Interleague Play

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    Interleague Play

    An AL team in a NL park loses a good hitter, perhaps its best hitter, and adds one of its worst hitters. A NL team in an AL park loses one of its worst hitters and adds a much better hitter.  As far as I know, in no other sport do the rules create a personnel imbalance of this order.  Has Cosby done a riff on it? Remember his one about the Brits having to wear red coats and fight in the open while the colonists could wear civvies and hide in the forests.
    The arrangement is ridiculous on its face, even if for a stretch or during some years or cumulatively the AL has the better record.  The records are an accident of the current strengths and weaknesses of the teams on both sides. The records do not redeem the principle.  It remains an oddity that calls out for correction.
    The players' union would not trade away the DH, so the adjustment, if any comes, will be in the NL.  The chances are slim.  
    How about an "unfair practice" law from Congress? Ho. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    In Response to Interleague Play:
    [QUOTE]An AL team in a NL park loses a good hitter, perhaps its best hitter, and adds one of its worst hitters. A NL team in an AL park loses one of its worst hitters and adds a much better hitter.  As far as I know, in no other sport do the rules  create a personnel imbalance of this order.  Has Cosby done a riff on it? Remember his one about the Brits having to wear red coats and fight in the open while the colonists could wear civvies and hide in the forests. The arrangement is ridiculous on its face, even if for a stretch or during some years or cumulatively the AL has the better record.  The records are an accident of the current strengths and weaknesses of the teams on both sides. The records do not redeem the principle.  It remains an oddity that calls out for correction. The players' union would not trade away the DH, so the adjustment, if any comes, will be in the NL.  The chances are slim.   How about an "unfair practice" law from Congress? Ho. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    First, the owners signed off on interleague play so no AL team can really complain.

    Second, it's hard for AL teams to cry unfair when they have a winning record. 

    Third, yes the AL teams are losing a good hitter and because of the DH, some teams might be willing to carry a weak bat at another position because of defense. And AL pitchers certainly aren't as used to hitting as NL teams. On the other hand, the AL team likely will have a better hitter on the bench for PH duties and both teams field lineups with the pitcher hitting. It might be more unfair for the NL teams in AL parks. Yes, they're replacing a pitcher for a better hitter, but so are the AL teams. And the player they're putting in at DH probably isn't as good as the normal DH the AL teams have. For example, when an NL team plays Boston, do they have a David Ortiz in the lineup.

    Fourth, having said all this, I say get rid of interleague play. It was OK for awhile, but I'd rather replace those games with more games against A.L teams from the other divisions.


     
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    Re: Interleague Play

    In Response to Re: Interleague Play:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Interleague Play : First, the owners signed off on interleague play so no AL team can really complain. Second, it's hard for AL teams to cry unfair when they have a winning record.  Third, yes the AL teams are losing a good hitter and because of the DH, some teams might be willing to carry a weak bat at another position because of defense. And AL pitchers certainly aren't as used to hitting as NL teams. On the other hand, the AL team likely will have a better hitter on the bench for PH duties and both teams field lineups with the pitcher hitting. It might be more unfair for the NL teams in AL parks. Yes, they're replacing a pitcher for a better hitter, but so are the AL teams. And the player they're putting in at DH probably isn't as good as the normal DH the AL teams have. For example, when an NL team plays Boston, do they have a David Ortiz in the lineup. Fourth, having said all this, I say get rid of interleague play. It was OK for awhile, but I'd rather replace those games with more games against A.L teams from the other divisions.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]
    As I said, the AL's winning record does not affect the principle. The trend could turn around and favor the NL.
    I hear what you say about trade-offs.  
    In the NL parks, the DH on the bench to pinch hit is not the same as the DH with 4 AB's.  Right, the DH for the NL in AL parks is probably not going to be as good a hitter as the local DH, but at least he's a hitter. In NL parks, the DH is replaced by the pitcher at the plate.  
    All things considered, the arrangement favors the NL, but it has lacked the personnel to take full advantage.  So far.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    In Response to Re: Interleague Play:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interleague Play : As I said, the AL's winning record does not affect the principle. The trend could turn around and favor the NL. I hear what you say about trade-offs.   In the NL parks, the DH on the bench to pinch hit is not the same as the DH with 4 AB's.  Right, the DH for the NL in AL parks is probably not going to be as good a hitter as the local DH, but at least he's a hitter. In NL parks, the DH is replaced by the pitcher at the plate.   All things considered, the arrangement favors the NL, but it has lacked the personnel to take full advantage.  So far.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Maybe the reason is it's because the arrangement really doesn't favor the NL teams. Just because you put forth your reasons you believe it favors the NL teams, doesn't mean it does.

    When the fact is that the A.L. teams over a significant amount of time have a better winning record, it's hard to make the case that it's unfair to the AL teams. It's unfair to the DH who has to sit, but the to me, it just levels the playing field when the AL team plays in the NL park and when the NL team plays in the AL park, the AL team has a significant advantage.

    Or at the very least, the advantage an NL team might have as the home team is smaller than the advantage the AL teams have when they're at home.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    In Response to Re: Interleague Play:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interleague Play : Maybe the reason is it's because the arrangement really doesn't favor the NL teams. Just because you put forth your reasons you believe it favors the NL teams, doesn't mean it does. When the fact is that the A.L. teams over a significant amount of time have a better winning record, it's hard to make the case that it's unfair to the AL teams. It's unfair to the DH who has to sit, but the to me, it just levels the playing field when the AL team plays in the NL park and when the NL team plays in the AL park, the AL team has a significant advantage. Or at the very least, the advantage an NL team might have as the home team is smaller than the advantage the AL teams have when they're at home.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]
    Hey, we're both stating opinions.
    I favor my opinion over yours? Is that permissible?
    I will try to say this again. The AL's winning record might very well have more to do with personnel than with the arrangement. That could change.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    I think it is pretty clear that the N.L. has a bigger advantage for games in their park than the A.L. does for games in theirs. It is easier for the N.L. to plug someone in at D.H. than it is for the A.L to lose their D.H. and have the pitcher have to hit.  I don't see how anyone could argue that.  The A.L. has dominated in recent years because they have simply had better teams. That may be starting to change. Personally, I think inter league play is okay, but 18 games is probably too many.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Interleague Play




    greetings dgalehouse

    I think it is pretty clear that the N.L. has a bigger advantage for games in their park than the A.L. does for games in theirs. It is easier for the N.L. to plug someone in at D.H. than it is for the A.L to lose their D.H. and have the pitcher have to hit.
     
    I don't see how anyone could argue that.



    I'm going to give it a shot

    I guess some of it depends on which teams we are talking about

    clearly you can see that NL teams don't have an extra 12 mill dollar bat

    waiting around for a few inter league games


    if you are saying that

    NL teams do have  quality DH's on their rosters

    that puts a big hole, in the very popular theory

    that  the biggest  reason NL clubs don't add the DH is to save on payroll


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    In Response to Re: Interleague Play:
    [QUOTE]I think it is pretty clear that the N.L. has a bigger advantage for games in their park than the A.L. does for games in theirs. It is easier for the N.L. to plug someone in at D.H. than it is for the A.L to lose their D.H. and have the pitcher have to hit.  I don't see how anyone could argue that.  The A.L. has dominated in recent years because they have simply had better teams. That may be starting to change. Personally, I think inter league play is okay, but 18 games is probably too many.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]
    What you said.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerrynewyork. Show jerrynewyork's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    stinks
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    In Response to Re: Interleague Play:
    [QUOTE]greetings dgalehouse I think it is pretty clear that the N.L. has a bigger advantage for games in their park than the A.L. does for games in theirs. It is easier for the N.L. to plug someone in at D.H. than it is for the A.L to lose their D.H. and have the pitcher have to hit.   I don't see how anyone could argue that . I'm going to give it a shot I guess some of it depends on which teams we are talking about clearly you can see that NL teams don't have an extra 12 mill dollar bat waiting around for a few inter league games if you are saying that NL teams do have  quality DH's on their rosters that puts a big hole, in the very popular theory that  the biggest  reason NL clubs don't add the DH is to save on payroll
    Posted by pinstripezac32[/QUOTE]
    Okay, but I think most N.L. teams have a good bat on the bench that they use for pinch hitting.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    Few American League teams have a DH as productive as David Ortiz, so the loss of the DH at a National League park has less impact for most AL teams.

    Few National League teams have a reserve pinch-hitter as productive as David Ortiz, so the addition of a DH at an American League park has less impact for most NL teams.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    Without inter-league play, I gotta believe Boston would not have made the playoffs as often as they have since inter-league play began.

    I like it as it allows fans a chance to see teams compete against their own - teams that otherwise would remain a mystery.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    Seems to me like the AL has the advantage.  When we play at the NL, we start an identical lineup.  When they play at the AL, it's identical except for the NL starting a DH that is about half the player of the AL DH.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    In Response to Re: Interleague Play:
    [QUOTE]Seems to me like the AL has the advantage.  When we play at the NL, we start an identical lineup.  When they play at the AL, it's identical except for the NL starting a DH that is about half the player of the AL DH.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]
    Joe , that makes no sense.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    It makes perfect sense. He's right. The advantage is to the A.L.
    The N.L. not adopting the DH has ultimately resulted in their being an inferior league.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

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    In Response to Re: Interleague Play:
    [QUOTE]It makes perfect sense. He's right. The advantage is to the A.L. The N.L. not adopting the DH has ultimately resulted in their being an inferior league.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure about that. Regardless, due to the economy, the aggregate attitude about player prima donnas and the prohibitive cost to attend games, attendance is down; with one exception: these interleague games sell like hot cakes. Unfortunately, as a result, they shall milk the cash cow by having more of them.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    The populaity of baseball was at an all-time low after the '72 strike.
    The DH and the advent of FA, along with hitter friendly parks and the steroid era gave the game unheralded support. No way they get what they do from these ludicrous ticket prices otherwise.

    The N.L. missed the boat and plays a style not conducive to the game's innovations. That's why they get their azz kicked in inter-league play every year.
    The margin should narrow in the post-steroid era, but there's no denying which league has been superior since inter-league play began.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    In Response to Re: Interleague Play:
    [QUOTE]Without inter-league play, I gotta believe Boston would not have made the playoffs as often as they have since inter-league play began. I like it as it allows fans a chance to see teams compete against their own - teams that otherwise would remain a mystery.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Harness, I'm with you on the fans getting to see other teams play. I enjoy watching players from other teams that we don't see all the time. Some of them that you've always heard about but never saw play, and even the ones that are completely unknown. I'm sure there's a downside to it, but that's certainly the upside.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    In Response to Re: Interleague Play:
    [QUOTE]It makes perfect sense. He's right. The advantage is to the A.L. The N.L. not adopting the DH has ultimately resulted in their being an inferior league.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]
    I just don't get your logic here , Harness.  In the N.L. park, we replace Ortiz with a pitcher who has not batted all year. An almost sure out. In the A.L park , they replace their pitcher with a solid bat off the bench.  Each league may have an advantage in their own park, but the N.L. surely has a bigger advantage in their park.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    In Response to Re: Interleague Play:
    [QUOTE]The populaity of baseball was at an all-time low after the '72 strike. The DH and the advent of FA, along with hitter friendly parks and the steroid era gave the game unheralded support. No way they get what they do from these ludicrous ticket prices otherwise. The N.L. missed the boat and plays a style not conducive to the game's innovations. That's why they get their azz kicked in inter-league play every year. The margin should narrow in the post-steroid era, but there's no denying which league has been superior since inter-league play began.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    The DH side effects includes some lost arts; bunting, strategy, and so on. I find it remarkable how so many Big Leaguers don't know how to bunt; it should be a long daily drill in ST. As a result, I side on letting the P hit; that's the natural way to play the game, FWIW.  Also, if it wasn't for the Union, the DH would have been abandoned by the AL several yrs ago. It wouldn't surprise me if they play baseball some day like they do football; the 9 best defenders, the 9 best hitters, even temporary pinch runners.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    In Response to Re: Interleague Play:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interleague Play : The DH side effects includes some lost arts; bunting, strategy, and so on. I find it remarkable how so many Big Leaguers don't know how to bunt; it should be a long daily drill in ST. As a result, I side on letting the P hit; that's the natural way to play the game, FWIW.  Also, if it wasn't for the Union, the DH would have been abandoned by the AL several yrs ago. It wouldn't surprise me if they play baseball some day like they do football; the 9 best defenders, the 9 best hitters, even temporary pinch runners.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]


    If not for the union...that's like saying if not for the sun...
    I only go by what is, Steve. Not what if.
    As for the natural way to play the game, that's based on how long you have played/observed the game. Many here were born after the DH was instituted, so isn't it natural for them to see it?

    I think what happened to Wang exemplifies how dangerous it is to have pitchers hit/run - especially when they aren't accustomed to it.
    As a fan, I really don't get off seeing .140 hitting pitchers hit.

    I do agree with you regarding game fundamentals as getting lost in the shuffle,
    but much of that is organizational. The Twins scrutinize fundamentals...to the point of not seeing Papi's full worth. It's a two-sided coin.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    In Response to Re: Interleague Play:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interleague Play : I just don't get your logic here , Harness.  In the N.L. park, we replace Ortiz with a pitcher who has not batted all year. An almost sure out. In the A.L park , they replace their pitcher with a solid bat off the bench.  Each league may have an advantage in their own park, but the N.L. surely has a bigger advantage in their park.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]
    Right. At least the NL pitchers have seen pitches at home. The visiting AL pitchers can't distinguish the ball from the resin bag coming at them. ALL AL teams suffer in NL parks even if they don't have an Ortiz at DH.  Typically, the DH is expected to be one of their better hitters. He sits. A pitcher who hasn't seen a pitch all year replaces him.  In the AL park, the NL team gets to substitute a batter for the pitcher, perhaps a batter who doesn't play regularly because of defensive flaws but can still swing the bat, and is used to pinch hit. The NL team gets 4 or more AB's for its best pinch hitter. That the AL team's DH may be a better hitter than the man used by the NL team to DH doesn't begin to compensate the lopsidedness in the NL park.
    On balance, advantage NL. 
    The AL has an overall edge in interleague play because it generally has better teams, not from any advantage conferred by the arrangement. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    In Response to Re: Interleague Play:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interleague Play : The DH side effects includes some lost arts; bunting, strategy, and so on. I find it remarkable how so many Big Leaguers don't know how to bunt; it should be a long daily drill in ST. As a result, I side on letting the P hit; that's the natural way to play the game, FWIW.  Also, if it wasn't for the Union, the DH would have been abandoned by the AL several yrs ago. It wouldn't surprise me if they play baseball some day like they do football; the 9 best defenders, the 9 best hitters, even temporary pinch runners.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    That's quite a leap. In 135 years or so of professional baseball the only change remotely like that is the DH hitting for the pitcher, and that was 38 years ago (wow time flies). So how do you go from that one change to your above statement?

    And like I stated above. BUNTING is supposed to be some great strategy. You're giving up an out just to move a runner over. I've seen this scenario -- bunt the guy to second, he moves to third on an out and is stranded at 3B -- many more times than I've seen -- bunt the guy to second, scores on a single from second.

    I just don't understand the fascination with the bunt and the joy of watching 95 percent of the pitchers flailing away and looking ridiculous.

    And like I stated above. The so-called NL strategy is way overblown and even more so in the age of pitch counts where the pitcher is by the time you have the situation in a close game where you might have to consider PH for the pitcher, the guy's coming out of the game anyway.


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    Oh, you can't make me I'm a part of the union,
    you can't make me I'm a part of the union,
    Oh, you can't make me I'm a part of the union,
    all the live long day, all the live long day!

    Posted on the lockers of Ellsbury's and Lowrie's, et al.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Interleague Play

    Nothing wrong with being part of the Union unless you wanted slavery to continue and two separate countries, the USA and the CSA. 

    As for the MLBPA, it does have a lot to answer for, but there can be little doubt that over the entire history of MLB the owners have been the exploiters.  Betterredthandead appears to think that, when a players financial future is at stake, he should not be allowed to get a second medical opinion. 

    As for interleague play, I believe I am the only one on this board who wrote before this current road trip--see The Danger, now on page 3 or 4--that the Sox were likely to struggle.  In fact, I was worried the Sox would go 3-6 by losing 2 to the Pirates (6th best pitching in the NL), 3 to the Phillies (best pitching in MLB), and 1 to the Astros.  I also defended Francona for giving serious thought to getting Ortiz into the lineup by playing AGon in RF. 

    Back then, just a few days ago, virtually everyone on this board thought I was nuts to see The Danger and to think that playing AGon in RF just might be necessary. 
     

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