Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    In response to seannybboi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bogaerts should take over the job at SS in less than 2 yrs.  Iggy can be traded this winter and Ivan De Jesus and Ciriaco will be sharing the duty next season with Aviles also being traded.  Bogaerts should stay at his current position and could probably hit the majors as early as late 2013 if keeps performing like he is right now.  Bogaerts are getting better and better at fielding as he plays through out the season and there shouldn't be any question marks about his offense.  I would love to see Webster and Brentz added to 40 men and get the callups to see what they've got in the big league.. also they should see signigicant time in ST 2013. 

    [/QUOTE
    Seanny, good for you.  Glad someone is getting this straight.  You hear all this talk of moving Boe somewhere else but I want him kept at shortstop where it's been a black mole since after the 2004 WS.  We need every bat we can get in the lineup and to have a power hitting SS is a bonus that can only help us.  Iglesias simply cannot hit ML pitching and he never will.  He also has very poor plate discipline and no power whatsoever.  We would have to have eight solid hitters to carry such a stiff in our lineup and we should all be painfully aware by now that every Red Sox season there are always two or three hitters we're depending on who come up with a miserable season.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    In response to snakeoil123s comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Is this like an annual rite of passage in here?

    The all 'can't-play' list-

    2012 Iggy (5 games)
    2011 Reddck
    2010 Doubront
    2009 Buchholz
    2008 Masterson
    2007 Lester
    2006 Pedey
    2005 Youk



    I missed on Pedey and Reddick.  I liked all the others.

    Again though I am not judging Iggy over 5 games.  I saw him play a bunch in Portland.  I do not think he is a bust.  I do think that the Red Sox are not going to have a guy that slugs .290 be there starting SS.

    Alex Gonzalez was possibly the best fielding SS the Sox had in a long while. That and hitting 255 with 9 homers got him a one way ticket out of town.

     



    He had the best glove, but his range was suspect.

    The RS need to get past thinking that SS has to be an offensive position.  You can win by scoring, or by reducing the other team's scoring.  Heck, just off the top of your head, do you know who plays SS for TB, Atl, Cincy or SF?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123s comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Is this like an annual rite of passage in here?

    The all 'can't-play' list-

    2012 Iggy (5 games)
    2011 Reddck
    2010 Doubront
    2009 Buchholz
    2008 Masterson
    2007 Lester
    2006 Pedey
    2005 Youk



    I missed on Pedey and Reddick.  I liked all the others.

    Again though I am not judging Iggy over 5 games.  I saw him play a bunch in Portland.  I do not think he is a bust.  I do think that the Red Sox are not going to have a guy that slugs .290 be there starting SS.

    Alex Gonzalez was possibly the best fielding SS the Sox had in a long while. That and hitting 255 with 9 homers got him a one way ticket out of town.

     



    He had the best glove, but his range was suspect.

    The RS need to get past thinking that SS has to be an offensive position.  You can win by scoring, or by reducing the other team's scoring.  Heck, just off the top of your head, do you know who plays SS for TB, Atl, Cincy or SF?

     



    I don't disagree with you in theory.  We just all have our favorites and I must say Iggy is not one of mine.  I think part of it has just been listening to softy and Bill talk about him incessantly for the past 7 months.

    I am human after all.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    In response to snakeoil123s comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123s comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Is this like an annual rite of passage in here?

    The all 'can't-play' list-

    2012 Iggy (5 games)
    2011 Reddck
    2010 Doubront
    2009 Buchholz
    2008 Masterson
    2007 Lester
    2006 Pedey
    2005 Youk



    I missed on Pedey and Reddick.  I liked all the others.

    Again though I am not judging Iggy over 5 games.  I saw him play a bunch in Portland.  I do not think he is a bust.  I do think that the Red Sox are not going to have a guy that slugs .290 be there starting SS.

    Alex Gonzalez was possibly the best fielding SS the Sox had in a long while. That and hitting 255 with 9 homers got him a one way ticket out of town.

     



    He had the best glove, but his range was suspect.

    The RS need to get past thinking that SS has to be an offensive position.  You can win by scoring, or by reducing the other team's scoring.  Heck, just off the top of your head, do you know who plays SS for TB, Atl, Cincy or SF?

     



    I don't disagree with you in theory.  We just all have our favorites and I must say Iggy is not one of mine.  I think part of it has just been listening to softy and Bill talk about him incessantly for the past 7 months.

    I am human after all.

     



    Softy is a nut cake, but he knows BB, when his mind clears.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    Going into next year, not counting arb signings, Iggy is the 5th highest paid player on this team!

    Lackey, Pedroia, Lester, and Buch followed by Iggy at over $2M. We have paid Iggy $6M to play 3 years in the minors.

    Give the kid a chance or trade him this winter.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    In response to moonslav59s comment:

    Going into next year, not counting arb signings, Iggy is the 5th highest paid player on this team!

    Lackey, Pedroia, Lester, and Buch followed by Iggy at over $2M. We have paid Iggy $6M to play 3 years in the minors.

    Give the kid a chance or trade him this winter.



    Q-When his initial deal is over, does he not go back to minimum wage?  $2M is not immaterial, nor a lot, but I'm thinking that we get him for the minimum in 2014-2016.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    I think he goes to arb after 2013, so he shouldn't get a raise, but my point is that this management team will never go for the philosophy that a great fielding SS can outweigh his eak hitting, so just trade him and get someone you will use for him.

    I'm not saying trade him because I do not want him. I'd love him to be our everyday SS next year even if he hits .220, but it AIN'T HAPPENIN' !
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    In response to moonslav59 comment:

    but my point is that this management team will never go for the philosophy that a great fielding SS can outweigh his eak hitting,



    I don't know if it's fair to say that. I think it will depend on what the lineup looks around him. But the kids still needs to hit at least .240 and be able to get on base. A sub-.200 BA isn't going to cut it. Defense is great to have but there reaches a point where it's a net loss if he can't be at least somehwhat respectable with the bat.
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    Stupid comparison.

    Robinson wasn't a SS.

    Robinson batted .238 as a rookie (age 21) then hit below .250 just once between ages 22 and age 37 AND was a .275 hitter during that span.

    Robinson had some pop. The year between ages 22 and 37 when Robinson hit below .250, he batted . 234 with 23 HRs and 84 RBIs. Iggy won't hit 23 homers in his career, let alone in one season. 

    And this isn't the 1960s and 1970s.

    So tell me. What year from Robinson's rookie year through age 37 for Robinson would Iggy have -- assuming they played the same position -- benched Robinson.

    You might do better to compare him with Belanger, but ...

    This isn't the 1960s and 1970s.

    But fine, I'll go a bit lower but if he's just batting0 .210, .212, he's a liability.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    In response to TrotterNixon's comment:

    But the kids still needs to hit at least .240

    That would bench Brooks Robinsion, at least a season or two. One can't be serious and claim that .40 poins in a BA matters for a talented defensive SS. Get real.



    Oh!  I get it.  Did Iggy get a hit tonight??  He was 0 for 16 as of 10:00 p.m EST.  Perhaps he's now 1 for 20???  Did he actually get a hit in the bigs??  WOW!  I better go check out the game.

    Thanks for the update Softy!  :)
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    In response to TrotterNixon's comment:

    But the kids still needs to hit at least .240

    That would bench Brooks Robinsion, at least a season or two. One can't be serious and claim that .40 poins in a BA matters for a talented defensive SS. Get real.



    He did almost make a hell of an easy double play last night!  I forget.....  How many outs did he get on that almost double play???  ZERO???  NO!  Come on??  Avilles has "meat hands?"
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    In response to seannybboi's comment:

    Bogaerts should take over the job at SS in less than 2 yrs.  Iggy can be traded this winter and Ivan De Jesus and Ciriaco will be sharing the duty next season with Aviles also being traded.  Bogaerts should stay at his current position and could probably hit the majors as early as late 2013 if keeps performing like he is right now.  Bogaerts are getting better and better at fielding as he plays through out the season and there shouldn't be any question marks about his offense.  I would love to see Webster and Brentz added to 40 men and get the callups to see what they've got in the big league.. also they should see signigicant time in ST 2013. 



    you are right on it!
    make it al so!...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    In response to royf19 comment:

    In response to moonslav59 comment:

    but my point is that this management team will never go for the philosophy that a great fielding SS can outweigh his weak hitting,



    I don't know if it's fair to say that. I think it will depend on what the lineup looks around him. But the kids still needs to hit at least .240 and be able to get on base. A sub-.200 BA isn't going to cut it. Defense is great to have but there reaches a point where it's a net loss if he can't be at least somehwhat respectable with the bat.

     



    Not if he can create 50-100 outs out of hits. I'll take .220 if he can do that.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    In response to moonslav59 comment:

    In response to royf19 comment:

    In response to moonslav59 comment:

    but my point is that this management team will never go for the philosophy that a great fielding SS can outweigh his weak hitting,



    I don't know if it's fair to say that. I think it will depend on what the lineup looks around him. But the kids still needs to hit at least .240 and be able to get on base. A sub-.200 BA isn't going to cut it. Defense is great to have but there reaches a point where it's a net loss if he can't be at least somehwhat respectable with the bat.

     



    Not if he can create 50-100 outs out of hits. I'll take .220 if he can do that.

     



    Really, I don't know exactly what the minimum BA would be that would still be a net gain because of the defense. It really is hard to quantify. I think too many overstate the defensive benefits. I'm not saying a good glove doesn't help and you certainly don't want a stiff at the position. I still think .220 is too low of a batting average, especially if you can find a better bat and w/o losing a lot defensively.

    Because Iggy has no pop, I'm uncomfortable with going foward with him if he's hitting .220.  I'd be more comfortable  with him at .240, although if the rest of the lineup is solid, maybe the .230s. At this point because Aviles can play other positions -- he's earned the right to be in the lineup every day -- I'd throw Iggy out there every day to see what he can do. 

    In the minors this year, he started horribly then got comfortable and got his average up to .269, which means considering that he was batting under .200 for a good part of the early weeks, he probably was batting close to .300 since then.

    So people who are writing him off after a handful of at-bats are just as much out of line as those who wanted to start him back in April. Everyone needs to settle down and give the kid a chance.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    hahahaha.  this thread is fantastic.  so, isnt this what you all have been griping about for the past 3 months???!!! 
    "trade the veterans"
    "dump a-gon"
    "trade Youk"
    "dont sign ortiz"
    "bring up the kids"
    "trade proven MLB talent for PROSPECTS"
    well, guess what?  you got your wish.
    welcome to small market baseball at big market prices.
    now you are all going to complain about "kids" playing and suking?
    well, BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    In response to moonslav59s comment:

    In response to royf19 comment:

    In response to moonslav59 comment:

    but my point is that this management team will never go for the philosophy that a great fielding SS can outweigh his weak hitting,



    I don't know if it's fair to say that. I think it will depend on what the lineup looks around him. But the kids still needs to hit at least .240 and be able to get on base. A sub-.200 BA isn't going to cut it. Defense is great to have but there reaches a point where it's a net loss if he can't be at least somehwhat respectable with the bat.

     



    Not if he can create 50-100 outs out of hits. I'll take .220 if he can do that.

     



    That remains to be seen.  Aviles is 8th in assists, with less IPs than 6 of the guys ahead of him.  He has more assists per IP than Andrus and Reyes, and about the same as Escobar.  I'm a defense first type for SS's, but I wouldn't expect him to magically double Aviles' range. OTOH, I don't think he is that much behind guys like Aviles on offense.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    In response to Joebreidey comment:

    In response to moonslav59 comment:

    In response to royf19 comment:

    In response to moonslav59 comment:

    but my point is that this management team will never go for the philosophy that a great fielding SS can outweigh his weak hitting,



    I don't know if it's fair to say that. I think it will depend on what the lineup looks around him. But the kids still needs to hit at least .240 and be able to get on base. A sub-.200 BA isn't going to cut it. Defense is great to have but there reaches a point where it's a net loss if he can't be at least somehwhat respectable with the bat.

     



    Not if he can create 50-100 outs out of hits. I'll take .220 if he can do that.

     



    That remains to be seen.  Aviles is 8th in assists, with less IPs than 6 of the guys ahead of him.  He has more assists per IP than Andrus and Reyes, and about the same as Escobar.  I'm a defense first type for SS's, but I wouldn't expect him to magically double Aviles' range. OTOH, I don't think he is that much behind guys like Aviles on offense.

     



    I was one who wanted Iggy to start this spring based on "saved hits" or "created outs" by his better glove & range. I showed how some short stops make 100+ more plays than others over a full season. However, as the season progressed, I recognized and mentioned that Aviles was not as bad as I assumed, so yes, it would be very hard for Iggy to make 100 more plays than Aviles made this year. For arguments sake, lets say he makes 25 more plays over a season. that is like a guy going 125 for 500 (.250) vs 100 for 500 (.200 BA). As you can see, it can make a big difference. 

    Iggy's lack of power along with the low BA/OBP could outweigh any gains we get on defense, so I am not so big on Iggy vs Aviles anymore.
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    Its nice to know that once the "safety net" is removed, there are so many charitable people like you to step in and fill the void. You are a true American hero!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    iggy simply needs to call up jeter's " trainer".  voila!  no more "light hitting".
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Iglesias - Not the Answer at SS

    In response to TrotterNixon's comment:

    Stupid comparison.

    Robinson wasn't a SS.

    Actually, in your irrogance, you show your idiocy. 3B was the precise reason for the comparison, which places more of a premium on hitting than SS. Robinson was light hitting 3B.

    Roy, your emotions overtook what little brain function you have. 40 points mean nothing for a SS that is highly skilled at fielding the position. Steroids are on the decline, so your nonsnes about "this isn't the 1960's" is absurd.

    Aviles is a bum. Lowrie is a bum. These guys aren't everyday SS material and are the very liability you hysterically claim is attached to 40 points in a SS's BA.

    I seldom read your comments, but, given the tiny collective intelligence of those that read this board, I felt a federal government duty to intervene and help the hapless Wards of the State.



    Thanks for pointing out the "Irrogant nonsnes" in his post. 

    Wow.
     
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