If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    In response to manosome's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to illinoisredsox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Biggest reason to oppose Obamacare is who is running it.  The Federal Government will screw it up sooner or later; they always do.  The special interests will come in, and carve out this exception or gain that benefit, and eventually the whole thing will get polluted.  It's already happened with the corporate mandate delay. 

    Do we need to look any farther than the tax code to see this?

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey mental midget, who do you think runs Medicare?

    [/QUOTE]


    Yup, and it only took them 50 years get it right.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    In response to manosome's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to manosome's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to illinoisredsox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Biggest reason to oppose Obamacare is who is running it.  The Federal Government will screw it up sooner or later; they always do.  The special interests will come in, and carve out this exception or gain that benefit, and eventually the whole thing will get polluted.  It's already happened with the corporate mandate delay. 

    Do we need to look any farther than the tax code to see this?

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey mental midget, who do you think runs Medicare?

    [/QUOTE]


    Yup, and it only took them 50 years get it right.

    [/QUOTE]

    Well, it took the SOX 86 years. Now this is a baseball post.

    [/QUOTE]


    Finally!!  Wink

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    Ah yes, the classic name calling begins.  While I diasagree with Softy on a lot of stuff, idiots like you just don't seem to get the fact that opposing a policy or philosophy does not make one a racist/sexist or whatever ist you want to throw out there.  I don't believe in big Government, period.  Held the same view under Bush and Clinton.  As for Mr. Obama, I not only oppose his political philosophy, but find him utterly unqualified to be President.  How in the world two terms in the Illinois State Senate followed by 2 years (not terms, years) in the US Senate qualifies anyone to be President is beyond me.  Now had he completed a term or more in the Senate and then served as Governor of Illinois for a term or 2, then at least there's some relevant experience.  But that's not where he was in 2008 (of course, this latter qualification would require he stay out of jail, something our last 3 Governors have failed to avoid, but I digress).  Nothing to do with race and everything to do with philosophy and experience.   

     

    The namecalling/demonizing of oppoosing views is one of the reasons things don't get done in Washington these days.

     

    As for Medicare, the program it is now has been phased in over the past 50 years or so.  Part D was only added a few years ago.  It is also much more limited in scope (seniors only, a much smaller demographic than 300+ million people).

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    Obama has gotten almost nothing because he refuses to acknowledge that the other side exists for anything other than bashing.  

    If this is what you really think, there's no reply to make.

    You have Republican Congressmen voting against their own proposals once Obama agrees with their point. Do some homework.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    You are absolutely correct that in all House races Democratics received 1.4MM votes more than Republicans but to say that gerrymandering is the reason Rebublicans hold the Majority is MSNBC like craziness.....the reason for the 1.4MM difference and more,  is that the Democrats got 2.86MM votes more than Republicans in California alone, where Democrast won 38 of 53 seats and 1.9MM more Votes In NY, where Democrats won 21 of 27 seats....both very Democratic States. now run by Democratic Governors...take that out of the equation and 3.5MM more Americans voted for the Majority Party....so unless you are claiming the 21 Republican seats in California/NY were all due to Gerry Mandering, which still wouldnt cover the 33 Seat Majority...the Republicans having a Majoriity in the House is a good representation of the America.

    So, you agree a voter in montana should have 18 times the congressional power than one from California. Sounds real democratic to me.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    Let me assure you that the system was already broken before the Affordable Healthcare Act. I know. I am on the inside of it. I worked in ERs where lots of people went to receive primary care because they didn't have a doctor to go to. In the ER thousands of dollars in unnecessary tests can be ordered because ER doctors are not primary care doctors and feel the need for more tests and XRays to validate their opinion and to cover themselves legally. I hardly ever orderer lab tests on children because I had a level of experience that allowed me to feel very comfortable in most cases without them. And I ordered fewer medications than ER docs do too. Who do you think pays for those ER visits by the uninsured? Thats right: YOU. You pay for it through inflated insurance premiums charged by your carrier because of inflated hospital costs incurred in part by having to care for the uninsured. Obamacare is certainly not perfect; projects like this NEVER get it totally right the first time. But its a start. It will need to be tweaked and retweaked. I am relieved that finally someone has done something to cure a broken system.

    Logic won't work on closed-minded clowns.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You are absolutely correct that in all House races Democratics received 1.4MM votes more than Republicans but to say that gerrymandering is the reason Rebublicans hold the Majority is MSNBC like craziness.....the reason for the 1.4MM difference and more,  is that the Democrats got 2.86MM votes more than Republicans in California alone, where Democrast won 38 of 53 seats and 1.9MM more Votes In NY, where Democrats won 21 of 27 seats....both very Democratic States. now run by Democratic Governors...take that out of the equation and 3.5MM more Americans voted for the Majority Party....so unless you are claiming the 21 Republican seats in California/NY were all due to Gerry Mandering, which still wouldnt cover the 33 Seat Majority...the Republicans having a Majoriity in the House is a good representation of the America.

    So, you agree a voter in montana should have 18 times the congressional power than one from California. Sounds real democratic to me.

     

    [/QUOTE

    Moon we are not a Democracy, we are a Republic. If you read the

    Federalist papers, there was well thought out reasons 

    why Senators were not proportional. Which is why it is important not 

    to demean the will of the House which is proportional! 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Obama has gotten almost nothing because he refuses to acknowledge that the other side exists for anything other than bashing.  

    If this is what you really think, there's no reply to make.

    You have Republican Congressmen voting against their own proposals once Obama agrees with their point. Do some homework.

    [/QUOTE]

    If you think Democrats aren't doing the same thing, there's no reply to be made either.

     

    George Washington feared that loyalty to party would outstrip national interest when the parties started under Adams and Jefferson. With the creation of politically safe districts by both sides, it has reached the point we are at now.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    In response to 2013soxchamps' comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 2013soxchamps' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Constitition gives sole power to the Congress on appropriations. There is "no law" that has to be "funded"by any House.


    Once a law is passed its the law and its the obligation of our government to fund it. If they didn't want to pass the law then THAT is the time to religate it to obscurity. Its pretty stupid to pass laws that require money then not find the money to pay for them. I doubt thats the way its supposed to work. The fact of the matter is that 20% of the nation held the other 80% hostage with their outrageous demands. That should NEVER happen. I would have the same opinion if the ACLU, the unions, or AARP did that to the majority. All of them are fringe elements that need to be marginalized so progress can be made by the  more reasonable people in Congress. Harm was done to the economy to the tune of $24 billion dollars or so due to the extortion by the  tea party. Fortunately, the tea party took a ratings hit. I hope the House republicans have learned a lesson from this.

    By the way, your post is too long. Nobody reads stuff that is that long. Get to the point and condense your rhetoric.




    We know, lefties like to pass bills before reading them.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Shows your ignorance of how it works. For your education: most congressmen do NOT read bills in their entirety before they vote on them. They hire people to do that. This is true of both parties. A few congressmen do read the entire bill. Can you name any who did? Comments like yours certainly confirm what I already knew about you.

    [/QUOTE]

    Care to share?

    [/QUOTE]

    Do your own homework. Here is a small piece of proof that its impossible for any congressman to read bills in their entirety. Its about a proposed piece of legislation (as yet not passed to the best of my knowledge) that would require them to do so. But the bills are thousands of pages long in many cases, and are sometimes not even presented to the elected official at all. Again, your comment about "lefties" not reading the bill attests to your ignorance on the subject: 

     

    The Read the Bills Act (RTBA) is proposed legislation intended to require the United States Congress to read the legislation that it passes. It was originally written in 2006[1] by Downsize DC, a non-profit organization focused on decreasing the size of the federal government. The proposed act is a response to the passing of bills that are thousands of pages long and are passed without copies being made available to the members of Congress who vote on the bill. The bill is aimed at limiting the size and growth of the federal government.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    In response to tomnev's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 2013soxchamps' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Constitition gives sole power to the Congress on appropriations. There is "no law" that has to be "funded"by any House.


    Once a law is passed its the law and its the obligation of our government to fund it. If they didn't want to pass the law then THAT is the time to religate it to obscurity. Its pretty stupid to pass laws that require money then not find the money to pay for them. I doubt thats the way its supposed to work. The fact of the matter is that 20% of the nation held the other 80% hostage with their outrageous demands. That should NEVER happen. I would have the same opinion if the ACLU, the unions, or AARP did that to the majority. All of them are fringe elements that need to be marginalized so progress can be made by the  more reasonable people in Congress. Harm was done to the economy to the tune of $24 billion dollars or so due to the extortion by the  tea party. Fortunately, the tea party took a ratings hit. I hope the House republicans have learned a lesson from this.

    By the way, your post is too long. Nobody reads stuff that is that long. Get to the point and condense your rhetoric.

    [/QUOTE]


    We know, lefties like to pass bills before reading them.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    And yet, a good portion of the Right believes the Earth is 9000 yrs old; educational textbooks in Texas that say otherwise are banned; and the Left are low-information  voters.

    [/QUOTE]

    NH.....Pumpsie....Moon....I just want to  say that I respect your opinions on this and thus far have found any debate to be cordial and informational....I have a feeling we agree more than we disagree on whether a problem exists, just not on how it should be fixed and If the HealthCare helps or makes the problem worse.....thats why it was a bad political move on the Repubs part...their best political move is to let the Healthcare act fail, since they have staked out the opposition to it....that would have been in their best interest. The tea Party should have stuckl with what their core belief is....smaller government spending and lower taxes.....and if as is claimed the HCA drives up the deficit and Government spending....CBO estimates are more than double what was originally thought when passed...then agin they have staked out the right side politcally.

    I have tried to stay away from Left/Right name calling....because though I consider myself a Fiscal Conservative, I am middle of the road if not left leaning when it comes to Govt involvement in Social Issues.....I would say I was a Libertarian, but they lose me on National Defense, as does the Military Right wing of the Republican Party.

    Any responses you gave were filled with Facts as you know or believe them to be....and if our people in Washington could discuss issues on that basis rather than on Party Lines...we would be in alot better shape.

    I do find it interesting that the posters who rely on factual information when posting about Baseball are the same who use Factual information when posting about Politics.....keep up the good work on all points guys.

      

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks. But I think most of what Moon, NH, and I are expressing ARE opinions. Most of my own frustration is that the fringe interests were able to hold the rest of the country hostage in a futile effort to extract concessions, and effort that was doomed from the beginning. In order for progress to be made I think that the fringe elements on BOTH sides need to be marginalized and their potential for financial influence on our elected officials markedly reduced so that those guys can do their jobs without worrying about getting the support from the nuts on the edges. I believe I have a different perspective on the AHCA than most here because I have worked on the inside of a broken medical system...but its still an opinion and I am not presenting my opinion as fact.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    According to the annual kaiser family foundation employer health benefits survey, average premium for family coverage grew by $2,976 by the end of obama's first term.

     

    Did you read the whole report?

    The report says premiums went up 9%, sorry yours went up 40%, but the fact later stated was this...

    "Since 2001, family premiums have increased 113 percent, compared with 34 percent for workers’ wages and 27 percent for inflation."

    The increase has been about 10% for many years in a row now, under Bush and Obama.

    Yes, Obama's promise have rang hollow, but blaming rate increases on Obamacare is hard to prove, since we don't know how much they might have gone up without it.



    It's not hard to prove at all.  Rates went up because insurance companies were preparing for obamacare.  

    Under obamacare 

    They knew about Obamacare in 2001, 2002, 2003....?

     

    1. Plans can no longer impose annual or lifetime limits on how much health care coverage people may receive

     

    2. they must offer dependent coverage for young adults until age 26.  Shouldn't these adults have jobs?  Under obama the recovery is very, very slow.  Maybe if the economy was better 26 year olds would have jobs with insurance.

     

    3. unless grandfathered, health plans will aso be required to cover certain preventive care services at no cost.  This list goes on...

    I never said I liked Obamacare or Obama. I never voted for him.

     

    Who is going to pay for all this?  

    We've been paying for the unisured all along anyways, but often paying more than needed, because they didn't get treatment until it was too late and more costly.

     

    Who is going to pay for the uninsured.  Those of us who have jobs will.  Those of us who don't get any breaks on obamacare will.  We don't work on the hill and we are not union workers!

    You are arguing against a strawman.

     

    If this plan is so great why do our elected officials get a pass?  What about unions?  The unions, who backed it, want more breaks because they can't afford to insure their members under obamacare.  They will have to cut hours so they can have more part time employees.

    A friend lost his job due to obama's sequestration.  His wife had to go on medicare.  She can't find a doctor to take her.  Doctors don't want medicare patients because of obamacare.

    This is a bad program and the next ten years will prove it.

    We'll never know how bad things would have been 10 years from now without Obamacare. We were heading towards a catastophe either way.

    That's my point.

    My insurance is going up 4% this year. That's the best I've seen in years. I've had to see "in netwrok" doctors for 8 years. I could choose my own, but pay way more and have a higher deductable. That was the same then and now.

    I feel bad for people who got squeezed. Your case sounds drastic, and I'd be upset too. I wasn't happy when 6 years ago, my deductable went up from $500 to $1000 and my premium rose the next year by 15%, either. That was under Bush and the first year of Obama.  My wife didn't get a raise, because her company said their share of insurance went up so much, that that was her "raise".

    No plan is perfect. No system is perfect, but certainly a system where anyone can not get the care they need is not the right system. It should be a basic right of any living person. 

    [/QUOTE]

    My case isn't as uncommon as you may think.  I'm in this sinking ship with lots of people.

    Right now life is pretty good for you and others but that won't be the case in years to come. 

    Taxes levied on health insurers ($101.7 billion) drug manufacturers ($34.2 billion), and medical device manufacturers ($29.1 billion) nominally are levied on big corporations.  But everyone knows these ultimately will be passed along to consumers in the form of premium increases or high-out of pocket-spending so says the congressional budget office.

    Things are going to worsen for you, me and everyone else.

    Oliver Wyman, a well-known international consulting fiirm, has estimated the health  insurers tax alone is expected to increase premium for single coverage by a minimun of $2,150 over the next 10 years while boosting family premiums by $5,080 during the same period.  Even older people on medicare advantage plans, who tend to have lower than average incomes, will see premiums go up by $3,590 over 10 years according to the oliver wyman calclations.  The new limits on flex spending and the higher threshold for deductiong medical expenses from one's income tax will hit you in the pockerbook.  

    The people obama said he wanted to help will shoulder close to 70 percent of obamacar's tax burden.

    His own treasury department said obama has put us on a fiscal path that is unsustainable.

    We are still in the honeymoon phase right now.  The worst is yet to come and you won't get off as easy as you think.  I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

    Obama wants a single payer system so this is the first step for him.

    I don't know where we would be in ten years without obamacare but I do know the future looks very bleak with obamacare.

    Do we really want the IRS in charge of all this?  That, for me, is a very scary thought.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    In response to illinoisredsox's comment:

     

    Ah yes, the classic name calling begins.  While I diasagree with Softy on a lot of stuff, idiots like you just don't seem to get the fact that opposing a policy or philosophy does not make one a racist/sexist or whatever ist you want to throw out there

    I think it's easier for some use name calling because they can't make a good logical argument.

     

    I don't believe in big Government, period

     

    Neither did our founding fathers.  After the constitution was written ben franklin was asked:

    “Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”

    He replied:

    "A republic, if you can keep it."

    I guess the majority of americans don't want to keep it.

     

     

     

    Held the same view under Bush and Clinton.  As for Mr. Obama, I not only oppose his political philosophy, but find him utterly unqualified to be President How in the world two terms the Illinois State Senate followed by 2 years (not terms, years) in the US Senate qualifies anyone to be President is beyond me. 

     

    Can you imagine hiring a lawyer to defend you in an important case with little experience.  Yet the country hired this man.

    I think Soros, progressives and the national progressive media got the man elected.  Not to mention those who want free handouts.

     

     

    Now had he completed a term or more in the Senate and then served as Governor of Illinois for a term or 2, then at least there's some relevant experience.  But that's not where he was in 2008 (of course, this latter qualification would require he stay out of jail, something our last 3 Governors have failed to avoid, but I digress).  Nothing to do with race and everything to do with philosophy and experience.   

     

    The namecalling/demonizing of oposing views is one of the reasons things don't get done in Washington these days.

    Sounds like some on this board LOL!  Have you read anything from doctor ben carson?  He complains about this.  A very smart man with some great ideas.

     

    As for Medicare, the program it is now has been phased in over the past 50 years or so.  Part D was only added a few years ago.  It is also much more limited in scope (seniors only, a much smaller demographic than 300+ million people).

     




     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You are absolutely correct that in all House races Democratics received 1.4MM votes more than Republicans but to say that gerrymandering is the reason Rebublicans hold the Majority is MSNBC like craziness.....the reason for the 1.4MM difference and more,  is that the Democrats got 2.86MM votes more than Republicans in California alone, where Democrast won 38 of 53 seats and 1.9MM more Votes In NY, where Democrats won 21 of 27 seats....both very Democratic States. now run by Democratic Governors...take that out of the equation and 3.5MM more Americans voted for the Majority Party....so unless you are claiming the 21 Republican seats in California/NY were all due to Gerry Mandering, which still wouldnt cover the 33 Seat Majority...the Republicans having a Majoriity in the House is a good representation of the America.

    So, you agree a voter in montana should have 18 times the congressional power than one from California. Sounds real democratic to me.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    A couple of weeks ago, Brian Williams was on Letterman; he showed what the Congressional district maps looked like in NC and Wisc; instead of neat geographical partitions, which is what I recall decades ago, they looked like a spaghetti bowl. We can thank those new political algorithms and the Supreme Court for that.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    So, you agree a voter in montana should have 18 times the congressional power than one from California. Sounds real democratic to me.

     

    [/QUOTE

    Moon we are not a Democracy, we are a Republic. If you read the

    Federalist papers, there was well thought out reasons 

    why Senators were not proportional. Which is why it is important not 

    to demean the will of the House which is proportional! 

     

    Yes, I know we are a Republic, but don't pretend the House represents the majority of American views. I'm not saying it isn't a necessary check on a tyranical majority, but for the clear minority party to hold a gun to the head of the economy is not my idea of a precedent worthy of pursuit.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    In response to illinoisredsox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Obama has gotten almost nothing because he refuses to acknowledge that the other side exists for anything other than bashing.  

    If this is what you really think, there's no reply to make.

    You have Republican Congressmen voting against their own proposals once Obama agrees with their point. Do some homework.

    [/QUOTE]

    If you think Democrats aren't doing the same thing, there's no reply to be made either.

     

    [/QUOTE]



    Really? The Democrats are fillibustering their own bills? proposing bills and when the Republicans agree, then vote against it?

    We saw Republicans vote aginst bills with their own names on them.

    Imagine if the Democratic party had said, we will shut down the government and not pay out obligations, unless you end the Vietnam war, or defund Star Wars, and then actually shut it down for 16 days? The right wing would have gone nutty.

    Look, I know the Dems play politics too, but clearly this latest tactic was borderline insane. Is this really how we want our future decisions to be made?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    Things are going to worsen for you, me and everyone else.

    Of course it is. With babyboomers about to all get old and sick at once, any system we have would be facing serious issues.

    If you think the status quo would have left you well off, think again and look at the trends before Obama was even running for president. All projections warned of huge healthcare cost increases.

    Again, I am not an Obamacare supporter, but I see it as slightly better than the way it was and would have been had Republicans had their way.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You are absolutely correct that in all House races Democratics received 1.4MM votes more than Republicans but to say that gerrymandering is the reason Rebublicans hold the Majority is MSNBC like craziness.....the reason for the 1.4MM difference and more,  is that the Democrats got 2.86MM votes more than Republicans in California alone, where Democrast won 38 of 53 seats and 1.9MM more Votes In NY, where Democrats won 21 of 27 seats....both very Democratic States. now run by Democratic Governors...take that out of the equation and 3.5MM more Americans voted for the Majority Party....so unless you are claiming the 21 Republican seats in California/NY were all due to Gerry Mandering, which still wouldnt cover the 33 Seat Majority...the Republicans having a Majoriity in the House is a good representation of the America.

    So, you agree a voter in montana should have 18 times the congressional power than one from California. Sounds real democratic to me.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    A couple of weeks ago, Brian Williams was on Letterman; he showed what the Congressional district maps looked like in NC and Wisc; instead of neat geographical partitions, which is what I recall decades ago, they looked like a spaghetti bowl. We can thank those new political algorithms and the Supreme Court for that.

    [/QUOTE]

    There's hardly any contested districts anymore, so both sides are beholden to only their often extreme constituencies. Their primary is their only real contest. I seriouslyu doubt this is what the framers of the Constitution had in mind when trying to protect the minority from tyranny.

    Take Pennsylvania for example, the Democrats received 1.5% more votes, yet won only 5 out of 18 seats. I'm sure there were states that went the other way, but this is extreme, don't you think?

    The Democrats actually lost a seat. It used to be 13 to 6, now it's 13 to 5. The party winning 48.8% of the vote won 72.2% of the seats. Yes, we are a Republic, but that is not right. I'm sure you'd say the same had the Dems stacked the deck against the Republicans to that extent.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Things are going to worsen for you, me and everyone else.

    Of course it is. With babyboomers about to all get old and sick at once, any system we have would be facing serious issues.



    If you think the status quo would have left you well off, think again and look at the trends before Obama was even running for president. All projections warned of huge healthcare cost increases.

    Again, I am not an Obamacare supporter, but I see it as slightly better than the way it was and would have been had Republicans had their way.

    [/QUOTE]

    There were other ways to make changes, crossing state lines to encourage companies to compete was one of them.  I hope I am wrong but I believe we will be worse off because of obamacare.

    Obamacare allows obama to have the big government he wanted.  He will be appointing czars to control our health care.  People we can't vote out of office.  The IRS will have more control over us.  We all know how they operate.

    You have ignored my stats, in their place you state your opinion.  That's fine, you have a right to your opinion but I believe my stats have merit.  

    I believe obamacare gives far too much power to the federal government. I think we will be much worse off because of him and his big government policies.  I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

    Thanks for the civil discussion, it was fun!

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: If you were starving and needed a dollar to buy a loaf of bread...

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You are absolutely correct that in all House races Democratics received 1.4MM votes more than Republicans but to say that gerrymandering is the reason Rebublicans hold the Majority is MSNBC like craziness.....the reason for the 1.4MM difference and more,  is that the Democrats got 2.86MM votes more than Republicans in California alone, where Democrast won 38 of 53 seats and 1.9MM more Votes In NY, where Democrats won 21 of 27 seats....both very Democratic States. now run by Democratic Governors...take that out of the equation and 3.5MM more Americans voted for the Majority Party....so unless you are claiming the 21 Republican seats in California/NY were all due to Gerry Mandering, which still wouldnt cover the 33 Seat Majority...the Republicans having a Majoriity in the House is a good representation of the America.

    So, you agree a voter in montana should have 18 times the congressional power than one from California. Sounds real democratic to me.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    A couple of weeks ago, Brian Williams was on Letterman; he showed what the Congressional district maps looked like in NC and Wisc; instead of neat geographical partitions, which is what I recall decades ago, they looked like a spaghetti bowl. We can thank those new political algorithms and the Supreme Court for that.

    [/QUOTE]


    Conveniently, Wiiliams didn't bring up the Illinois districts drawn by Democrats.  The one I'm in snakes along the Mississippi river about 150 miles almost to St. Louis, then cuts across to around Springfield.  It was even worse in the decade of 2000-2010, where in some places it was stayed connected via alleys. 

     

    Iowa has the best system I've seen.  Every one of their districts runs along county lines; I beleive that's by state law and has been that way for quite a while.  Counties can and do move between districts as the population changes, but they keep the lines clean.  It's a system that really should be followed everywhere as best they can.  Doesn't work as well in big cities, but even there they can try to make them as square or rectangular as possible.

     
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