Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from frankn. Show frankn's posts

    Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching

    I looked at stats for innings pitched for the contenders main rotations throughout the year or currently.
    Tigers: Verlander, Scherzer,Fister, Porcello, Penny
    Angels: weaver, Haren, Santana, pineiro, Chatwood
    Rangers: Wilson, Lewis, holland, Ogando, Harrison
    Yankees: Sabathia, Colon, Garcia, Burnett, Nova ( left out Hughes)
    Sox - Beckett, Lester, Lackey, Bedard, wakefield ( left out Buch, Miller)

    Complete games: 
    Tigers -5   Angels - 13  Rangers - 7  Yankees - 3  Red Sox -1
    Weaver had 6; verlander , Santana and Holland had 4, Haren -3 and CC -2.

    Pitched at least 8 innings:
    Tigers 25; Angels 22; Rangers 19; Yankees 18; Sox 13.

    Pitched at least 7 innings:
    Tigers 61; Angels 67; Rangers 54; Yankees 52; Sox 39.

    The angels have 3 innings eaters in weaver, Haren and Santana.  Verlander's numbers are incredible.  Wilson and CC havedone their jobs.  The sox two aces Lester and Beckett should have more starts through the 7th.  Both tend to have control issues or lack of concentration in at least one inning.

    Will this come back and bite Boston in the butt?  How long can aceves bail us out? 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching

    The Sox do not believe in the complete game unless a guy is pitching a no-hitter.

    The 6 innings and out is becoming the standard for Red Sox.

    I could understand this if we had a "shutdown" bullpen. But, this is not a great bullpen, especially when Fat Albert pitches.

    Where have you gone Curt Schilling?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching

    Innings pitched can be misleading P/IP shows that Beckett throws less per inning than does Weaver, but Weaver has more IP...teams bullpens play a role too...

    Sortable Pitching
    RKPLAYERTEAMERAK/BBK/9PITP/PAP/IPW%AGSGBFBG/FRSWHIP
    1Jered WeaverLAA2.283.507.5131884.0715.8.68263.31943700.524.071.00
    2Justin VerlanderDET2.384.549.1033804.0715.7.80066.42343260.725.260.90
    3Josh BeckettBOS2.543.317.8926103.9115.4.70661.71892760.685.880.98
    4Justin MastersonCLE2.832.736.6829623.8515.8.55656.63212521.275.241.21
    5Ricky RomeroTOR2.842.147.3228233.7015.1.59159.52962341.265.681.16
    6James ShieldsTB2.843.838.5729833.6514.3.56562.92612970.884.611.04
    7CC SabathiaNYY2.994.028.5731273.6114.8.72059.42933110.947.121.18
    8Jeremy HellicksonTB3.011.896.1424533.8215.8.52456.81583170.506.081.17
    9Mark BuehrleCHW3.052.494.6826533.6715.0.64754.32833090.926.151.21
    10Jon LesterBOS3.052.528.5127274.0016.5.70029.42272131.077.691.21
    RKPLAYERTEAMERAK/BBK/9PITP/PAP/IPW%AGSGBFBG/FRSWHIP
    11Dan HarenLAA3.165.937.3832253.9915.9.61958.72733370.814.891.01
    12Gio GonzalezOAK3.212.098.9528793.9817.1.52228.42272350.976.591.34
    13Doug FisterDET/SEA3.263.295.5327473.6515.1.31655.02833130.903.701.16
    14Felix HernandezSEA3.273.248.7732373.7915.5.54259.12892910.994.821.18
    15C.J. WilsonTEX3.282.758.1130983.9116.1.70028.72772701.036.331.20
    16Ervin SantanaLAA3.332.826.9829813.6414.9.52628.82773220.864.911.18
    17David PriceTB3.403.918.6930854.0116.2.52258.72422850.855.241.10
    18Matt HarrisonTEX3.542.105.9825153.9016.2.52652.02452461.006.211.30
    19John DanksCHW3.633.007.2622613.8216.0.40054.22002320.864.201.26
    20Bartolo ColonNYY3.633.417.5321293.7015.4.47153.01932300.845.971.24
    RKPLAYERTEAMERAK/BBK/9PITP/PAP/IPW%AGSGBFBG/FRSWHIP
    21Alexi OgandoTEX3.682.886.7224843.9216.1.63253.91772940.607.421.16
    22Michael PinedaSEA3.713.129.1824013.8715.7.52956.81562520.625.351.09
    23Colby LewisTEX4.192.927.3427483.8216.0.55053.01843400.547.501.21
    24Josh TomlinCLE4.254.244.8423703.5814.3.63251.82203290.676.751.08
    25Trevor CahillOAK4.261.786.5029053.7716.4.40950.03272361.395.531.42
    26Derek HollandTEX4.302.236.9127133.7816.4.70649.82622650.998.761.43
    27Gavin FloydCHW4.363.326.7924843.6815.2.54552.92342710.866.741.17
    28Jeremy GuthrieBAL4.421.985.3427953.7015.8.27349.02383500.685.241.33
    29Nick BlackburnMIN4.491.414.6124293.6316.4.41244.62962401.235.891.60
    30Jason VargasSEA4.522.085.5327183.7316.1.36848.92273430.664.781.35
    RKPLAYERTEAMERAK/BBK/9PITP/PAP/IPW%AGSGBFBG/FRSWHIP
    31Max ScherzerDET4.522.907.7328293.9717.1.61950.02133020.717.291.37
    32Wade DavisTB4.521.624.8824083.6916.1.50047.91913210.607.291.41
    33Carl PavanoMIN4.622.223.9827583.5415.2.35346.63453111.115.171.38
    34Jeff FrancisKC4.642.534.5926863.6715.9.26347.02993070.975.601.38
    35Brandon MorrowTOR4.793.0410.3524793.9917.4.50051.81432500.577.001.30
    36Fausto CarmonaCLE4.841.965.2825783.6215.8.31624.13122361.325.771.34
    37Luke HochevarKC4.971.935.4828043.7315.8.47448.22992811.067.361.32
    38Rick PorcelloDET5.012.445.3223623.6515.9.60045.72742421.138.581.44
    39Brad PennyDET5.071.303.7425033.6816.0.47444.52812801.006.101.50
    40Brian DuensingMIN5.092.256.3924983.7316.4.40946.12302810.826.221.53
    Here's the leaders based on IP...
    Sortable Pitching
    RKPLAYERTEAMGPGSIPHRERBBSOWLSVHLDBLSVWHIPERA
    1Justin VerlanderDET2929215.21476357482182050000.902.38
    2CC SabathiaNYY2929211.01997870502011870001.182.99
    3Felix HernandezSEA2929209.118482766320413110001.183.27
    4James ShieldsTB2828209.016571665219913100001.042.84
    5Ervin SantanaLAA2929203.21818074581581190001.173.27
    6Dan HarenLAA3029202.11777671281661380001.013.16
    7Jered WeaverLAA2828201.11535251481681570001.002.28
    8C.J. WilsonTEX2929192.01688370631731460001.203.28
    9David PriceTB2828190.216273724718412110001.103.40
    10Justin MastersonCLE2928187.11766759511391080001.212.83
    RKPLAYERTEAMGPGSIPHRERBBSOWLSVHLDBLSVWHIPERA
    11Ricky RomeroTOR2727187.01456559711521390001.162.84
    12Doug FisterDET/SEA2727182.11787266341126130001.163.26
    13Carl PavanoMIN2727181.02141039336806110001.384.62
    14Luke HochevarKC2828177.117810398561089100001.324.97
     Trevor CahillOAK2929177.11799084721289130001.424.26
    16Mark BuehrleCHW2626177.0178696037921160001.213.05
     Jeremy GuthrieBAL2927177.01839687531056160001.334.42
    18Colby LewisTEX2727171.21608580481401190001.214.19
    19Josh BeckettBOS2626170.01225048451491250000.982.54
    20Jason VargasSEA2727169.11789385501047120001.354.52
    RKPLAYERTEAMGPGSIPHRERBBSOWLSVHLDBLSVWHIPERA
    21Jeff FrancisKC2828168.2198918734865140001.384.64
    22Gio GonzalezOAK2727168.014570608016712110001.343.21
    23A.J. BurnettNYY2828166.116510397741419110001.445.25
    24Max ScherzerDET2828165.11788883491421380001.374.52
     Derek HollandTEX2727165.11808879571271250001.434.30
     Josh TomlinCLE2626165.1157807821891270001.084.25
    27Jon LesterBOS2626165.01385956621561460001.213.05
    28Fausto CarmonaCLE2727163.21701028849966130001.344.84
    29Gavin FloydCHW2625163.015382793712312100001.174.36
    30Brad PennyDET2626156.1184908850659100001.505.07
    RKPLAYERTEAMGPGSIPHRERBBSOWLSVHLDBLSVWHIPERA
    31Jeremy HellicksonTB2424155.112654525610611100001.173.01
    32Matt HarrisonTEX2625155.01527061491031090001.303.54
    33Alexi OgandoTEX2626154.01396863401151270001.163.68
    34Michael PinedaSEA2525153.0117686350156980001.093.71
    35Brian DuensingMIN2726152.01849486481089130001.535.09
    36Wade DavisTB2424149.116180755081880001.414.52
    37Rick PorcelloDET2626149.0178908336881280001.445.01
    38Nick BlackburnMIN2626148.1183917454767100001.604.49
    39Brandon MorrowTOR2424142.2132837654164990001.304.79
    40John DanksCHW2222141.1140615738114690001.263.63
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching

    sorry BT

    I missed your point




    Will this come back and bite Boston in the butt? How long can aceves bail us out?

    good info, good question  frankn

    but seeing how we now have the expanded rosters

    it seems like the answer is no ( this yr)
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching

    Good stats in the OP.  It is absolutely not true that the Sox don't want starters to go more than 6 innings.  The problem is that their pitch count gets too high for them to go beyond 6--or they get hit hard.  Last night Lester threw 44 pitches in the first inning.  He only gave up 1 run, but could only go five innings, departing with a 2-1 lead, which Aceves/Bard gave up. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from wherescreemingcomesfrom. Show wherescreemingcomesfrom's posts

    Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching

    I think the contrary could be true. Starters that have logged heavy innings all year may be tired come playoff time, while we will have a staff that is still strong. This is particulalry important on a team like the Red Sox that is built to play int he post-season every year, and thus the starters can expect extra innings pitched with respect to those on teams that are sitting at home.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching

    In Response to Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching:
    I think the contrary could be true. Starters that have logged heavy innings all year may be tired come playoff time, while we will have a staff that is still strong. This is particulalry important on a team like the Red Sox that is built to play int he post-season every year, and thus the starters can expect extra innings pitched with respect to those on teams that are sitting at home.
    Posted by wherescreemingcomesfrom


    As you mentioned, the data can be interpreted in multiple ways.  The LAA big-3 are on pace for ~ 240 IPs, Verlander on pace for 255, and CC on pace for 254.  Beckett and Lester are on pace for ~200.

    The RS, NYY, and Detroit have pretty good 7/8/9 guys.  I would be too concerned over what amounts to about .5 IPs/GS difference.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching

    In Response to Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching:
    sorry BT I missed your point Will this come back and bite Boston in the butt? How long can aceves bail us out? good info, good question  frankn but seeing how we now have the expanded rosters it seems like the answer is no ( this yr)
    Posted by pinstripezac32


    My point was that beckett's P/IP is lower than Weavers so it's not like he couldn't pitch deeper in games and he also has pitched 2 less games. Ditto Lester...

    I think every team manages workload differently. When you have pens like the Sox and Yank's there's no need to burden the starters by asking them to carry the load in game where you're ahead or nehind by 3 or 4 runs vs teams like the Angels and Rays who have "suspect middle relief and unproven backends of bullpens" and are chasing teams...The Sox and Yanks both have had their share of chalenges with starting pitching, due to both their offenses and bullpens have had the luxary of not taxing thier starters....the Angels are in a dog fight with Texas...all of thier top guys will be in the 220-230 IP plus range by years end and could play a factor come October...
     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching

    In Response to Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching:
    In Response to Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching : My point was that beckett's P/IP is lower than Weavers so it's not like he couldn't pitch deeper in games and he also has pitched 2 less games. Ditto Lester... I think every team manages workload differently. When you have pens like the Sox and Yank's there's no need to burden the starters by asking them to carry the load in game where you're ahead or nehind by 3 or 4 runs vs teams like the Angels and Rays who have "suspect middle relief and unproven backends of bullpens" and are chasing teams...The Sox and Yanks both have had their share of chalenges with starting pitching, due to both their offenses and bullpens have had the luxary of not taxing thier starters....the Angels are in a dog fight with Texas...all of thier top guys will be in the 220-230 IP plus range by years end and could play a factor come October...
    Posted by Beantowne


    thanks BT

    I get it now

    but don't totally agree

    while I agree with it in theory I don't recall to many games when either

    tito or little joe  pulled their starters early for any reason
     
    other than they reached their avg pitch limit

    but when it comes to such things

    I tend to take your words over mine
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching

    In Response to Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching:
    Pitchers build arm strength by pitching, not by being held to arbitrary pitch limits. Before baseball players were considered investments, every team - even the worst ones - had at least one starting pitcher with ten complete games or more every year and the premier starters typically went the distance twenty times or more in a season. And I'm not talking about just the Seavers and Palmers and Gibsons of the world. The 1974 Red Sox had four starters reach double digits in complete games - Tiant, Bill Lee, Reggie Cleveland and Rogelio Moret, and journeyman Dick Drago chipped in with eight more. The complete game is becoming a casualty of modern baseball and it's too bad. The bullpen used to be where a pitcher was sent when he wasn't pitching well, now it's occupied by guys who feel they should be making six million per year (Bobby Jenks, anyone?) to throw fifteen to twenty pitches three times a week. Baseball has changed a lot since the sixties and seventies, and not necessarily for the better.
    Posted by davetheknave


    This is the best response to a post I have read in a long time.

    Besides being right on the money, Dave mentions Reggie Cleveland and Dick Drago , two of my favorite Red Sox pitchers from the past. Now,if you could work in Ray Culp , Rick Wise, Sonny Seibert and Garry Peters , you would have a staff many of the great unsung Red Sox pitchers of my childhood years.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching

    In Response to Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching:
    Pitchers build arm strength by pitching, not by being held to arbitrary pitch limits. Before baseball players were considered investments, every team - even the worst ones - had at least one starting pitcher with ten complete games or more every year and the premier starters typically went the distance twenty times or more in a season. And I'm not talking about just the Seavers and Palmers and Gibsons of the world. The 1974 Red Sox had four starters reach double digits in complete games - Tiant, Bill Lee, Reggie Cleveland and Rogelio Moret, and journeyman Dick Drago chipped in with eight more. The complete game is becoming a casualty of modern baseball and it's too bad. The bullpen used to be where a pitcher was sent when he wasn't pitching well, now it's occupied by guys who feel they should be making six million per year (Bobby Jenks, anyone?) to throw fifteen to twenty pitches three times a week. Baseball has changed a lot since the sixties and seventies, and not necessarily for the better.
    Posted by davetheknave


    You can blame a lot of it on Billy Martin and what he did to his young pitching staff with the A's in 1980.  He ruined some very promising careers that year and the rest of baseball took notice.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from frankn. Show frankn's posts

    Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching

    Love the post by Davethe knave.  Read the SI article about the kid out of UCLA ( The Diamondbacks 1st rounder); interesting stuff on pitching.  Bob Gibson, Jack Morris, Jim Palmer, Tom Seaver; they did pretty well in the post season.  Wonder how many innings they logged in a year and how deep in games they would go.

    I think Beckett has had a great year, but this is something that could be improved upon, although games may tip the 6 hour mark.  I love Lester, but his year has been so so.  He's capable of greatness and keeping his pitch count manageable so he can go further in games is part of how he can improve.  IMO he should be in the top 3 pitchers in MLB every year.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching

    Completely different era today. Drawing analogies to 4-man rotations and CG's is limited in scope as the game's evolution into the steroid/hitting era takes on it's own proportions.

    And the bottom line is: line-ups try to work pitchers...not every pitcher has the command of a Cliff Lee.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching

    In Response to Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching:
    In Response to Re: Innings pitched and the contenders starting pitching : As you mentioned, the data can be interpreted in multiple ways.  The LAA big-3 are on pace for ~ 240 IPs, Verlander on pace for 255, and CC on pace for 254.  Beckett and Lester are on pace for ~200. The RS, NYY, and Detroit have pretty good 7/8/9 guys.  I would be too concerned over what amounts to about .5 IPs/GS difference.
    Posted by Joebreidey

    They should both get 5 more starts or 30 IP, giving them:
    Beckett 200
    Lester    195

    I don't see us 'saving" these guys so they can go 8 in the playoffs. It is what it is.



     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share