In Defense of Jon Lester

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    In Defense of Jon Lester

    According to multiple team sources, the participation of Jon Lester in joining the other starting pitchers in drinking beer, eating fried chicken and playing video games in the clubhouse during games (as was reported by The Boston Globe Wednesday) was overstated. One source said Lester participated “occasionally, but very infrequent.”

    The sources also confirmed that unlike some of the identified pitchers in the article, Lester’s work ethic didn’t trail off as the Sox slumped through September.

    “Lester was not part of any of this,” said one of the sources. “He worked his azz off right to the end.

     
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    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    In Response to In Defense of Jon Lester:
    [QUOTE]According to multiple team sources, the participation of Jon Lester in joining the other starting pitchers in drinking beer, eating fried chicken and playing video games in the clubhouse during games (as was reported by The Boston Globe Wednesday) was overstated. One source said Lester participated “occasionally, but very infrequent.” The sources also confirmed that unlike some of the identified pitchers in the article, Lester’s work ethic didn’t trail off as the Sox slumped through September. “Lester was not part of any of this,” said one of the sources. “He worked his azz off right to the end.
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]

    Well, if it's not true that Lester drank beer, ate fried chicken, and played video games in the clubhouse, maybe he should have based upon his performances down the stretch. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    I have got to be honest, I personally don't care either way. Whatever went on was an organizational failure.

    The RS probably have got to be getting annoyed at this point with all the unnamed sources. What they all do from today forward matters. If there was that big an issue with some of the pitchers, it was incumbent upon Francona to put a halt to it.

    He did not, he recognized it as failure in management style, stood up like the man he was and said as much without feeding the endless appetite for dirt and detail. He moved on saving the RS ownership from the difficult choice of extending him or not. So I have nothing but admiration for his character and respect for the total body of work he had here as the manager. But he owned it and I am sure it will not continue in 2012.

    The challenge at this point should not be retribution but rather it should be rejuvenation.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    I'm still trying to figure out what the heck is so evil about eating fried chicken.

    I mean grilled or broiled is better healthwise....but look at this and say you don't get a real hankering for a trip to the Colonel's...



     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    In Response to In Defense of Jon Lester:
    [QUOTE]According to multiple team sources, the participation of Jon Lester in joining the other starting pitchers in drinking beer, eating fried chicken and playing video games in the clubhouse during games (as was reported by The Boston Globe Wednesday) was overstated. One source said Lester participated “occasionally, but very infrequent.” The sources also confirmed that unlike some of the identified pitchers in the article, Lester’s work ethic didn’t trail off as the Sox slumped through September. “Lester was not part of any of this,” said one of the sources. “He worked his azz off right to the end.
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]
    once is too much for DR Spocks son
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    On MLB Radio the other morning, Rob Dibble stated unequivocally that beer drinking before, during and after games (of course) goes on, and has gone on for years in most all MLB clubhouses.

    After thinking that through, I still find the prior to and during games amazing. This practice hopefully will be stopped for the Boston Red Sox in 2012 and going forward.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from promise4you. Show promise4you's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    Who does he need defending from? Not us nitwit posters obviously!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    In Response to In Defense of Jon Lester:
    [QUOTE]According to multiple team sources, the participation of Jon Lester in joining the other starting pitchers in drinking beer, eating fried chicken and playing video games in the clubhouse during games (as was reported by The Boston Globe Wednesday) was overstated. One source said Lester participated “occasionally, but very infrequent.” The sources also confirmed that unlike some of the identified pitchers in the article, Lester’s work ethic didn’t trail off as the Sox slumped through September. “Lester was not part of any of this,” said one of the sources. “He worked his azz off right to the end.
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]

    The truth is probably in what we saw on the field. 
    Lester looked heavier and lacked focus most of the season.  Josh started out great then finished badly, he and Wake both had bellies that belong on two retired veterans and Lackey just stunk up the place. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    Few thoughts folks:

    Pitchers carrying extra weight in the middle and the legs is nothing new to baseball. In fact the RS having been trying to get Buchholz to get heavier and Pedro Martinez was traded from the Dodgers because he was thought to be too light to last in baseball.

    Starting pitchers hanging as an almost seperate group is nothing new to baseball. The nearest equvilent is the sepration of defensive and offensive units in football. 

    Frankly for all it has been worth a ton of headlines, it wasn't that guys were hanging out in the clubhouse during games. DHs go there regularly. It wasn't even that they were eating, drinking or playing video games during the games.

    It was that when times got tough, Tito did not want them to do it any more but his established management style that allowed him to establish some remarkable career results as the RS manager failed him and the guys did not respond.

    Tito did not know how to switch gears and just rather than encorage guys to do what he thought they needed to do, demand it.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    In Response to Re: In Defense of Jon Lester:
    [QUOTE]Few thoughts folks: Pitchers carrying extra weight in the middle and the legs is nothing new to baseball. In fact the RS having been trying to get Buchholz to get heavier and Pedro Martinez was traded from the Dodgers because he was thought to be too light to last in baseball. Starting pitchers hanging as an almost seperate group is nothing new to baseball. The nearest equvilent is the sepration of defensive and offensive units in football.  Frankly for all it has been worth a ton of headlines, it wasn't that guys were hanging out in the clubhouse during games. DHs go there regularly. It wasn't even that they were eating, drinking or playing video games during the games. It was that when times got tough, Tito did not want them to do it any more but his established management style that allowed him to establish some remarkable career results as the RS manager failed him and the guys did not respond. Tito did not know how to switch gears and just rather than encorage guys to do what he thought they needed to do, demand it.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Thats exactly what I have been saying.  Tito had a laid back, the guys will get it done style of managing with very little discipline in mind because he didn't like to make waves.  It was probably time for a change if he lost control.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    If Lester is seriously a hard worker, we'll know in the spring.   Because he was mediocre this year and down right awful in september.  He better be working his azz off all winter and starting today.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    In Response to Re: In Defense of Jon Lester:
    [QUOTE]On MLB Radio the other morning, Rob Dibble stated unequivocally that beer drinking before, during and after games (of course) goes on, and has gone on for years in most all MLB clubhouses. After thinking that through, I still find the prior to and during games amazing. This practice hopefully will be stopped for the Boston Red Sox in 2012 and going forward.
    Posted by sindarin-erebor[/QUOTE]

    Well, at least someone has come out to say that it's not just the Red Sox clubhouse. The reporters who made such a huge deal of it have to know that as well. I guess it's just grasping at straws. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    In Response to Re: In Defense of Jon Lester:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: In Defense of Jon Lester : Well, at least someone has come out to say that it's not just the Red Sox clubhouse. The reporters who made such a huge deal of it have to know that as well. I guess it's just grasping at straws. 
    Posted by kimsaysthis[/QUOTE]Kim is about feeding the beast.

    Almost every incident that has sent the Nation into over drive for those close the industry is not half as bad as it can be made to sound.

    Adrian Gonzalez sitting in front of his locker with a torn calf muscle he has played on for 5 weeks and crushed is asked for his thoughts and says "I guess it was God's will and gets crushed?" Really?

    Youk gets crushed for getting on peoples nerves trying to inject himself into the tension in the room get crushed while Vtek get crushed for not doing that. Really?

    Beckett particularly annoys me. His 2011 was awesome. 5th in ERA, 4th in WHIP doing it without the benefit of run support. He gets his ankle caught in the other pitcher mound rut, turns it badly comes back and isn't crisp and he gets totally crushed, labeled as a lazy, fat pig. Really?

    The BS about Wakefield's chase for 200 being a factor when everybody pretty knows in hindsight the RS did not have anybody else to take those starts. Really?

    The gutter gets lower still when a never proven allegation about Tek and a NESN sideline reporter is turned into a "clubhouse issue". Really?

    But lowest is Tito bows out with the same articulate dignity that marked his entire career here and somebody prints an allegation from an unnamed source that suggests Terry is a serious problem with prescription pain killers and was pulled down by his marriage. Really? Then the source becomes an owner and the writer of the information that never should have been printed comes out and states that wasn't his source and that doesn't stop people from continuing to blame the Trio. 

    Pedey's a liar, Ellsbury's detached, Papelbon choked but Crawford some how is a stand up guy because while he just blew chunks all year he was a stand up sound bite. Really!

    No matter how much the RS embarrassed themselves in September because they failed to back into the playoffs because their pitching was never taking them all the way; the media and the fans who have bought into the trash they have been peddling are embarrassing themselves far more in October. Boston right now does not look like it has the best fans in sports, just the best front runners and world's sorest losers!

    Sorry for the rant all, I am finally suffering whining fatigue I fear. But if you look at the that list twice is this really what RS Nation is all about?


     
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    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    In Response to Re: In Defense of Jon Lester:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: In Defense of Jon Lester : Kim is about feeding the beast. Almost every incident that has sent the Nation into over drive for those close the industry is not half as bad as it can be made to sound. Adrian Gonzalez sitting in front of his locker with a torn calf muscle he has played on for 5 weeks and crushed is asked for his thoughts and says "I guess it was God's will and gets crushed?" Really? Youk gets crushed for getting on peoples nerves trying to inject himself into the tension in the room get crushed while Vtek get crushed for not doing that. Really? Beckett particularly annoys me. His 2011 was awesome. 5th in ERA, 4th in WHIP doing it without the benefit of run support. He gets his ankle caught in the other pitcher mound rut, turns it badly comes back and isn't crisp and he gets totally crushed, labeled as a lazy, fat pig. Really? The BS about Wakefield's chase for 200 being a factor when everybody pretty knows in hindsight the RS did not have anybody else to take those starts. Really? The gutter gets lower still when a never proven allegation about Tek and a NESN sideline reporter is turned into a "clubhouse issue". Really? But lowest is Tito bows out with the same articulate dignity that marked his entire career here and somebody prints an allegation from an unnamed source that suggests Terry is a serious problem with prescription pain killers and was pulled down by his marriage. Really? Then the source becomes an owner and the writer of the information that never should have been printed comes out and states that wasn't his source and that doesn't stop people from continuing to blame the Trio.  Pedey's a liar, Ellsbury's detached, Papelbon choked but Crawford some how is a stand up guy because while he just blew chunks all year he was a stand up sound bite. Really! No matter how much the RS embarrassed themselves in September because they failed to back into the playoffs because their pitching was never taking them all the way; the media and the fans who have bought into the trash they have been peddling are embarrassing themselves far more in October. Boston right now does not look like it has the best fans in sports, just the best front runners and world's sorest losers! Sorry for the rant all, I am finally suffering whining fatigue I fear. But if you look at the that list twice is this really what RS Nation is all about?
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    That is exactly how I feel about the situation. Well done. I couldn't have said it better, except for the first line, which I assume you meant to type "it's". :)

    Btw, Seth Meyers would love this for his Weekend Update "Really?" segment on SNL. And he's a Sox fan as well. lol
     
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    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    Yes Kim it was a typo, it was supposed to be it's.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    In Response to Re: In Defense of Jon Lester:
    [QUOTE]Few thoughts folks: Pitchers carrying extra weight in the middle and the legs is nothing new to baseball. In fact the RS having been trying to get Buchholz to get heavier and Pedro Martinez was traded from the Dodgers because he was thought to be too light to last in baseball. Starting pitchers hanging as an almost seperate group is nothing new to baseball. The nearest equvilent is the sepration of defensive and offensive units in football.  Frankly for all it has been worth a ton of headlines, it wasn't that guys were hanging out in the clubhouse during games. DHs go there regularly. It wasn't even that they were eating, drinking or playing video games during the games. It was that when times got tough, Tito did not want them to do it any more but his established management style that allowed him to establish some remarkable career results as the RS manager failed him and the guys did not respond. Tito did not know how to switch gears and just rather than encorage guys to do what he thought they needed to do, demand it.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]
    How the extra weight is distributed and what shape it's in make a difference from pitcher to pitcher. It's not enough to say simply that a team wants pitcher A to gain weight and pitcher B to lose weight. Normally, a conditioning routine is prescribed to go with the weight gain/loss. Extra weight can result in flaccid thighs if proper exercise is not done. How this applies to Beckett, if at all, is not known at the moment but would be interesting to know. Word is that some pitchers slacked off in their conditioning. Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't.
    If so, maybe Beckett was one of them. Maybe not. 
    Offensive and defensive units are never on the field at the same time. Pitchers and their teammates are always on the field at the same time.While offensive and defensive units may receive instruction when they are not on the field, they are never cut off from the game, and are usually very much aware of what the other unit is doing. Pitchers playing video games in the clubhouse are totally cut off from the game. They are not supporting their teammates, as offensive and defensive units are regularly seen doing. And the chances are very good that they aren't learning what they might learn if their eyes were directed to the field of play from close up. A pitcher can learn from something he sees the opposing pitcher do.  


     
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    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    I would advise pitchers to hang out with the smartest catcher they can find. Pick his brain for all it's worth. If he's smart, it's worth plenty. And in that game when he's ready to collapse, he'll make an extra effort to block yet another wild pitch for you. A lot of catchers don't look human. But they are.
    My second choice is the doubleplay combination. Send them gifts. Write them love letters. Yell at the ump when one of them is hurt by a bad call. ( Then go hide in the clubhouse. ) When they return to the bench after making a great DP for another pitcher, pet them a little. I say why not be best friends with the pair that executes the pitcher's "best friend." It does no harm to discuss with them how they position themselves when you throw one kind of pitch or another to a specific batter in a specific situation. There is no rule I know of that prohibits pitchers from knowing what's going on away from the rubber. It's called keeping one's head in the game.  This kind of knowledge is not a distraction, or should not be a distraction, if it's used properly. In fact, it can bring all the factors involved in a pitch into a single intense point of focus. 
     
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    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    Some people have pointed out that tubbies have been and are successful pitchers. But not all bodies are alike. Nor are all pitching motions. Some guys may even pitch better as tubbies, others not. Some guys may even pitch better if weight is put on over the course of a season or within a relatively short time period in the season. Others not so. Energy and stamina could conceivably be improved if weight gain is matched with conditioning. But energy and stamina are at risk if a body is not constructed to handle added weight in a relative short period of time and if conditioning is neglected. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    Excellent post Katz on your summation on how shallow fandom has become in RSN ( if this forum and the Boston media are representative).
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    In Response to Re: In Defense of Jon Lester:
    [QUOTE]Some people have pointed out that tubbies have been and are successful pitchers. But not all bodies are alike. Nor are all pitching motions. Some guys may even pitch better as tubbies, others not. Some guys may even pitch better if weight is put on over the course of a season or within a relatively short time period in the season. Others not so. Energy and stamina could conceivably be improved if weight gain is matched with conditioning. But energy and stamina are at risk if a body is not constructed to handle added weight in a relative short period of time and if conditioning is neglected. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Its not just a conditioning thing with the Sox.  We also have no ace/leader by example, except in pointing out where the beer may be.  We need a new captain "Pede" and some sort of leader to emerge from the staff that reflects everyone else in a positive way.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    The OP was meant to refute what Robert Hohler inferred in his column that labeled Lester as an equal partner in the clubhouse goofing off scene, That column was then treated as gospel by the fans, talk radio hosts, callers, and forum participants. The Hohler article should also have eliminated Henry, Lucchino, and Werner as sources on all of the nasty stuff but didn't. Hohler then said a few days later that those three were not sources. This is what the thread was supposed to be about.
     
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    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    In Response to Re: In Defense of Jon Lester:
    [QUOTE]In Response to In Defense of Jon Lester : The truth is probably in what we saw on the field.  Lester looked heavier and lacked focus most of the season.  Josh started out great then finished badly, he and Wake both had bellies that belong on two retired veterans and Lackey just stunk up the place. 
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Ding ding ding!

    Couldn't agree more.  Lester looked pudgy.  Beer drinking or not, he wasn't in top shape.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    I can't figure out why there was chicken (or beer, but especially chicken) in the club house before the game ...


       I've never ever seen chicken and beer as materials in any team room I was ever a part of.

       I love chicken, so that isn't the issue for me.  I just never realized that club houses had cooked food just laying around.

       After the game, maybe ...



      Maybe my team experiances are just don't qualify me.  I never played anything above college level.

      And that was poorly.

      But eat we did, after, before - but never in or during ...

      My coaches had this thing about being focused on the game.


      Odd ...

      ::  ::
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    In Response to Re: In Defense of Jon Lester:
    [QUOTE]I can't figure out why there was chicken (or beer, but especially chicken) in the club house before the game ...    I've never ever seen chicken and beer as materials in any team room I was ever a part of.    I love chicken, so that isn't the issue for me.  I just never realized that club houses had cooked food just laying around.    After the game, maybe ...   Maybe my team experiances are just don't qualify me.  I never played anything above college level.   And that was poorly.   But eat we did, after, before - but never in or during ...   My coaches had this thing about being focused on the game.   Odd ...   ::  ::
    Posted by SinceYaz[/QUOTE]There are spreads of food there all the time. These guys spend an insane amount of time there. Depending on their work habits guys can show up well before noon for a night game and not leave until after midnight for a 9 inning game.
     
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    Re: In Defense of Jon Lester

    In Response to Re: In Defense of Jon Lester:
    [QUOTE]I'm still trying to figure out what the heck is so evil about eating fried chicken. I mean grilled or broiled is better healthwise....but look at this and say you don't get a real hankering for a trip to the Colonel's...
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]


    I am def a breast and thigh man
     
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