I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    More 2014 projection stuff. Fangraphs has the red Sox projected to win the most games next year. Tigers and Cardinals are a couple of games back. Dodgers and Braves are next, but 5 games behind the Red Sox. Also, the sox have the best record inspite of being in the best division. Yankees come in ranked 20th...

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=Standings

     

    Similarly, they have a WAR projection for each team where the Red Sox are easily 1st......

     

    TeamBatPitWAR Red Sox 26.4 21.7 48.1 Tigers 23.8 20.8 44.6 Angels 30.7 10.6 41.3 Rangers 20.7 19.9 40.7 Athletics 27.2 13.5 40.6 Royals 24.3 16.3 40.6 Cardinals 26.9 13.7 40.6 Rays 26.3 13.9 40.2 Dodgers 23.9 15.9 39.8 Blue Jays 24.9 14.9 39.8 Indians 26.1 13.2 39.2 Rockies 21.3 17.7 39.0 Mariners 21.2 16.1 37.3 Giants 28.0 9.3 37.3 Diamondbacks 24.5 12.8 37.2 Braves 24.0 13.3 37.2 Nationals 20.2 16.3 36.5 Yankees 18.6 17.8 36.4 Pirates 24.8 11.4 36.3 Orioles 21.9 13.0 34.9 Padres 20.2 10.9 31.1 Reds 17.5 12.8 30.4 Mets 20.9 8.9 29.7 Twins 16.6 12.2 28.9 Astros 19.5 8.5 28.0 Brewers 19.1 8.9 28.0 Cubs 16.0 11.9 27.8 Phillies 15.2 12.6 27.8 White Sox 12.7 14.6 27.3 Marlins8.8 10.3 19.1

     

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=ALL&teamid=1

     

     

     

    I feel pretty confident about next season. The betters of America are not too bright.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    he's 90% there but you don't get ANY points until you cross the goal line

    he still has work to do

    he needs to figure out a way to dump Dempster and then determine who his 5 opening day starters are for this year and beyond and act accordingly

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    Wrong, a Good GM always works, thinks, evaluates. Especially in Off-Season.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    he's 90% there but you don't get ANY points until you cross the goal line

    he still has work to do

    he needs to figure out a way to dump Dempster and then determine who his 5 opening day starters are for this year and beyond and act accordingly



    There will be only one opening day starter.

    Beyond this year, my guess is Lester will be extended, Buch will be around, and Lackey has 2015 still on the books. Doubront could easily be a starter for us for many years, and until Ben discovers if any of our top pitching prospects are good enough to be a part of a winning rotation, I seriously doubt he does anything drastic in this area. The sheer quantity of quality SP prospects makes me believe at least 1 or 2 will become plus starters and maybe another 1 or 1 will become good middle to back-end of the rotation starters.

    Owens, Ranaudo, Barnes

    Webster, Workman, Britton, de la Rosa, Wright, Hinojosa

    Ball, Johnson, Stankiewicz

    Luis Diaz, Buttrey, & Callahan

    If they all fizzle, Ben will have to go out and find one somehow & somewhere.

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    he's 90% there but you don't get ANY points until you cross the goal line

    he still has work to do

    he needs to figure out a way to dump Dempster and then determine who his 5 opening day starters are for this year and beyond and act accordingly




     

    Why does he have to dump Dempster?   For a man who rails against the health of Buchholz, you seem oddly committed to getting rid of his replacement as well.

     

    The Sox could easily hold on to Dempster into ST just in case of injuries...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    he's 90% there but you don't get ANY points until you cross the goal line

    he still has work to do

    he needs to figure out a way to dump Dempster and then determine who his 5 opening day starters are for this year and beyond and act accordingly




     

    Why does he have to dump Dempster?   For a man who rails against the health of Buchholz, you seem oddly committed to getting rid of his replacement as well.

     

    The Sox could easily hold on to Dempster into ST just in case of injuries...



    Good post.

    Players get paid to do different things.  Papi doesn't get paid to hit for average, he gets paid to hit for power.  Ellsbury didn't get paid to hit HR's, he got paid to play solid D, get on base and steal bases.  Pedey gets paid to play a solid 2B and hit for average.  Lester gets paid to be a TOR starter.

    Dempster gets paid to be a #5 starter and eat innings.  He'll give you ~5 innings and keep the Sox in the game, which is the goal of a #5 starter.  Yeah, he gets too much money to do it but it's not my money AND I'd rather pay him too much than find someone else, pay him less and learn that he can't do what Dempster does.

    Dempsters .457 ERA is 3 runs through five or six innings - which is about what Dempster is good for - and the team is still in the game.  I'm ok with that from my #5 guy. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    he's 90% there but you don't get ANY points until you cross the goal line

    he still has work to do

    he needs to figure out a way to dump Dempster and then determine who his 5 opening day starters are for this year and beyond and act accordingly

     




     

     

    Why does he have to dump Dempster?   For a man who rails against the health of Buchholz, you seem oddly committed to getting rid of his replacement as well.

     

    The Sox could easily hold on to Dempster into ST just in case of injuries...



    Good post.

    Players get paid to do different things.  Papi doesn't get paid to hit for average, he gets paid to hit for power.  Ellsbury didn't get paid to hit HR's, he got paid to play solid D, get on base and steal bases.  Pedey gets paid to play a solid 2B and hit for average.  Lester gets paid to be a TOR starter.

    Dempster gets paid to be a #5 starter and eat innings.  He'll give you ~5 innings and keep the Sox in the game, which is the goal of a #5 starter.  Yeah, he gets too much money to do it but it's not my money AND I'd rather pay him too much than find someone else, pay him less and learn that he can't do what Dempster does.

    Dempsters .457 ERA is 3 runs through five or six innings - which is about what Dempster is good for - and the team is still in the game.  I'm ok with that from my #5 guy. 



    It's not worth $13M. Papi's HRs are worth $15M. Pedey's D and OBP is worth what he gets paid. Ellsbury earned his contract. Dempster did not.

    We can get 3 ER in 6 IP from Morales, Workman, Britton, Webster, Wright, Ranaudo, Barnes, Hinojosa or Owens. It might take some trial and error to find which one of these guys can give us that, and I realize a few "errors" could mean the difference between making the playoffs or not, but it is also a gamble to expect dempster will even be as "good" as 2013. 

    Plus, as our 6th starter, he may not even get a chance to give us 3 in 6.

    The other part of the equation is this: by dumping Dempster's salary, we can have the budget flexibility to address higher need areas either now or at the deadline or both.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    The other part of the equation is this: by dumping Dempster's salary, we can have the budget flexibility to address higher need areas either now or at the deadline or both.



    Dumping Dempster and even guys like Carp is a must in my opinion moon.  This team (as we stand today) won't be competing for another championship unless Bogy, JBJ and Middy pull off the biggest miracle in baseball and our big three stay off the DL.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    Oh Sox fans.

     

    You foll follow the minors and advocate protecting the minors with religious fervor, and overvalue everyone to come up thru the system.

    Until they have to play.  And then they are a bunch of high risk platoon pplayers who are never ready enough...

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    Oh Sox fans.

     

    You foll follow the minors and advocate protecting the minors with religious fervor, and overvalue everyone to come up thru the system.

    Until they have to play.  And then they are a bunch of high risk platoon pplayers who are never ready enough...

     



     

    Thats nonsense notin and you know it.  I praised the Ellsbury for Crisp move, loved Pap, Pedroia, Youk, Lester, Bogy and many others.  The only players we have ever brought up with the intension of starting I didn't think were ready were ...

    #1 Clay, despite the no hitter and I was correct

    #2 Doubront, which he wasn't until this past season when he finally began to mature

    #3 Iggy, who fans were screaming to get into the lineup two years before he was ready.

    #4 JBJ, which is for the same reason, he simply hasn't proved he can hit big league pitching other than in ST

    I have always loved bringing up our youngsters and building the farm.  What I don't like are (bandwagon) fans who jump all over a few good AB's or pitching outings in the minors, then proclaim them as major league ready all stars who can replace our veterans right away.  I also never agreed with fans who tried to make Salty look better than he actually was for years.

    The only player I have been wrong about so far is Lav who we never gave a real opportunity to at the catchers position.  I hope at this point we at least trade him to a team that might.  Lastly, I already said I was fine with starting JBJ, Middy and Bogy all together but don't necessarily expect a PS spot for a year or two without further upgrades.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    The other part of the equation is this: by dumping Dempster's salary, we can have the budget flexibility to address higher need areas either now or at the deadline or both.



    Dumping Dempster and even guys like Carp is a must in my opinion moon.  This team (as we stand today) won't be competing for another championship unless Bogy, JBJ and Middy pull off the biggest miracle in baseball and our big three stay off the DL.



    Geez, talk about overstatements. Why is dumping Carp a MUST?

    Middlebrooks has been good in the majors more than he's been bad,  so why is it hard to think he couldn't hit .250 or better with 25 HRs over a full season?

    Bradley had a taste of the majors this year, so why would it be some sort of miracle for him to come in and have a strong,  maybe even a rookie-of-the-year type of season? Same with Bogaerts?

    Why would all three having simply respectable seasons have to be "biggest miracle in baseball"?

    It's fine to have concerns with all three -- I do -- but blanket statements of not being able to compete is way off base. Haven't we learned anything from this last season? The consensus last year was that the Sox would be a mid-80s win team at best and look what happened. The Sox pulled it off not by guys having career years but simply staying healthy -- mostly -- and producing to the norm.

    We don't know what the norm would be for the three youngsters, but how are you going to know what they can do until you give them the chance.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    The other part of the equation is this: by dumping Dempster's salary, we can have the budget flexibility to address higher need areas either now or at the deadline or both.

     



    Dumping Dempster and even guys like Carp is a must in my opinion moon.  This team (as we stand today) won't be competing for another championship unless Bogy, JBJ and Middy pull off the biggest miracle in baseball and our big three stay off the DL.

     

     



    Geez, talk about overstatements. Why is dumping Carp a MUST?

     

    Middlebrooks has been good in the majors more than he's been bad,  so why is it hard to think he couldn't hit .250 or better with 25 HRs over a full season?

    Bradley had a taste of the majors this year, so why would it be some sort of miracle for him to come in and have a strong,  maybe even a rookie-of-the-year type of season? Same with Bogaerts?

    Why would all three having simply respectable seasons have to be "biggest miracle in baseball"?

    It's fine to have concerns with all three -- I do -- but blanket statements of not being able to compete is way off base. Haven't we learned anything from this last season? The consensus last year was that the Sox would be a mid-80s win team at best and look what happened. The Sox pulled it off not by guys having career years but simply staying healthy -- mostly -- and producing to the norm.

    We don't know what the norm would be for the three youngsters, but how are you going to know what they can do until you give them the chance.



    It's all about freeing up salary Roy and those are good places to start.  We still need Drew or other help at SS without taking yet another step backwards for a year or two after losing Ells.  We simply don't have the depth we had last season so just curious how would you personally choose to upgrade our team without going over the tax threshold too much?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

     

    The other part of the equation is this: by dumping Dempster's salary, we can have the budget flexibility to address higher need areas either now or at the deadline or both.

     



    Dumping Dempster and even guys like Carp is a must in my opinion moon.  This team (as we stand today) won't be competing for another championship unless Bogy, JBJ and Middy pull off the biggest miracle in baseball and our big three stay off the DL.

     

     



    Geez, talk about overstatements. Why is dumping Carp a MUST?

     

    Middlebrooks has been good in the majors more than he's been bad,  so why is it hard to think he couldn't hit .250 or better with 25 HRs over a full season?

    Bradley had a taste of the majors this year, so why would it be some sort of miracle for him to come in and have a strong,  maybe even a rookie-of-the-year type of season? Same with Bogaerts?

    Why would all three having simply respectable seasons have to be "biggest miracle in baseball"?

    It's fine to have concerns with all three -- I do -- but blanket statements of not being able to compete is way off base. Haven't we learned anything from this last season? The consensus last year was that the Sox would be a mid-80s win team at best and look what happened. The Sox pulled it off not by guys having career years but simply staying healthy -- mostly -- and producing to the norm.

    We don't know what the norm would be for the three youngsters, but how are you going to know what they can do until you give them the chance.

     



    It's all about freeing up salary Roy and those are good places to start.  We still need Drew or other help at SS without taking yet another step backwards for a year or two after losing Ells.  We simply don't have the depth we had last season so just curious how would you personally choose to upgrade our team without going over the tax threshold too much?

     



    Don't need Drew.

    Give the youngsters a chance. Yes, there might be growing pains with the youngsters, but who's to say that what Middlebrooks and Bradley went through this year weren't growing pains.

    Remember, the Sox were in first place throughout the first four months without a lot of production from the left side of the infield. So even starting Bogaerts and Middlebrooks the production on the left side could be better.

    And the Sox MUST dump Carp to free up salary? He made just over $500,000 last year and will likely make right around $1 million this year. That's hardly a crippling contract.

    I fully expect the Sox to trade one of the pitchers, but I wouldn't do that spring training in case there's an injury.

    As for depth, I'm not going to bring back Drew, which will block one of the youngsters, just to keep depth. I start the two youngsters on the left side and find a utility infielder to provide some depth. Cherington has been pretty good at finding the depth.

    There are no guarantees no matter what you do -- haven't we all learned that yet -- so with the upside the three youngsters have, I'd rather go that way than bring in aging veterans who might be on the downside. And going with the youngsters certainly will give the Sox even more salary flexibility.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    Dumping Dempster and even guys like Carp is a must in my opinion moon.  

    _______________________________________________

    Geez, talk about overstatements. Why is dumping Carp a MUST?

    _______________________________________________

    It's all about freeing up salary Roy and those are good places to start.

     

    Carp is not going to make much money in 2014. I'm noit saying we should not trade him, but it wouldn't be about freeing up budget space.

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    I agree.  So the Sox need to get a CF  and a SS to hedge their bets against Bradley (who could be hitting 8th or 9th) and Bogaerts struggling, but the Sox NEED to dump their best bench bat who provides protections j ncase Ortiz or Napoli go down...

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to notin's comment:

    I agree.  So the Sox need to get a CF  and a SS to hedge their bets against Bradley (who could be hitting 8th or 9th) and Bogaerts struggling, but the Sox NEED to dump their best bench bat who provides protections j ncase Ortiz or Napoli go down...



    Exactly. The Sox were able to move Victorino to CF and Nava to RF last year, so that might be an option again. But Cherington certainly should make sure the Sox have options in case any of the three young players really struggles, but the first plan should be giving all three the chance.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to notin's comment:

    I agree.  So the Sox need to get a CF  and a SS to hedge their bets against Bradley (who could be hitting 8th or 9th) and Bogaerts struggling, but the Sox NEED to dump their best bench bat who provides protections j ncase Ortiz or Napoli go down...



    ...not "Bogaerts struggling", it's Bogaerts defense or Middy struggling (Bogey to 3b).

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

    I agree.  So the Sox need to get a CF  and a SS to hedge their bets against Bradley (who could be hitting 8th or 9th) and Bogaerts struggling, but the Sox NEED to dump their best bench bat who provides protections j ncase Ortiz or Napoli go down...



    ...not "Bogaerts struggling", it's Bogaerts defense or Middy struggling (Bogey to 3b).



    Probably, but you never know. Actually, I'm fairly confident that Middlebrooks will be the least of the Sox's problems next year. He's been good much more than he's been bad in the seven-plus months he's been in the majors, but for some reason, fans want to focus on the two bad months and the postseason slump.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

    I agree.  So the Sox need to get a CF  and a SS to hedge their bets against Bradley (who could be hitting 8th or 9th) and Bogaerts struggling, but the Sox NEED to dump their best bench bat who provides protections j ncase Ortiz or Napoli go down...



    ...not "Bogaerts struggling", it's Bogaerts defense or Middy struggling (Bogey to 3b).




     

    Even then, Stephen Drew is really not a "Plan B" kind of guy.  If he comes in, one of those two goes to the bench or another team.

     

    The Sox will bring in some sort of utility infielder.  The reason the job is still open is that it is not exactly the highest priority.   When was the last time anyone said "This team is going nowhere.  They have a huge weakness at utility infielder"?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    Oh Sox fans.

     

    You foll follow the minors and advocate protecting the minors with religious fervor, and overvalue everyone to come up thru the system.

    Until they have to play.  And then they are a bunch of high risk platoon pplayers who are never ready enough...

     



     

    Thats nonsense notin and you know it.  I praised the Ellsbury for Crisp move, loved Pap, Pedroia, Youk, Lester, Bogy and many others.  The only players we have ever brought up with the intension of starting I didn't think were ready were ...

    #1 Clay, despite the no hitter and I was correct

    #2 Doubront, which he wasn't until this past season when he finally began to mature

    #3 Iggy, who fans were screaming to get into the lineup two years before he was ready.

    #4 JBJ, which is for the same reason, he simply hasn't proved he can hit big league pitching other than in ST

    I have always loved bringing up our youngsters and building the farm.  What I don't like are (bandwagon) fans who jump all over a few good AB's or pitching outings in the minors, then proclaim them as major league ready all stars who can replace our veterans right away.  I also never agreed with fans who tried to make Salty look better than he actually was for years.

    The only player I have been wrong about so far is Lav who we never gave a real opportunity to at the catchers position.  I hope at this point we at least trade him to a team that might.  Lastly, I already said I was fine with starting JBJ, Middy and Bogy all together but don't necessarily expect a PS spot for a year or two without further upgrades.

     




     

    It's not crap, and there are about 25 JBJ Weakness threadds to support my point.

     

    Even your defense about all the players whose promotion you supported is obvious.  Ellsbury, when he replaced Crisp.  Pedroia, when he replaced Loretta.  Youkilis, who replaced an aging and slowing Millar.  Iglesias, who was set to replace Aviles.

     

    It seems to me you only want rookies to get a chance when they are replacing the less impressive players on the team.  Do you form your opinion based on the rookie, or the outgoing veteran? 

     

    It's not a crime if you do, but it means you are evaluating the rest of the team and whether or not they can still survive, as opposed to anything about the actual prospect himself...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

    I agree.  So the Sox need to get a CF  and a SS to hedge their bets against Bradley (who could be hitting 8th or 9th) and Bogaerts struggling, but the Sox NEED to dump their best bench bat who provides protections j ncase Ortiz or Napoli go down...



    ...not "Bogaerts struggling", it's Bogaerts defense or Middy struggling (Bogey to 3b).



    Probably, but you never know. Actually, I'm fairly confident that Middlebrooks will be the least of the Sox's problems next year. He's been good much more than he's been bad in the seven-plus months he's been in the majors, but for some reason, fans want to focus on the two bad months and the postseason slump.

     



    No, we looked at his long minor league record.

    One could argue that some here are only focusing on 2 good months in 2012.

    I like Middy. I think he will do fine in 2014. I do not want us to sign Drew, but I do think we should get a better utility IF'er than Holt.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

    I agree.  So the Sox need to get a CF  and a SS to hedge their bets against Bradley (who could be hitting 8th or 9th) and Bogaerts struggling, but the Sox NEED to dump their best bench bat who provides protections j ncase Ortiz or Napoli go down...



    ...not "Bogaerts struggling", it's Bogaerts defense or Middy struggling (Bogey to 3b).



    Probably, but you never know. Actually, I'm fairly confident that Middlebrooks will be the least of the Sox's problems next year. He's been good much more than he's been bad in the seven-plus months he's been in the majors, but for some reason, fans want to focus on the two bad months and the postseason slump.

     



    No, we looked at his long minor league record.

    One could argue that some here are only focusing on 2 good months in 2012.

    I like Middy. I think he will do fine in 2014. I do not want us to sign Drew, but I do think we should get a better utility IF'er than Holt.



    He had three good months in 2012:
    May: 99 PA, 6 HR, 21 RBI, .316 BA
    June: 82 PA, 4 HR, 16 RBI, .288 BA
    July: 70 PA, 3 HR, 10 RBI, .294 BA

    Yes, his OPS went down each month: .922-.836-.785, but he still was very good those three months, and his average went back up in July.

    He batted .194 in 10 games in August, but if you combine that with the 18 games he played in July, it is the same as a full month and his numbers combined were 5 HR, 17 RBI, .260 BA -- still a good month.

    Then he closed 2013:
    August: 2 HR, 7 RBI, .322
    September: 6 HR, 17 RBI, .244.

    So that's why I always say five good months.

    As for the minors, I see a guy who progressively got better since his first year as a 19-year-old. His OPS and batting average and power all improved each year as he rose through the system from 2008 through 2011. The only blip was when he first moved up to Triple-A in 2011, but it was a small sample and then he came back strong to start 2012. So I don't know why looking at his minor league career should raise red flags.

    In fact, if you look at his minor league record, it should give you even more optimism. He struggled briefly when he first got to Triple A but then made adjustments, kept working and was better the next time through.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

    I agree.  So the Sox need to get a CF  and a SS to hedge their bets against Bradley (who could be hitting 8th or 9th) and Bogaerts struggling, but the Sox NEED to dump their best bench bat who provides protections j ncase Ortiz or Napoli go down...



    ...not "Bogaerts struggling", it's Bogaerts defense or Middy struggling (Bogey to 3b).



    Probably, but you never know. Actually, I'm fairly confident that Middlebrooks will be the least of the Sox's problems next year. He's been good much more than he's been bad in the seven-plus months he's been in the majors, but for some reason, fans want to focus on the two bad months and the postseason slump.

     



    No, we looked at his long minor league record.

    One could argue that some here are only focusing on 2 good months in 2012.

    I like Middy. I think he will do fine in 2014. I do not want us to sign Drew, but I do think we should get a better utility IF'er than Holt.



    He had three good months in 2012:
    May: 99 PA, 6 HR, 21 RBI, .316 BA
    June: 82 PA, 4 HR, 16 RBI, .288 BA
    July: 70 PA, 3 HR, 10 RBI, .294 BA

    Yes, his OPS went down each month: .922-.836-.785, but he still was very good those three months, and his average went back up in July.

    He batted .194 in 10 games in August, but if you combine that with the 18 games he played in July, it is the same as a full month and his numbers combined were 5 HR, 17 RBI, .260 BA -- still a good month.

    Then he closed 2013:
    August: 2 HR, 7 RBI, .322
    September: 6 HR, 17 RBI, .244.

    So that's why I always say five good months.

    As for the minors, I see a guy who progressively got better since his first year as a 19-year-old. His OPS and batting average and power all improved each year as he rose through the system from 2008 through 2011. The only blip was when he first moved up to Triple-A in 2011, but it was a small sample and then he came back strong to start 2012. So I don't know why looking at his minor league career should raise red flags.

    In fact, if you look at his minor league record, it should give you even more optimism. He struggled briefly when he first got to Triple A but then made adjustments, kept working and was better the next time through.



    I don't consider .785 very good, but it certainly is not bad.

    OK, 3 good months not 2.

    His sample size in AAA is not large enough to get any true reading, but overall his AAA OBP and OPS was worse than his AA numbers. His OBP, which is his biggest offensive weakness was also better in Salem and Greenville than Pawtucket.

    Since 2009, his OBP has gone like this:

    2009: .349 (A)

    2010: 331 (A+)

    2011: .328 (AA/AAA)

    2012: .333 (AAA) & .325 MLB

    2013: .327 (AAA) & .271 MLB

    I love Middy's power. I think he can improve on his OBP. He's only 25. I have not given up on him, but seeing him get demoted twice last season, including once in the playoffs for a rookie who wasn't even a 3Bman, makes me think we'd be wise to have a solid SS as our utility IF'er just in case Middy struggles again (Bogey would move to 3B), or if Bogey does.

    I am also concerned about Middy's 2013 fielding slump, and statements he made that concerned me about his self-confidence.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

    I agree.  So the Sox need to get a CF  and a SS to hedge their bets against Bradley (who could be hitting 8th or 9th) and Bogaerts struggling, but the Sox NEED to dump their best bench bat who provides protections j ncase Ortiz or Napoli go down...



    ...not "Bogaerts struggling", it's Bogaerts defense or Middy struggling (Bogey to 3b).



    Probably, but you never know. Actually, I'm fairly confident that Middlebrooks will be the least of the Sox's problems next year. He's been good much more than he's been bad in the seven-plus months he's been in the majors, but for some reason, fans want to focus on the two bad months and the postseason slump.

     



    No, we looked at his long minor league record.

    One could argue that some here are only focusing on 2 good months in 2012.

    I like Middy. I think he will do fine in 2014. I do not want us to sign Drew, but I do think we should get a better utility IF'er than Holt.



    He had three good months in 2012:
    May: 99 PA, 6 HR, 21 RBI, .316 BA
    June: 82 PA, 4 HR, 16 RBI, .288 BA
    July: 70 PA, 3 HR, 10 RBI, .294 BA

    Yes, his OPS went down each month: .922-.836-.785, but he still was very good those three months, and his average went back up in July.

    He batted .194 in 10 games in August, but if you combine that with the 18 games he played in July, it is the same as a full month and his numbers combined were 5 HR, 17 RBI, .260 BA -- still a good month.

    Then he closed 2013:
    August: 2 HR, 7 RBI, .322
    September: 6 HR, 17 RBI, .244.

    So that's why I always say five good months.

    As for the minors, I see a guy who progressively got better since his first year as a 19-year-old. His OPS and batting average and power all improved each year as he rose through the system from 2008 through 2011. The only blip was when he first moved up to Triple-A in 2011, but it was a small sample and then he came back strong to start 2012. So I don't know why looking at his minor league career should raise red flags.

    In fact, if you look at his minor league record, it should give you even more optimism. He struggled briefly when he first got to Triple A but then made adjustments, kept working and was better the next time through.



    I don't consider .785 very good, but it certainly is not bad.

    OK, 3 good months not 2.

    His sample size in AAA is not large enough to get any true reading, but overall his AAA OBP and OPS was worse than his AA numbers. His OBP, which is his biggest offensive weakness was also better in Salem and Greenville than Pawtucket.

    Since 2009, his OBP has gone like this:

    2009: .349 (A)

    2010: 331 (A+)

    2011: .328 (AA/AAA)

    2012: .333 (AAA) & .325 MLB

    2013: .327 (AAA) & .271 MLB

    I love Middy's power. I think he can improve on his OBP. He's only 25. I have not given up on him, but seeing him get demoted twice last season, including once in the playoffs for a rookie who wasn't even a 3Bman, makes me think we'd be wise to have a solid SS as our utility IF'er just in case Middy struggles again (Bogey would move to 3B), or if Bogey does.

    I am also concerned about Middy's 2013 fielding slump, and statements he made that concerned me about his self-confidence.

     



    Actually, I like what Middlebrooks has had to say. Yes, when he first went down it was a hard adjustment, which he admitted. But in everything he's said since the, I see a player who has learned a lot this year and is determined to be better and show he deserves to stay in the majors -- especially after the postseason.

    And more about his fielding -- I think in his case it seems to be that his batting woes translated into the field because he wasn't bad in the final two months. When he slumped at the plate in the postseason, it seemed to affect his fielding. The positive I saw in Middlebrooks in the field was the work he did with Lowell in the spring to work on his throwing and footwork appeared to pay dividends.

    As for the .785 OPS -- for a month of 18 games when he hits .294 and hits 3 HRs with 10 RBIs -- that's fine. From month to month, stats like that fluxuate. The trick is to not bottom out like he did the first two months this year. So his July -- even July-August combined for 28 games -- is an acceptable month.

    OBP -- sometimes we get too caught up in every single stat. Obviously it would be nice for Middlebrooks' OBP to go up. But I can live with him being in the .330 range if he's hitting .260 or better with the power and run production he can bring. Not every player is going to be great in all categories. His OBP might have gone down as he went through the minors but his power/slugging and OPS kept going up. That's an acceptable trade-off.

    Going forward, he doesn't have to be a great OBP guy as long as he's providing power and a strong BA. Obviously, you don't want a .227/.271/.425/.696 he had this year. But the .288/.325/509/.835 line he had last year in half a season -- if he does that over 150 games with 30 HR and 108 RBIs (the pace he was on) -- that's perfectly acceptable IMO.

    And it's a bit inaccurate to combine his entire AAA OPS show it overall going down to illustrate as some red flag. For a guy who kept improving through the minors, it's shouldn't be a big deal if he struggles early at the higher level when in his ensuing trek -- and bigger sample size -- he was lights out. Players will have bumps in the road and the way he was at Triple-A in 2012, that 16-game bump in the road was just that -- a small bump.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: I'm Fine if Cherington Takes Off for the Rest of the Offseason

    Like I said, I have confidence in Middy for 2014. I do think he will do better than 2013 both at bat and in the field, but I am worried he may not, and don't think Holt or Snyder are good enough to take his place if he struggles or gets hurt. 

    I have more faith in Bogey, but it wouldn't hurt to get a strong defensive back-up SS just in case he struggles or gets hurt. A back-up SS would cover both Middy and Bogey, and would even help if we had a big issue at 1B as Middy could cover 1B in a pinch.

    Yes, Middy's OPS has improved pretty steadily through the minors, but he still has a lot to prove. I'm OK with 25Hr and a .320 OBP as long as he fields more like 2012 than 2013. I expect numbers something like that, but think we could use insurance on the left-side defense.

     
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