Iglesias for Peavy trade--a different slant

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Promise4you2. Show Promise4you2's posts

    Re: Iglesias for Peavy trade--a different slant

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

    So let's clear up something right away.  Right now the Sox have the 7th best team ERA in the AL:  3.78.  Pretty bad, awful maybe.   Shows how badly Buchholz has been missed, how weak the bullpen is, how mediocre the rotation is, how badly Peavy is needed. 

    But guess what?  The two best records in the AL belong to the Rays and the Sox.  The Rays, who historically have relied heavily on their pitching but right now see absolutely no need to improve their pitching, carry a team ERA of 3.76. 

    Everyone got that?  Woebegone Sox pitching at 3.78; great Rays pitching 3.76.  Oh, and don't forget that the Sox play half their games at Fenway, a pitcher's nightmare. 

    To me that's not enough of a difference to justify sending Iglesias away to get a pitcher whose ERA to date this year is worse that the Sox team ERA--by half a run!  Peavy's is 4.28, and the Sox are at 3.78.  So best case Peavy is insurance, always a good thing to have for your rotation.

    But maybe the real purpose behind this trade was to get rid of Iglesias and Peavy was only a byproduct.  An exaggeration?  Absolutely. 

    But I say it to get your attention and to point out that the primary reason why the Sox were willing to let Iglesias go had to be because of his hitting.  He was terrific May-June, but now seems to be coming back to earth, and the Sox see an opportunity to let a weak hitter go because in the pennant drive they are going to need as many good bats as they can muster. 

    I would offer that both Snyder and Holt are probably better hitters than Iglesias, especially when one can start against lefties and the other against righties.  More importantly, two potentially good bats, both of whom play on the left side of the infield, are lurking at Pawtucket--Bogaerts and Middlebrooks.   

    As I have written elsewhere, the Sox historically (John Henry era) have worried much more about a good hitting lineup than a good fielding lineup.  For big chunks of this season, the Sox led MLB in runs scored, but the Tigers now have that lead.  The Sox need good hitting and will sacrifice brilliant fielding to get there.  Pedroia and Ellsbury have both won gold gloves, granted, but their primary value is they lead this team in runs and hits and are at or near the top in other hitting categories. 

     

     



    I agree with what you say no doubt. But my issue is this, BC decided to grow from within. For those here who think Peavy is ging to get them to the WS you better have another thought or two. He is no beter than Lackey or Demster. All we did was add a big salary for two years! BC bailed on what was proving to be a good line for the future. from my 45 years of watching baseball, I have never seen a trade at the trade deadline that made someone win a WS. If these sox were going to get there they did not need Peavy and his hefty salary. All we did was start to trade our future for fans to get gaga over something that WILL not happen this year, that being a WS win! I won't Knock Peavy he is a good pitcher, but he wont bring that WS ring! I will keep the kids and at the end of the season you will see guys on this board saying I wish we never made that trade. The way to the future is youth, want a dynasty? Stay with your farm team!

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Iglesias for Peavy trade--a different slant

    Is this Peavy or Jeremy Renner?  Always thought they looked alike.  How's that for a slant? 



     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Iglesias for Peavy trade--a different slant

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    We may be 7th at 3.78, but the leader now is Oakland at 3.60, a modest .18 ahead of us.

    If you use park-adjusted ERA+ we're now 3rd at +113.

    Agree.  All the more reason to question bringing in Peavy and his high salary and high ERA. 

     Peavy had legit #2 numbers last year. We have Buch hurt, Lackey who didnt pitch all of last year and Doubie who hasnt thrown more than 161IP in a season. Getting a starter with peavys potential as insurance for a playoff run is smart GMing. The playoffs are all about pitching. LOur offense can cergtainly win games, but in the playoffs, its usually the best and deepest pitching staffs that win.

     

    I entirely agree Peavy is insurance and that Lackey and Doubront could both run out of gas.  But the simple fact remains:  Peavy's ERA this year is a half run, 4.28 vs. 3.78, higher than the Sox team ERA.  Yes, last year was pretty good--32 starts, ERA 3.37, WHIP 1.10, but we are now in 2013. 

    I continue to think there is no way this trade is made if the Sox assessment of Iglesias were not "good field, no hit." 



    Max, 

    I agree in part with you on this, but only in part. The Sox obviously needed pitching help and Peavy was available and Detroit needs a SS if Peralta goes down to suspension and with that perception of Iggy returning, all field, no hit he was the obvious choice to go with a prospect waiting at Pawtucket. But if it wasn't Iggy a trade might have surfaced elsewhere for Peavy or another starter depending on who might be available. I hated to see Iggy go but I thought it was just a matter of time before his no hit label came back which it obviously did in July.

    Just my thoughts,

    Hetch 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iglesias for Peavy trade--a different slant

    Small sample size, but out of all MLb SSs with 430+ innings played at SS from 2012 to today...

    UZR/150

    1) Iggy         25.4

    2) Simmons  24.2

    3) Barnes      12.5

    4) Ryan          10.6

    5) Kozma       10.5

    6) Y Escobar   9.6

    7) JJ Hardy     9.6

    8) P Janish      8.6

    9) Peralta       8.4

    10) Penning.   8.3

    11) Cozart      7.3

    12) Zobrist    7.3

    13) A Ram     7.2

    14) E Andrus 7.0

    15) Florimon 6.3

     

    Iggy has a UZR/150 four times as good as #15 and twice as good as #3.

    Sox4ever

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from teamguy. Show teamguy's posts

    Re: Iglesias for Peavy trade--a different slant

    Will be remembered as one of our worst trades in a while.

    Release a brilliant, defensive young player for an aging pitcher who has spent significant time on the DL in 4 of the last 5 years.

    What is the Sox obsession with injury prone pitchers? 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Iglesias for Peavy trade--a different slant

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

    So let's clear up something right away.  Right now the Sox have the 7th best team ERA in the AL:  3.78.  Pretty bad, awful maybe.   Shows how badly Buchholz has been missed, how weak the bullpen is, how mediocre the rotation is, how badly Peavy is needed. 

    But guess what?  The two best records in the AL belong to the Rays and the Sox.  The Rays, who historically have relied heavily on their pitching but right now see absolutely no need to improve their pitching, carry a team ERA of 3.76. 

    Everyone got that?  Woebegone Sox pitching at 3.78; great Rays pitching 3.76.  Oh, and don't forget that the Sox play half their games at Fenway, a pitcher's nightmare. 

    To me that's not enough of a difference to justify sending Iglesias away to get a pitcher whose ERA to date this year is worse that the Sox team ERA--by half a run!  Peavy's is 4.28, and the Sox are at 3.78.  So best case Peavy is insurance, always a good thing to have for your rotation.

    But maybe the real purpose behind this trade was to get rid of Iglesias and Peavy was only a byproduct.  An exaggeration?  Absolutely. 

    But I say it to get your attention and to point out that the primary reason why the Sox were willing to let Iglesias go had to be because of his hitting.  He was terrific May-June, but now seems to be coming back to earth, and the Sox see an opportunity to let a weak hitter go because in the pennant drive they are going to need as many good bats as they can muster. 

    I would offer that both Snyder and Holt are probably better hitters than Iglesias, especially when one can start against lefties and the other against righties.  More importantly, two potentially good bats, both of whom play on the left side of the infield, are lurking at Pawtucket--Bogaerts and Middlebrooks.   

    As I have written elsewhere, the Sox historically (John Henry era) have worried much more about a good hitting lineup than a good fielding lineup.  For big chunks of this season, the Sox led MLB in runs scored, but the Tigers now have that lead.  The Sox need good hitting and will sacrifice brilliant fielding to get there.  Pedroia and Ellsbury have both won gold gloves, granted, but their primary value is they lead this team in runs and hits and are at or near the top in other hitting categories. 

     

     

    Agree ..... good post ......  "Timing is everything " !!   Howevaa, I was looking forward to watching IGGY for the next 17 years..........  "TIME", from afar will tell !!!


     



    Solution Bill--get Direct TV.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Iglesias for Peavy trade--a different slant

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

    Max why would you go to the effort and time to do this research, and write this long OP to complain about a trade that has already taken place, and will not be changed? Peavey is here, and I hope we all want him to do well.

     



    Not much research involved.  Plus this OP is not a complaint--only an analysis of why the Sox found it easy to let Iglesias go.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Iglesias for Peavy trade--a different slant

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Small sample size, but out of all MLb SSs with 430+ innings played at SS from 2012 to today...

    UZR/150

    1) Iggy         25.4

    2) Simmons  24.2

    3) Barnes      12.5

    4) Ryan          10.6

    5) Kozma       10.5

    6) Y Escobar   9.6

    7) JJ Hardy     9.6

    8) P Janish      8.6

    9) Peralta       8.4

    10) Penning.   8.3

    11) Cozart      7.3

    12) Zobrist    7.3

    13) A Ram     7.2

    14) E Andrus 7.0

    15) Florimon 6.3

     

    Iggy has a UZR/150 four times as good as #15 and twice as good as #3.

    Sox4ever



    Moonslav, your stats are invariably the best on the board, but I think it's obvious Ben C and company see Iglesias differently.  He was in a word dispensable.  It's that simple.  Peavy is a good addition, but hardly worth a starting SS for the next ten years.  I think it's obvious they didn't see him that way.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Iglesias for Peavy trade--a different slant

    I think we all agree Iggy is a fine SS and we have enjoyed watching him play but I get the feeling he needs to be in the NL where they can utilize him in different ways defensively; double switches come to mind. Offensively, utilize the bunt more than they do in the AL. He has played great 3 B in addition to SS which will increase his versatility.

    He is not the second coming of Orlando Cabrera IMHO. This move will help Iggy and it will help the Sox. The more I see Holt the more I like him. Snyder is a nice player--more of a 1 B than 3 B. I think that combo can get us to the Sept. call-up without interrupting WMB and Boggie as long as Drew stays healthy. By the way--Drew seems to me to be more comfortable at the plate since Iggy was traded.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iglesias for Peavy trade--a different slant

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Small sample size, but out of all MLb SSs with 430+ innings played at SS from 2012 to today...

    UZR/150

    1) Iggy         25.4

    2) Simmons  24.2

    3) Barnes      12.5

    4) Ryan          10.6

    5) Kozma       10.5

    6) Y Escobar   9.6

    7) JJ Hardy     9.6

    8) P Janish      8.6

    9) Peralta       8.4

    10) Penning.   8.3

    11) Cozart      7.3

    12) Zobrist    7.3

    13) A Ram     7.2

    14) E Andrus 7.0

    15) Florimon 6.3

     

    Iggy has a UZR/150 four times as good as #15 and twice as good as #3.

    Sox4ever

     



    Moonslav, your stats are invariably the best on the board, but I think it's obvious Ben C and company see Iglesias differently.  He was in a word dispensable.  It's that simple.  Peavy is a good addition, but hardly worth a starting SS for the next ten years.  I think it's obvious they didn't see him that way.  

     



    Obviously, Sox management viewed Iggy differently than I.

    I think Ben sees Boggy as next year's SS, Cecchini as the future 3Bman, and Iggy as the utility guy.

    For over 2 years, I have said, if we don't plan on making Iggy our FT SS, then trade him.

    Peavy is a good addition to this team, and I am happy he is signed through 2014. He may even get us a comp pick after 2014.

    I love great defensive play at the SS position perhaps more than anyone else. Certainly more than Ben & Co.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: Iglesias for Peavy trade--a different slant

    Could it be that they thought very highly of both players?

    There's the obvious depth at SS issue. Then the obvious need more pitching issue. 

    The Sox are a better team than anyone thought this year, including me, and i thought they'd be very competitive ( 20 more wins, 2nd or 1st place ). If they waited to trade Iggy until next year, they miss a chance to improve this year, a year when they might have a chance to go far by almost random happenstance and intelligent guesses it seems.  

    I think they thought very highly of Peavy. 

    "Don't you worry about blank, let me worry about blank"

     
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