Iggy Update!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    Moon - I see where you are going, but as I have said before looking at career numbers the pre-season choice of Aviles over Iggy was clearly the right one IMHO.  Sure, a few people might have gotten overly excited about Aviles' hot start .900 OPS but that wasn't the meat of the overall argument.

    JB - See below for what I said earlier on this topic.  As you can see, I agree with you about the wrist injury.  Also, thanks for pointing out this year's service time ... I forgot he had come up if only briefly.

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Iggy Update! : 
    I have to agree with Snake here.  Aviles has been in a slump that brought him back to (or a bit below) his career averages while Iggy has been on a hot streak.  I think you can look at Aviles MLB career OPS and compare that to Iggy's AAA career OPS and be comfortable with where each is playing for now.   

    Iggy heating up is a very good sign, though.  The timing of his hot streak (1 year after his wrist injury), the fact he hit decently in Portland prior to that injury and his age (only 22) are all very encouraging.  It is possible his Portland #'s are a better indication of his true abilities and that his AAA stats were significantly impacted by that wrist injury.  Also, while it is unlikely he will ever have significant power, he is at an age where it would not be surprising to see him begin to develop more gap power over the next couple of years.  If he has marginal improvement at the plate he should be a solid defense-first MLB SS ... and there is the possibility he could improve much further and really be something special.  Aviles is holding down the fort just fine right now giving the Sox the luxury of letting Iggy develop in the best possible environment.  I will keep dreaming of 2013 starting IF of WMB, Iggy, Pedey and AGon.
    Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE]
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    111, sorry the wrist injury was meant for some posters in general, not necessarily you.  And yes, Iggy was only up briefly and didn't even see game action.  Unfortunately it still counts Frown.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    Moon - I see where you are going, but as I have said before looking at career numbers the pre-season choice of Aviles over Iggy was clearly the right one IMHO.  Sure, a few people might have gotten overly excited about Aviles' hot start .900 OPS but that wasn't the meat of the overall argument.

    I agree that this was yours and others positions; I didn't mean to imply you were one to jump on the small sample size numbers of the first 3 weeks or so.

    You were 100% right to say the choice was clearly the right one based on what happened to start the year. I was wrong. I knew Mike could hit, but my position was based on thinking Mike was below average of worse at fielding the SS position. I was wrong there too. It is clear to me that Mike should be the FT SS now, but the dynamics are shifting in the most recent sample size. It will be a while before one can argue a change is needed.

    Mike's .731 OPS is almost identical to his career OPS, but his OBP is bit lower than his norm. If we had all agreed that Aviles would have a season with a .292 OBP, and Iggy would be over .320 in AAA by mid May I think many who wanted Aviles might have been hedging their bets (perhaps also based on faulty fielding perceptions).
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    Another 2 hit day.  Now up to .267/.324/.319 on the year (135 AB's).  Not too far from his career AA line of .285/.315/.357 in 236 PA's (221 AB's).
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    I am very encouraged by his offensive gains, even though the sample size is small, but I still maintain that we don't necessarily have to wait until we are sure he can post a .300+ MLB OBP to consider bringing him up as a FT SS.

    I admit I was wrong about the defense of Aviles (at least so far). My position was based on a wide gap between Mike and Jose that quite simply, is not there at this time. 

    It was nice to see Mike get 2 hits last night. I am pretty confident he can end up batting over .275 with more than a normal SS's share of 2Bs and HRs by the end of the season. I hope his better than average defense holds up as well.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    moon are you really a fan? So negative all the time... Cool

    Aviles helps a lot now... Iggy can wait. I just worry that even if he carries an Adam Everett bat that the team will move him out and thus repeat its mistakes over and over and over again.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    I guess the real point here is there is no controversy.  there wasn't one in spring training either.

    Aviles is fine out there and is a solid player who can hit well for a SS , Iggy gets a full year in AAA to hone his craft.  The job is then basically his to lose in 2013 if he progresses well.

    Why cant people just be happy that Iggy is hitting well at AAA without saying that he needs to come up now?


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    Aviles is fine out there and is a solid player who can hit well for a SS , Iggy gets a full year in AAA to hone his craft.  The job is then basically his to lose in 2013 if he progresses well.

    Why cant people just be happy that Iggy is hitting well at AAA without saying that he needs to come up now?

    1) I'm not saying call up Iggy now, but just said the dynamic has shifted since the 3 week mark of the 2012 season.

    2) Why is April 2013 magically "Iggy time"? The job suddenly becomes "his to lose"? Why? Why then and not August 21, 2012 or September 13, or May of 2013? Why couldn't it be July 12th, 2012? or August 5th? or...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]I am very encouraged by his offensive gains, even though the sample size is small, but I still maintain that we don't necessarily have to wait until we are sure he can post a .300+ MLB OBP to consider bringing him up as a FT SS. I admit I was wrong about the defense of Aviles (at least so far). My position was based on a wide gap between Mike and Jose that quite simply, is not there at this time.  It was nice to see Mike get 2 hits last night. I am pretty confident he can end up batting over .275 with more than a normal SS's share of 2Bs and HRs by the end of the season. I hope his better than average defense holds up as well.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    I too am encouraged by Iggy's last 10-15 games.  I'd like to see him continue with his improved plate approach for at least 4 more weeks before any judgments are made.  Even if Iggy keeps up the hot streak, I honestly don't see any harm delaying any decision to late June or early July unless Aviles tanks with the bat or the glove in dramatic fashion.  At worst, Iggy gets the September call up.

    When we last discussed Aviles v. Iggy I believe it was at the end of ST or the very beginning of the season.  At that time, my position was:
    - Using Aviles' career MLB stats and Iggy's 2011 AAA stats there was no way the team could assume Iggy would save more runs on D than he would cost at the plate
    - to replace Aviles during the season Iggy would need to project to have an MLB OPS no more than .150 below Aviles' (and preferably closer to .100).  I believe I was looking for him to be no more than .100 below when comparing AAA to MLB.
    - this was all based on an assumption that Aviles' would provide an average or slightly below average defense ... which meant that Iggy could be expected to save about 20 runs/year over Aviles on D.

    Keep in mind things have changed in more than one way: Iggy is starting to hit but Aviles has also proven to be a better SS than we initially expected.  We don't necessarily need to wait until Iggy's projected MLB OBP is over .300, but it seems very likely he wouldn't provide enough production with the bat to replace Aviles without it.  The only way that happens is if Aviles tanks or Iggy starts to hit a lot more XBH.  Time will tell so I guess we all have to be patient and see how it plays out.  Personally, I will be looking to see if Iggy can get his SLG above OBP and keep it there ... that would be a very good sign.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]Aviles is fine out there and is a solid player who can hit well for a SS , Iggy gets a full year in AAA to hone his craft.  The job is then basically his to lose in 2013 if he progresses well. Why cant people just be happy that Iggy is hitting well at AAA without saying that he needs to come up now? 1) I'm not saying call up Iggy now, but just said the dynamic has shifted since the 3 week mark of the 2012 season. 2) Why is April 2013 magically "Iggy time"? The job suddenly becomes "his to lose"? Why? Why then and not August 21, 2012 or September 13, or May of 2013? Why couldn't it be July 12th, 2012? or August 5th? or...
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Not to be sarcastic but....

    In my opinion and probably in the opinion of people in Red Sox management he should spend another full year in the minors to develop.

    This isn't an odd concept.  He is 22 and before this year had about  700 at bats from A ball up.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    I'm going to make this as simple as I can.  I think it would be terrific to have Iglesias out there every day as the full-time SS. 

    But the last time I checked it's May and the Sox are definitely in the hunt.  The bullpen is doing great, the rotation is coming around, and the lineup ain't half bad. 

    But in fact the Sox are 2 games below .500 and need to go with the best lineup they can, and that means absolutely, unequivocally the best bat at SS. 

    Am I the only one who has noticed that Aviles is 3d on the Sox in rbi's and that he has 3 more than AGon for crying out loud?  The offense is the second best in the AL because guys like Aviles, Ross, Sweeney, et al are making up for the absence of CC, Ells, Youk, and, temporarily I hope, AGon. 

    This is not, repeat not, the time to bring up Iglesias unless he starts putting up the kind of numbers Middlebrooks and Nava put up in Pawtucket. 

    I also am not buying the thesis Iggy will save a bunch of runs with his magical fielding. Some runs, yes. But not enough to make up for his lack of hitting, and by lack I mean lack in comparison to the way Aviles is hitting. Both SS's, FWIW, have committed 3 errors.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]I'm going to make this as simple as I can.  I think it would be terrific to have Iglesias out there every day as the full-time SS.  But the last time I checked it's May and the Sox are definitely in the hunt.  The bullpen is doing great, the rotation is coming around, and the lineup ain't half bad.  But in fact the Sox are 2 games below .500 and need to go with the best lineup they can, and that means absolutely, unequivocally the best bat at SS.  Am I the only one who has noticed that Aviles is 3d on the Sox in rbi's and that he has 3 more than AGon for crying out loud?  The offense is the second best in the AL because guys like Aviles, Ross, Sweeney, et al are making up for the absence of CC, Ells, Youk, and, temporarily I hope, AGon.  This is not, repeat not, the time to bring up Iglesias unless he starts putting up the kind of numbers Middlebrooks and Nava put up in Pawtucket.  I also am not buying the thesis will save a bunch of runs with his magical fielding. Some runs, yes. But not enough to make up for his lack of hitting, and by lack I mean lack in comparison to the way Aviles is hitting.
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]
    Agree. For a few games Aviles was trying to pull everything, but now he's back to hitting the ball where it's pitched.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    I too am encouraged by Iggy's last 10-15 games.  I'd like to see him continue with his improved plate approach for at least 4 more weeks before any judgments are made.  Even if Iggy keeps up the hot streak, I honestly don't see any harm delaying any decision to late June or early July unless Aviles tanks with the bat or the glove in dramatic fashion.  At worst, Iggy gets the September call up.

    When we last discussed Aviles v. Iggy I believe it was at the end of ST or the very beginning of the season.  At that time, my position was:
    - Using Aviles' career MLB stats and Iggy's 2011 AAA stats there was no way the team could assume Iggy would save more runs on D than he would cost at the plate
    - to replace Aviles during the season Iggy would need to project to have an MLB OPS no more than .150 below Aviles' (and preferably closer to .100).  I believe I was looking for him to be no more than .100 below when comparing AAA to MLB.
    - this was all based on an assumption that Aviles' would provide an average or slightly below average defense ... which meant that Iggy could be expected to save about 20 runs/year over Aviles on D.

    Keep in mind things have changed in more than one way: Iggy is starting to hit but Aviles has also proven to be a better SS than we initially expected.  We don't necessarily need to wait until Iggy's projected MLB OBP is over .300, but it seems very likely he wouldn't provide enough production with the bat to replace Aviles without it.  The only way that happens is if Aviles tanks or Iggy starts to hit a lot more XBH.  Time will tell so I guess we all have to be patient and see how it plays out.  Personally, I will be looking to see if Iggy can get his SLG above OBP and keep it there ... that would be a very good sign.

    Nice post. I only have an issue with the last sentence. I'd like to see his OBP as high as possible and hopefully a few dbls in there.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    Not to be sarcastic but....

    In my opinion and probably in the opinion of people in Red Sox management he should spend another full year in the minors to develop.

    This isn't an odd concept.  He i.22 and before this year had about  700 at bats from A ball up.  

    I understand your wanting him to get a full season in AAA, but you sounded like he needed that exact amount of time and then he'd be instantly MLB ready and the "job was his to lose"... It didn't make sense to me.

    I also think Iggy's time playing in Cuba should not be discounted.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    Iggy is not better than Iviles right now...When he is then we should bring him up.  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    Iggy had 4 hits tonight; he's officially on a hot streak. But he also had 2 errors!?
     
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    Re: Iggy Update!

    .348 BA. the past 10 games. But no walks and mostly singles.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    111,  Iggy's line on the season (after yesterday's game) .283/.335/.338

    He's gotten his SLG aboive his OBP.  Time to see if he can maintain.

    Iggy's line for the month of May (60 AB's): .400/.429/.517
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    But in fact the Sox are 2 games below .500 and need to go with the best lineup they can, and that means absolutely, unequivocally the best bat at SS.  

    Nothing is "absolute". Think of how many games we have lost this year with our gloves, arms, and defensive bunglings.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    If Ross is hurt, maybe Aviles plays OF and Iglesias moves up. Middlebrooks moved up because of Youks back.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    Just let Iggy play.  We are in last place.

    What are we waiting for?  Middlebrooks, Iggy, Pedroia, Gonzalez, and Lavarnaway.  That is your starting infield.  Keep Salty and Aviles as back ups.

    There is no reason to keep that kid in AAA - this team will not win a championship.  They will not make the playoffs. 

    If you are not a play off team - why keep players stuck in Pawtuckett? 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    We're 3.5 out from a wild card and should have Ellsbury back at some point.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]We're 3.5 out from a wild card and should have Ellsbury back at some point.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Exactly

    We are one good week away from being a playoff team.  People can say whatever they want about this team, and I would share many of those concerns with them.  But the talent is there and they are starting to pull it together.  It would be nice If Buccholz can step it up, but with Bailey/Crawford/Ellsbury coming back this team should automatically improve.  I even think Melacon should be a large contributor to this team.  He had great stuff and was a good closer in Houston and he only had very limited time in Boston in which he did struggle but is performing much better now.

    The bullpen is working (somehow but it is) and the starting pitching is coming together (still room to improve)

    I still believe there are other teams stronger and with more of a chance at a WS run than the sox....but we have the talent to make a run and with a little luck and health i think we will be ok. 

    Point being.....there is no reason to be giving up on this team just yet. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    The Sox have just as much a chance at this division this year than every other team...My one big concern is Buchholz...If he could get out of his own way we might see him be the pitcher hes capable of being...
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Iggy Update!

    In Response to Re: Iggy Update!:
    [QUOTE]Just let Iggy play.  We are in last place. What are we waiting for?  Middlebrooks, Iggy, Pedroia, Gonzalez, and Lavarnaway.  That is your starting infield.  Keep Salty and Aviles as back ups. There is no reason to keep that kid in AAA - this team will not win a championship.  They will not make the playoffs.  If you are not a play off team - why keep players stuck in Pawtuckett? 
    Posted by Schumpeters-Ghost[/QUOTE]

    Because Aviles is on pace for 30 homers and over 100 RBI and is doing a good job defensively.

    If his job isn't safe right now whose is?

     

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