If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from peanutandme. Show peanutandme's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    Don't resign either, use the money to sign[or trade for] a closer, maybe Rodriguez, bell etc., and find a player who can hit .280 to .300, will hit with a little power, and can run better than Ortiz.  Someone I can think of would be Michael Cuddyer or someone with his same abilities.

    All Ortiz does[well not all] is clog up the bases and has no ability to be a decentdefensive player. His asking price is to  much for what he brings to the table.
    As for Papelbon, he will want 4 or 5 years at 15mil per year, and while he is still a very good closer, what we saw at the end of the year on sucessive days with the season hanging in the balance, does not bode well for the future with the Sox.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps... : The "cancer" logic outside of the RS inner circle that actually knows what's going on is a slippery slope. In part because from what we as fans have to judge, outside of who we "like" better what evidence is there that Papelbon was an issue? Ortiz on the other hand gave sound bites to the media about being upset he wasn't extended and again that he wasn't etxended mid year. he broke into the manager press conference to complain about credit for an RBI (supposedly a prank), second guessed the manager about not using Aceves as a starter and went public that it was time to panic. But that aside. I know this is non-commital but it is of course all about $$$ and years. Three years for a 36 year old DH is very scary, 4 years for any closer even one that has had 30 plus saves his first 6 years in MLB is scary. Either guy leaves a hole. Are the RS ready to become CBT payers or is the ceiling about what it was last season? A lot of variables here...but if I had to choose betwen 3 year at $36M for Ortiz or 3 years $42M for Papelbon, I'd take the closer.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    David has a lot of pride like most Dominican players and wants to know where his future stands.  David also cares about the team winning so I had no issue with him "second guessing" Tito.  If we had used someone other than Weiland 5 or 6 times in a row, or even Wake which we had no choice with, we may have been in the PS.

    David I would sign for two years with a third year team option and let Pap go.  I say this after watching Pap fail in the PS and late this season when we need a solid closer most. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...:
    [QUOTE]So if I had to chose between the two...I'd pass on both if that's an option, if it's not then Papi would be the logical choice in that neither of our division rivals would sign him The second thread has a poll attached and 4 options: Papi, Paps, both or neither.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Then I chose neither...

    I'd spent Papelbon's moneys on another starter and give Bard the ball and then bolster the staff with a couple of guys with big arms that might play in the late innings and then adjust as the season progresses...Closers can be had at any point during the season for the right price (see Krod to Milwaukee)...The pen or relivers are perhaps the easiest area to address during the season (see Texas).

    As for Papi, again if we're not concerned with say the Rays or the Yanks signing him? I am a very strong proponant of utelizing the 600 at bats for the DH in a platoon role and building a deeper bench, if say a veteran FA knows coming in that he's likely to get say 200 at bats in a DH role and another 300 plattoning in the field he's more likely to agree to come on board...That and Youk's ability to stay on the field gives me pause...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps... : Then I chose neither... I'd spent Papelbon's moneys on another starter and give Bard the ball and then bolster the staff with a couple of guys with big arms that might play in the late innings and then adjust as the season progresses...Closers can be had at any point during the season for the right price (see Krod to Milwaukee)...The pen or relivers are perhaps the easiest area to address during the season (see Texas). As for Papi, again if we're not concerned with say the Rays or the Yanks signing him? I am a very strong proponant of utelizing the 600 at bats for the DH in a platoon role and building a deeper bench, if say a veteran FA knows coming in that he's likely to get say 200 at bats in a DH role and another 300 plattoning in the field he's more likely to agree to come on board...That and Youk's ability to stay on the field gives me pause...
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

    Bean, Papi on the Rays or Yanks could be dangerous.  I don't feel the same about Paps right now.  David is a big bat nobody on this team or in the farm is ready to replace.  He would need to be replaced outside the club or beef up other areas like RF and SS.  I say keep David, sign a RF and find a strong starter.

    Try our best to dump Lackey, use Bard or give Heath Bell a shot who may be less expensive than Pap.  Maybe Jenks can return strong and there are also a few good relievers our there as FA's
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    Lets say the Sox sign a good RH hitting RFer ... then it makes the DH spot that less important. Especially if Crawford shows up next year.    Paps on the other hand has no replacement.  Bard was a tool and blew a ton of important games, and he doesn't even have the 9th inning pressure.  It would be NUTS to let Paps go. 

    Papi is my favorite player, I hope he accepts a 1 year deal to stay with Boston.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps... : Bean, Papi on the Rays or Yanks could be dangerous.  I don't feel the same about Paps right now.  David is a big bat nobody on this team or in the farm is ready to replace.  He would need to be replaced outside the club or beef up other areas like RF and SS.  I say keep David, sign a RF and find a strong starter. Try our best to dump Lackey, use Bard or give Heath Bell a shot who may be less expensive than Pap.  Maybe Jenks can return strong and there are also a few good relievers our there as FA's
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]


    Hey craze...

    Lots of way to skin the cat...

    As for replacing Papi's bat...while it will be difficult I would like to see us build more depth and unless by some small miracle we can find away to prop up Youkilis and get 600 "productive at bats" out out of him. Our lineup even with Papi simply isn't deep enough and as we saw when he went down this year. Our bench provided us with little pop...

    Call me crazy but I am a proponant of the following...let Papi walk, non tender Lowrie and Dmac...Sign Scutaro and then go hard after and land two RH OF bats with Cuddayer at the top of the list along with say Willingham or Juan Riverva...I'd also like them to see them go get Ryan Doumit to platoon with Salty and share the DH role all of them can platoon and share the DH spot with Youkilis...

    That would give us a lineup of...

    CF Ellsbury
    LF Crawford
    2B Pedrioa
    1B Gonzalez
    3B Youkilis
    RF Cuddayer
    DH Doumit/Willingham
    C   Saltalamacchia
    SS Scutaro

    Bench...Avilies, Iglesias, Willingham, Reddick, Conor Jackson...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps... : David has a lot of pride like most Dominican players and wants to know where his future stands.  David also cares about the team winning so I had no issue with him "second guessing" Tito.  If we had used someone other than Weiland 5 or 6 times in a row, or even Wake which we had no choice with, we may have been in the PS. David I would sign for two years with a third year team option and let Pap go.  I say this after watching Pap fail in the PS and late this season when we need a solid closer most. 
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]Well I understand prideful guys. And I am not into the cancer theory or the guessing games that seem to plague RS Nation right now.

    I stated that none of it should have an impact on the decisions for the 2012 roster. However, there was and is no basis to assume papelbon was an issue in that regard, in fact the GM last Thursday went out of his way to praise Papelbon on his emerging leadership during 2011.

    I was pointing out that out of the two players, that there was lots of circumstantial evidence that Ortiz may well have been one of the veterans who had his own agenda in 2011 and did not have others backs, including Francona who frankly has had Ortiz's back over the last 8 years plenty of times.

    It isn't an easy decision. The Angels probably felt better about not being able to afford K-Rod when he had all the off field issues but they have not been back to the playoffs since he left, in a very winnable division and a great starting rotation.

    Personally I am sick of hearing about Papelbon's problems in that final series in Baltimore. The tipping point was a great multi-inning performance in extra innings in NY. Then of course he had to be used in Baltimore. He was on fumes in that last game. But for all everybody forgets he just blew away the first two batters and was a strike away from a 1-2-3 out save.

    Either or both of these guys may be worth more to somebody else and if they are so be it. But it should be about the players value to the team, not what anybody did in tiny samples sets or that some one is part of this alleged cancer. IMO it wasn't a cancer, it was a case of the flu if health analogies must be used.

    Just my take


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps... : Well I understand prideful guys. And I am not into the cancer theory or the guessing games that seem to plague RS Nation right now. I stated that none of it should have an impact on the decisions for the 2012 roster. However, there was and is no basis to assume papelbon was an issue in that regard, in fact the GM last Thursday went out of his way to praise Papelbon on his emerging leadership during 2011. I was pointing out that out of the two players, that there was lots of circumstantial evidence that Ortiz may well have been one of the veterans who had his own agenda in 2011 and did not have others backs, including Francona who frankly has had Ortiz's back over the last 8 years plenty of times. It isn't an easy decision. The Angels probably felt better about not being able to afford K-Rod when he had all the off field issues but they have not been back to the playoffs since he left, in a very winnable division and a great starting rotation. Personally I am sick of hearing about Papelbon's problems in that final series in Baltimore. The tipping point was a great multi-inning performance in extra innings in NY. Then of course he had to be used in Baltimore. He was on fumes in that last game. But for all everybody forgets he just blew away the first two batters and was a strike away from a 1-2-3 out save. Either or both of these guys may be worth more to somebody else and if they are so be it. But it should be about the players value to the team, not what anybody did in tiny samples sets or that some one is part of this alleged cancer. IMO it wasn't a cancer, it was a case of the flu if health analogies must be used. Just my take
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Hey katz...
    I agree and I am not basing my opin on a small sample, but rather on the fact that he's not irreplaceable...Given the dynamics of the role itself...thus all things being equal, I'd rather use the funds to bolster the one area that was at the heart of the flu and that's the rotation....

    That said, I feel strongly that Papelbon is his own worst enemy and until he learns to trust his splitter, he'll continue to beat himself late in the year...This is not a small sample, but rather a body of work that has spanned now 4 seasons...Live by the fastball die by the fastball has been his motto and since his dominant post season performance of 2007 he's yet to finish the year strong and due to lack of command...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    Papelbon.....lets say 55 games  110 runners he allowed to reach base...,,,,,30 saves.....(9 Million)

         Good bye


    Papi........135 games.......32 hrs.....100 rbis.....12 Million..

    he stays....
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    They are both the best FAs available this year at what they do. Papelbon led all relivers in the AL in WAR as did Ortiz amongst DH's.

    One guy is in his prime years, the other has one toe in his twilight. This will not be an easy decision be it both an either or or none of the above! :)
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    Papi is 36 next month and slid backward in September, very possibly because he was tired. 

    Papelbon is one of the best closers in baseball, but is going to want Fort Knox to stay (or to go elsewhere). 

    My vote is to offer both, but not offer too much.  No way Papi is worth three years or more than $10M per year--so $20M for two is it.  Papelbon should be offered $36M for three years. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hambonawilliams. Show hambonawilliams's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    Screw Fat Papi and say "buh-bye"...we'll always have Papi Chips to remember him by...re-sign Paps....nuff said...keep it simple...
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    I say paps...Papi is awesome for what he does but the shelf life is a bit short,,,but i would give serious thought to letting both walk for draft picks - especially since our minors look depleted
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...:
    [QUOTE]I say paps...Papi is awesome for what he does but the shelf life is a bit short,,,but i would give serious thought to letting both walk for draft picks - especially since our minors look depleted
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    I actually agree with you on this one, even though it will break my heart to see Papi don a different uniform, especially one with pinstripes. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

                               Well Moon, ....I lobbied for a (2) yr. deal for Ortiz last year and they gave him (1). Time to fish or cut bait. Cut them both. With that said, concentrate on rebuilding the right side of the infield. If Youk looks good in Spring Training go with him at third and give Aviles the SS job. If Aviles is a better fit at 3rd. then go with him there and Youk can DH for a while while we fill with a younger better defensive SS. In the outfield, LF and CF stay the same. If they like Reddick out of ST then go with him. If not trade him. A package of Reddick and Lars from Mars might look pretty good to teams losing a 1st. baseman.   Just a suggestion on ways to control payroll, replenish the farm, and get faster and younger. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    Bean, I understand your point on the "neither" vote.

    To me, no closer save Mo has ever been worth over $13M/yr, let alone for 3-5 years like Paps might get. He will be missed, but the I look at what else we can get for $13-14M/yr and I don't think Bard is as bad as some here think.

    To me, Papi will be hard to replace and even harder to watch in a Rays uniform. I think the Yanks are keeping their DH slot open for ARod and his bum hip (just in case). I like the idea of prolonging Youk's career by letting him DH 30-50% of the games, letting AGon "rest" with 10% at DH, and giving the rest to Lowrie and Lavarnway.

    I'm always for upgrading the rotation from the top (or at least the middle), and signing Papi and Paps would mean that can't happen unless we greatly increase our payroll budget or get lucky with guys like Colon and Garcia for the Yanks this year. Maybe Theo can find two more Aceves, and a quality RF bat that would compensate for the loss of Papi.

    Sidenote: our worst positional OPS last year was not catcher (.737). It was not SS (730). It was not LF (.723). It was RF (.652). If we could get an .800 OPS RF'er (or Rf platoon), we could afford to go from .925 at DH in 2011 to .775 and (in theory) break even. I think we could do this at way less than the $10-12M/yr it will take to bring back Papi.

    It's a tough call. One day I want Papi back, the next day Paps, the next day both, and the next day I see the logic in neither. I do know a starting pitcher is my top priority, so I guess I'd try to land one early, and then see what's left over for other decisions.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from saintJ. Show saintJ's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...:
    [QUOTE]Papelbon.....lets say 55 games  110 runners he allowed to reach base...,,,,,30 saves.....(9 Million)    
    Posted by fishers5[/QUOTE]

    Where do you get those numbers?  That would give him a whip of 2, when his real whip is 1.  He only put 63 men on base in 63 innings.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...:
    [QUOTE]Bean, I understand your point on the "neither" vote. To me, no closer save Mo has ever been worth over $13M/yr, let alone for 3-5 years like Paps might get. He will be missed, but the I look at what else we can get for $13-14M/yr and I don't think Bard is as bad as some here think. To me, Papi will be hard to replace and even harder to watch in a Rays uniform. I think the Yanks are keeping their DH slot open for ARod and his bum hip (just in case). I like the idea of prolonging Youk's career by letting him DH 30-50% of the games, letting AGon "rest" with 10% at DH, and giving the rest to Lowrie and Lavarnway. I'm always for upgrading the rotation from the top (or at least the middle), and signing Papi and Paps would mean that can't happen unless we greatly increase our payroll budget or get lucky with guys like Colon and Garcia for the Yanks this year. Maybe Theo can find two more Aceves, and a quality RF bat that would compensate for the loss of Papi. Sidenote: our worst positional OPS last year was not catcher (.737). It was not SS (730). It was not LF (.723). It was RF (.652). If we could get an .800 OPS RF'er (or Rf platoon), we could afford to go from .925 at DH in 2011 to .775 and (in theory) break even. I think we could do this at way less than the $10-12M/yr it will take to bring back Papi. It's a tough call. One day I want Papi back, the next day Paps, the next day both, and the next day I see the logic in neither. I do know a starting pitcher is my top priority, so I guess I'd try to land one early, and then see what's left over for other decisions.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]


    This is precisely why I don't look at it in terms of what I personally want.
    I gave up window shopping years ago.

    It's a matter of what the FO is realistically going to do. In that light, I see no way they will keep Bard in the set-up role with a 4-year deal to Paps.
    Bard has been primed to be a cost-efficient closer. In fact, it's really not even an issue, unless Bard gets hurt between now and FA negotiations.

    Ya don't dish out 30-40 mil for a closer when you have a guy who will likely do as well, or close to it.

    Papi is also a simple call IMO. He can hit and they will be very hard-pressed to replace his production. So, they give him a deal better than market value and he retires in Boston. And if/when his regression begins, they begin to slide Youk into the role and platoon Papi.

    The real issue is replacing Bard's role.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    Papelbon, but sentimentalists will point to Papi
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps... : This is precisely why I don't look at it in terms of what I personally want. I gave up window shopping years ago. It's a matter of what the FO is realistically going to do. In that light, I see no way they will keep Bard in the set-up role with a 4-year deal to Paps. Bard has been primed to be a cost-efficient closer. In fact, it's really not even an issue, unless Bard gets hurt between now and FA negotiations. Ya don't dish out 30-40 mil for a closer when you have a guy who will likely do as well, or close to it. Papi is also a simple call IMO. He can hit and they will be very hard-pressed to replace his production. So, they give him a deal better than market value and he retires in Boston. And if/when his regression begins, they begin to slide Youk into the role and platoon Papi. The real issue is replacing Bard's role.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    I see the logic here, harness. Well put, but part of the winter fun for some of us, is to determine what we would do, then compare to what actually happened. The other fun thing for some is to try and predict what the FO will actually do. You call make sense in this latter area.

    The "wild card" is that Theo may offer Papi a slightly above market value out of loyalty, but ti would go against his grain. Papi will probably net a draft pick if he walks, so offering more than market value would be a rarity, since it seams that Theo deducts value from an offer based on the value of those draft picks in exchange. Will some other team offer more? If so, Theo does not raise his offers to his own players...at least I never recall it happening.

    I don't see the Yanks offering more than 1 year. They need the DH slot for ARod soon.

    TB can not outbid Theo, unless they see the move as an overall big gain by subtracting him from their biggest opponent and adding him to their line-up behind Longoria and Zobrist (and Jennings).

    Who else? The Angels? Baltimore? Toronto?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    Resigning Papelbon is about years, not 2012 budget increase. Papelbon made 12M this year. The Yankees will do nothing but bluff and will not inflate the market. Rivera gets 15M, and without the Yankees there is no way Papelbon is getting a multi-year contract at 15M base.

    Papelbon can be resigned at about 13M (#2 behind Rivera and can't make new market for closers like he wants to because the Yankees will be absent and no other big market team is going to multi-year more than that) It might take 3 years, 1 year too long for mileage and years and delivery on Papelbon, but if Bard can be converted into a decent #4 or #5 starter, they should make first offer of:

    1st Offer: 13M x 2 Player opt out year2 13M Mutual year 3 & 4M B-out Yr 3

    If the new pitching coach and new manager and new GM are sure Bard can be converted into at least a good league #4 or #5 starter, make that the first offer. If Bard is a risky conversion, and market is more than 1st offer, make that the final offer:

    Final Offer: 13M x 2 + Player Opt out Year 2 + Player unilateral Option Yr 3 13M

    Virtual Zero impact on 2012 budget from 2011 budget

    Ortiz should be resigned via following offers for quality 2011 Dh year with the 2nd best team OPS behind Agon and one of the league leaders in OPS (Market for Ortiz is probably no more than 1 year and 8 to 10M, but he has earned his small golden parachute:

    Offer 1: 14M + Mutual Option Year 2 6M (1.5 increase)

    Yankees, despite Arord, will have laying in the weeds interest on Ortiz. They will not Dh Arod but a small fraction of 2012, and will not be bringing Posada back to Dh. They also will not be using dh Jeter role in 2012.

     Offer 2: If Yankees go 2, not likely, offer 2 years @ 10 to 12M and close the deal. Most likely Ortiz has no more than one partial season to one season left of quality DH production, but he has earned his parachute.

    Unlike Wastefield and Lowell, if at any time Ortiz washes up, offer him retirement ceremony or release him if need be. Do not waste active roster spots on old veterans who are no longer able to produce the necessary level of production to be on the active roster.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps... : I see the logic here, harness. Well put, but part of the winter funfor some of us, is to determine what we would do, then compare to what actually happened. The other fun thing for some is to try and predict what the FO will actually do. You call make sense in this latter area. The "wild card" is that Theo may offer Papi a slightly above market value out of loyalty, but ti would go against his grain. Papi will probably net a draft pick if he walks, so offering more than market value would be a rarity, since it seams that Theo deducts value from an offer based on the value of those draft picks in exchange. Will some other team offer more? If so, Theo does not raise his offers to his own players...at least I never recall it happening. I don't see the Yanks offering more than 1 year. They need the DH slot for ARod soon. TB can not outbid Theo, unless they see the move as an overall big gain by subtracting him from their biggest opponent and adding him to their line-up behind Longoria and Zobrist (and Jennings). Who else? The Angels? Baltimore? Toronto?
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]


    Yes, I realize it's the thing to do around here after the season ends.
    I don't mean to play scrooge. It's just that trying to look at all the possible scenarios and breaking themn down as opposed to what the FO will likely do is like critiquing WAR & PEACE as opposed to a short story.

    I do think the FO showed loyalty to Papi already when they picked up his 2011 option year. They could have waited until they saw his actual market worth for his services. They wouldn't risk it then, and they have less reason to now, given the year he had and the problem replacing it.

    If they get cheap, any number of teams will fork out a 2 or maybe 3 year deal to get what he brings to a team. It's been done for lesser players.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    I agree with Harness. Re-sign Ortiz to a 1 year deal, with maybe a vesting option for a second year based on at-bats, or games played. Let Papelbon sign elsewhere. The draft picks could prove more valuable.

    Now I'm not sure Bard should be closer, let alone a fourth or fifth starter, so maybe the Red Sox ought to look at replacing Papelbon with a cheaper 9th inning option, such as Jonathan Broxton, Matt Capps, Octavio Dotel, Kyle Farnsworth, Frank Francisco, Ryan Madson, George Sherrill, Kerry Wood, Joel Zumaya, etc. Other relievers to add to the 7th/8th inning mix could be Lance Cormier, Juan Cruz, Jason Frasor, Mike Gonzalez, LaTroy Hawkins, Joel Peralta, Chris Ray, and Brian Tallet. There are lots of solid names on that list, including guys with success in the AL East.

    The only reasonably affordable replacement for Ortiz's production would be Jim Thome, who would cost 50-75% less and would almost definitely agree to a 1 year deal. In only 277 at-bats, he hit 15 HR, drove in 50 runs, and posted an .838 OPS, with a .361 OBA. Could a 42-yearold Thome give the Red Sox 400-at bats at DH, with the rest coming from some kind of combination of Youkilis and Lavarnway? It might be worth the risk if Ortiz demands too much. I'm betting Thome could be had for 1 year/$4 million. He earned $3 million in 2011.

    Leave RF for Kalish and Reddick. The crop of outfield free agents is weak, unless the Indians decide to decline their option on Grady Sizemore. The Red Sox could maybe invite Milton Bradley to spring training, although that would certainly pose a challenge to team chemistry.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    Teams haven't forked over $30+M for 3 years of a DH-only type player in a long long time. Now, it is a certainty that Papi blows away all the other DH-only type players in his recent performance.

    Theo will set a price for bot Papi and Paps, and he won't budge. He'll take the draft picks if someone offers more, and use the money elsewhere and build the farm at the same time.
     
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    Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...

    In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: If you had to choose between Papi and Paps... : Hey craze... Lots of way to skin the cat... As for replacing Papi's bat...while it will be difficult I would like to see us build more depth and unless by some small miracle we can find away to prop up Youkilis and get 600 "productive at bats" out out of him. Our lineup even with Papi simply isn't deep enough and as we saw when he went down this year. Our bench provided us with little pop... Call me crazy but I am a proponant of the following...let Papi walk, non tender Lowrie and Dmac...Sign Scutaro and then go hard after and land two RH OF bats with Cuddayer at the top of the list along with say Willingham or Juan Riverva...I'd also like them to see them go get Ryan Doumit to platoon with Salty and share the DH role all of them can platoon and share the DH spot with Youkilis... That would give us a lineup of... CF Ellsbury LF Crawford 2B Pedrioa 1B Gonzalez 3B Youkilis RF Cuddayer DH Doumit/Willingham C   Saltalamacchia SS Scutaro Bench...Avilies, Iglesias, Willingham, Reddick, Conor Jackson...
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

    Undersood Bean, I'm not personally a fan of Doumit/Willinghah at DH.  I think Lavarnway is bright and talented enouigh to make an impack sooner rather than later.  I also think Y. Molina could make a huge difference in making Salty a much better all round catcher.
     
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