Interesting article from Gordon Edes

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    This paragraph is from an article on ESPNBoston.com.If you want to read the whole article,I've provided the link:

    http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7041678/terry-francona-departure-makes-your-head-spin

    Starting pitchers drinking in the clubhouse during games on days when they weren't pitching, which can leave one boozily indifferent to the plight of your teammates after they've just lost in extra innings? Originally reported in the Boston Herald, it was not only confirmed here, but with the added twist that it has been going on the last two seasons.

    Francona didn't want to go there Friday afternoon, reasoning that if as manager, he'd never singled out players before for petty crimes and misdemeanors, including the posterboy for such behavior, Manny Ramirez, he wasn't about to start now. Fair enough, although a public spanking might have been just desserts for Josh Beckett setting such an embarrassing standard for the other starters on the team.

    "Josh has some real leadership qualities, but this time he didn't lead left, he didn't lead right, he led wrong," one uniformed member of the team said.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    To take a quote out of context, I like this answer from Larry:

    "We're not prepared to answer that question here," Lucchino said. "This is a press conference..."
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    In Response to Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes:
    [QUOTE]To take a quote out of context, I like this answer from Larry: "We're not prepared to answer that question here," Lucchino said. "This is a press conference..."
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    Hilarious.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Guvnor. Show Guvnor's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    if thats accurate then becketts career in boston should be over, absolute disgrace.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    Oh no no no no I disagree. We don't want to know names, we want to pretend all is cool in the back rooms of Fenway. Should a name come out we should ignore it, buy the players jersey, ask for his autograph, and cheer him on all season. No No No we do not want to hear names.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    Beer and clubhouse and baseball is status quo. Beckett's condition is fair game, and 2010 was a fat debacle. But Edes is a bad hack with no story at all. He is simply taking a current baseball hot topic and injecting his own idiocy.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    In Response to Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes:
    [QUOTE]Beer and clubhouse and baseball is status quo. Beckett's condition is fair game, and 2010 was a fat debacle. But Edes is a bad hack with no story at all. He is simply taking a current baseball hot topic and injecting his own idiocy.
    Posted by 1958lesspaul[/QUOTE]

    This statement also describes the witch-hunt mentality of this board as they try to connect the dots to a picture that might be blown completely out of proportion.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    harness, get real - when any tightly run organization, whether it is the sox or national government, have embarrassing info that damages their reputation, you can be sure that what is being told is simply the tip of the iceberg...Tito loved managing the team here - for him to even allude to this and walk away from this job points to severe dysfunction...

    he left because his players were acting like animals and azzhats and even though i am no fan of his coaching style, i respect that
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    I agree.

    I was once upon a time a manager of a crew of 5 and the first year we all got on well because I was a manger who gave a lot of lee-way and respect to my guys. They had previously been managed by an egotistical jerk who ran the ship like Captain Bligh so they were in part relieved to have me take charge. By the end of the second year they had been spoiled to the point where they stopped doing what I had expected of them - a good team job.  It slowly deteriorated and by the beginning of the 3rd year we were all broken up and put on new programs with NASCAR. I got lucky there in a way because I worked solo and had the  time of my life for that season.

    Those first 18 months our crew worked at the highest tier of performance, we were perfect. That had a lot to do with each individuals personality and my managing skills. 6 months later those same personalities and my same skill set failed as a unit.


     
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    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    I just started a thread discussing this very subject. Burrito's example is very pertinent to what I alluded to. I don't buy into the fact that players Tito thought very highly of suddenly became azzes. But I do think that his approach wore thin.
    Perhaps thinner than he was willing to admit.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    You have to be tough. I was always confounded by people who respect people they don't like and at the same time don't respect some of those they care about.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    well Rice said the clubhouse resembled a spa...not good

    the beer thing...really not good

    the backbiting - happens with every team but when you go on a skid like us in september - it could be cancerous

    the lack of conditoning -  see above

    a change will do this club good - but i just want to say again that these modern pro mlbpukes dont deserve to be treated like men/brothers that francona treated them as

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    It depends on what one respects in others.
    The more people under you, the greater the chance you will have detractors.
    Ya can't expect to make everybody happy.

    The idea is to respect yourself, and convey the same to others.
    If that doesn't set well with some, then what they respect probably isn't worth a sh*t.
    If the example you set doesn't bode well with the majority, then don't avoid any mirrors.

    But over time, most anything can get stale.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    Jim Rice would have pounded withing an inch of his life, anyone who behaved like Beckett!  He would make no apology for it and that would be the beginning, middle and end of the discussion!  BTW, even at age 59 I wouldn't bet against him taking Beckett even now!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackyldo. Show jackyldo's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    Pedroia  is quoted  as "I'd run through a wall for Tito" and I believe that..

    BUt you don't see anything attributed to Beckett, Varitek, Drew, Ortiz.. etc.
    They all helped throw  Tito under the bus.

    8 is enough and he made  some   crazy decisions...  Sad  to see him go out like this.   BUT the White Sox or any team looking for a good manager will   do no worse than to call him up...

    Baseball and our desires as fans are about winning  not  finishing behind New York and Tampa  2 years in a row ..  Bon Voyage Francona.... 

    Now let's deal with the cancer  that was the team..
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortuee. Show Ortuee's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    In Response to Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes:
    [QUOTE]Jim Rice would have pounded withing an inch of his life, anyone who behaved like Beckett!  He would make no apology for it and that would be the beginning, middle and end of the discussion!  BTW, even at age 59 I wouldn't bet against him taking Beckett even now!
    Posted by william93063[/QUOTE]

    Jim Rice, really ?....during the 1978 season, when the Sox were ahead and Rice was taken out of the game, he was at Daisy Buchanan's sipping beer before the Sox game was off the TV.........
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    In Response to Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes : Jim Rice, really ?....during the 1978 season, when the Sox were ahead and Rice was taken out of the game, he was at Daisy Buchanan's sipping beer before the Sox game was off the TV.........
    Posted by Ortuee[/QUOTE]

    Sipping one beer after a physically grueling , emotionally exhausting one game playoff played on a hot afternoon of a day game he himself played in is hardly a group of off duty pitchers getting tanked during night games when their teammates are suffering through a brutal loss in extra innings and being in a drunken stupor and not caring!  This is very different and shameful!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSNS14. Show RSNS14's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    I'm surprised to see Tek's name in all of this. I would have thought he was more mature. aside from being backup catcher I always looked at him as a leader in the clubhouse; I guy that could mentor the youngins and set an example. guess I was wrong.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from drpjn. Show drpjn's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes


    The Idiots of 2004 sipped Jack Daniels before a game......many of them.

    A few pitchers, or so alleged, have some beers in the clubhouse during games they didn't pitch.

    The difference?  They won in 2004.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tetonman50. Show tetonman50's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    Right now I don't fully believe anything I am reading. What I do believe is that there was no honest reason to let Francona go this fast.

    If even half of what is being speculated on here is true then I have to ask why didn't Theo or anyone else from the Front Office step in and do something about it?  

    It would have been one thing if Francona ( or any other manager we had at the time)  actually was able to field a team in September, that had half the talent we all were told it had in April.
    The real problem for the Red Sox may start with some beers in the club house, but it goes much further up the organization PAST Francona from there.    More heads then just Francona's need to roll here. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    More heads then just Francona's need to roll here. 

    One head left is Epstein. It needs to roll.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    Many in this forum were never happy with anything - not even between the 2-10 start and Sept. 3rd. Those types are never happy unless they are miserable. They are happy now because of the choke during the last month and Tito departing only because it supports their act / stance and thus inflates their forum ego. Give them a new manager and GM and they will revert back to being forum malcontents. It is their personna.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    Doesn't this tie back to the manager at the end of the day?  Look, I respect Francona and put barely any blame on him for the terrible 2011 season.  Beer drinking the clubhouse?  Francona could have brought these guys into his office and politely have told them that he doesn't want to see it happen again.  Case closed and nobody knows.  Instead, he clearly chose to not disipline these guys.  It's those little things that added up and made perfect sense to not bring him back as manager.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    In Response to Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes:
    [QUOTE]harness, get real - when any tightly run organization, whether it is the sox or national government, have embarrassing info that damages their reputation, you can be sure that what is being told is simply the tip of the iceberg...Tito loved managing the team here - for him to even allude to this and walk away from this job points to severe dysfunction... he left because his players were acting like animals and azzhats and even though i am no fan of his coaching style, i respect that
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]
    HE WAS FIRED !!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes

    In Response to Re: Interesting article from Gordon Edes:
    [QUOTE]Oh no no no no I disagree. We don't want to know names, we want to pretend all is cool in the back rooms of Fenway. Should a name come out we should ignore it, buy the players jersey, ask for his autograph, and cheer him on all season. No No No we do not want to hear names.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]
    Kinda like all those who tried to ignore the ineptness of Francona as a baseball manager. The team wins so he must be doing a good job.  HE WAS FIRED!
     
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