I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

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    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

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    I would also be willing to bet that JBJ will put up a similar line of .275/.374/.469 in a full season in 2014, perhaps not as good as that but I think he will be closer to those numbers than his numbers in Boston in 2013.  All of this wrapped up in a defensive package that should be an upgrade over Ellsbury.

    .......I'm not worried about JBJ at all, as a matter of fact I'm looking forward to it. 

     

     



    OFFENSIVELY... My prediction for JBJ at best will be 257/320/400 with maybe a.640 to .720 OPS.  Anything higher would be a plus because he hasn't shown us much of anything other than in ST against rusty/scrub pitching.  No way on earth this kid sees a .374 OBP unless he is dreaming about Pede or Papi.

     

     

    DEFENSIVELY ... He will have a few more errors than some think

     

     

     



    No way on earth based on what?  he walks, he is dedicated student who is focused on refining his plate approach.  This is a kid who in college would take extra batting practice, trying to induce fould balls on pitches outside and on the border....just so he can be that guy to take more pitches and work counts.

     

    I agree that .374 is a lot to ask of him in his first year. But I think he can do better than .320  He put up a .317 in the majors in his second half of the season, and like I said before we should expect him to still get better. 

    I think he ends up being around .330 OBP guy his first year with even higher OBP years as he matures.

     

     There's a reason why his stock shot up last year. 

     

    And why do you think he will "have more errors than some will think" based off of what? his defense is, has been, and will continue to be ready and elite and eve that he flashed last year in Boston.  

    And even if his error numbers are up, looking at total number of errors is a highly inefficient way to measure the quality of someones defense. 

    [/QUOTE]

    steamer agrees with you on the OBP

    256 Avg, 336 OBP, 402 Slg

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's funny I haven't even checked steamers out yet.

    I think JBJ offensive ceiling is a leadoff hitter, because he might fit that high OBP profile.  It is however competely unrealistic to expect that of him next season.  Perhaps in a year or two....but who knows maybe they could plug him in there by seasons end.

    That is a hole.  

    I think a Nava/Victorino platoon in the leadoff spot will be good enough, but It would be nice to have one guy to count on and plug in there. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree and think the kid will be great in a year or two.  Those numbers are realistic I'm just not one of those fans who is going to predict we forget about Ells just yet.

    [/QUOTE]

    fair enough, and i don't think JBJ is going to replace else offensively.  But I think he will be good enough, and for your first year thats pretty darn good.

    And in the end it's the sum of the team as a whole, perhaps we are stronger in other areas next year.

    But either way we break it down......2013 is a tough act to follow. 

    [/QUOTE]

    With a couple more solid additions we could be right back in it.  I just think as of today we have lost too much depth if Drew and Ells leave without backup at both positions.  I'm fine with allowing the kids to show what they have as long as we pull the trigger quick enough on poor performances to stay in the race all season.

    We did it last year when players struggled but will need to go outside the farm for help this season in my opinion.  I think these young players and our team needs one big (Papi centerpiece) for the future.  He is the one guy our players look up to for big/consistent numbers.  If he goes down or begins to decline it will really hurt. 

    I think only then our FO may realize whats really missing.

    [/QUOTE]

    Like I said last year is a tough show to follow, we definitely have holes....but we had holes last year as well.  I think we are in it next year too, especially with two wild cards.

    I agree we need depth, unfortunately it's either go out and buy a starter or go with our youth, because back up are back ups for a reason.

    I expect our rookies to go through some adversity, but I think there is a decent chance of Bogaerts adding a lot more production than Drew did, and that could make up for what we lose in CF.  

    I also think this year and next were kinda bridge years in a sense to this huge wave of talent we have in the minors.  This comes without saying some will bust, some will be traded etc etc and that's a whole other conversation....but we won a WS in one of those years.  When you do that....your organization is doing something right.

    What made this past year so special was how low expectations were coming into the season.  I think we all understand that even with a great team you can't win it every year......but hey then again how sweet would it be to win back to back WS????

    [/QUOTE]

        Back to back WS wins would be great. Not easy but within reach. Your point earlier about JBJ in the lead off spot is where I would like to see him. He has shown some plate patience and that's a good starting point. Having the same guy lead off every game is a plus. Having won the WS last year my hope is they continue to develop their own talent and if they do you can expect to see a competitive team for years to come.

    [/QUOTE]

    Probably not a great idea leading off JBJ unless he really proves himself.  He had a lot of work to do at the plate from what I saw last season.  He didn't show me anywhere near the plate discipline Bogy did.

     
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    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
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    [/QUOTE]

    Like I said last year is a tough show to follow, we definitely have holes....but we had holes last year as well.  I think we are in it next year too, especially with two wild cards.

    I agree we need depth, unfortunately it's either go out and buy a starter or go with our youth, because back up are back ups for a reason.

    I expect our rookies to go through some adversity, but I think there is a decent chance of Bogaerts adding a lot more production than Drew did, and that could make up for what we lose in CF.  

    I also think this year and next were kinda bridge years in a sense to this huge wave of talent we have in the minors.  This comes without saying some will bust, some will be traded etc etc and that's a whole other conversation....but we won a WS in one of those years.  When you do that....your organization is doing something right.

    What made this past year so special was how low expectations were coming into the season.  I think we all understand that even with a great team you can't win it every year......but hey then again how sweet would it be to win back to back WS????

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed, I predicted we would would make the PS but never expected another championship.  I'm fine with and plan on a couple of bridge seasons if the talent pans out.  Bogy should begin to give us a little of the excitement lost from Jacoby but I don't expect big seasons out of Middy or JBJ.  Nava also had a (career year) that may not be duplicated.  

    It would be great just not expected!

    [/QUOTE]

    I think WMB might be the wild card that surprises a lot of people.  I'm not counting on it, or expecting it, but i wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he exceeded expectations.  Let's remember that he endured a wrist injury that has a history of slowing hitters down for over a year.  It's not career threatening, but it might have partially explained his struggles last year.  I look back and remember when papi suffered the same injury and not only was he not the same player but the entire 2009 season was a down year for him, his OPS was almost 150 points lower than his career avg.  He has a .962 OPS in Boston and in 09 that slipped 168 points to .794.  Obviously WMB is not Ortiz, but the injury and how it effects ones swing is the same story.

    I don't think he will ever be the prototypical Sox hitter of a plus OBP guy who walks a ton, but I think his power and hit tool could make him easily .320 .330 guy with plus power.  With his low walk and high strike out total thought he will likely be a #6 #7 hitter on this team.  No one with those kinda numbers will ever hurt their team batting towards the bottom of the order.

    Like I said, I'm not betting on it, nor should we count on it......but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.  I kind of said the same thing about John Lackey last year, I didn't expect him to have a bounce back season but i wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he had a stellar year.  And he did, maybe we will see that in 2014 as well.

    I can tell you this though, there will be 2-3 guys who have years next year that is way better than anyone expected, and there will be a few guys that have down years or get injured as well. 

     
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    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

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    I would also be willing to bet that JBJ will put up a similar line of .275/.374/.469 in a full season in 2014, perhaps not as good as that but I think he will be closer to those numbers than his numbers in Boston in 2013.  All of this wrapped up in a defensive package that should be an upgrade over Ellsbury.

    .......I'm not worried about JBJ at all, as a matter of fact I'm looking forward to it. 

     

     



    OFFENSIVELY... My prediction for JBJ at best will be 257/320/400 with maybe a.640 to .720 OPS.  Anything higher would be a plus because he hasn't shown us much of anything other than in ST against rusty/scrub pitching.  No way on earth this kid sees a .374 OBP unless he is dreaming about Pede or Papi.

     

     

    DEFENSIVELY ... He will have a few more errors than some think

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    No way on earth based on what?  he walks, he is dedicated student who is focused on refining his plate approach.  This is a kid who in college would take extra batting practice, trying to induce fould balls on pitches outside and on the border....just so he can be that guy to take more pitches and work counts.

     

     

    I agree that .374 is a lot to ask of him in his first year. But I think he can do better than .320  He put up a .317 in the majors in his second half of the season, and like I said before we should expect him to still get better. 

    I think he ends up being around .330 OBP guy his first year with even higher OBP years as he matures.

     

     There's a reason why his stock shot up last year. 

     

    And why do you think he will "have more errors than some will think" based off of what? his defense is, has been, and will continue to be ready and elite and eve that he flashed last year in Boston.  

    And even if his error numbers are up, looking at total number of errors is a highly inefficient way to measure the quality of someones defense. 

    [/QUOTE]

    steamer agrees with you on the OBP

    256 Avg, 336 OBP, 402 Slg

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's funny I haven't even checked steamers out yet.

    I think JBJ offensive ceiling is a leadoff hitter, because he might fit that high OBP profile.  It is however competely unrealistic to expect that of him next season.  Perhaps in a year or two....but who knows maybe they could plug him in there by seasons end.

    That is a hole.  

    I think a Nava/Victorino platoon in the leadoff spot will be good enough, but It would be nice to have one guy to count on and plug in there. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree and think the kid will be great in a year or two.  Those numbers are realistic I'm just not one of those fans who is going to predict we forget about Ells just yet.

    [/QUOTE]

    fair enough, and i don't think JBJ is going to replace else offensively.  But I think he will be good enough, and for your first year thats pretty darn good.

    And in the end it's the sum of the team as a whole, perhaps we are stronger in other areas next year.

    But either way we break it down......2013 is a tough act to follow. 

    [/QUOTE]

    With a couple more solid additions we could be right back in it.  I just think as of today we have lost too much depth if Drew and Ells leave without backup at both positions.  I'm fine with allowing the kids to show what they have as long as we pull the trigger quick enough on poor performances to stay in the race all season.

    We did it last year when players struggled but will need to go outside the farm for help this season in my opinion.  I think these young players and our team needs one big (Papi centerpiece) for the future.  He is the one guy our players look up to for big/consistent numbers.  If he goes down or begins to decline it will really hurt. 

    I think only then our FO may realize whats really missing.

    [/QUOTE]

    Like I said last year is a tough show to follow, we definitely have holes....but we had holes last year as well.  I think we are in it next year too, especially with two wild cards.

    I agree we need depth, unfortunately it's either go out and buy a starter or go with our youth, because back up are back ups for a reason.

    I expect our rookies to go through some adversity, but I think there is a decent chance of Bogaerts adding a lot more production than Drew did, and that could make up for what we lose in CF.  

    I also think this year and next were kinda bridge years in a sense to this huge wave of talent we have in the minors.  This comes without saying some will bust, some will be traded etc etc and that's a whole other conversation....but we won a WS in one of those years.  When you do that....your organization is doing something right.

    What made this past year so special was how low expectations were coming into the season.  I think we all understand that even with a great team you can't win it every year......but hey then again how sweet would it be to win back to back WS????

    [/QUOTE]

        Back to back WS wins would be great. Not easy but within reach. Your point earlier about JBJ in the lead off spot is where I would like to see him. He has shown some plate patience and that's a good starting point. Having the same guy lead off every game is a plus. Having won the WS last year my hope is they continue to develop their own talent and if they do you can expect to see a competitive team for years to come.

    [/QUOTE]

    Probably not a great idea leading off JBJ unless he really proves himself.  He had a lot of work to do at the plate from what I saw last season.  He didn't show me anywhere near the plate discipline Bogy did.

    [/QUOTE]

    right off the bat, no way, I agree that's in no way an option.  But I think his offensive ceiling is a top of the order guy, perhaps he reaches that level by seasons end in 2014 or maybe he is our starting day #1 #2 guy in 2016.  But for now, we will stick him #8 #9 and take what we can get, and I suspect (and hope) that by august he could either be moved up, or providing above average offense for a bottom of the order hitter. 

     
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    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to Bigpapa1977's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    These are the 2014 Sox outfielders:

    Nava

    Bradley, Jr.

    Victorino

    Gomes

    Carp

     

    Outside of Victorino, there is no speed and none of the other options are plus defenders.

     

    I disagree, JBJ is one of the best fielders you will ever see. Day one. He may even get better over time.




    What?  Best fielders you will ever see?  That must be hyperbole on your part Moon.  I don't think so and he has very little speed.  Granted it is a small sample size, but he didn't really impress me in 2013 and the stats back up my claim:

     

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=bradle000jac

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=12984&position=OF

     

    I think that you are over-rating him as a fielder and he better hit in 2014, or the Sox will find someone else.  I would argue that they should have that guy on the roster at the beginning of 2014 and ready to go.

    I may be wrong and we shall see.  I think that Ben will acquire someone before the Super Bowl who fills that role.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    If Middy comes through and Bogy can play a decent SS it will make the Iggy trade look a lot better.  If Middy had come through last season and Clay didn't crumble again Iggy would have never been traded.  It's a tough call with Middy because Checchini may end up being a better hitter but isn't a very good defender at this point.  Bogy may end being our long term 3B at some point.

     
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    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
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    [/QUOTE]

    OFFENSIVELY ... My prediction for JBJ at best will be 257/325/395 with maybe a.640 to .720 OPS.  Anything higher would be a plus because he hasn't shown us much of anything other than in ST against rusty/scrub pitching.  No way on earth this kid sees a .374 OBP unless he is dreaming about Pede or Papi.

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, JBJ has shown you his ability since his SEC college days[.955 OPS]. His entire minor league career[.876 OPS]. His 2013 spring training[1.120 OPS]. Also his last 59 AB's this season[.755 OPS]. What you are basing your concerns about are his first 39 AB's of his big league career[.395 OPS]. Basically his first 12 games. I recommend you don't.

    And a OB% of .374? His college[.425] and minors[.404] and spring[.507] say he could get close.

     
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    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to Bigpapa1977's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Outside of Victorino, there is no speed and none of the other options are plus defenders.

    [/QUOTE]

    The Brewers and Royals finished 1-3 in steals well ahead of 4th place. And the Tigers and Cardinals finished dead last in steals. Steals are not that important.

     
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    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    The pitching staff looks better on paper:

    1) A full season of Buch

    2) A full season of Peavy

    3) Full seasons from Workman and Britton

    4) Full seasons from Morales and Miller

    5) Full season of Uehara as the closer

    6) No Hanrahan, Bailey or Aceves as closers and whatever

    7) Add Mujica

    8) Add Badenhop

    9) Several good prospects banging on the door:

            Webster, de la Rosa, Ranaudo, Barnes, Hinojosa & maybe even Owens

     

    Again, 100% health is not going to happen, but with the depth of this team, I think we can handle injuries better than almost every other MLB team.

    [/QUOTE]

    Good job pounding home how strong and deep the pitching staff looks.

     
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    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    These are the 2014 Sox outfielders:

    Nava

    Bradley, Jr.

    Victorino

    Gomes

    Carp

     

    Outside of Victorino, there is no speed and none of the other options are plus defenders.

     

    I disagree, JBJ is one of the best fielders you will ever see. Day one. He may even get better over time.

     




    What?  Best fielders you will ever see?  That must be hyperbole on your part Moon.  I don't think so and he has very little speed.  Granted it is a small sample size, but he didn't really impress me in 2013 and the stats back up my claim:

     

     

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=bradle000jac

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=12984&position=OF

     

    I think that you are over-rating him as a fielder and he better hit in 2014, or the Sox will find someone else. \

     

    I have advocated trading for a guy like Ruggiano to compliment JBJ if he struggles vs LHPs or overall.

    On his defense, okay, maybe I was a bit hyperbolic, but the guy who said he was not a "plus defender" was more hyperbolic than I.

    JBJ did not play enough in CF in 2013 to get a good idea of his defense by stats.

    I prefer to believe the scouts and experts:

    soxprospect.com:

    Polished defensively. Projects to stick in center field. Plus-plus defender. Displays strong natural instincts. Gets excellent reads and jumps on balls hit out his way. Plus arm. Outstanding baseball makeup and high baseball IQ. Projects as an above-average regular on a first-division team.

     

    Chris Mellen-

    Defense: Bradley plays an outstanding center field. With excellent instincts, sound judgment, and crisp routes, he glides after balls hit out his way. Despite not possessing elite speed Bradley has above-average range in center, capable of covering a lot of ground into both gaps. He showed off his range on multiple occasions during my chance to scout him with Salem. What jumps out when watching him hunt down fly balls is the ease he shows in tracking them and how he gets very quick reads at the crack of the bat. He seems to move at the first instant of contact. Bradley made three running plays on deep drives into the gap that looked easy, despite the degree of difficulty. He also knows when he has to turn on his speed to close in on the ball and when to choke it down to make sure he is in the proper position to make the play. Bradley rarely looks pushed when tracking fly balls and is very polished overall defensively. He grades as a well-above average defender. While Bradley was not challenged to make any throws during my look in Salem, he showed off his arm during a follow-up chance after his promotion to Double-A. First positioning himself well to get his weight behind the ball on a deep fly ball to dead center, Bradley unleashed a throw with his heels up against the warning track on the fly to third base. The throw was a bit off target, but the arm strength was impressive. His arm grades as plus-to-better and should allow him to consistently challenge runners trying to take an extra base or cut down runners looking to score.

    Bret Sayre:

    Right now, his defense is the most advanced part of his game. A natural center fielder, Bradley displays a high level of grace and fluidity when manning his position. His instincts allow him to move with the crack of the bat, giving him above-average-to-better range despite only average speed. Bradley hunts down balls in the outfield, making difficult plays look easy and hauling in chances that most outfielders don’t. His well-above-average defense is capped off by a plus arm, making him one of the top, if not the top, overall outfield defenders I’ve seen in the last handful of seasons in the minors.

     

    Gabriel Ynoa:

    Outstanding defender. Incredible instincts. Gets great jumps and takes impeccable routes to the ball. Defense is plus-plus without plus speed. Can really go get it in both gaps. Goes back and comes in equally well. Truly outstanding defender that can win Gold Gloves. Grade – 70/70

     

    John Sickels:

    On defense, he is an excellent and occasionally brilliant defender in center field, due to his tremendous instincts and ability to track the ball. His arm has above-average strength and accuracy, and many scouts feel he could win Gold Gloves. His glove alone would make him an interesting prospect, but Bradley adds a potent bat to the mix... 

     

    If JBJ is not a plus defender, it's not just me being hyperbolic. If he ends up not being great, then we all will be wrong.

     
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    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    The pitching staff looks better on paper:

    1) A full season of Buch

    2) A full season of Peavy

    3) Full seasons from Workman and Britton

    4) Full seasons from Morales and Miller

    5) Full season of Uehara as the closer

    6) No Hanrahan, Bailey or Aceves as closers and whatever

    7) Add Mujica

    8) Add Badenhop

    9) Several good prospects banging on the door:

            Webster, de la Rosa, Ranaudo, Barnes, Hinojosa & maybe even Owens

     

    Again, 100% health is not going to happen, but with the depth of this team, I think we can handle injuries better than almost every other MLB team.

    [/QUOTE]

    Good job pounding home how strong and deep the pitching staff looks.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks. I am really liking this staff, and maybe AJ P as our new catcher can get even more out of them.

     
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    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to royf19's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    There are too many who have the attitude of the grass is greener, which leads to threads for the Sox trading all their top prospects for someone else's players.

    But there is no need to to pull off a blockbuster.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree. Last off season we needed to add to the roster and change the clubhouse. This off season should be more about adding to the team wisely. There is a chance we are building a dynasty here. Calm frugal patience.

    People need to remember, we didn't just win the World Series, but the Red Sox had the best record, the best run differential and kinda won pretty easy in the playoffs. We weren't lucky. Even if the loss of one player hurts us[Ellsbury] we were extremely strong last year. Pitching wins. And everybody has flaws. And only one team next year in the East scares me, Tampa Bay. We should be the favorites to win it all as of now.

    The time for a blockbuster "might" be in July or next off season. Or maybe not even then.

     
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    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    I agree. Last off season we needed to add to the roster and change the clubhouse. This off season should be more about adding to the team wisely. There is a chance we are building a dynasty here. Calm frugal patience.

    People need to remember, we didn't just win the World Series, but the Red Sox had the best record, the best run differential and kinda won pretty easy in the playoffs. We weren't lucky. Even if the loss of one player hurts us[Ellsbury] we were extremely strong last year. Pitching wins. And everybody has flaws. And only one team next year in the East scares me, Tampa Bay. We should be the favorites to win it all as of now.

    The time for a blockbuster "might" be in July or next off season. Or maybe not even then.

    [/QUOTE]

    Dude... the only series that was easy was the Tampa series and that was a bit surprise.  If the starters didn't get run down by the playoffs, they would have given us a serious run for our money.

    All games against Detroit were 1 run games except for game 4 and 6.  We got so shut down by their starters in the first three games that it seemed impossible to win... they set strike out records against us in that series and I hardly think that was easy.  Facing Verlander, Sherzer and Sanchez twice each is so far from easy man.  Good thing their bullpen sucked or we would have probably lost.

    We were down 2 games to 1 before we won 3 in a row in the World Series.  Their bullpen shut us down and they got great starting pitching besides game 1.  That was hardly an easy series either and there was real fear that we could lose after being down 2-1.  That kid Waca was money and shut us down game 2 with the bullpen as well.

     
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    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:

    I agree. Last off season we needed to add to the roster and change the clubhouse. This off season should be more about adding to the team wisely. There is a chance we are building a dynasty here. Calm frugal patience.

    People need to remember, we didn't just win the World Series, but the Red Sox had the best record, the best run differential and kinda won pretty easy in the playoffs. We weren't lucky. Even if the loss of one player hurts us[Ellsbury] we were extremely strong last year. Pitching wins. And everybody has flaws. And only one team next year in the East scares me, Tampa Bay. We should be the favorites to win it all as of now.

    The time for a blockbuster "might" be in July or next off season. Or maybe not even then.



    Dude... the only series that was easy was the Tampa series and that was a bit surprise.  If the starters didn't get run down by the playoffs, they would have given us a serious run for our money.

    All games against Detroit were 1 run games except for game 4 and 6.  We got so shut down by their starters in the first three games that it seemed impossible to win... they set strike out records against us in that series and I hardly think that was easy.  Facing Verlander, Sherzer and Sanchez twice each is so far from easy man.  Good thing their bullpen sucked or we would have probably lost.

    We were down 2 games to 1 before we won 3 in a row in the World Series.  Their bullpen shut us down and they got great starting pitching besides game 1.  That was hardly an easy series either and there was real fear that we could lose after being down 2-1.  That kid Waca was money and shut us down game 2 with the bullpen as well.

    [/QUOTE]


    We went 11-5. Out scored our opponents 72-44. Never went to a do or die game. And could have easily swept both Tampa and St. Louis if not for Koji giving up a Loboton HR in the 9th and two bad defensive plays in the late innings costing us to lose all of the games we lost.

    I guess pretty easy is a subjective word.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    We weren't favorites to win in Vegas after the 2013 regular season.

    We are not favorites now.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree. Last off season we needed to add to the roster and change the clubhouse. This off season should be more about adding to the team wisely. There is a chance we are building a dynasty here. Calm frugal patience.

    People need to remember, we didn't just win the World Series, but the Red Sox had the best record, the best run differential and kinda won pretty easy in the playoffs. We weren't lucky. Even if the loss of one player hurts us[Ellsbury] we were extremely strong last year. Pitching wins. And everybody has flaws. And only one team next year in the East scares me, Tampa Bay. We should be the favorites to win it all as of now.

    The time for a blockbuster "might" be in July or next off season. Or maybe not even then.

    [/QUOTE]

    Dude... the only series that was easy was the Tampa series and that was a bit surprise.  If the starters didn't get run down by the playoffs, they would have given us a serious run for our money.

    All games against Detroit were 1 run games except for game 4 and 6.  We got so shut down by their starters in the first three games that it seemed impossible to win... they set strike out records against us in that series and I hardly think that was easy.  Facing Verlander, Sherzer and Sanchez twice each is so far from easy man.  Good thing their bullpen sucked or we would have probably lost.

    We were down 2 games to 1 before we won 3 in a row in the World Series.  Their bullpen shut us down and they got great starting pitching besides game 1.  That was hardly an easy series either and there was real fear that we could lose after being down 2-1.  That kid Waca was money and shut us down game 2 with the bullpen as well.

    [/QUOTE]

    We were just toying with them. The Sox wanted to make the other teams think they had a chance then ... zoink, it was over.InnocentTongue OutCool

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    10/31/13

     

    Los Angeles Dodgers 5-1

    Detroit Tigers 8-1

    Washington Nationals 9-1

    St. Louis Cardinals 10-1

    Boston Red Sox 12-1

    Cincinnati Reds 15-1

    Los Angeles Angels 15-1

    Oakland Athletics 15-1

    New York Yankees 16-1

    Texas Rangers 16-1

    Atlanta Braves 17-1

    San Francisco Giants 22-1

    Pittsburgh Pirates 25-1

    Baltimore Orioles 28-1

    Cleveland Indians 28-1

    Tampa Bay Rays 29-1

    Kansas City Royals 35-1

    Chicago White Sox 40-1

    Philadelphia Phillies 40-1

    Arizona Diamondbacks 45-1

    Toronto Blue Jays 45-1

    Chicago Cubs 60-1

    Seattle Mariners 65-1

    Colorado Rockies 70-1

    San Diego Padres 70-1

    Milwaukee Brewers 75-1

    New York Mets 115-1

    Miami Marlins 125-1

    Minnesota Twins 125-1

     

    Houston Astros 250-1

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    12/6/13

    LAD  5/1

    Detroit  8/1

    Wsh   8/1

    STL 10/1

    BOS 12/1

    Cincy 14/1

    Tex     14/1

    LAA    14/1

    Oak 14/1

    NYY    16/1

    ATL 16/1

    TBR  18/1

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    12/6/13

    LAD  5/1

    Detroit  8/1

    Wsh   8/1

    STL 10/1

    BOS 12/1

    Cincy 14/1

    Tex     14/1

    LAA    14/1

    Oak 14/1

    NYY    16/1

    ATL 16/1

    TBR  18/1

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Do you agree with those numbers? The idea that L.A. has better then double the chance of winning then the Red Sox and Washington is 33% more likely is rediculous. I wish I was a betting man.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to royf19's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree. Last off season we needed to add to the roster and change the clubhouse. This off season should be more about adding to the team wisely. There is a chance we are building a dynasty here. Calm frugal patience.

    People need to remember, we didn't just win the World Series, but the Red Sox had the best record, the best run differential and kinda won pretty easy in the playoffs. We weren't lucky. Even if the loss of one player hurts us[Ellsbury] we were extremely strong last year. Pitching wins. And everybody has flaws. And only one team next year in the East scares me, Tampa Bay. We should be the favorites to win it all as of now.

    The time for a blockbuster "might" be in July or next off season. Or maybe not even then.

    [/QUOTE]

    Dude... the only series that was easy was the Tampa series and that was a bit surprise.  If the starters didn't get run down by the playoffs, they would have given us a serious run for our money.

    All games against Detroit were 1 run games except for game 4 and 6.  We got so shut down by their starters in the first three games that it seemed impossible to win... they set strike out records against us in that series and I hardly think that was easy.  Facing Verlander, Sherzer and Sanchez twice each is so far from easy man.  Good thing their bullpen sucked or we would have probably lost.

    We were down 2 games to 1 before we won 3 in a row in the World Series.  Their bullpen shut us down and they got great starting pitching besides game 1.  That was hardly an easy series either and there was real fear that we could lose after being down 2-1.  That kid Waca was money and shut us down game 2 with the bullpen as well.

    [/QUOTE]

    We were just toying with them. The Sox wanted to make the other teams think they had a chance then ... zoink, it was over.InnocentTongue OutCool

    [/QUOTE]

    The ALCS could have gone either way and we made the Cardinal pitchers look much better than they were.  My guess is Whaca and the guys won't have the same success this season.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    12/6/13

    LAD  5/1

    Detroit  8/1

    Wsh   8/1

    STL 10/1

    BOS 12/1

    Cincy 14/1

    Tex     14/1

    LAA    14/1

    Oak 14/1

    NYY    16/1

    ATL 16/1

    TBR  18/1

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Do you agree with those numbers? The idea that L.A. has better then double the chance of winning then the Red Sox and Washington is 33% more likely is rediculous. I wish I was a betting man.

    [/QUOTE]

    These odds are based on what people are betting on. If more people are betting on the Dodgers, their line get's changed.

    If I had to bet even money: I'd take the Dodger's chances and maybe Detroit, but us over Wash & STL. The Yanks might be tied witah us.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My biggest concern by far is CF:  JBJ is far from a sure thing in 2014, or ever really.   SS worries me slightly, particularly as we have no one that can play the position should Bogaerts not pan out (unlikely, IMO) or get injured.  And 3B is a concern too:  which Midds is going to show up?

    This is the defending champions, not some small-market team....3 unproven youngsters in key positions......

    [/QUOTE]


    Why are people SOOO down on JBJ???

    Last year was only his second full season of professional baseball, starting in the majors with only ONE!!! full season of minor league ball is almost unheard of.  I'm pretty confident that if you took any top player in the game today and put them into the majors a few years earlier they would have struggled just as much.

    in 2012 JBJ spent more time in A than in AA.  He was rushed to the majors.

    Most would have said that Pawtucket would have been an aggressive assignment for him.  Still he put up a .275/.374/.469 line with a .842 OPS during an aggressive assignment in Pawtucket.  

    To put things into perspective if JBJ had started the year in Pawtucket instead of Boston and put up those numbers most scouts and talent evaluaters would have been very impressed given his experience....but because a kid gets rushed, gets a short look, and struggles, all of a sudden everyone is down on him.

    To put things even further into perspective think of it like this; JBJ was ranked 31st in all of baseball by baseball america PRE 2013.

    Then, even with his early season fumbles in Boston he jumped up the list to #21 in BA's mid season top 50.

    Scouts were actually MORE impressed with him this year, because realitively speaking he made huge strides at advanced levels of the majors, moving up the ladder at a fast pace.

    The kid is still young, and has showed a LOT of progress every year and the ability to make adjustments.

    if you want to argue that he is not 100% ready that is fine, but I would bet large sums of money his stats in Boston will be nowhere as bad as they were this year. We should expect to see some upward mobility in his production.  

    I would also be willing to bet that JBJ will put up a similar line of .275/.374/.469 in a full season in 2014, perhaps not as good as that but I think he will be closer to those numbers than his numbers in Boston in 2013.  All of this wrapped up in a defensive package that should be an upgrade over Ellsbury.

    .......I'm not worried about JBJ at all, as a matter of fact I'm looking forward to it. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I specifically wrote "sure thing".  He's not at this point, IMO.  I'm not down on him....but seems a risk for the defending champs to take.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My biggest concern by far is CF:  JBJ is far from a sure thing in 2014, or ever really.   SS worries me slightly, particularly as we have no one that can play the position should Bogaerts not pan out (unlikely, IMO) or get injured.  And 3B is a concern too:  which Midds is going to show up?

    This is the defending champions, not some small-market team....3 unproven youngsters in key positions......

    [/QUOTE]


    Why are people SOOO down on JBJ???

    Last year was only his second full season of professional baseball, starting in the majors with only ONE!!! full season of minor league ball is almost unheard of.  I'm pretty confident that if you took any top player in the game today and put them into the majors a few years earlier they would have struggled just as much.

    in 2012 JBJ spent more time in A than in AA.  He was rushed to the majors.

    Most would have said that Pawtucket would have been an aggressive assignment for him.  Still he put up a .275/.374/.469 line with a .842 OPS during an aggressive assignment in Pawtucket.  

    To put things into perspective if JBJ had started the year in Pawtucket instead of Boston and put up those numbers most scouts and talent evaluaters would have been very impressed given his experience....but because a kid gets rushed, gets a short look, and struggles, all of a sudden everyone is down on him.

    To put things even further into perspective think of it like this; JBJ was ranked 31st in all of baseball by baseball america PRE 2013.

    Then, even with his early season fumbles in Boston he jumped up the list to #21 in BA's mid season top 50.

    Scouts were actually MORE impressed with him this year, because realitively speaking he made huge strides at advanced levels of the majors, moving up the ladder at a fast pace.

    The kid is still young, and has showed a LOT of progress every year and the ability to make adjustments.

    if you want to argue that he is not 100% ready that is fine, but I would bet large sums of money his stats in Boston will be nowhere as bad as they were this year. We should expect to see some upward mobility in his production.  

    I would also be willing to bet that JBJ will put up a similar line of .275/.374/.469 in a full season in 2014, perhaps not as good as that but I think he will be closer to those numbers than his numbers in Boston in 2013.  All of this wrapped up in a defensive package that should be an upgrade over Ellsbury.

    .......I'm not worried about JBJ at all, as a matter of fact I'm looking forward to it. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I specifically wrote "sure thing".  He's not at this point, IMO.  I'm not down on him....but seems a risk for the defending champs to take.

    [/QUOTE]

    yes it is a risk, of course it is, that I agree with.  But taking on a bunch of salary and building your team is a risk as well.  I expect Boston to spend money, stay on the cap, and balance their team through free agency and building from within. To me it seems appropriate to bet on your top prospects and throw money into where your organization has no depth.

    If there was this years equivalent of Stephen Drew, or Adrian Beltre in CF.....I would be open to bringing a guy like that in, otherwise I don't think we need anything more than a RHH outfielder with speed who can pinch run and back Bradley up and possibly replace him vs. tough lefties.....of course, who is that guy?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    Get the Mandela sign language guy to be the new third base coach.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Get the Mandela sign language guy to be the new third base coach.

    [/QUOTE]


    LOL gale

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Get the Mandela sign language guy to be the new third base coach.

    [/QUOTE]


    LOL gale

    [/QUOTE]

    Pedroia: " Was that the hit and run sign? " Victorino: " Beats me."  Pedroia: " Bring back Butterfield. " 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    So, is this the 2014 Opening Day line-up and roster?

        vs RHP      vs LHP

    1)      Victorino CF

    2)      Pedroia   2B

    3)       Ortiz   DH

    4)       Napoli 1B

    5) Nava LF  Gomes LF

    6)    Middlebrooks 3B

    7)      Bogaerts SS

    8)    Pierzynski C

    9)       Bradley

    C- Ross, 1B/OF Carp, IF Holt

    SP 1  Lester

    SP 2  Buchholz

    SP 3  Lackey

    SP 4  Peavy

    SP 5  Doubront

    SP/LR Dempster

    LR/SP Morales

    RP  Miller

    RP  Badenhop

    RP  Breslow

    RP  Tazawa

    RP/C Mujica

    Closer Uehara

     

    AAA or AA players that could see ML action in 2014-

    SP/RP: Workman, Britton, Webster, Wright, Ranaudo, Barnes, Hinojosa, Owens

    RP: Villareal, de la Rosa, A Wilson, C Martin, C Hernandez, T Layne, N. Ramirez

    C: Lavarnway, Butler, Vazquez

    1B: Snyder (3B)

    3B: Cecchini

    Middle IF: Meneses, McCoy, Roof, Marrero, Betts 

    LF: Hassan, Linares

    CF: Castellanos

    RF: Brentz (LF)

     

     
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