1. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    You may be correct in saying that Iglesias doesn't have much difference between his actual batting average and his BABIP (career difference so far .048, .328 BABIP to .280 avg).  The reason is he does not hit HRs and he does not strike out too much.  I am not sure what you mean by it doesn't some things into consideration.  It is meant for one thing, Batting Average on Balls In Play.  All stats don't take some things into consideration.  The theory behind it is that most players and pitchers will have a BABIP around .300.  There are exceptions.  But for the most part players will be around .300.  I do think it is a better stat for pitchers than hitters because they have less control over where the ball goes after it is hit.  The batter at least can try to "hit it where they ain't"

    If a manager doesn't have confidence in his ball players, even when they're going badly, they're not going to have confidence in themselves. And when a ballplayer's confidence is gone, you haven't got a ballplayer - Birdie Tebbetts

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

                                               Detroit fans gave him a standing O after his two out hit plated the first run of the game. He played 3B not SS tonight. They sat Cabrera.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Many posters here have mentioned Iggy's "luck" or his "coming down to earth" or his "not being ablke to sustain his high BAbip", etc...

    Iggy did have some luck this year, but his defense was pure nirvana to me. Any offense he gave us was always going to be just icing on the cake.

    What gets me most of all, is how so many posters say thing like "Iggy will never be more than a .625 OPS guy".

    Sox4ever

     



    When was the last time someone said that?

     

     



    i agree. most people are sticklers about his offense but virtually everyone acknowledges that he could develop into a decent-solid hitter.

    At the very least, Iggy will end up being a very good bench player. Speed and versatility will allow him to pinch run, be a UIF or late inning defensive replacement. If his offense develops the way some posters think it will then he could be one of the better SSs in the league. that's a pretty large chasm between ceiling and floor. Iggy could end up anywhere in between. IMO, BC sold very high on Iggy. Even his biggest supporters didn't think he would hit this well. period.
    He turned a 2 month hot streak into Jake Peavy. So far it seems like a good deal. obviously the long term viability of the trade has yet to be seen but we traded extremely high on a position of organizational depth (many here forget -or simply ignore- that our #1 prospect and arguably the best prospect in all of baseball is also a SS) to fill a holes in our roster with a good pitcher with a proven track record and 2 BP arms (workman indirectly and a fireballing MRP who's name escapes me Yell).

    If XB sticks at SS in the MLB (2014 onwards) then Iggy would have been traded or relegated to UIF duty anyway so why not trade him now when his value is at it's highest? (yes i think this is the highest his value will likely ever be. 250 ABs is a significant sample size).

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    They didn't "sit" Cabrera.  That makes it sound like they would rather have Iglesias in the lineup than Cabrera.  Iglesias was going to play 2B buy Carbera experienced soreness while running before the game and was scratched.

    If a manager doesn't have confidence in his ball players, even when they're going badly, they're not going to have confidence in themselves. And when a ballplayer's confidence is gone, you haven't got a ballplayer - Birdie Tebbetts

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    I think it is pretty much a unanimous opinion that Iglesias is a better defender than Bogaerts, while Bogaerts is the better hitter. The obvious move would be for Iglesias to play short and for Bogaerts to play third. That has been stated many times here.  Now , that will not happen. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    I think it is pretty much a unanimous opinion that Iglesias is a better defender than Bogaerts, while Bogaerts is the better hitter. The obvious move would be for Iglesias to play short and for Bogaerts to play third. That has been stated many times here.  Now , that will not happen. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    We have two prospects who are 3B, one of which will most likely be our future 3B-Middlebrooks and Cecchini. We do not need another 3B prospect. We needed pitching, and had to give someone of value up to obtain it. Iglesias was traded when his value was high and we got an experienced decent SP back in return-and that allows Workman to bolster the pen. Iggy had a WAR during his stay here of 1.8. If you believe in WAR, thats the level of a reserve player which, IMO, is what Iggy will turn out to be. I wish him the best of luck but this was a decent and reasonable trade for us.

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    I don't think the Sox have given up on Middlebrooks yet.  And they have two other infielders (Cecchini and Marrero) who they have high hope for as well.  They dealt from a strenghth to better their team this year (and next).

    If a manager doesn't have confidence in his ball players, even when they're going badly, they're not going to have confidence in themselves. And when a ballplayer's confidence is gone, you haven't got a ballplayer - Birdie Tebbetts

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    Why not just re-sign Drew?  The guy has been awesome with the bat lately and only has 3 errors.  Pretty damn good shortstop as far as I can see.

    (Waits for the negative spin against Drew.)

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    Why not just re-sign Drew?  The guy has been awesome with the bat lately and only has 3 errors.  Pretty damn good shortstop as far as I can see.

    (Waits for the negative spin against Drew.)




    It will be better to bring up Bogaerts at rookie salary and use the money elsewhere than to sign Drew again. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to fizsh's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    Why not just re-sign Drew?  The guy has been awesome with the bat lately and only has 3 errors.  Pretty damn good shortstop as far as I can see.

    (Waits for the negative spin against Drew.)

     




    It will be better to bring up Bogaerts at rookie salary and use the money elsewhere than to sign Drew again. 



    That depends on who's playing third base.

     

     

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to fizsh's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

     

    Why not just re-sign Drew?  The guy has been awesome with the bat lately and only has 3 errors.  Pretty damn good shortstop as far as I can see.

    (Waits for the negative spin against Drew.)

     

     




    It will be better to bring up Bogaerts at rookie salary and use the money elsewhere than to sign Drew again. 

     

     



    That depends on who's playing third base.

     

     

     



    As I said earlier, I do not think the Sox have given up on Middlebrooks

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to fizsh's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

     

    Why not just re-sign Drew?  The guy has been awesome with the bat lately and only has 3 errors.  Pretty damn good shortstop as far as I can see.

    (Waits for the negative spin against Drew.)

     

     




    It will be better to bring up Bogaerts at rookie salary and use the money elsewhere than to sign Drew again. 

     

     



    That depends on who's playing third base.

     

     

     



    Wilson Betemit *
    Eric Chavez
    Mark DeRosa
    Mike Fontenot
    Jerry Hairston Jr.
    Brandon Inge
    Placido Polanco
    Mark Reynolds
    Juan Uribe
    Kevin Youkilis
    Michael Young

    these are the FA 3Bman on the market this offseason. Obviously, slim pickings. If i were to bet i'd say that we either trade for one or even more likely fill from within (i'm looking at you Middy)

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    Why not just re-sign Drew?  The guy has been awesome with the bat lately and only has 3 errors.  Pretty damn good shortstop as far as I can see.

    (Waits for the negative spin against Drew.)



    Are your glasses on?



    That's pretty feeble, Burrito.  

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to fizsh's comment:

    That depends on who's playing third base.



    As I said earlier, I do not think the Sox have given up on Middlebrooks

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm sure they haven't yet.  But we're not exactly all set at third.  So much depends on what position they have in mind for Bogaerts.

     

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    I have said many times that I like Iggy. GG defense, but I dont think his bat will make a big enough difference to be better than a left side of Bogey at SS and Cecchini at 3b. I said Iggy could be about a 250 hitter, which is fine. But thats on the high side. These are my opinions.

    My Personal preference is a more all around SS like we have in Bogey. Contrary to some opinions here, that doesnt make me right or wrong. Its just my personal preference and my opinions.

    What I get a kick out of is people saying that we didnt stick to the plan and this will effect us for years. Ive heard Ben lied and gave up the future for the here and now and is in way over his head. Someone even compared this to what Toronto did last winter. Really? Some of those who liked Iggy and are his loudest supporters are far beyond over the top about things and being a bit dramatic. Also my opinion.

     Also contrary to some folks opinions, they still have one of the best farm systems in MLB and look to be a legit team to go deep into the playoffs. With all that said, I look forward to the Sox very bright future.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    We have two prospects who are 3B, one of which will most likely be our future 3B-Middlebrooks and Cecchini. We do not need another 3B prospect.

    Middlebrooks may nver make it back to a FT role.

    Cecchini may never make it.

    We need a 1Bman after 2013.

    We need a DH after 2014.

    Middlebrooks, Cecchini and Bogaerts, if they make it to the bigs and do well,  can be moved the 1B.

     

     

    We needed pitching, and had to give someone of value up to obtain it. Iglesias was traded when his value was high and we got an experienced decent SP back in return-and that allows Workman to bolster the pen.

    We do not know if Iggy's value was "high" or not. It may have been higher before last year, it may be higher in years to come, but it was certainly higher than it was after 2012.

    Iggy had a WAR during his stay here of 1.8. If you believe in WAR, thats the level of a reserve player which, IMO, is what Iggy will turn out to be. I wish him the best of luck but this was a decent and reasonable trade for us.

    Iggy played about half a season. If you double 1.8 to give him a full season, he'd have a WAR or 3.6. That would have made him the 7th best SS in MLB last year and 9th in 2011. Am I missing your point, or did you misread WAR in the context of the SS position and sample size?

    Sox4ever

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    Are we justifying trading Iglesias by saying the Sox have not given up on Middlebrooks ? I have not given up on him either. As for Cecchini, who knows? He may or may not become a major league player. If he does , he may or may not be above average. We traded away a young shortstop , who is an exceptional defender and improving greatly as a hitter.That is hard to replace. Please don't tell me again about the abundance of shortstop prospects that we have.What does that mean ? That every one of our minor league teams has a shortstop ? Every team has that , except the names are not familiar to us. Marrero has been just average in A Ball , while Vinicio has struggled to hit in A Ball. They are a long way from Fenway. This is not meant to kill Drew , who has done a pretty good job.  This is about breaking up our future lineup of Iglesias at short and Bogaerts at third. If Middlebrooks gets it together, and Cecchini succeeds, there are spots open at first base, the outfield and , eventually , D.H.  But shortstops like Iglesias are rare. We should not have traded him.  

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    I have said many times that I like Iggy. GG defense, but I dont think his bat will make a big enough difference to be better than a left side of Bogey at SS and Cecchini at 3b. I said Iggy could be about a 250 hitter, which is fine. But thats on the high side. These are my opinions.

    My opinion is that Cecchini may be at least a year away, and may hit .250 as well. I doubt it, but we just don't know. I really like Cecchini- always have.

     

    My Personal preference is a more all around SS like we have in Bogey. Contrary to some opinions here, that doesnt make me right or wrong. Its just my personal preference and my opinions.

    My opinion is that Boggy may be a better overall SS than Iggy, but I would not say he is a plus fielder or baserunner, so I'm missing the "all around" part of Boggy's skillset. He may end up being a good fielder at SS, and from what I hear, he's a decent baserunner, but I think Iggy is better in both those areas, but is likely way behind in hitting and power.

     

    What I get a kick out of is people saying that we didnt stick to the plan and this will effect us for years. Ive heard Ben lied and gave up the future for the here and now and is in way over his head. Someone even compared this to what Toronto did last winter. Really? Some of those who liked Iggy and are his loudest supporters are far beyond over the top about things and being a bit dramatic. Also my opinion.

    I think this may be directed at me. While I do think the trade will effect our situation for years to come (at least the 4+ years of team control we had on IGGY), but I never meant to imply that our future is sunk or that Ben is doing an overall poor job. Just my opinions.

     Also contrary to some folks opinions, they still have one of the best farm systems in MLB and look to be a legit team to go deep into the playoffs. With all that said, I look forward to the Sox very bright future.




     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Are we justifying trading Iglesias by saying the Sox have not given up on Middlebrooks ? I have not given up on him either. As for Cecchini, who knows? He may or may not become a major league player. If he does , he may or may not be above average. We traded away a young shortstop , who is an exceptional defender and improving greatly as a hitter.That is hard to replace. Please don't tell me again about the abundance of shortstop prospects that we have.What does that mean ? That every one of our minor league teams has a shortstop ? Every team has that , except the names are not familiar to us. Marrero has been just average in A Ball , while Vinicio has struggled to hit in A Ball. They are a long way from Fenway. This is not meant to kill Drew , who has done a pretty good job.  This is about breaking up our future lineup of Iglesias at short and Bogaerts at third. If Middlebrooks gets it together, and Cecchini succeeds, there are spots open at first base, the outfield and , eventually , D.H.  But shortstops like Iglesias are rare. We should not have traded him.  

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    I like Peavy, but agree on Iggy.

    The fact is, I doubt Iggy would have started next year, even if we did not trade him. I do not think Ben values SS defense as much as some of us. I'm not trying to act smarter than Ben or put him down in anyway, but I hate to see the best fielding SS in MLB traded away with 4+ years of team control in our hands.

    Sorry if I am being overly dramatic, but I feel some of the reason our pitching has looked better is a result of our improved defense up the middle. Iggy's play at 3B was remarkable as well.

    Nice to see Holt make a good play at 3B tonight. Tough loss.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    Moon, I do not believe southpaw's penultimate comment was directed at you.  I know the post he is talking about and I am sure it wasn't yours.  You posts do not have the hyperbole that this post had.  I think I know the name of the poster, but am not sure and don't feel like trying to find it.  But like I said, I am sure it isn't you.

    If a manager doesn't have confidence in his ball players, even when they're going badly, they're not going to have confidence in themselves. And when a ballplayer's confidence is gone, you haven't got a ballplayer - Birdie Tebbetts

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    We have two prospects who are 3B, one of which will most likely be our future 3B-Middlebrooks and Cecchini. We do not need another 3B prospect.

    Middlebrooks may nver make it back to a FT role.

    Cecchini may never make it.

    We need a 1Bman after 2013.

    We need a DH after 2014.

    Middlebrooks, Cecchini and Bogaerts, if they make it to the bigs and do well,  can be moved the 1B.

     There is a good chance that either WMB or Cecchini will be our eventual 3B. I would bet on that before I would bet that Iggy would hit well enough to be our full time SS despite his defensive prowess. Yes, after 2014 we will need a new DH. I would propose that this position be rotated among players who need an occasional day off. There is no easy solution to replacing Papi's production-and it has nothing to do with this trade.

     

    We needed pitching, and had to give someone of value up to obtain it. Iglesias was traded when his value was high and we got an experienced decent SP back in return-and that allows Workman to bolster the pen.

    We do not know if Iggy's value was "high" or not. It may have been higher before last year, it may be higher in years to come, but it was certainly higher than it was after 2012.

    Nope. Its all guesswork. My guess is that we sold high on Iggy.

    Iggy had a WAR during his stay here of 1.8. If you believe in WAR, thats the level of a reserve player which, IMO, is what Iggy will turn out to be. I wish him the best of luck but this was a decent and reasonable trade for us.

    Iggy played about half a season. If you double 1.8 to give him a full season, he'd have a WAR or 3.6. That would have made him the 7th best SS in MLB last year and 9th in 2011. Am I missing your point, or did you misread WAR in the context of the SS position and sample size?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding WAR. I think it means that right now he has the value of a replacement player and that unless his performance improves he will remain at or below 1.8, his current level. He has, in fact, already started to return to earth. In the last month here he was at .205/.464. That simply is not good enough. He is probably better than that, but he will never be an offensive force IMO. I prefer a SS who can both play defense and who is not an automatic out.

    Sox4ever




     
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