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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Does the move benefit the team overall, in both the short and long terms?   When you consider all the factors, I believe it does.

    Short term: probably yes, if Peavy remains healthy for 1.3 years.

    Long term: certainly not, unless after 2014 we get a comp pick for Peaavy that is better than Iggy. How can a player signed just to the end of 2014 be a longterm benefit?

    Iggy was under team control for 4.3 years. Montas is a good prospect as well although at a low level right now.

    This trade did not benefit our team beyond 2014. If Iggy does not become a full time starter by 2015, then the trade may not have hurt longterm, but it certainly cannot "benefit" long term.

    Sox4ever

    First off, let me reword what I was trying to say, as I wasn't very clear in the way I worded that sentence.  I didn't mean that this trade necessarily benefits the team in both the short and long terms (although I think it does, potentially). 

    What I meant was, when you factor in everything, the pros and cons, for both the short and long terms, is the trade an overall plus or benefit to the team?   In other words, even if the move has no long term benefit, or even if the move hurts the long term outlook, is the short term gain enough to offset that?

    In terms of long term benefit, there is the potential of getting a draft pick when Peavy leaves.  That is by no means a given, but you can bet that Ben factored that in as a plus when considering this trade.    Also, the Sox acquired Brayan Villarreal.   Admittedly, I don't know a lot about him, but my understanding is that he can be a very good reliever.  He is under team control until 2018.

    Even if there is no long term gain, I don't see how this move hurts the team's long term outlook because of Middlebrooks, Bogaerts, Cecchini, etc. 

    Either way, all factors considered, it comes out as a good trade.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackbu. Show jackbu's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to Belinsky1962's comment:

     


    The pluses and minuses of the trade have been listed, scrutinized, massaged, and presented both in the media and on this forum all week long. Everyone here has expressed their opinion already.

    The OP could have just said, " Good for Iggy, he knocked in a run in his first game which Detroit happened to win 2-1 thanks to good pitching, defense, and timely hitting". No need to make any reference about Peavey since Peavey doesn't play nine positions and bat nine times per game.

     




    So Peavy should have an easier time making himself a success here.  Why not reference Peavy? He is part of the trade and these types of references go on all the time.  People still talk about the Nomar trade.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Does the move benefit the team overall, in both the short and long terms?   When you consider all the factors, I believe it does.

    Short term: probably yes, if Peavy remains healthy for 1.3 years.

    Long term: certainly not, unless after 2014 we get a comp pick for Peaavy that is better than Iggy. How can a player signed just to the end of 2014 be a longterm benefit?

    Iggy was under team control for 4.3 years. Montas is a good prospect as well although at a low level right now.

    This trade did not benefit our team beyond 2014. If Iggy does not become a full time starter by 2015, then the trade may not have hurt longterm, but it certainly cannot "benefit" long term.

    Sox4ever

     

     

    First off, let me reword what I was trying to say, as I wasn't very clear in the way I worded that sentence.  I didn't mean that this trade necessarily benefits the team in both the short and long terms (although I think it does, potentially). 

    What I meant was, when you factor in everything, the pros and cons, for both the short and long terms, is the trade an overall plus or benefit to the team?   In other words, even if the move has no long term benefit, or even if the move hurts the long term outlook, is the short term gain enough to offset that?

    In terms of long term benefit, there is the potential of getting a draft pick when Peavy leaves.  That is by no means a given, but you can bet that Ben factored that in as a plus when considering this trade.    Also, the Sox acquired Brayan Villarreal.   Admittedly, I don't know a lot about him, but my understanding is that he can be a very good reliever.  He is under team control until 2018.

    Even if there is no long term gain, I don't see how this move hurts the team's long term outlook because of Middlebrooks, Bogaerts, Cecchini, etc. 

    Either way, all factors considered, it comes out as a good trade.

     



    OK, that makes more sense. Plus, Villareal is under team control for 4+ years, so there is potential for longterm gain, even if we do not get a comp pick when Peavy bolts after 2014.

    I will say that having Bogaerts, Cecchini and Middlebrooks as our future left side IF, with maybe Marrero or someone else stepping up in the longer term does look nice, but there is a strong chance 1 or 2 of these guys just don't pan out. If just one never makes it as a significant part of this team, then we lose the chance that one could fill the longterm 1B opening. 

    Had Iggy been our FT SS for 4+ years, we'd have had 3 guys- Boggy, Middy & Cecchi to fill the 2 slots of 3B and 1B, instead of 3 to fill 3 slots. I like those odds better, so I do view this trade as a hit on our longterm outlook. Maybe not a major hit. Maybe if Villareal does well, or we get a comp pick for Peavy, it may not be a hit at all, but at this point, I see this as a plus for short term and a minus for longterm on paper.

    Only time will tell.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

     

    Does the move benefit the team overall, in both the short and long terms?   When you consider all the factors, I believe it does.

    Short term: probably yes, if Peavy remains healthy for 1.3 years.

    Long term: certainly not, unless after 2014 we get a comp pick for Peaavy that is better than Iggy. How can a player signed just to the end of 2014 be a longterm benefit?

    Iggy was under team control for 4.3 years. Montas is a good prospect as well although at a low level right now.

    This trade did not benefit our team beyond 2014. If Iggy does not become a full time starter by 2015, then the trade may not have hurt longterm, but it certainly cannot "benefit" long term.

    Sox4ever

     

     

     

     

    First off, let me reword what I was trying to say, as I wasn't very clear in the way I worded that sentence.  I didn't mean that this trade necessarily benefits the team in both the short and long terms (although I think it does, potentially). 

    What I meant was, when you factor in everything, the pros and cons, for both the short and long terms, is the trade an overall plus or benefit to the team?   In other words, even if the move has no long term benefit, or even if the move hurts the long term outlook, is the short term gain enough to offset that?

    In terms of long term benefit, there is the potential of getting a draft pick when Peavy leaves.  That is by no means a given, but you can bet that Ben factored that in as a plus when considering this trade.    Also, the Sox acquired Brayan Villarreal.   Admittedly, I don't know a lot about him, but my understanding is that he can be a very good reliever.  He is under team control until 2018.

    Even if there is no long term gain, I don't see how this move hurts the team's long term outlook because of Middlebrooks, Bogaerts, Cecchini, etc. 

    Either way, all factors considered, it comes out as a good trade.

     



    OK, that makes more sense. Plus, Villareal is under team control for 4+ years, so there is potential for longterm gain, even if we do not get a comp pick when Peavy bolts after 2014.

     

    I will say that having Bogaerts, Cecchini and Middlebrooks as our future left side IF, with maybe Marrero or someone else stepping up in the longer term does look nice, but there is a strong chance 1 or 2 of these guys just don't pan out. If just one never makes it as a significant part of this team, then we lose the chance that one could fill the longterm 1B opening. 

    Had Iggy been our FT SS for 4+ years, we'd have had 3 guys- Boggy, Middy & Cecchi to fill the 2 slots of 3B and 1B, instead of 3 to fill 3 slots. I like those odds better, so I do view this trade as a hit on our longterm outlook. Maybe not a major hit. Maybe if Villareal does well, or we get a comp pick for Peavy, it may not be a hit at all, but at this point, I see this as a plus for short term and a minus for longterm on paper.

    Only time will tell.

     



    I think our biggest concern moving forward isn't necessarily who plays 1B, 3B or SS.  We will probably lose Ells and I don't see Bradley making up for his loss for at least two more years.  If we lose Ells, let Salty walk and sign McCann it could keep the balance we presently have offensively until our other youngsters like Bogy, Bradley, Middy, Cecchini and company develop.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    I am not a big fan of Babip. There are a lot of things that it does not take into consideration.  But if you look at it, I don't think there is an extraordinary difference between his Babip and his B.A.  Watching him , you can see how quickly he gets out of the box and gets to first. He gets infield hits that others don't. He sprays the ball around.  Guys like Napoli and Salty actually have higher Babips than Iglesias, and much larger differentials in the Babip and B.A. The difference is the strikeouts. Iglesias puts the ball in play and has more speed. It seems to me that one can always find some stat, traditional or metric , if they are looking to prove a point. The bottom line is that Iglesias is batting .330 after 237 plate appearances this year.  That is quite a " lucky " streak.   As for defense, he is as good as it gets.    That is quite a young ballplayer that we gave up. 

    Stabbed by Foulke

     



    You're being swayed too much by the gaudiness of his BA.  Even if he could maintain an average like that, which he can't, he's a slap hitter with no power.  Iggy has one home run and has not had an extra-base hit in over 20 games.   

     



    Guys like Nap and Salty need to slowly be replaced with guys who don't strike out as much.  If you get the ball in play there is always a chance for a hit, or sacrafice fly to help your clubs cause.  Sure you could hit into a few more double plays but the overall improvement to our OBP/SO to BB ratio will be much more beneficial.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    I think our biggest concern moving forward isn't necessarily who plays 1B, 3B or SS.  We will probably lose Ells and I don't see Bradley making up for his loss for at least two more years.  If we lose Ells, let Salty walk and sign McCann it could keep the balance we presently have offensively until our other youngsters like Bogy, Bradley, Middy, Cecchini and company develop.

    3B and 1B may not be our top priorities, but we probably can't afford to replace Ellsbury and Salty and be as good or better than we are now, unless 1B, 3B and the closer positions do not become worse. That puts a lot of pressure on some prospects and guys like Carp. I'm not saying it can't or won't work out, but the more choices we have to fill these open slots- the better.

     

     

    Guys like Nap and Salty need to slowly be replaced with guys who don't strike out as much.  If you get the ball in play there is always a chance for a hit, or sacrafice fly to help your clubs cause.  Sure you could hit into a few more double plays but the overall improvement to our OBP/SO to BB ratio will be much more beneficial.

    I get the fact that putting the ball in play increases the chances of doing something useful, but there are plenty of hitters who strike out a lot, but still get on base more than some who K less.

    While Napoli's K rate is at his highest of hius career, his .344 OBP is pretty close to his career number of .355 and better than last year's .343 OBP. His .260 BA is slightly better than his career .259 BA. If Naps had 46 BBs instead of 43 this year, his 2013 numbers would be about equal to his career BA and OBP numbers. 

    I'd rather have Napoli and his 141 Ks in 418 PAs over Victorino's 37 Ks in 329 PAs due to Napoli's higher OBP (.344 to .328) and SLG (.461 to .409).

    I'd rather have the Salty of 2013 over the Salty of 2012, even though his K rate is 2% higher. Salty's higher K rate has not effected his OBP, in fact, his OBP has risen dramatically from 2012 to 2012 (.288 to .331). He has his highest OPs of his career (.775). Salty has the 8th best catcher OPS in MLB this year (catchers with 300+ PAs). He also has the 9th best catcher OBP despite his near 33% K rate.

    I'll take the higher K rate in exchange for the much better OBP.

    Sox4ever

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    Iggy with a broken bat bunt blooping seeing eye windblown lucky HR tonight with the Tigers.

    Peavy is doomed.

    Sox4ever

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Promise4you2. Show Promise4you2's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    The thing that bugs me???? All you geniousous were touting our minor league pitching and how strong we were. Yet we trade a future GG for a 32 year old pitcher? Why is that? You guys change your underwear more than I can talk! Dont give me the bull we are taking the shot at this year. Stop with your fantasy baseball! Look to the future! I hope I sincerely hope we win it all, but the odds are not good!

    I dont like facts, they cloud my irresponsible Judgement!

    I often go back to read what i wrote only to find out it's not what I said!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to Promise4you2's comment:

    The thing that bugs me???? All you geniousous were touting our minor league pitching and how strong we were. Yet we trade a future GG for a 32 year old pitcher? Why is that? You guys change your underwear more than I can talk! Dont give me the bull we are taking the shot at this year. Stop with your fantasy baseball! Look to the future! I hope I sincerely hope we win it all, but the odds are not good!

    I dont like facts, they cloud my irresponsible Judgement!

    I often go back to read what i wrote only to find out it's not what I said!




    We do have a lot of good prospects promise. Doesnt mean they are all ready for the show just yet.

    Peavy pitched on heck of a game tonight and appears hes going to get the W.

    I wish Iggy well, but like many on here as well as most people around baseball said, This was a good deal. the Sox dealt from a position of depth.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Promise4you2. Show Promise4you2's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Iggy with a broken bat bunt blooping seeing eye windblown lucky HR tonight with the Tigers.

    Peavy is doomed.

    Sox4ever



    My Tigers friends are sending messages saying thanks. Im going to have to move to ohio!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Promise4you2. Show Promise4you2's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Promise4you2's comment:

     

    The thing that bugs me???? All you geniousous were touting our minor league pitching and how strong we were. Yet we trade a future GG for a 32 year old pitcher? Why is that? You guys change your underwear more than I can talk! Dont give me the bull we are taking the shot at this year. Stop with your fantasy baseball! Look to the future! I hope I sincerely hope we win it all, but the odds are not good!

    I dont like facts, they cloud my irresponsible Judgement!

    I often go back to read what i wrote only to find out it's not what I said!

     




    We do have a lot of good prospects promise. Doesnt mean they are all ready for the show just yet.

     

    Peavy pitched on heck of a game tonight and appears hes going to get the W.

    I wish Iggy well, but like many on here as well as most people around baseball said, This was a good deal. the Sox dealt from a position of depth.

     



    No offense my friend, talk to me in three years and let me know how it went!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Promise4you2. Show Promise4you2's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    Congrats to peavy and drew on the win!

    I dont like facts, they cloud my irresponsible Judgement!

    I often go back to read what i wrote only to find out it's not what I said!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to Promise4you2's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to Promise4you2's comment:

     

     

    The thing that bugs me???? All you geniousous were touting our minor league pitching and how strong we were. Yet we trade a future GG for a 32 year old pitcher? Why is that? You guys change your underwear more than I can talk! Dont give me the bull we are taking the shot at this year. Stop with your fantasy baseball! Look to the future! I hope I sincerely hope we win it all, but the odds are not good!

    I dont like facts, they cloud my irresponsible Judgement!

    I often go back to read what i wrote only to find out it's not what I said!

     

     




    We do have a lot of good prospects promise. Doesnt mean they are all ready for the show just yet.

     

     

    Peavy pitched on heck of a game tonight and appears hes going to get the W.

    I wish Iggy well, but like many on here as well as most people around baseball said, This was a good deal. the Sox dealt from a position of depth.

     

     



    No offense my friend, talk to me in three years and let me know how it went!

     




    No offense taken promise. I truly understand why some are so upset about this move.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    Detroit City are going to love IGGY.... Can you imagine watching his glove in the W S & playoffs !!!



    Try imagining Peavy pitching in the WS & playoffs !!!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    Detroit City are going to love IGGY.... Can you imagine watching his glove in the W S & playoffs !!!

     



    Try imagining Peavy pitching in the WS & playoffs !!!

     




    striking out IggySealed

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to Promise4you2's comment:

    The thing that bugs me???? All you geniousous were touting our minor league pitching and how strong we were. Yet we trade a future GG for a 32 year old pitcher? Why is that? You guys change your underwear more than I can talk! Dont give me the bull we are taking the shot at this year. Stop with your fantasy baseball! Look to the future! I hope I sincerely hope we win it all, but the odds are not good!

    I dont like facts, they cloud my irresponsible Judgement!

    I often go back to read what i wrote only to find out it's not what I said!

    Why is that?  You think maybe the Red Sox want to increase their chances for a title this season?


    Maybe you should stop talking, Promise, and change your soiled Iggy underwear for some Peavy briefs.  I loved watching Iggy too, but he's wearing different laundry these days, and I'm more inclined to root for the laundry with the Boston Red Sox name on it.  I don't know if the jocks or other undergarments have team logos on them, so I'm impartial about those particular articles of clothing.

    By the way, the odds are looking better.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

     

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

     

     

    Detroit City are going to love IGGY.... Can you imagine watching his glove in the W S & playoffs !!!

     

     



    Try imagining Peavy pitching in the WS & playoffs !!!

     

     

     




    striking out IggySealed

     



     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheMaskedAvenger. Show TheMaskedAvenger's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Iggy with a broken bat bunt blooping seeing eye windblown lucky HR tonight with the Tigers.

    Peavy is doomed.

    Sox4ever

     

    4th J Iglesias homered to left (411 feet). Windblown?
     
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    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

     

    southpaw I wonder how our strength in depth would look if Drew hits the DL. Let's be real here, Drew was probably offered and the Tigers said "you must be joking". All things said Peavey is a necessary acquisition.

    Also I don't want you to take it too harshly but you point blank have been a Drew water carrier since day one and have attempted to diminish Iggy's current and long-term value like no other.

     

     



    God forbid they would have to bring Bogaerts up....those will be some big shoes to fill.

     

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Iggy Produces right away

    In response to Promise4you2's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to Promise4you2's comment:

     

     

    The thing that bugs me???? All you geniousous were touting our minor league pitching and how strong we were. Yet we trade a future GG for a 32 year old pitcher? Why is that? You guys change your underwear more than I can talk! Dont give me the bull we are taking the shot at this year. Stop with your fantasy baseball! Look to the future! I hope I sincerely hope we win it all, but the odds are not good!

    I dont like facts, they cloud my irresponsible Judgement!

    I often go back to read what i wrote only to find out it's not what I said!

     

     




    We do have a lot of good prospects promise. Doesnt mean they are all ready for the show just yet.

     

     

    Peavy pitched on heck of a game tonight and appears hes going to get the W.

    I wish Iggy well, but like many on here as well as most people around baseball said, This was a good deal. the Sox dealt from a position of depth.

     

     



    No offense my friend, talk to me in three years and let me know how it went!

     



    OMG!  Peavy is 32!  He must be over the hill.

    By the way, here are the ages of the 2004 Red Sox starting staff at the time of the post-season.

    Schilling   37 (turned 38 in November)

    Pedro      33/34 (turned 34 on October 25th)

    Wake      38

    Lowe       31

    Arroyo     27

     

     
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