, if signed after Opening Day.

     

    They'll probably do the same for Lester.

    Just a guess...

     


    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Yes, of course they will wait, even if they have an agreement before opening day.

    If and when they do extend him, watch for Papi bashers crying "extortion".




    I've seen others suggest this including a talking head on TV

    while I understand the lester part

    why wait 2 announce it 4 papi

    how much of a raise does it take to really effect the tax

    if any part of this extension has anything to do with good will or PR

    seems like they wasting some of that by waiting




    crickets

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    5. Because of the rules in the Collective Bargaining Agreement, the extension counts as a new contract that begins next year. Gardner’s current average annual value — in terms of calculating the luxury tax — does not change based on the extension. Gardner is making $5.6 million this season, and Cashman said that’s what the Yankees will be charged in terms of luxury tax calculations for this season. It’s not until next year that Gardner’s AAV will increase.

    what am I missing here

     why do so many suggest

    the sox waited to announce the beckect extension ( not long enough)

    and now some R doing the same thing about the lester & ortiz extensions

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    In response to FajitaT's comment:

    I only see at best a 2 year $15 million per deal on the table for Ortiz if he were a FA - and then New York and Boston and Detroit aside he ends up on a play-off fringe team with a poor fan base.

    He would end up somewhere he did not really love and he would miss us as much as we he - and his homer totals for 2014 would be about 26 with maybe another 17-20 in 2015. A shadow of his former self in self-imposed exile.



    The loss of a draft pick might be worth $10M these days. That really hurts Papi's open market value, since he is not likely to sign more than a 2 year deal.

    His actual value to a team should be worth much more than $15M per, so the Sox are in the driving seat, but likely will act fairly towards Papi.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:


    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    One reason they could be waiting is that an extention has no effect on this year's payroll numbers, if signed after Opening Day.

     

    They'll probably do the same for Lester.

    Just a guess...

     


    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Yes, of course they will wait, even if they have an agreement before opening day.

    If and when they do extend him, watch for Papi bashers crying "extortion".




    I've seen others suggest this including a talking head on TV

    while I understand the lester part

    why wait 2 announce it 4 papi

    how much of a raise does it take to really effect the tax

    if any part of this extension has anything to do with good will or PR

    seems like they wasting some of that by waiting




    crickets




    I doubt anyone with an ounce of logic will be crying "extortion" when the Sox announce the Ortiz extension.

    With regards to why the Sox are waiting..I think the link posted by Soxchamps last week answers that question well. According to Ortiz' agent, he had not even approached the Sox FO about an extension. Supposedly the talks have just begun...so really..there is nothing to announce yet.

    I think everyone expects the Sox to give Ortiz a 1 year extension. It's such a no-brainer. I know this is the reason I was surprised at Ortiz' comments.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: If Ortiz were a FA right now, what would he get?

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    5. Because of the rules in the Collective Bargaining Agreement, the extension counts as a new contract that begins next year. Gardner’s current average annual value — in terms of calculating the luxury tax — does not change based on the extension. Gardner is making $5.6 million this season, and Cashman said that’s what the Yankees will be charged in terms of luxury tax calculations for this season. It’s not until next year that Gardner’s AAV will increase.

    what am I missing here

     why do so many suggest

    the sox waited to announce the beckect extension ( not long enough)

    and now some R doing the same thing about the lester & ortiz extensions



    zac, the only thing I can figure is that the rules on Gardner's extension are different because his $5.6 million was an arbitration award.

    It was well documented that the Sox waited on the Beckett and A-Gon extensions because by doing that the extensions weren't folded into the current year AAV calcs.

     

     
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