If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    I just read that Papi said "we are all playing hurt", etc. If that is the case, just put someone else in there. 

    Is Youkilis really helping the team? Someone please post his stats over the last month.

    I'm tired of hurt ballplayers going out there and sucking it up, and then sucking it up.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSNS14. Show RSNS14's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    A hurt Youk is still better than a healthy Lowrie. An Adrian Gonzalas with no legs is better than Lars Anderson. It's not like we have a deep bench we can stick another all-star player in those positions. This is our team. And tonight, with Beckett at the helm, the tide changes.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from thee---crawful. Show thee---crawful's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    In Response to Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...:
    A hurt Youk is still better than a healthy Lowrie. An Adrian Gonzalas with no legs is better than Lars Anderson. It's not like we have a deep bench we can stick another all-star player in those positions. This is our team. And tonight, with Beckett at the helm, the tide changes.
    Posted by RSNS14



    unfortunately, the SOX are facing shields, the 2nd best pitcher in the AL.
    6 innings from BECKETT, then the worst bullpen in baseball will implode again.
    TAMPA will be 2 games out after tonight.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    I wouldnt mix Gonzo in with Youk, because I think he is fine, but I would definitely say we should sit Youk. He is clearly a) in pain, and b) lost at the plate becuae of it. I have never seen him more off balance swinging....he looks like he has no pitch recognition at all.....and every grounder to third he looks like he is going to topple over. With lowery being hurt also and Beckett and Lester the next two games....I don't think it would hurt to have some defense out there....put Iglesias in at SS, play Scutaro at 3B. You bat Iglesias 9th and hopefully you can use his limited offensive skills to bunt people over and take some hacks if no one is on base.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    If Ortiz said we are all playing hurt that is really troubling. Is he preparing us for something? The current roster is a far cry from 2007 not to mention 2004.  This team doesn't seem very tough.  It is not bending it is collapsing and if it rights the ship I will be very surprised and thrilled to be wrong.  
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    Youk needs to simply be shut down. His Tough Guy routine is hurting the team. It's like when he threw Ells under the bus last year when Ells did exactly what he needed to do to return healthy, now Youk is showing us all what the Tough Guy who plays when really hurt at a critical juncture of the season does to a team. He is heading straight to the Mike Lowell problem with the hip. And yes, Papi is telling all of those out there who still feel like this team is going to win the World Series to head for the Bridge, get up on the railing and just do it...jump. It is over people. We don't have the pitching, the hitting, the fielding....uhm, what else....This season has been far worse for me than the Bucky Dent debacle.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from fourrings. Show fourrings's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    agreed, youkilis needs to sit, play aviles.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    In Response to Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...:
    Youk needs to simply be shut down. His Tough Guy routine is hurting the team. It's like when he threw Ells under the bus last year when Ells did exactly what he needed to do to return healthy, now Youk is showing us all what the Tough Guy who plays when really hurt at a critical juncture of the season does to a team. He is heading straight to the Mike Lowell problem with the hip. And yes, Papi is telling all of those out there who still feel like this team is going to win the World Series to head for the Bridge, get up on the railing and just do it...jump. It is over people. We don't have the pitching, the hitting, the fielding....uhm, what else....This season has been far worse for me than the Bucky Dent debacle.
    Posted by sindarin-erebor

    I wouldnt jump off the bridge yet.....one win against Tampa by Beckett or Lester and a 2 game lead with 9 to go is still strong especially when you play the orioles 6 times and they play the Yankees 6 times. Two wins and I think all the wind is out of their sails. That said, I agree this is worse than 78, because this team should have been a playoff lock...the 78 team did not have the talent edge over the other teams that this team did over the AL this year....the 78 team played up to or over its potential, this team has played way under....at least lately.....The 78 team was 12-2 its last 14 games....I guess we will see if this team can stop the Sept slide also. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    Haha.  Dammed if they do, dammed if they don't.  Tito rests his guys when they are hurt, and the cry goes up "WHY DOES HE INSIST ON PAMPERING THESE GUYS?  EVERY GAME COUNTS AND THESE GUYS NEED TO TOUGHEN UP FOR THE MONEY THEY ARE MAKING", and, now, as he puts his best guys in there, with the season indeed on the line, and now the cry goes up "WHY IS HE PLAYING GUYS IF THEY ARE HURT?!?"
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    In Response to Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...:
    In Response to Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else... : I wouldnt jump off the bridge yet.....one win against Tampa by Beckett or Lester and a 2 game lead with 9 to go is still strong especially when you play the orioles 6 times and they play the Yankees 6 times. Two wins and I think all the wind is out of their sails. That said, I agree this is worse than 78, because this team should have been a playoff lock...the 78 team did not have the talent edge over the other teams that this team did over the AL this year....the 78 team played up to or over its potential, this team has played way under....at least lately.....The 78 team was 12-2 its last 14 games....I guess we will see if this team can stop the Sept slide also. 
    Posted by tomnev

    Exactly my point about the 78 team vs. the 11 version. I assumed we would easily make the playoffs.Surprised
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    Agree with you all.  Youk need to sit out for a while.  Joe Maddon is going to walk Papi every time if there is an open base at 1B and he rather to have a pitcher to face Youk.  Maddon know youk will hit into an easy double play if the ball is on the ground.  


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    In Response to Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...:
    A hurt Youk is still better than a healthy Lowrie. An Adrian Gonzalas with no legs is better than Lars Anderson. It's not like we have a deep bench we can stick another all-star player in those positions. This is our team. And tonight, with Beckett at the helm, the tide changes.
    Posted by RSNS14


    Aviles would be a better option. Youk is hitting sub .200 since August 1, with 2 HR and 6 RBIs.

    Lowrie's hurt also and shouldn't play anymore (Both this year and moving forward) for the Sox.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    In Response to Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...:
    Youk needs to simply be shut down. His Tough Guy routine is hurting the team. It's like when he threw Ells under the bus last year when Ells did exactly what he needed to do to return healthy, now Youk is showing us all what the Tough Guy who plays when really hurt at a critical juncture of the season does to a team. He is heading straight to the Mike Lowell problem with the hip. And yes, Papi is telling all of those out there who still feel like this team is going to win the World Series to head for the Bridge, get up on the railing and just do it...jump. It is over people. We don't have the pitching, the hitting, the fielding....uhm, what else....This season has been far worse for me than the Bucky Dent debacle.
    Posted by sindarin-erebor


    Exactly. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    If they are hurt, they shouldn't play.  If they don't play hurt, then they aren't tough enough or dedicated enough.  If they play hurt and their production suffers, then they don't have heart.

    If they are hurt and Tito gives them a day off, then he's too soft on the players.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    In Response to Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...:
    In Response to Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else... : I wouldnt jump off the bridge yet.....one win against Tampa by Beckett or Lester and a 2 game lead with 9 to go is still strong especially when you play the orioles 6 times and they play the Yankees 6 times. Two wins and I think all the wind is out of their sails. That said, I agree this is worse than 78, because this team should have been a playoff lock...the 78 team did not have the talent edge over the other teams that this team did over the AL this year....the 78 team played up to or over its potential, this team has played way under....at least lately.....The 78 team was 12-2 its last 14 games....I guess we will see if this team can stop the Sept slide also. 
    Posted by tomnev

    You are forgetting about the Angels. They are 4 GB and have a relatively easy schedule with Haren, Weaver and Santana in their rotation.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    In Response to Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...:
    Haha.  Dammed if they do, dammed if they don't.  Tito rests his guys when they are hurt, and the cry goes up "WHY DOES HE INSIST ON PAMPERING THESE GUYS?  EVERY GAME COUNTS AND THESE GUYS NEED TO TOUGHEN UP FOR THE MONEY THEY ARE MAKING", and, now, as he puts his best guys in there, with the season indeed on the line, and now the cry goes up "WHY IS HE PLAYING GUYS IF THEY ARE HURT?!?"
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    Not if their numbers are as bad as Youk's are. Average sub .200 with 2 HR and 6 RBI's since 8/1 isn't helping the team.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    In Response to Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...:
    In Response to Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else... : You are forgetting about the Angels. They are 4 GB and have a relatively easy schedule with Haren, Weaver and Santana in their rotation.
    Posted by ADG


    Those 4 games in Toronto will not be easy for the Angels and then they finish at home 3 vs Texas....since the Sox last 12 are 3 TB, 6 vs BALT and 3 vs NYY, even if we go 5-7, they would need to go 10-2 to beat us outright....TB is our issue, since they plays us head to head.....and can actually now control their own destiny.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucbom. Show lucbom's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    In Response to Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...:
    I wouldnt mix Gonzo in with Youk, because I think he is fine, but I would definitely say we should sit Youk. He is clearly a) in pain, and b) lost at the plate becuae of it. I have never seen him more off balance swinging....he looks like he has no pitch recognition at all.....and every grounder to third he looks like he is going to topple over. With lowery being hurt also and Beckett and Lester the next two games....I don't think it would hurt to have some defense out there....put Iglesias in at SS, play Scutaro at 3B. You bat Iglesias 9th and hopefully you can use his limited offensive skills to bunt people over and take some hacks if no one is on base.
    Posted by tomnev


    Agree with your thoughts on Youk.  Youk this year is not the Youk of the past.  There must be something seriously wrong physically over and above what has been reported.  For one, I believe something is wrong with his vision.  I don't ever recall Youk swinging at pitches out of the strike zone as much as he has been doing this year, and on the little tap down the 3rd base line early in the game, it look like Youk was hurting even though he made the play and threw the runner out.  If Francona wants to continue to play Youk and Crawford, I think he should seriously consider having them bat in the 8th and 9 slot as just about anyone else would have a better chance of contributing offensively higher up in the lineup.  Forget the the "L-R-L" stuff that Francona absolutely loves, and go with something like this:

    ELS - CF...obvious spot.
    SCUTORO - SS...Scut can hit and will work the count.                             GONZO - 1B....obvious spot.
    PEDDY -  2B....a streaky free swinger with power who does not work the count.
    ORTIZ - DH....good spot for Papi...power hitter, good BA, Peddy should get some   better pitches with Papi batting in this spot.
    SALTY - C....decent BA w/some power...good defense with an arm.
    REDDICK- RF...good, streaky hitter, but your sitting on the edge of your seat when the ball is hit to right.
    YOUK - 3B.....even though Youk is obviously hurting, still the best option @ 3B
    CRAW - LF.....Very streaky, no bat discipline at the plate, still learning how to play LF at the Fen, and will eventually learn to hit the cut off guy even with a short LF.  Who else and where else for Craw!

    Last but not least, Theo should take over for Francona and manage "his" team rather than let Francona trying to figure out the mess the Sox unfortunately find themselves in at this time.  Win or lose, GO SOX DESPITE THEO AND FRANCONA!  Wink 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    In Response to Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...:
    In Response to Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else... : Not if their numbers are as bad as Youk's are. Average sub .200 with 2 HR and 6 RBI's since 8/1 isn't helping the team.
    Posted by ADG


    ADG, I hear this, and have been very uncertain whether he should be in there myself.  I am just pointing out that, many times, the lines are not so clear between THEY SHOULD PLAY HURT and PLAYING HURT IS HURTING THE CLUB.  People often make it sound like they know the line, but, really, none of us on the outside do.  

    No doubt.  But, with Youk, it is very very difficult.  Wasn't much talk in this regard, but, there is a reason why the offense started sputtering more often in his absence.  Youk in the clean-up, whether he was having an off year or not, totally alters how a pitcher tries to get through this line-up.  Since Tito was unwilling (til last night) to go L-L and put ortiz in the clean-up, I think that Adrian's power outage of the mid to late summer was a little about Adrian, but more about the fact that he stopped seeing good pitches.  His average stayed high because, as a great hitter will do, he took what he was given and flaired borderline pitches around for singles.  I love Pedey and its freakin' awesome that he can step into the 4 in a pinch.  But sooner or later, thats gonna catch up with you.  Youk makes this line-up go.  SO, Francona has to give him every opportunity to play and see if he can be effective.  Now, at this juncture, it really looks as if the benefits don't outway the negatives.  But, they had to try.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    m
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

    In Response to Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...:
    In Response to Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else... : ADG, I hear this, and have been very uncertain whether he should be in there myself.  I am just pointing out that, many times, the lines are not so clear between THEY SHOULD PLAY HURT and PLAYING HURT IS HURTING THE CLUB.  People often make it sound like they know the line, but, really, none of us on the outside do.   No doubt.  But, with Youk, it is very very difficult.  Wasn't much talk in this regard, but, there is a reason why the offense started sputtering more often in his absence.  Youk in the clean-up, whether he was having an off year or not, totally alters how a pitcher tries to get through this line-up.  Since Tito was unwilling (til last night) to go L-L and put ortiz in the clean-up, I think that Adrian's power outage of the mid to late summer was a little about Adrian, but more about the fact that he stopped seeing good pitches.  His average stayed high because, as a great hitter will do, he took what he was given and flaired borderline pitches around for singles.  I love Pedey and its freakin' awesome that he can step into the 4 in a pinch.  But sooner or later, thats gonna catch up with you.  Youk makes this line-up go.  SO, Francona has to give him every opportunity to play and see if he can be effective.  Now, at this juncture, it really looks as if the benefits don't outway the negatives.  But, they had to try.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus

    Space,

    Thats a great analysis of what has happened recently with the lineup....and I think the question isnt whether Youk should be playing or not, it is that all the  detractors with as little information as the ball girls....should be whining when guys do or dont play hurt....Clearly Ells couldnt last year and clearly Youk thinks he can this year, but as you said the Managers needs to weigh th benefits vs the negatives.....I would rather sit him the next 2 days and play him against Price on Sunday when we will need his Righty bat in the lineup
     
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    Re: If Youk and Gonzo are playing hurt, just play someone else...

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