INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

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    INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2011/08/08/billionaire_slim_cashes_in_on_invite/



    FWIW, even before I got to the "most interesting man in the world" reference, the Dos Equis commercial music was in my head.
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    In Response to INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy:
    [QUOTE]http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2011/08/08/billionaire_slim_cashes_in_on_invite/ FWIW, even before I got to the "most interesting man in the world" reference, the Dos Equis commercial music was in my head.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]
    I hate that commercial. Why should I listen to a man's opinion of beer who admittedly doesn't often drink beer? I'd much rather hear from a beer-guzzler. But that's just me.
    And "stay thirsty?" If I'm drinking the beer, I won't be thirsty.
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    my question is if your worth 74 billion bucks, why not go get your hair taken care of like mikey adams???  lol..
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    In Response to Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy:
    [QUOTE]In Response to INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy : I hate that commercial. Why should I listen to a man's opinion of beer who admittedly doesn't often drink beer? I'd much rather hear from a beer-guzzler. But that's just me. And "stay thirsty?" If I'm drinking the beer, I won't be thirsty.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    Haha.  no doubt lloyd.  I kind of like the whole schtick of the Most Interesting Man in the World thing.  But totally agree:  I don't want to hear from him if he is not a beer drinker, and, yeah, stop confusing me:  I'm drinking the beer so I can get un-thirsty.  What gives.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    As i posted under Shaughnessy's story, I disagree with Mr. Slim's Top 5 pitchers.

    Sandy Koufax belongs.

    Statistically, Mr. Slim is correct. But in matters of the heart and the eyes and ears, Koufax belongs in the top 5.

    On TV, I saw him pitch against the Twins in the '65 World Series. He was MVP. Look it up.

    And this from Wikipedia: "Koufax's career peaked with a run of six outstanding seasons from 1961 to 1966, before arthritis ended his career prematurely at age 30. He was named the National League's Most Valuable Player in 1963. He also won the 1963, 1965, and 1966 Cy Young Awards by unanimous votes, making him the first 3-time Cy Young winner in baseball history. In each of his Cy Young seasons, Koufax won the pitcher's triple crown by leading the NL in wins, strikeouts, and earned run average. Koufax's totals would also have led the American League in those seasons.

    "Koufax was the first major leaguer to pitch four no-hitters (including the eighth perfect game in baseball history). Despite his comparatively short career, Koufax's 2,396 career strikeouts ranked 7th in history as of his retirement, trailing only Warren Spahn (2,583) among left-handers. Retiring at the peak of his career, he became, at age 36 and 20 days, the youngest player ever elected to the Hall of Fame."

    Koufax was simply masterful.  He is the standard against which others, especially lefites, are measured. As Gene Mauch once said, "He throws a 'radio ball,' a pitch you hear, but you don't see."

    Mr. Slim is entitled to his opinion, and so he is entitled to be wrong.
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    In Response to Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy:
    [QUOTE]As i posted under Shaughnessy's story, I disagree with Mr. Slim's Top 5 pitchers. Sandy Koufax belongs. Statistically, Mr. Slim is correct. But in matters of the heart and the eyes and ears, Koufax belongs in the top 5. On TV, I saw him pitch against the Twins in the '65 World Series. He was MVP. Look it up. And this from Wikipedia: "Koufax's career peaked with a run of six outstanding seasons from 1961 to 1966, before arthritis ended his career prematurely at age 30. He was named the National League's Most Valuable Player in 1963. He also won the 1963, 1965, and 1966 Cy Young Awards by unanimous votes, making him the first 3-time Cy Young winner in baseball history. In each of his Cy Young seasons, Koufax won the pitcher's triple crown by leading the NL in wins, strikeouts, and earned run average. Koufax's totals would also have led the American League in those seasons. "Koufax was the first major leaguer to pitch four no-hitters (including the eighth perfect game in baseball history). Despite his comparatively short career, Koufax's 2,396 career strikeouts ranked 7th in history as of his retirement, trailing only Warren Spahn (2,583) among left-handers. Retiring at the peak of his career, he became, at age 36 and 20 days, the youngest player ever elected to the Hall of Fame." Koufax was simply masterful.  He is the standard against which others, especially lefites, are measured. As Gene Mauch once said, "He throws a 'radio ball,' a pitch you hear, but you don't see." Mr. Slim is entitled to his opinion, and so he is entitled to be wrong.
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]

    Having seen Koufax pitch; you're preaching to the choir; the point of the article was not his baseball knowledge, FWIW. A couple of other Koufax anecdotes:

    1) He won those Cy Youngs when there was only 1 award for both leagues.

    2) The Dodgers swept the heavily favored Yankees in '63, in large part to him; after game 1, when Koufax set the WS K game record, the usually confident Yankees were "demoralized", including Mantle (who managed the only run in the clinching Game 4 against him via a HR). He also whiffed the first 5 batters in that record setting game (breaking Erskine's record, and since broken by Gibson), including the difficult to whiff Bobby Richardson (22 Ks for the season).

    3) During his perfect game in '65, the opposing pitcher had a 1-hitter.

    4) In the same season, he had another perfect game going until the last batter, who walked on a 3-2 pitch via a questionable call.

    5) He had terrible arm problems throughout his great yrs, and actually had to shut it down in '62 and '64; in '64, the Dodgers finished 6th; after he retired in '66, and after dominating MLB for the decade for the most part, the Dodgers finished 8th, ahead of only 2 expansion teams (Hou, NYM).

    6) In game 7 of the '65 WS, he was pitching on 2 days rest, and as a result, did not have his off the table curve (which Scully adroitly pointed out); after ditching the curve early in the game, he pitched a 2-0 shutout against the slugging Twins, on the road; with only a fastball, spotting it as he deemed necessary. 

    7) I'm a little partial to him, due to my heritage (a Yid), and the fact he came from my neighborhood growing up.

    8) He was a standout college basketball player, and could have been an NBA player (ala Dick Groat, the 1960 NL MVP). He played in exhibition games vs NBA greats.
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    In Response to Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy:
    [QUOTE]my question is if your worth 74 billion bucks, why not go get your hair taken care of like mikey adams???  lol..
    Posted by Hammah29r2[/QUOTE]

    I don't think you can become a billionaire if you give a crap about things like what people think of your hair.
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    In Response to Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy : I don't think you can become a billionaire if you give a crap about things like what people think of your hair.
    Posted by greenwellforpresident[/QUOTE]

    I thought the whole point of being a billionaire is that you don't have to give a crap about things like bad hair.  

    Oh, billionnaire, I don't think I would like to go out with you tonight.  You have bad hair ....
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    It is pretty hard to argue with the top 5 hitters in any case.  Pedro is probably not far removed from the top 5 pitchers either.  Baseball Prospectus has him ranked 18th all time.
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    Koufax gets my vote.

    What I like about the article is the praise heaped on Adrian Gonzalez--by Mr. Slim--as both a ballplayer and a person.  I agree with that. 
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    Koufax was great, no doubt, but I think Pedro needs more consideration. He put up some awesome numbers in an era of great offenses.
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    Pedro reminded me a lot of Koufax.  When either was on, he was unhittable. 
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    MLB's Prime 9 series named Juan Marichal the Pitcher of the 1960s, a decade in which Sandy Koufax (albeit only until his retirement by 67) was completely dominating. It's still mindboggling that Juan never won the Cy Young, and I think sad that too many people only remember the ugly Roseboro bat incident. Marichal rarely gets brought up in great pitcher debates, but he was a fantastic starter for many, many seasons.
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    My Top 5 Pitchers are:
    1. Sandy Koufax
    2. Christy Mathewson
    3. Walter Johnson
    4. Pedro Martinez
    5. Dennis Eckersley (consider that he was a terrific top-of-the line starter before he ever became one of baseball's greatest closers...). What if he was only a closer? How many saves would he have accomplished for his career.
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    In Response to Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy:
    [QUOTE]My Top 5 Pitchers are: 1. Sandy Koufax 2. Christy Mathewson 3. Walter Johnson 4. Pedro Martinez 5. Dennis Eckersley (consider that he was a terrific top-of-the line starter before he ever became one of baseball's greatest closers...). What if he was only a closer? How many saves would he have accomplished for his career.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Just a tad biased; Eckersley over Cy Young, Paige, Grove, Alexander, Feller, Gibson, Spahn, Seaver, Ryan, Carlton, & Maddux; sure.  

    In fact, Eck admits Rivera is better than him. And FWIW, Pedro is probably near the same category as Maddux, but for not as long; BTW TSN has him ranked below Hubbell, Dean, Walsh, Palmer, Ford, Plank, Roberts, Marichal, Perry, Gomez, R. Johnson, & Eck. 


     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    In Response to Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy : Having seen Koufax pitch; you're preaching to the choir; the point of the article was not his baseball knowledge, FWIW. A couple of other Koufax anecdotes: 1) He won those Cy Youngs when there was only 1 award for both leagues. 2) The Dodgers swept the heavily favored Yankees in '63, in large part to him; after game 1, when Koufax set the WS K game record, the usually confident Yankees were "demoralized" , including Mantle (who managed the only run in the clinching Game 4 against him via a HR). He also whiffed the first 5 batters in that record setting game (breaking Erskine's record, and since broken by Gibson), including the difficult to whiff Bobby Richardson (22 Ks for the season). 3) During his perfect game in '65, the opposing pitcher had a 1-hitter. 4) In the same season, he had another perfect game going until the last batter, who walked on a 3-2 pitch via a questionable call. 5) He had terrible arm problems throughout his great yrs, and actually had to shut it down in '62 and '64; in '64, the Dodgers finished 6th; after he retired in '66, and after dominating MLB for the decade for the most part, the Dodgers finished 8th, ahead of only 2 expansion teams (Hou, NYM). 6) In game 7 of the '65 WS, he was pitching on 2 days rest, and as a result, did not have his off the table curve (which Scully adroitly pointed out); after ditching the curve early in the game, he pitched a 2-0 shutout against the slugging Twins, on the road; with only a fastball, spotting it as he deemed necessary.  7) I'm a little partial to him, due to my heritage (a Yid), and the fact he came from my neighborhood growing up. 8) He was a standout college basketball player, and could have been an NBA player (ala Dick Groat, the 1960 NL MVP). He played in exhibition games vs NBA greats.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    LOL. Thanks for the amplification, steve. Yes, I recall now that you and I have had some exchanges about Mr. Koufax. I vividly remember your point 6), game 7 of the '65 Series. That was enough for me, I tell ya.

    He also refused to pitch the first game of that series because it fell on Yom Kippur, so there was no mistaking his authenticity and character, though many did.  Anti-Semitism comes in many forms, as you know.

    Nice book about Koufax, though not a great one - Jane Leavy's 'Sandy Koufax: A Leftie's Legacy' uses his perfect game against the Cubs as an analogy to his career.  Interesting.
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    On Eckersley, again it's based on the adjusment of going from a solid SP (no hitter too, 20 win seasons) to becoming a save specialist. It just gives me a better appreciation of him.
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    In Response to Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy : Having seen Koufax pitch; you're preaching to the choir; the point of the article was not his baseball knowledge, FWIW. A couple of other Koufax anecdotes: 1) He won those Cy Youngs when there was only 1 award for both leagues. 2) The Dodgers swept the heavily favored Yankees in '63, in large part to him; after game 1, when Koufax set the WS K game record, the usually confident Yankees were "demoralized" , including Mantle (who managed the only run in the clinching Game 4 against him via a HR). He also whiffed the first 5 batters in that record setting game (breaking Erskine's record, and since broken by Gibson), including the difficult to whiff Bobby Richardson (22 Ks for the season). 3) During his perfect game in '65, the opposing pitcher had a 1-hitter. 4) In the same season, he had another perfect game going until the last batter, who walked on a 3-2 pitch via a questionable call. 5) He had terrible arm problems throughout his great yrs, and actually had to shut it down in '62 and '64; in '64, the Dodgers finished 6th; after he retired in '66, and after dominating MLB for the decade for the most part, the Dodgers finished 8th, ahead of only 2 expansion teams (Hou, NYM). 6) In game 7 of the '65 WS, he was pitching on 2 days rest, and as a result, did not have his off the table curve (which Scully adroitly pointed out); after ditching the curve early in the game, he pitched a 2-0 shutout against the slugging Twins, on the road; with only a fastball, spotting it as he deemed necessary.  7) I'm a little partial to him, due to my heritage (a Yid), and the fact he came from my neighborhood growing up. 8) He was a standout college basketball player, and could have been an NBA player (ala Dick Groat, the 1960 NL MVP). He played in exhibition games vs NBA greats.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    Great anecdotes, steven.  I was born in 64 so I never had the opportunity to see Koufax pitch, but I sure wish I could have seen him at the ballpark, rather than in old TV clips. 

    Yukon Cornelius
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    Koufax, Orr, Sayers are guys who just were their sports' greatest performers, and never should be discounted for having short careers. Longevity is great, but it should never take away from how great a player is. Orr frequently gets thrown under a bus by Gretzky/Canada-based fans. If Orr played for Toronto, he would have been deemed a national monument, and be on the Canadian dollar coin. And Orr was a national hero anyway after the 1976 Canada Cup. But because he played for the Bruins, the Parry Sound native didn't get his just due. Gretzky played for Edmonton (and Kings, and others) and had a long career, but was always in the Canada media spotlight playing for a Canada-based team. The real fans know how great Koufax was. Orr was just as dominating to his sport. 
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    by no means am I discounting Wayne Gretzky's greatness either, just that it blows me away how many hockey experts don't give Orr enough respect.
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    Greg Maddux probably would get the nod over Pedro for a top 5 pitcher, more Cy Young awards, longer period of dominance and 300+ wins.  For a shorter period though Pedro's dominance is among  perhaps the top 3 ever. His WHIP in 2000 was 0.737 which is simply unbelievable!
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    william, Maddux would be No. 6 on by all-time pitcher list, I threw Eck on there because of the dual role over a career, which makes Eck actually underrated. 
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    True dat, moon, and Koufax did pitch in a relatively dead-ball era. Low ERAs like his and Gibsons are rare these days.
     
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    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    In Response to Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy:
    [QUOTE]Greg Maddux probably would get the nod over Pedro for a top 5 pitcher, more Cy Young awards, longer period of dominance and 300+ wins.  For a shorter period though Pedro's dominance is among  perhaps the top 3 ever. His WHIP in 2000 was 0.737 which is simply unbelievable!
    Posted by william93063[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps you should check Addie Joss.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy

    In Response to Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: INTERESTING Article by Shaughnessy : LOL. Thanks for the amplification, steve. Yes, I recall now that you and I have had some exchanges about Mr. Koufax. I vividly remember your point 6), game 7 of the '65 Series. That was enough for me, I tell ya. He also refused to pitch the first game of that series because it fell on Yom Kippur, so there was no mistaking his authenticity and character, though many did.  Anti-Semitism comes in many forms, as you know. Nice book about Koufax, though not a great one - Jane Leavy's 'Sandy Koufax: A Leftie's Legacy' uses his perfect game against the Cubs as an analogy to his career.  Interesting.
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]

    I read it. One of my faves. if you have HBO, check out the Curb Your Enthusiasm Episode "Palestinian Chicken".

    Funkhauser: "My rabbi says I can't play golf on the Sabbath anymore"

    Larry: "Are you Koufaxian Me?"

     
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