Importance of Ellsbury

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Importance of Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Importance of Ellsbury : is a menace to society...a bad influence on Lowrie and Ellsbury, works tirelessly behind the scenes to get Francona fired.. 
    Posted by jete02fan[/QUOTE]

    and, most importantly, DOESN'T LEAVE ANY POTATO SALAD ON THE CLUBHOUSE BUFFET FOR BIG PAPI!!!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    10 reasons for softy to retire...

    1) Wake 3rd in WHIP, 4th in IP, and Sox 4-2 in his starts.
    2) Jake at .370 OBP, even better at leadoff.
    3) Jed at .291 with 17 extra base hits in 182 ABs showing "pop".
    4) VTek throwing well (higher CS% than VMart).
    5) VTek beginning to hit well (.874 OPS last 28 days/.898 last 14).
    6) CERA following the usual & predictable trends.
    7) Salty proving many of us wrong (1.058 OPS last 28 days).
    8) "Fat" Beckett re-signed and performing at his best.
    9) BHall and Patterson now in limbo.
    10) His heroes broken or cut loose.
     
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    Ellsbury is on fire. I have to admit he has surpassed my expectations so far. His swing is so much better than it was the past couple of seasons. Keep up the good work, Jacoby!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    Ellsbury was quoted as saying one goal for this year was making the All-Star team, and it sure looks like he has a shot at it.  Third best hitting outfielder in the AL behind Bautista and Granderson.  2d in AL in hits (amazing), 1st in doubles and SB's, 9th in total bases, 4th in runs. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

     I've always thought that Ellsbury is an exceptional baseball talent and I have never gotten the knocks on his defense. Granted is arm is probably not bettter than average, but I see him getting to balls that I doubt other outfielders would ever get to and often making terrific sliding grabs. I watch him getting jumps on balls, tracking them and I just don't see the issue. If we let this guy go just because we can't deal with his agent they'll be lots of teams lined up ready to pay big money for his services. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    We've "dealt with" his agent many times.
    Bora$$ will force Jacoby to free agency.
    Theo will set a good price minus the value of the draft pick(s) we get if he walks.
    Jacoby will probably be offered more by someone else.
    Jacoby will choose the most money.

    Look at it this way: we will have gotten 3 prime years out of him and probaby 2 draft picks.

    I'd love to see him back.

    His hitting and OBP have been improving nicely. I am confident he can keep it up and maybe even keep improving as he enters his prime.

    As for his fielding:
    His arm is less than average.
    In my opinion, he gets late breaks and takes wrong angles more than the "norm".
    His speed helps him make up for it sometimes and helps him make plays others can't make when he gets a normal break on the hit.
    I think he has improved since 2008-2009, but is still about average.

    As for his baserunning:
    His speed is a big advantage and a high value, but he seems to run into more outs than he should. His CS% is higher (25%) this year than 2008-2009.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    If we get Ellsbury up to type A status before he leaves I'm down with letting him go, and I expect him to just keep getting better.

    Do we really want to fork out another $142 mil deal to keep him?

    The guy who is the elephant in the room right now is Papi, who has completely skewed my projections for him this year. Yesterday's announcers were right. The Yanks are going to want Ortiz next winter. No question about it.

    We would potentially get 2 picks for him also!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

     I guess it's my eyes but I just don't see the late breaks----though no outfielder always gets the reads right. As for bad angles, my take is he almost always gets to the ball and makes the catch. I don't see what's to argue with that.
     Concerning "another 142 million"---that being roughly JD Drew money---I'd do it in a heart beat. We don't have a salary cap and this guy is only gonna get better. I don't understand folks who seem to prize prospects above the real deal. The baseball landscape is littered with prospects who didn't work out!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Importance of Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE] I guess it's my eyes but I just don't see the late breaks----though no outfielder always gets the reads right. As for bad angles, my take is he almost always gets to the ball and makes the catch. I don't see what's to argue with that.  Concerning "another 142 million"---that being roughly JD Drew money---I'd do it in a heart beat. We don't have a salary cap and this guy is only gonna get better. I don't understand folks who seem to prize prospects above the real deal. The baseball landscape is littered with prospects who didn't work out!
    Posted by trouts[/QUOTE]

    Do you have a concept of what Drew was paid?  Drew's deal was half of that in total value (70% on an AAV basis).  Next time you watch a game, keep an eye on Ells' in CF.  More often than not he takes an extra half second to track the ball before he breaks, which as Moon has said, is frequently made up for by his speed.  This lack of a quick read causes him to be a defense neutral player instead of someone who adds value through his defense.  His defense doesn't hurt the team, but it also doesn't do it any favors.

    His angles (specifically going back on balls) are terrible, which is why he plays so deep.  He knows it's a weakness, and he mitigates it through his positioning.  This does mean that more bloop hits fall in front of him than the normal CF which also contributes to his neutral defensive value.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    Regarding type A status, I wouldn't be so sure of the compensation rules in the next CBA.  Hopefully they will only be changed for RP's, but we can't be sure.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    I guess it's my eyes but I just don't see the late breaks----though no outfielder always gets the reads right. As for bad angles, my take is he almost always gets to the ball and makes the catch.

    He missed the dbl over his head in the Wake game by taking a right angle approach. He has missed several others. His UZR rating is improving, but still is not very good.

    I don't see what's to argue with that. 

    Watch closely.

     Concerning "another 142 million"---that being roughly JD Drew money---I'd do it in a heart beat.

    Jacoby will be older than Crawford at his signing.

    We don't have a salary cap and this guy is only gonna get better. I don't understand folks who seem to prize prospects above the real deal. The baseball landscape is littered with prospects who didn't work out!

    He'll be about at peak prime the year before his last year under team control. If we sign him to 7 years, they almost all will be past prime.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    Regarding type A status, I wouldn't be so sure of the compensation rules in the next CBA.  Hopefully they will only be changed for RP's, but we can't be sure.

    Regarding type A status, I wouldn't be so sure of the compensation rules in the next CBA.  Hopefully they will only be changed for RP's, but we can't be sure.

    Regarding type A status, I wouldn't be so sure of the compensation rules in the next CBA.

    They may seek to limit strong teams from getting so many picks.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Importance of Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]Regarding type A status, I wouldn't be so sure of the compensation rules in the next CBA.  Hopefully they will only be changed for RP's, but we can't be sure. 

    Regarding type A status, I wouldn't be so sure of the compensation rules in the next CBA.  Hopefully they will only be changed for RP's, but we can't be sure. 

    Regarding type A status, I wouldn't be so sure of the compensation rules in the next CBA. They may seek to limit strong teams from getting so many picks.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Was there supposed to be more to this post Moon?  Personally, I think that MLBPA is going to push to at least remove RP's from the type A comp system because how dramatically it affects their leverage in FA.  The owners could probably point to Juan Cruz's struggles after signing and Soriano's struggles / injury as reasons that teams were less interested.  It could get very interesting.

    I don't think it's really an issue of strong teams getting too many picks though.  I think it's that some teams know how to work the system and gaining the picks makes them a strong team, which allows them to develop more strong players, who end up being type A/type B FA's when they leave.  Which of course gives the team even more high picks, etc.  Kind of a chicken or the egg situation.  
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    I went from 2B to CF, and it is hard to learn the reads on line shots hit at you. paying attention to lefties and righties and seeing how (angle of bat) the bat hits the ball is a key to judging the curve of the balls hit your way as well.

    I think Jacoby is getting better, but still needs to improve to be above average. Playing so deep and then still allowing balls to go over your head by taking wrong angles or breaking slow takes away most of his speed advantages.

    I hate to sound like I am being overly critical of Jacoby. The kid has been a big catalyst for this team's success. He's at .374 in OBP now! He's creating runs with his speed. The Yankees looked like us last year with Jacoby taking 3rd base on those steal and bad throw plays.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Importance of Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Importance of Ellsbury : Was there supposed to be more to this post Moon?  Personally, I think that MLBPA is going to push to at least remove RP's from the type A comp system because how dramatically it affects their leverage in FA.  The owners could probably point to Juan Cruz's struggles after signing and Soriano's struggles / injury as reasons that teams were less interested.  It could get very interesting. I don't think it's really an issue of strong teams getting too many picks though.  I think it's that some teams know how to work the system and gaining the picks makes them a strong team, which allows them to develop more strong players, who end up being type A/type B FA's when they leave.  Which of course gives the team even more high picks, etc.  Kind of a chicken or the egg situation.  
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE] The CBA will be interesting in as much as I think the MLBPA will come to the table happy to keep what they have. Rather tan a single class of players like relievers being Type A's, I think the MLBPA big push would be for revenue sharing to have spending requirements on it or the funds being redistributed. And they'll find some owners at the table on their side. Bigger issue that effects all members, regardless of position played and whether they are in arbitration years or FA years.

    The owners in fact are more likely to have some cat herding of their own to do because you have three classes of ownership with different interests. And to an extent the owners have an interest in keeping the bigger market teams competitive all the time. Revenue sharing, merchandising and national media deals are all dependent on the viability of the largest markets brands being vibrant. If your the big market teams feeding the others or the small market guys counting on that revenue you don't want to see the NY, LA, Chicago, Philadelphia, New England and No Cal markets uncompetitive for years at a time.

    There seems to me to be an understanding between the MLBPA and MLB that there is a lot of feed at the trough for all the pigs and unlike the NFL the owners don't have the hubris to try and up their deal, in part because protecting their anti-trust exemption tempers how bold the owners will be. Plus no player's association is better run than the MLBPA. 

    Just my take
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    Good take katz.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from REBEL. Show REBEL's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury


    ELLSBURY HAS MATURED INTO THE MOST DISRUPTIVE  OFFENSIVE FORCE IN THE AMERICAN LEAGUE, MAYBE ALL OF BASEBALL!  PLUS, HE IS FIELDING VERY WELL!!  WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO ALL THE EXPERTS WHO WANTED TO TRADE ELLSBURY??  FOUND ROCKS TO CRAWL UNDER?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    Another insightful post Katz! Is it truly in baseball's interest for a New York or Boston franchise to be mediocre for 4-5 years at a time? Where is the revenue sharing going to come from then? I think you are on to something there.

    Whatever deal they do, the players want more income and the owners want to cut their costs. The part of the game which the players really don't care about that much is the draft. The huge signing bonuses for draftees are probably going to be controlled a little. Those players are not a part of the union yet so they are a union bargaining chip. I think we are going to see a reduction in overslot signings.

    If we really look at the details, the impact of overslot signings is right there with free agency. A big FA signing like Sabbathia can be huge but often a FA will tank after the big contract or not be worth the anticipated value. A team like the Redsox being able to acquire 4-5 more stud prospects each year through overslot signings can be a game changer. 

    If I were an owner, I'd want every 16 year old dominican kid who signs for $6 mil to also be in the draft with some cost controls involved. It's not the union's concern so they should be more willing to compromise on that front. It's more money for them potentially.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    Wait till Pedey takes off and AGon/Youk/Papi have more potential RBIs on the bases...
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    I agree Moon. If Pedroia and Youk put up normal numbers it could really get ugly. This team is carried by their hitting prowess right now. Sometimes even 2 or 3 hot hitters can carry a team but if 7 or 8 are producing it's a devastating offense.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Importance of Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]Another insightful post Katz! Is it truly in baseball's interest for a New York or Boston franchise to be mediocre for 4-5 years at a time? Where is the revenue sharing going to come from then? I think you are on to something there. Whatever deal they do, the players want more income and the owners want to cut their costs. The part of the game which the players really don't care about that much is the draft. The huge signing bonuses for draftees are probably going to be controlled a little. Those players are not a part of the union yet so they are a union bargaining chip. I think we are going to see a reduction in overslot signings. If we really look at the details, the impact of overslot signings is right there with free agency. A big FA signing like Sabbathia can be huge but often a FA will tank after the big contract or not be worth the anticipated value. A team like the Redsox being able to acquire 4-5 more stud prospects each year through overslot signings can be a game changer.  If I were an owner, I'd want every 16 year old dominican kid who signs for $6 mil to also be in the draft with some cost controls involved. It's not the union's concern so they should be more willing to compromise on that front. It's more money for them potentially.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]Draft slotting will be on the owners minds, no doubt about it. It frankly should be the single biggest issue for the NFL owners but so far they are also stuck on trying to force the players to accept a fixed dollar amount as % of revenue for cap calculation with the assumption that over the life of a CBA the revenues will rise enough to create awesome margins for them. But to me the greatest dysfunction in the NFL system is what top draft picks cost a team today.

    But back to baseball. The issue will be in the slot proposal. It maybe hard to find slots aggressive enough to satisfy the MLBPA and the multiple interests at the table.

    The other issue the owners will want to get regarding draft is international FA. I am sure they will want to get those players involved in the draft, as you suggest.

    While the guys aren't members of the association at the time they are drafted I think there is an awareness of the fact that for a lot of players this is the only money they will make in their careers and any deal will only go so far in limiting that money.

    Baseball in theory is a pretty functional system. Players earn the big money based on merit by working their way through developmental baseball and then the arbitration system before they are eligible for the "big payday". The NFL and NBA have far greater initial contract costs in their draft systems.

    Formal contractual slotting will improve that system for the owners but to get the players to agree to that and an international draft, there has to be a give back somewhere.  I am just not sure yet what the owners give to the MLBPA that they'll want.

    So a likely result could be including international players in a draft, no formal slotting only the players not challenging the commissioners recommendations as collusion and the elimination of the current mulligan system where if you fail to resign a player you get to pick again. That IMHO solves itself by either ending the practice OR giving the team another pick but allowing the unsigned player to become an unrestricted FA like foreign players are today.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    Yet another insightful post fivekatz. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out in baseball. I'm pretty sure Selig would like to see a slot system for the draft.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    I'm not a lawyer but I would think they should be able to at least put the foriegn players into the draft. It often requires a ton of cash to sign a 16 year latin player because they are effectively free agents from the start. It's kind of unfair to the US players, who usually are not in such good bargaining position. Putting all such players in the draft equalizes each team's access to players and saves at least some money for owners.

    I have serious doubts about the legality of slotting, even if it is informal. The existing system should be borderline legal IMO but then again, for some reason, baseball is effectively an unregulated monopoly.

    I don't think we are going to see big changes in the CBA beyond the above. I do think the teams will not be alloweed to go into "Loria" mode as much as it is not good to have a team basically live of the revenue sharing money. I would think that these two steps should be minimal in a new deal. Anything beyond that would be gravy. I don't see how they can hard slot draftees legally? It's effectively restriction of trade. Again, I'm not a lawyer and I haven't even slept in a Holidy Inn in years!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Importance of Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]I'm not a lawyer but I would think they should be able to at least put the foriegn players into the draft. It often requires a ton of cash to sign a 16 year latin player because they are effectively free agents from the start. It's kind of unfair to the US players, who usually are not in such good bargaining position. Putting all such players in the draft equalizes each team's access to players and saves at least some money for owners. I have serious doubts about the legality of slotting, even if it is informal. The existing system should be borderline legal IMO but then again, for some reason, baseball is effectively an unregulated monopoly. I don't think we are going to see big changes in the CBA beyond the above. I do think the teams will not be alloweed to go into "Loria" mode as much as it is not good to have a team basically live of the revenue sharing money. I would think that these two steps should be minimal in a new deal. Anything beyond that would be gravy. I don't see how they can hard slot draftees legally? It's effectively restriction of trade. Again, I'm not a lawyer and I haven't even slept in a Holidy Inn in years!
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]The way hard slots become legal is if the MLBPA agrees to it. The very nature of a CBA is restriction of trade. A draft is a restriction of trade because it assigns exclusive negotiating rights. The players association has to agree to that and would have to agree to its expansion to include foriegn players.

    While professional sports owners often find themselves in battles with the players associations in their sports the funny thing is they need them, because they need a CBA to define rules.

    Arbitration was a restriction in trade that Marvin Miller agreed to in part because he felt that salaries would rise faster if there was limitations to supply. Owners who invest a great deal of time and money in development wanted a cost constrained, contractual control period and there was the "what was in it" for both sides to find an agreement on that topic.

    The current suggested slots aren't challenged in part because they are suggestions and teams do go over slot recommendations. That would give MLB a bulletproof defense that they are only providing guidance on values to the franchises but that free trade remains unrestricted because the suggestions are non-bidding and the proof of that is that draftees are signed to over slot contracts. If all the owners stayed in slot it is likely that the MLBPA would challenge that there was collusion and probably could prevail IMO. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Importance of Ellsbury

    That's good news for the Red Sox then. Theo has built this team on overslot signings.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share