Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    A week or so ago I started a thread about how much Leyland likes Iglesias and basically said I had no quarrel with starting the brilliant rookie SS formerly of the Sox.

    But today I looked at some ALDS stats.  Granted, a small sample, but also a crucial part of the season.  Reggie Jackson would be long forgotten were it not for those 3 dingers in one WS game.

    What I found is Iglesias unsurprisingly can't hit spit against Oakland pitching.  His OPS--that's OBP plus slugging percetage--is an appallingly low .237.  With a little effort he could get it close to the mendoza line tonight. 

    Then I looked at the former Tigers SS Peralta's OPS because he is in fact off of probation.  His OPS is 1.250, over 5 times as high as the new SS.  That he even has an OPS is thanks to his willingness to play LF instead of SS.  No way will Jim Leyland allow anyone to displace his magical SS Iglesias.

    So, yes, Peralta's in the lineup, so no problem, right?  Not quite.  See, Peralta replaced leftfielder Kelly, and his OPS in the ALDS is 1.333.  Now I don't think it takes a genius to see that Leyland is giving up a lot of hitting to keep Iglesias at SS.

    But it gets better.  One of the favorite themes of the Iglesias believers is he gets to balls other SS's just can't get to.  A perfect example is over the hill, broke down, wrong race SS Stephen Drew.  Slow.  No range.  All of which explains his low error rate.  He probably doesn't get to more than a grounder every 4 games or so.  Guess what?  In the four games to date Drew has had 18 fielding chances--with no errors--to Iglesias's 9 fielding chances, also with no errors. 

    Again, it is important to acknowledge we are only talking about 4 games, not a season and not even a month. 

    But these are pretty darn important games, and my question of Leyland would be, why in the sam hill are you playing a guy at SS who isn't getting many balls hit to him and can't hit a lick?  Why not go with the good hitting Peralta, presumably with less range, at SS and get the good hitting Kelly back out there in left field?  Did I forget to mention the Tigers must win Thursday or they are gone? 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    A week or so ago I started a thread about how much Leyland likes Iglesias and basically said I had no quarrel with starting the brilliant rookie SS formerly of the Sox.

    But today I looked at some ALDS stats.  Granted, a small sample, but also a crucial part of the season.  Reggie Jackson would be long forgotten were it not for those 3 dingers in one WS game.

    What I found is Iglesias unsurprisingly can't hit spit against Oakland pitching.  His OPS--that's OBP plus slugging percetage--is an appallingly low .237.  With a little effort he could get it close to the mendoza line tonight. 

    Then I looked at the former Tigers SS Peralta's OPS because he is in fact off of probation.  His OPS is 1.250, over 5 times as high as the new SS.  That he even has an OPS is thanks to his willingness to play LF instead of SS.  No way will Jim Leyland allow anyone to displace his magical SS Iglesias.

    So, yes, Peralta's in the lineup, so no problem, right?  Not quite.  See, Peralta replaced leftfielder Kelly, and his OPS in the ALDS is 1.333.  Now I don't think it takes a genius to see that Leyland is giving up a lot of hitting to keep Iglesias at SS.

    But it gets better.  One of the favorite themes of the Iglesias believers is he gets to balls other SS's just can't get to.  A perfect example is over the hill, broke down, wrong race SS Stephen Drew.  Slow.  No range.  All of which explains his low error rate.  He probably doesn't get to more than a grounder every 4 games or so.  Guess what?  In the four games to date Drew has had 18 fielding chances--with no errors--to Iglesias's 9 fielding chances, also with no errors. 

    Again, it is important to acknowledge we are only talking about 4 games, not a season and not even a month. 

    But these are pretty darn important games, and my question of Leyland would be, why in the sam hill are you playing a guy at SS who isn't getting many balls hit to him and can't hit a lick?  Why not go with the good hitting Peralta, presumably with less range, at SS and get the good hitting Kelly back out there in left field?  Did I forget to mention the Tigers must win Thursday or they are gone? 



    Easy answer:  Jim reads the BDC Front Burner.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    Was thinking last night how bad it would have looked had Peavey pitched terrible RS lost and Price shut down RS in Game 5. Thank God! would have brought back all the Iggy lovers. While I still think this trade could hurt in long run, at least for now still looks like a good trade. Considering we did not know if Buch would be back, Ben had to make this trade. With Iggy hitting .083 for Tigers in playoffs and Peavy pitching well in a clinching game, everything coming up roses for Ben C.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    spaceman, I trust that means you agree with me. 

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?


    garyhow, I am not trying to justify the trade.  It's done, and we have to live with the consequences, bad or good. 

    What I am saying is that maybe Leyland fell in love with his SS and has blinders about what that means for the team and their chances of winning.  Ellsbury was the Sox wunderkind in 2007 and played in the WS, but in 2008 in the playoffs he wasn't hitting, so Francona put Crisp back out there.  Last night Farrell took Drew and Salty both out to try to sequeeze out a run or two.  Iglesias has played every inning of every Detroit ALDS game. 

    From a larger perspective, I think the Sox FO decided Iglesias might not be able to hit, and they wanted a SS who could, like Drew or Bogaerts, and Peavy was an important bonus. 

    If Iglesias starts and doesn't hit tonight and the Tigers lose, Leyland will have blundered if he hasn't already. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    spaceman, I trust that means you agree with me. 

     



    Entirely good sir.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    A week or so ago I started a thread about how much Leyland likes Iglesias and basically said I had no quarrel with starting the brilliant rookie SS formerly of the Sox.

    But today I looked at some ALDS stats.  Granted, a small sample, but also a crucial part of the season.  Reggie Jackson would be long forgotten were it not for those 3 dingers in one WS game.

    What I found is Iglesias unsurprisingly can't hit spit against Oakland pitching.  His OPS--that's OBP plus slugging percetage--is an appallingly low .237.  With a little effort he could get it close to the mendoza line tonight. 

    Then I looked at the former Tigers SS Peralta's OPS because he is in fact off of probation.  His OPS is 1.250, over 5 times as high as the new SS.  That he even has an OPS is thanks to his willingness to play LF instead of SS.  No way will Jim Leyland allow anyone to displace his magical SS Iglesias.

    So, yes, Peralta's in the lineup, so no problem, right?  Not quite.  See, Peralta replaced leftfielder Kelly, and his OPS in the ALDS is 1.333.  Now I don't think it takes a genius to see that Leyland is giving up a lot of hitting to keep Iglesias at SS.

    But it gets better.  One of the favorite themes of the Iglesias believers is he gets to balls other SS's just can't get to.  A perfect example is over the hill, broke down, wrong race SS Stephen Drew.  Slow.  No range.  All of which explains his low error rate.  He probably doesn't get to more than a grounder every 4 games or so.  Guess what?  In the four games to date Drew has had 18 fielding chances--with no errors--to Iglesias's 9 fielding chances, also with no errors. 

    Again, it is important to acknowledge we are only talking about 4 games, not a season and not even a month. 

    But these are pretty darn important games, and my question of Leyland would be, why in the sam hill are you playing a guy at SS who isn't getting many balls hit to him and can't hit a lick?  Why not go with the good hitting Peralta, presumably with less range, at SS and get the good hitting Kelly back out there in left field?  Did I forget to mention the Tigers must win Thursday or they are gone? 



    Heck, even *I* agree with you and I may be the biggest Iggy supporter here! 

    Given where Iggy is and where the Tigers are at this point what Leyland is doing makes NO sense.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    .

    So, yes, Peralta's in the lineup, so no problem, right?  Not quite.  See, Peralta replaced leftfielder Kelly, and his OPS in the ALDS is 1.333.  Now I don't think it takes a genius to see that Leyland is giving up a lot of hitting to keep Iglesias at SS.

     



    like I said the otherday

    this is more about

    iggy over kelly

    who hit 222 avg 309 OBP for THE YEAR

    229/ 290 life time

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from spewey. Show spewey's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Reggie Jackson would be long forgotten were it not for those 3 dingers in one WS game.

    I didn't like Reggie at all but that is a little extreme isn't it?  The guy is a Hall of Famer.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    A week or so ago I started a thread about how much Leyland likes Iglesias and basically said I had no quarrel with starting the brilliant rookie SS formerly of the Sox.

    But today I looked at some ALDS stats.  Granted, a small sample, but also a crucial part of the season.  Reggie Jackson would be long forgotten were it not for those 3 dingers in one WS game.

    What I found is Iglesias unsurprisingly can't hit spit against Oakland pitching.  His OPS--that's OBP plus slugging percetage--is an appallingly low .237.  With a little effort he could get it close to the mendoza line tonight. 

    Then I looked at the former Tigers SS Peralta's OPS because he is in fact off of probation.  His OPS is 1.250, over 5 times as high as the new SS.  That he even has an OPS is thanks to his willingness to play LF instead of SS.  No way will Jim Leyland allow anyone to displace his magical SS Iglesias.

    So, yes, Peralta's in the lineup, so no problem, right?  Not quite.  See, Peralta replaced leftfielder Kelly, and his OPS in the ALDS is 1.333.  Now I don't think it takes a genius to see that Leyland is giving up a lot of hitting to keep Iglesias at SS.

    But it gets better.  One of the favorite themes of the Iglesias believers is he gets to balls other SS's just can't get to.  A perfect example is over the hill, broke down, wrong race SS Stephen Drew.  Slow.  No range.  All of which explains his low error rate.  He probably doesn't get to more than a grounder every 4 games or so.  Guess what?  In the four games to date Drew has had 18 fielding chances--with no errors--to Iglesias's 9 fielding chances, also with no errors. 

    Again, it is important to acknowledge we are only talking about 4 games, not a season and not even a month. 

    But these are pretty darn important games, and my question of Leyland would be, why in the sam hill are you playing a guy at SS who isn't getting many balls hit to him and can't hit a lick?  Why not go with the good hitting Peralta, presumably with less range, at SS and get the good hitting Kelly back out there in left field?  Did I forget to mention the Tigers must win Thursday or they are gone? 



    While Iggy hasn't been around the MLB long enough to know what his hitting norms are, I think your thread is more provocative than insightful.  As you said, it's a small sample, and even some of the greatest hitters to ever play the game have fired blanks in their post season appearances, including Teddy Ballgame with his .200 post-season BA and .533 OPS in 30 plate appearances.  

    I'm not taking the bait, Max, even though I would be considered one of the fans in the pro-trade Iggy for Peavy column.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    Sheriff, thanks very much for taking the opposite side.  First, about Ted Williams.  By 1946, he had already established himself as one of the greatest if not the greatest hitters then playing MLB, so of course his manager would stay with him for all 7 games. 

    Not so with Iglesias.  His hitting has always been suspect.  His fielding his anything but suspect and is in fact superb, but what's the point when so few balls are hit his way? 

    While I stated repeatedly this is a small sample, four games, I actually think a good manager has to think differently in the playoffs because four games is 4/5 of his ALDS season.  That's why I cited the example of Ellsbury in 2008, or I could have said how Francona replaced starter Coco Crisp in the 2007 playoffs.  You gotta, gotta go with the hot bat and dump the cold one where it makes sense, and in this case with Iglesias it makes all kinds of sense.

    Last night we saw both managers, Maddon and Farrell, manage differently because it's the postseason.  Maddon used 9 pitchers in 9 innings and replaced his starter in the second inning in a scoreless game!  And it was absolutely the right move.  Farrell took Peavy out with a 1-0 score in the 6th inning and a 74 pitch count.  Insane in the regular season, but it made sense last night because the Sox had a chance to close out the Rays. 

    FWIW, feel free to jump all over this OP if Iglesias starts tonight, gets a couple hits, makes a couple of great plays, and the Tigers win. 

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    I think some fans feel the need to support the front office by bashing the traded Sox players. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    I think some fans feel the need to support the front office by bashing the traded Sox players. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    I think some people didn't think Iggy was a big deal before he was traded.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    In response to 37stories' comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    I think some fans feel the need to support the front office by bashing the traded Sox players. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     



    I think some people didn't think Iggy was a big deal before he was traded.

     



    That might be, but I wasn't one of them. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    I think some fans feel the need to support the front office by bashing the traded Sox players. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    Who is trashing Iglesias?  I stated repeatedly he is a great fielding SS, but not a good hitter.  The postseason ends tomorrow if the Tigers don't win.  Iglesias' hitting isn't their only problem but it is a fixable one.  Start Peralta at SS and Kelly in LF.  Good as he is--and he is--Iglesias is still just a rookie who ain't hitting.  He is not the anointed one. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to 37stories' comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

     

    I think some fans feel the need to support the front office by bashing the traded Sox players. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     

     



    I think some people didn't think Iggy was a big deal before he was traded.

     

     

     



    That might be, but I wasn't one of them. 

     



    ...and you weren't alone.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

    .

    So, yes, Peralta's in the lineup, so no problem, right?  Not quite.  See, Peralta replaced leftfielder Kelly, and his OPS in the ALDS is 1.333.  Now I don't think it takes a genius to see that Leyland is giving up a lot of hitting to keep Iglesias at SS.

     

     



    like I said the otherday

     

    this is more about

    iggy over kelly

    who hit 222 avg 309 OBP for THE YEAR

    229/ 290 life time

     



    No, this is more about a compulsive need to criticize the RS FO by some of the posters.  I like Iggy more than most.  I thought we'd have MB, Pedey, Iggy, and Bogie across the IF for a while.

    And I thought we got slightly the worse end of the deal.

    Having said that, the need for the trade was perfectly obvious.  And we had Drew for this year, and Bogie next year, and Marrero in reserve.

    The need for some of the posters to be hyper-critical is bizzarre.

    But I am still not judging the trade on how Peavy did last night.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc1944. Show MadMc1944's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    Peavy did an acceptable job. Iggy  is not hitting right now. Myers fortunately for the Sox hasn't hit in the playoffs. Maddon didn't bench him. If I'm Leyland I keep Iggy as the #9 batter and hope he can bunt someone into scoring position or make a great play to close out an inning. With Drew in the Rays series, he had a couple of hits but he was in there truthfully for his defense.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    Because IGGY is worth 1.5 runs with his glove for his pitchers.....   Also, all year long "adds a spark" to the club......   Forget the B A, the kid is a WINAAAAA   !!!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to 37stories' comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

     

     

    I think some fans feel the need to support the front office by bashing the traded Sox players. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     

     



    I think some people didn't think Iggy was a big deal before he was traded.

     

     

     



    That might be, but I wasn't one of them. 

     



    I know you have been consistent. I have never been a big fan of Iggy. He did play extremely well for us this year, but I just don't think he will have as good a career as many here think.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    Because IGGY is worth 1.5 runs with his glove for his pitchers.....   Also, all year long "adds a spark" to the club......   Forget the B A, the kid is a WINAAAAA   !!!



    Really? do did Detroits team ERA go down 1.5 runs a game after he joined Detroit?

    Because if it didn't you are wrong.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from czap. Show czap's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    Because IGGY is worth 1.5 runs with his glove for his pitchers.....   Also, all year long "adds a spark" to the club......   Forget the B A, the kid is a WINAAAAA   !!!




    What exactly has he won? I likke Iggy and unlike some I would start him in Game 5. The comparison is with Kelly and he outhit him all year.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    In response to 37stories' comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    Because IGGY is worth 1.5 runs with his glove for his pitchers.....   Also, all year long "adds a spark" to the club......   Forget the B A, the kid is a WINAAAAA   !!!

     



    Really? do did Detroits team ERA go down 1.5 runs a game after he joined Detroit?

     

    Because if it didn't you are wrong.

       I think that it is the "SPARK" and excitement that he brigs that puts his pitchers in "a better place" ..... The actual ERA (I certainly have no idea) As Hillary would say ..... "What difference does it make"  !!!


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    It's simple: he values SS fielding more than hitting.

    Sox4ever

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Iglesias--what is Jim Leyland thinking?

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:

    Peavy did an acceptable job. Iggy  is not hitting right now. Myers fortunately for the Sox hasn't hit in the playoffs. Maddon didn't bench him. If I'm Leyland I keep Iggy as the #9 batter and hope he can bunt someone into scoring position or make a great play to close out an inning. With Drew in the Rays series, he had a couple of hits but he was in there truthfully for his defense.



    Myers hit well all year, not so Iggy.  Peraltas WAR as SS is like 3d best among AL shortstops.  Iglesias is probably the best SS long term, but right now is not.  

     
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