Iggy optioned

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    Re: Iggy optioned

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

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    2011 was a partial season. Id go with 08-10 to get an accurate story. Either way Moon, both myself and Jasko have heard from within the organization on Drew. Hes a better defender than your numbers suggest. I trust them more that the metrics guys.

    Hes a good defender with a good stick. Iggy will be back soon enough.

     



    He was not hurt before the ankle injury. He had over 350 PAs and was off to a .713 OPS start. Why ignore that? he was healthy. The fact is, he had a great 2008 season followed by 2 and a half healthy seasons of very good offense, but not really .800 ball. To expect .800 might be stretching it (not saying you expect 800).

     

     




    yes, I know, but whos to say he wouldnt have ended up with much better numbers. Or for that matter, worse. Its not a true season. 08-10 are.

    Like jasko, We agree to disagree.

     

     



    Those PAs count. His 1500+ PAs after 2008 were not that spectacular. There's nothing to agree or diagree about there. He was healthy for 2.5 years after 2008 and wasn't close to thos numbers over that very large sample size.

     

    Why should we expect Drew, if healthy, to hit like he did in 2008 rather than 2009- 2011 (the larger and more recent sample size)?

    Even if you count 2008, his OPS from 2008-2011 was .786. That's close enough to .800 to think .800 is not out of the question, but he's played 4 seasons (counting partial seasons) since 2008. I'd project something like .730 to .760 if he stays healthy this year. That should be 100 points higher than Iggy would be at. I just don't see .780-.820 this year from Stephen. I hope he does, but I don't expect it.

     




    Papi started slow before and ended up with a high OBP. taking a couple months and counting that is not the way to evaluate anyone. If I were to guess, I would say Drew is about a .780 OPS MLB SS.

     

    It doesnt matter though Moon, we obviously are not going to agree on this one. I respect your POV, but respectfully disagree.

     



    I didn't take a half year, I took 2.5 years. There a chance drew might have done worse that second half. The point is, they were 350+ PAs while healthy, and they shouldn't be thrown out because he didn't play the second half of 2011. 

     




    But thats not a whole year and like I said He could have easily done much better or worse. Its not fair to count a couple months. Like papi, he could have just got off to a slow start. But we will never know. Since its one of the lowest OPS of his career, one would think he would have got better if he had finished the year.

     2008 -2010, 3 full years of 2 150+ games and a 135 game year, averaging about 620 PA's per year over that 3 year span. THAT will give you a better idea of what Drew is offensively.

    Either way, Iggy has been send down like he was told will happen when Drew returned. He needs to get that 7% line drive rate up more as well as learn to go with the pitch much better. He pulls everything. If hes not going to have much power, hes going to have to spray the ball around and hit it in the air more. Some more work on his offense and he will return a much better all around player. Anything can happen and he could return later in the year.

     

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Iggy optioned

    In response to emp9's comment:

    Drew better be ready to play. I still think this move, however unavoidable, is 2 weeks too early. 



    I don't disagree--if he does not exhibit proficiencywithin two weeks perhaps there will be a phantom DL stint and extended ST.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Iggy optioned

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

    In response to emp9's comment:

     

    Drew better be ready to play. I still think this move, however unavoidable, is 2 weeks too early. 

     



    I don't disagree--if he does not exhibit proficiencywithin two weeks perhaps there will be a phantom DL stint and extended ST.

     




    Dont count on it.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Iggy optioned

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    I'd like to know who claims that S. Drew is an All-Star SS, right now?   Whoever that is must be Red Sox managment, the bean counters of incompetence.



    It wouldn't surprise me to see Stephen Drew as an All-Star.  Last year's short-stops were Derek Jeter, Asdrubal Cabrera & Elvis Andrus.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Iggy optioned

         First they said that Iglesias hit only .118. Now that he is hitting .400 & , we get new stats to use. "  Line drive rate."  And , the ever popular " BABIP."  Feel free to choose whatever stat supports your view. It is not every day gold glove caliber shortstops , batting over .400 , are sent to the minors. This Drew guy must really be something special. 

     
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    Re: Iggy optioned

    In response to proftom2's comment:

     

    Really enjoy his play, very Luis Aparico




    On defense, yes. Overall, no. Why do people almost always compare him to Hall of Fame SS's from the past or near Hall of Famers? Why do they compare him to average, good, and very good offensive players like Mark Bellanger, Luis Aparicio, and Ozzie Smith? When the much more accurate comparisons are to more recent players like Rey Ordonez, Rey Sanchez, Brandon Ryan, or Adam Everrett?

     
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    Re: Iggy optioned

    In response to BOSOX1941's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

      A sad day for the 2013 Red Sox......  It will be interesting where the next 30 days takes us.........   As I have said before, the REd Sox pitchers got off to a great start (ERA) because there was a SS there that made the other team play with only 3 outs per inning..... The entire DEFENSE was pitcher friendly !!!!

     


    Can somebody illustrate those defensive plays that Iggy has made so far that have changed the outcome of a game?

     




    They can't even name the plays that made extra outs.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Iggy optioned

    This is such a dumb move that it doesnt even need to be explained.  I'm going to pull a Pike here and actually make the statement that people who argue for this move don't even believe in it themselves...they are just being loyal.  

    This will end like the Bard experiment - quickly and badly.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Iggy optioned

    In response to georom4's comment:

    This is such a dumb move that it doesnt even need to be explained.  I'm going to pull a Pike here and actually make he statement that people who argue for this move don't even believe in it themselves...they are just being loyal.  

    This will end like the Bard experiment - quickly and badly.



    maybe we're just smarter than you? understand baseball better than you? or we just don't chronically whine as much as you? take your pick.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Iggy optioned

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    People don't understand, Red Sox managment had no choice. It was the right thing to do. Iggy's not ready, and he'll get a chance to get better. S. Drew is proven and ready.




    I am glad to see that you have had a change of heart. I agree with you now, 100%. You are truly a premium poster.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Iggy optioned

    In response to georom4's comment:

    This is such a dumb move that it doesnt even need to be explained.  I'm going to pull a Pike here and actually make the statement that people who argue for this move don't even believe in it themselves...they are just being loyal.  

    This will end like the Bard experiment - quickly and badly.




    Hogwash. Some of us actually believe the FO got this one right, uncharacteristically. I don't think much of our FO over the last few years. but I think this was the right move. Its arrogant of you to think that only your opinion is correct, unless you can PROVE you are right.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Iggy optioned

    In response to georom4's comment:

    This is such a dumb move that it doesnt even need to be explained.  I'm going to pull a Pike here and actually make he statement that people who argue for this move don't even believe in it themselves...they are just being loyal.  

    This will end like the Bard experiment - quickly and badly.



    Its not that you are wrong Geo.  Its just the overstatement that makes you sound foolish.  I don't believe in the move myself.  I have expressed that I think you have to respect mojo and therefore Iggy should stay.  However, the notion that Sox will go down in flames because of this move, that it will be akin to the Bard experiment, is silly.  Drew will be serviceable at worst.  We lose out on Iggy's glove, but Drew is no butcher out there.  He is a sound shortstop.  Doesn't have the range or the ability to make the dazzling play like Jose, but to suggest it is akin to Bard -as-starter is just based on ... well, i actually have no idea other than you feeling like you are on a good slam-Ben roll.  

    I wanted Inglesias to stay with the big club.  I love a slick shortstop and Crash Davis told me to always respect a streak.  

    But, I took an oh-well breath and realized it ain't really so bad.  In fact, Drew is probably going to contribute nicely.  

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Iggy optioned

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    This is such a dumb move that it doesnt even need to be explained.  I'm going to pull a Pike here and actually make the statement that people who argue for this move don't even believe in it themselves...they are just being loyal.  

    This will end like the Bard experiment - quickly and badly.

     




    Hogwash. Some of us actually believe the FO got this one right, uncharacteristically. I don't think much of our FO over the last few years. but I think this was the right move. Its arrogant of you to think that only your opinion is correct, unless you can PROVE you are right.

     

     




    He cant...If you agree with a move the FO makes your a pollyanna or a loyalist.

     

    Ive agreed with a lot of moves this offseason. I certainly havent in the past years, which is well documented in my history of posts. Personally, I like the fact that we have a GM that has been through scouting and development and with the team for 14 yrs and a Manager who has won an award when he was head of scouting and development while with the Indians. I think that proves they actually have a good idea what they are doing. This obviously doesnt seem like a popular opinion on this board, but it is what it is.

    Whether I agree or not with a decision, I try to understand it from their POV, not mine. I would have liked to see Iggy stay, but Im good with Drew as our SS.

     

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Iggy optioned

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Whether I agree or not with a decision, I try to understand it from their POV, not mine.

    I respect your courage. It has to be so hard to try and understand a management team who doesn't things you don't agree with. And when you are out of the loop, like you are, your objective comments on this board are so critical to distilling fact from fiction.

    Folks, this poster is one of the most indpendent thinkers in baseball. He tells it like he sees it, and is not some lap dog managemey homey shilling under cover. He doesn't just post on here to keep access to Red Sox management, he's not scared to call them out and have them close the access door. You have to respect his opinion, because it's well thought out and indepndent.

     




    Thanks ;)

    I hope you noted that on your BU drive :)

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Iggy optioned

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to BOSOX1941's comment:

     

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

      A sad day for the 2013 Red Sox......  It will be interesting where the next 30 days takes us.........   As I have said before, the REd Sox pitchers got off to a great start (ERA) because there was a SS there that made the other team play with only 3 outs per inning..... The entire DEFENSE was pitcher friendly !!!!

     


    Can somebody illustrate those defensive plays that Iggy has made so far that have changed the outcome of a game?

     

     



    He's made 2-5 more plays than Drew would have made. It's near impossible to gauge runs saved. The innings got shorter, the starter went longer, the whole dynamics of the games were changed.

     



    Lol, is it 2 or is it 5? When and where. If it's 5 then you're saying that he'll make almost 115 plays that Drew wouldn't make over the year.. very doubtful, lol. You're saying that one out of every 5 chances would be balls the Drew wouldn't get to. Nonsense.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Iggy optioned

    In response to BMav's comment:

    In response to BOSOX1941's comment:

     

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

      A sad day for the 2013 Red Sox......  It will be interesting where the next 30 days takes us.........   As I have said before, the REd Sox pitchers got off to a great start (ERA) because there was a SS there that made the other team play with only 3 outs per inning..... The entire DEFENSE was pitcher friendly !!!!

     


    Can somebody illustrate those defensive plays that Iggy has made so far that have changed the outcome of a game?

     

     




    They can't even name the plays that made extra outs.

     

      SON, if I have to "SPLAIN" my post to you, the you really don't understand BASEBALL.......  It starts at SS and then spreads to the OF and is contagous....... 7 games, no errors, and an efficient inning after inning for the pitchers.......   Most teams play better when "they are not giving away outs"  !!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Iggy optioned

    I said in another post, and I think it bears repeating--IF they didn't pick up Drew for one year, at an admittedly premium price, the fans would have been all over management for not spending the money on a quality player and arguably the best SS available on the market. Posters would have been all over BenC for not securing someone to give Iggy and Bogaerts another year to hone their skills.

    Really the same thing is true with Bradley-fortunately he has had the last two weeks to see what MLB is all about and what he has to work on. Victorino and Gomes, a couple of quality guys were brought in; ShaVic just in case they had an offer for Ells they couldn't pass up and Gomes because the price was right and they needed a RH stick.

    Ue and Hanny fit into the pen with Bailey, Taz, Miller, Mort and Aceves. Breslow and Morales will hopefully be ready soon. 

    Iggy will get needed time to try to work on hit and runs, hitting behind runners and sacrificing.

    JBJ will learn how to hit the high and tight fastballs in addition to the balls on the outside black.

    Hopefully Ortiz will be added protection for Nap and WMB.

     
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