Iggy Update!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    What I like about Iggy's stats is his OBP is up beyond just what the higher batting average brings.  Iggy is learning to take walks and keeping his strikeouts down.  That shows he is learning the strike zone and not giving outs away.  That said, Aviles has been very good, his recent slump aside.  Iggy is where he belongs.  And a September call up seems appropriate as things stand right now.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    Iggy is slowly , but surely starting to figure it out at Pawtucket.  B.A. is up to .262 and climbing.  When you see the lift Middlebrooks and Nava have provided, you have to think Iglesias could do it as well.  Aviles could still get a lot of playing time due to his versatility.  Farm system is looking pretty good now . Bradley is coming fast. Brentz is improving greatly.  Lavarnway is waiting in the wings. Linares looks good. Ciriaco can help any time. Barnes looks like a future ace.  Don't hold them back.

    I agree 100%, but still think you are caring a bit too much about Iggy's BA.

    I'll take .220-.240 from Iggy, if he flashes his glove and footwork, and mikey hits .260-.270.

    Besides, who knows what Iggy will hit in MLB:

    Middlebrooks:
    Minors: .276
    MLB: .304

    Reddick:
    AA:    .257
    AAA: .243
    2011: .280 MLB
    2012: .289 MLB

    Pedroia:
    AAA:  .288
    MLB: .306

    (I know, I know, there are countless examples of decline from the minors to the majors, but some guys do better.)
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    Still too soon, Moon. Still too soon. If he's still on this uptrend in 4 weeks we can debate a move and maybe deadline trades. Also, Middlebrooks is a bad example since comparing his career MiLB to MLB ignores how phenomenal he was in the first 24 games this year. Iggy is on a roll but for not as long or nearly as spectacular as Will's. Plus, who knows where Will might be in another 50 PAs.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    Aviles had 2 fielding gems last night!

    Great night for Iggy too! A homerun!

    The John Dewan Plus/Minus evaluation system (which examines every ball hit into a player’s defensive zone and compares the number of plays made by a single player to the average number of plays made on such balls) suggests that Aviles has made 13 more plays than the average shortstop on the balls hit in his direction this season. He’s made five more plays than the average shortstop on balls hit to his right, three more than average to his left (where his positioning, range and strong arm has allowed him to make a number of plays behind the second base bag) and four more than average on pop-ups. In Dewan’s system, that defensive wizardry has translated to 10 runs saved, the second highest total among all big league shortstops. Fangraphs.com’s UZR statistic pegs Aviles as the fourth best shortstop in the majors, 2.5 runs better than the average shortstop.  
    http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2012/05/15/red-sox-pregame-notes-a-surprising-source-of-strength-in-red-sox-defense-youkilis-to-rehab/
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]Aviles had 2 gems last night! Great night for Iggy too! A homerun! The John Dewan Plus/Minus evaluation system (which examines every ball hit into a player’s defensive zone and compares the number of plays made by a single player to the average number of plays made on such balls) suggests that Aviles has made 13 more plays than the average shortstop on the balls hit in his direction this season. He’s made five more plays than the average shortstop on balls hit to his right, three more than average to his left (where his positioning, range and strong arm has allowed him to make a number of plays behind the second base bag) and four more than average on pop-ups. In Dewan’s system, that defensive wizardry has translated to 10 runs saved, the second highest total among all big league shortstops. Fangraphs.com’s UZR statistic pegs Aviles as the fourth best shortstop in the majors, 2.5 runs better than the average shortstop.   http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2012/05/15/red-sox-pregame-notes-a-surprising-source-of-strength-in-red-sox-defense-youkilis-to-rehab/
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]

    Plus, in the spirit of small sample sizes that seems to be infecting virtually all posters these days, what a great play he made last night!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    If Iggy was brought up today certainly his numbers would go down from AAA and people would be unhappy with his offensive production.  But I'm loving the fact that he is showing that with some time he can make the adjustments and move up the learning curve.  At 22 years old he is starting to hit triple A pitching at a serviceable level.....who's to say he can't do the same in Fenway by next summer????

    I think we can all agree that the left side of the infield will soon be made up of Middlebrooks and Iggy.  That is 2 GG already plus 1 who is destined to compile many GG and another (Middlebrooks) who projects as a plus defender.

    The fact that the Sox are starting to win games is somewhat easing the anticipation for 2013 and seeing the young blood, but even with the Sox playing well it remains there. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    I already argued the merits of Iggy vs Mikey, but admit I may have underestimated Mikey's range.

    The point I was making here, was that many posters used a small sample size to show that Mikey was and would continue to hit way better than Iggy (at the time Mikey was rockin' and iggy was lumpin'). Now, if you use the same sample size for the past 15 games or so, as many used the first 15 games to make judgements, the shoe is now on the other foot, and those same posters are now saying "small sample size" to minimize Iggy's hot streak and mikey's cold streak. 

    I'm not saying Iggy should be called up based on 2 weeks of hitting well. I was just making a point about not using small sample sizes, but if you do,  then you should except small sample sizes points from those against your position when the tide turns (and it always does-at least for short time periods).
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Iggy Update! : because you have to look at the people they would be replacing. aviles is getting it done so far. hitting great, playing a GREAT SS, filliing in at leadoff while jacobys been out. iggys not going to replace that hitting the way he is even with his golden glove.... lava on the other hand would replace salty who is an OK bat and abysmal defensive catcher. in iggys case he is trying to replace someone who is playing GREAT you would be sacrificing a much much better bat for slightly better defense and an auto-out lava is trying to replace someone who stinks out loud... so you would be getting an offensive boost without losing much defensively.
    Posted by mef429[/QUOTE]
    "Abysmal defensive catcher." Are you watching the games? Do you know how to assess how well a catcher is handling pitchers?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]I hope Mikey catches fire again. Before tonight, he'd really hit a rough patch: 1 for 5 1/5 0/5 0/4 3/8 1/6 1/4 2/5 1/4 1/2 0/4 0/4 11 for 51  (2 BBs, 3 DBLs, No HRs) I can just imagine if Iggy came up and had numbers like this in his first 53 PAs.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Once again....Aviles is a career 285 hitter in almost 1400 ML at bats.  Why would you or anyone else be concerned about what he hits over 50 at bats?  He can hit. Anyone paying attention gets that.

    If Iggy came up and hit 200 people would be rightfully concerned because he has not proven that he can hit.  

    The fact that he is doing well at AAA really just means this was the right decision to send him down there and that hopefully he will be better prepared to be the full time SS in 2013.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    Aviles as the fourth best shortstop in the majors

    How to Lie with Statistics


    LMAO! Another elite MLB SS vicarious evaluation from Tom's Thumb!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from coachzap. Show coachzap's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]Aviles as the fourth best shortstop in the majors LMAO! Another elite MLB SS vicarious evaluation from Tom's Thumb!
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr[/QUOTE]

    Idiot
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]I already argued the merits of Iggy vs Mikey, but admit I may have underestimated Mikey's range. The point I was making here, was that many posters used a small sample size to show that Mikey was and would continue to hit way better than Iggy (at the time Mikey was rockin' and iggy was lumpin'). Now, if you use the same sample size for the past 15 games or so, as many used the first 15 games to make judgements, the shoe is now on the other foot, and those same posters are now saying "small sample size" to minimize Iggy's hot streak and mikey's cold streak.  I'm not saying Iggy should be called up based on 2 weeks of hitting well. I was just making a point about not using small sample sizes, but if you do,  then you should except small sample sizes points from those against your position when the tide turns (and it always does-at least for short time periods).
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    I think the key point you're failing to acknowledge is that Iglesias is starting to hit better because he's changed his approach.  It's not just a case of before he was cold and now he is hot.  Those of us who did not want Iglesias starting at SS at the MLB level were suggesting that he needed time at Pawtucket to develop this approach.  

    What we have seen lately is encouraging, and I definitely hope it continues throughout the season, but I think it vindicates those of us who wanted Iglesias starting the season at Pawtucket.  Iglesias hit .200 in April, with a .274 OBP and a .485 OPS.  What do you think would have happened if he got off to that kind of start with the big-league club, on top of our cold team start?  What we're starting to see now is the benefit of patience, and with Aviles continuing to play well, continued patience is the best course of action.



     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    Many here had given up completely on Iglesias's ability to hit after one down year. He should be fine over time.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]I already argued the merits of Iggy vs Mikey, but admit I may have underestimated Mikey's range. The point I was making here, was that many posters used a small sample size to show that Mikey was and would continue to hit way better than Iggy (at the time Mikey was rockin' and iggy was lumpin'). Now, if you use the same sample size for the past 15 games or so, as many used the first 15 games to make judgements, the shoe is now on the other foot, and those same posters are now saying "small sample size" to minimize Iggy's hot streak and mikey's cold streak.  I'm not saying Iggy should be called up based on 2 weeks of hitting well. I was just making a point about not using small sample sizes, but if you do,  then you should except small sample sizes points from those against your position when the tide turns (and it always does-at least for short time periods).
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    C'mon Moon.  I am sure someone out there used the first 15 games to declare Aviles the next Tulowitzki or Nomar, but the Iggy vs. Aviles debate mainly happened pre-season and most people were using Aviles career MLB stats vs. Iggy's full 2011 season at AAA.  I don't know why you'd go back to this small sample size argument.  Even now, with Iggy on a hot streak and Aviles in a slump, Aviles MLB OPS is .100 better than Iggy's AAA OPS ... and that is one day after Iggy hit his second ever professional HR ... which had a pretty big impact on his OPS.

    I like the direction of Iggy's trend and have hope he can become an easy choice to be our 2013 starting SS.  But let's be honest, the Aviles over Iggy choice was never based on small sample sizes.  Despite the potential excitement generated by a kid coming up from the minors to feature nightly web gems, Aviles as the starting SS was a clear and easy choice for the Sox.  I respect you as a poster but on this topic you are starting to sound like a man armed with a conclusion in search of facts to support it.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    111, you're missing the fact that Iggy would only have to save 30 singles over the course of the season to make up for that 100 point OPS gap (assuming 600 PA's from the #9 hitter Iggy).
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]111, you're missing the fact that Iggy would only have to save 30 singles over the course of the season to make up for that 100 point OPS gap (assuming 600 PA's from the #9 hitter Iggy).
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]

    You're missing the point that as far as player development goes Iggy is best served by spending more time at AAA and Aviles is fine to hold the fort for another year.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    We've had extended discussions about the run differentials on both O and D and how much OPS might be needed for Iggy's D to cover the gap in O.  I get it.

    My main point was that the decision was never about SSS.  My other point about the where we are at this very moment (100 point OPS gap) is that Aviles is in a slump, Iggy is on a hot streak (including just his second professional HR ever) and we are comparing AAA to MLB.  If Iggy can keep it up and maintains an OPS of .650-.670 while Aviles is ~.750, I think the decision starts to become very very close for making a change this year and certainly leans in Iggy's direction for April 2013.  The trend is good for Iggy but let's see where we are in about 4 weeks, that's all I am saying.  
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    The extra year of team control tilts this debate a long way in the direction that Ben chose.  (Same with Lava)
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]We've had extended discussions about the run differentials on both O and D and how much OPS might be needed for Iggy's D to cover the gap in O.  I get it. My main point was that the decision was never about SSS.  My other point about the where we are at this very moment (100 point OPS gap) is that Aviles is in a slump, Iggy is on a hot streak (including just his second professional HR ever) and we are comparing AAA to MLB.  If Iggy can keep it up and maintains an OPS of .650-.670 while Aviles is ~.750, I think the decision starts to become very very close for making a change this year and certainly leans in Iggy's direction for April 2013.  The trend is good for Iggy but let's see where we are in about 4 weeks, that's all I am saying.  
    Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE]

    How does this even matter?  Earlier in the season Aviles was on a hot streak while Iggy was slumping.  Yes there's a difference between AAA and MLB, but the adjustment period is something that you'll have to work through regardless of a 2012 or 2013 call up.

    Also, AFL is still professional ball, so he now has 4 HR's not 2.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]The extra year of team control tilts this debate a long way in the direction that Ben chose.  (Same with Lava)
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]

    I agree, but we're now days away from that being a non-issue.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Iggy Update! : How does this even matter?  Earlier in the season Aviles was on a hot streak while Iggy was slumping.  Yes there's a difference between AAA and MLB, but the adjustment period is something that you'll have to work through regardless of a 2012 or 2013 call up. Also, AFL is still professional ball, so he now has 4 HR's not 2.
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, but I wasn't saying Iggy would need a .750 - .800 OPS because Aviles was currently at .900.  I fully expected him to revert to somewhere in the .750 - .800 range.  Now Iggy is only 100 points below Aviles but it took two converging streaks to do it including a big boost from that HR.  More importantly, Iggy is hitting much better now than he did last year.  That development (and hopefully that's what it is) would have been much harder in the MLB and might never have happened.  Even if it did, it would have hurt the team while he was working it out.

    The bottom line is it was never about small sample sizes.  Look at Aviles career stats and look at Iggy's career in AAA.  That made the choice out of spring training very, very easy.  Obviously, I wasn't there with Ben but I think it is fairly safe to say it wasn't close ... ever.

    PS - I am pretty sure the year of control is already a non-issue.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    I think this is a silly thread.  Iglesias needs seasoning, period.  More to the point, Aviles has been decent in the field and at the plate, and the Sox are winning.  But this thread goes on and on and on and on about how Iglesias needs to be called up immediately and never, ever sent back to Pawtucket.  I do in fact look forward to the day Iglesias becomes the regular SS.   I just don't think it needs to be now. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to  Re: Iggy Update! : Yeah, but I wasn't saying Iggy would need a .750 - .800 OPS because Aviles was currently at .900.  I fully expected him to revert to somewhere in the .750 - .800 range.  Now Iggy is only 100 points below Aviles but it took two converging streaks to do it including a big boost from that HR.  More importantly, Iggy is hitting much better now than he did last year.  That development (and hopefully that's what it is) would have been much harder in the MLB and might never have happened.  Even if it did, it would have hurt the team while he was working it out. The bottom line is it was never about small sample sizes.  Look at Aviles career stats and look at Iggy's career in AAA.  That made the choice out of spring training very, very easy.  Obviously, I wasn't there with Ben but I think it is fairly safe to say it wasn't close ... ever. PS - I am pretty sure the year of control is already a non-issue.
    Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE]

    Again, I couldn't care less about "converging streaks", they had diverging streaks earlier, but no one seems to want to talk about that.  People also seem to overlook the impact of wrist injuries on players and that a fully recover typically doesn't occur for a full year.  Funny how Iggy started heating up a year after his injury, isn't it?

    The reason that the year of control is still an issue is Iggy's service time last season as well as his call up this year.  Once he was sent back down, he needs to remain in the minors for at least 20 days to not accrue service time during the new stint in the minors.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    I think the key point you're failing to acknowledge is that Iglesias is starting to hit better because he's changed his approach.  It's not just a case of before he was cold and now he is hot.  Those of us who did not want Iglesias starting at SS at the MLB level were suggesting that he needed time at Pawtucket to develop this approach.  

    Slo, you misinterpreted my position. I'm talking to the posters who are now saying Iggy is not ready, because the recent sample size is too small. But, they were the same posters who were using a tiny sample size to vault Mikey to star status by saying he'd likely have a .150 point higher OPS than Iggy based on a 2 week sample size in April..

    What we have seen lately is encouraging, and I definitely hope it continues throughout the season, but I think it vindicates those of us who wanted Iglesias starting the season at Pawtucket.  Iglesias hit .200 in April, with a .274 OBP and a .485 OPS.  What do you think would have happened if he got off to that kind of start with the big-league club, on top of our cold team start?  What we're starting to see now is the benefit of patience, and with Aviles continuing to play well, continued patience is the best course of action.

    I'm Ok with this position, and as I have said, I was wrong about Mikey's defense, so my argument based on plays made and not made appears to be flawed at this point.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    C'mon Moon.  I am sure someone out there used the first 15 games to declare Aviles the next Tulowitzki or Nomar, but the Iggy vs. Aviles debate mainly happened pre-season and most people were using Aviles career MLB stats vs. Iggy's full 2011 season at AAA.  I don't know why you'd go back to this small sample size argument.  

    Because the argument did continue into the season, and posters were using Mikey's start to "prove" they were right, and now some of those same people want to say Iggy's equal size (recent) sample is not large enough. That's why. 

    I sometimes try to expose people who use small sample sizes, by using them right back at them. 

     
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