Irrevocable Waivers Please!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    The Red Sox would serve themselves well by clearing out some payroll to increase their future flexibility toward value acquisitions. Given that certain players on the team make too much money to be traded for anyone worthwhile, I suggest placing several players on irrevocable waivers, on the hope that a team will pluck the player (and his contract) off the roster. The following players should be placed on irrevocable waivers:

    1. 1B Adrian Gonzalez. I know he's a good hitter. I'm not going to dispute that in the least. But he's not the $20+ million a year caliber hitter that he was for the San Diego Padres. The reality is that he's been underwhelming in Boston. The Red Sox didn't sign him with the expectation that he'd be an above average singles hitter. The Red Sox could likely find someone for one-third the price, maybe one-fourth, who would be roughly as productive. If there's a team out there willing to take a chance on Gonzalez (Baltimore? Seattle? Texas?), I would be content losing him for the salary relief alone.

    2. LF Carl Crawford. He's looked decent in limited at-bats this year. I know he's a better player than he showed last year. It's not his fault that Theo Epstein vastly overpaid him. I realize that once healthy, a rebound to All-Star performance is not beyond the realm of possibility. That being said, his money could be better allocated elsewhere. I think this board would be close to unanimous in that assessment. The problem is that most other teams probably feel that way as well and wouldn't even consider claiming Crawford. Even so, it can't hurt to dangle him, hope for the best, and see what happens. Maybe some desperate team in a pennant race would be foolish enough to grab him (New York?)

    3. Nick Punto. He's nothing special. While the money isn't exorbitant, he's a waste of a roster spot. If someone wants to add him for nothing more than his contract price, I'd be all for it. I suspect someone would claim him.

    4. Daisuke Matsuzaka. He's been injured and he's struggled, but he's also nearing free agency and occassionally shows flahes of talent. A change of scenery could benefit him and at this point he's only owed about $2 million in salary. Someone might be willing to pick him up for a September tryout.

    5. Aaron Cook. No team will give up prospects for a veteran replacement level pitcher. Some team might be willing to pick him up for the mere cost of his reasonable contract.

    There are other players worth shedding, however they retain some level of trade value, and therefore should be able to fetch compensation of varying degrees in return. These players include: Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Kelly Shoppach, Mike Aviles, Jacoby Ellsbury, Josh Beckett, and Alfredo Aceves. Realistically, some of those names will have to be moved in the off-season or during next year's trade deadline. Beckett seems to pitch extremely well in odd-numbered seasons for some odd reason (pun intended). It might behoove management to hold onto him a bit longer and maximize his trade value.

    I did not forget about John Lackey. It's just that he's so beyond worthless, no team would ever claim him off irrevocable waivers, or in a trade. The Red Sox are stuck with him no matter what, and just have to hope he somehow pitches decently for them when he returns from injury. At least with the other albatross contracts in Gonzalez and Crawford, there's the outside chance that a team would put in a claim because in both of those cases they're good players, just not at the level they're being paid. That's not true of Lackey.
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    I'd offer to pay $6M a year towards CC's deal and trade him for used bat.

    Dice-K has about $3.3M left to pay. I'd give $3M to any team looking to take a chance on him. We'd save $300K.

    Cody Ross will be a FA this winter. We still owe him $1M. I'd try to deal him for a nice prospect and to save the $1M, possibly putting us under the luxury cap.

    Iglesias: if we are not ever going to play the guy, we should deal him and save $670K this year and $2M next year.

    Cook and Padilla are owed $500K each. We could trade them on a waiver deal for a couple nice prospects and save $1M total.

    Trade Shoppach for a prospect and save about $400K.

    Trade Punto who is owed about $500K this year and $1.5M next year by offering to pay some of the cost. Return? A bag of balls.

    If some of these suggestions put us under the 2012 kuxury tax threshhold, then we should make it happen.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    In Response to Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!:
    [QUOTE]I'd offer to pay $6M a year towards CC's deal and trade him for used bat. Dice-K has about $3.3M left to pay. I'd give $3M to any team looking to take a chance on him. We'd save $300K. Cody Ross will be a FA this winter. We still owe him $1M. I'd try to deal him for a nice prospect and to save the $1M, possibly putting us under the luxury cap. Iglesias: if we are not ever going to play the guy, we should deal him and save $670K this year and $2M next year. Cook and Padilla are owed $500K each. We could trade them on a waiver deal for a couple nice prospects and save $1M total. Trade Shoppach for a prospect and save about $400K. Trade Punto who is owed about $500K this year and $1.5M next year by offering to pay some of the cost. Return? A bag of balls. If some of these suggestions put us under the 2012 kuxury tax threshhold, then we should make it happen.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]You'll come around on Carl Crawford moon.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    Pittsburg Pirates 2012 payroll-  $ 63,431,999    record 60-46
       Boston Red Sox                            $ 173,186,617   record 53-55

    Theo Epsteins work, brilliant.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from teilhardian. Show teilhardian's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    I think the Yanks would take Crawford in a heartbeat, even with his salary, assuming (not likely) that no other team would claim him first...The Yankee offense is moribund and unpredictable, and someone of Crawford's quality would be a significant upgrade over Ichiro...If that unlikely scenario ever transpired, the Red Sox would then have to pull him back for good...Then again, the more likely scenario is that a non-AL East team would make a claim on him and the Red Sox could try to work out a trade...Overall, I think the Red Sox would be foolish to let go of Crawford...Even with his injury, he is not playing that badly, and the upside is pretty good...The clean house and clear payroll at all costs mentality in here is potentially a foolhardy one, and is predicated on the notion that an endless string of phenoms are waiting in the minors...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    In Response to Irrevocable Waivers Please!:
    [QUOTE]The Red Sox would serve themselves well by clearing out some payroll to increase their future flexibility toward value acquisitions. Given that certain players on the team make too much money to be traded for anyone worthwhile, I suggest placing several players on irrevocable waivers, on the hope that a team will pluck the player (and his contract) off the roster. The following players should be placed on irrevocable waivers: 1. 1B Adrian Gonzalez. I know he's a good hitter. I'm not going to dispute that in the least. But he's not the $20+ million a year caliber hitter that he was for the San Diego Padres. The reality is that he's been underwhelming in Boston. The Red Sox didn't sign him with the expectation that he'd be an above average singles hitter. The Red Sox could likely find someone for one-third the price, maybe one-fourth, who would be roughly as productive. If there's a team out there willing to take a chance on Gonzalez (Baltimore? Seattle? Texas?), I would be content losing him for the salary relief alone. 2. LF Carl Crawford. He's looked decent in limited at-bats this year. I know he's a better player than he showed last year. It's not his fault that Theo Epstein vastly overpaid him. I realize that once healthy, a rebound to All-Star performance is not beyond the realm of possibility. That being said, his money could be better allocated elsewhere. I think this board would be close to unanimous in that assessment. The problem is that most other teams probably feel that way as well and wouldn't even consider claiming Crawford. Even so, it can't hurt to dangle him, hope for the best, and see what happens. Maybe some desperate team in a pennant race would be foolish enough to grab him (New York?) 3. Nick Punto. He's nothing special. While the money isn't exorbitant, he's a waste of a roster spot. If someone wants to add him for nothing more than his contract price, I'd be all for it. I suspect someone would claim him. 4. Daisuke Matsuzaka. He's been injured and he's struggled, but he's also nearing free agency and occassionally shows flahes of talent. A change of scenery could benefit him and at this point he's only owed about $2 million in salary. Someone might be willing to pick him up for a September tryout. 5. Aaron Cook. No team will give up prospects for a veteran replacement level pitcher. Some team might be willing to pick him up for the mere cost of his reasonable contract. There are other players worth shedding, however they retain some level of trade value, and therefore should be able to fetch compensation of varying degrees in return. These players include: Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Kelly Shoppach, Mike Aviles, Jacoby Ellsbury, Josh Beckett, and Alfredo Aceves. Realistically, some of those names will have to be moved in the off-season or during next year's trade deadline. Beckett seems to pitch extremely well in odd-numbered seasons for some odd reason (pun intended). It might behoove management to hold onto him a bit longer and maximize his trade value. I did not forget about John Lackey. It's just that he's so beyond worthless, no team would ever claim him off irrevocable waivers, or in a trade. The Red Sox are stuck with him no matter what, and just have to hope he somehow pitches decently for them when he returns from injury. At least with the other albatross contracts in Gonzalez and Crawford, there's the outside chance that a team would put in a claim because in both of those cases they're good players, just not at the level they're being paid. That's not true of Lackey.
    Posted by davidap[/QUOTE]

    this is garbage..how can anyone want agon off this team...i love agon...some of these players just don't care..fine those players..and try and get rid of them...and agon and crawford is not these players... 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    In Response to Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!:
    [QUOTE]Pittsburg Pirates 2012 payroll-  $ 63,431,999    record 60-46    Boston Red Sox                              $ 173,186,617   record 53-55 Theo Epsteins work, brilliant.
    Posted by sporter81[/QUOTE]

    Why not tally up records since 2003? 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rightymclefty. Show rightymclefty's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    "Agon and Crawford IS not these players"??????
    Am not true.
    Anyway, Gonzalez is projecting out to a 15 HR 90 RBI season. Mark Grace, for 22 million a season, for 8 years! Nice player, but not worth the money.
    I wish we were watching 22 year old Anthony Rizzo, develop, like Middlebrooks, instead of this dull as dishwater player, who blames the schedule and God, when the chips were down last September..
    Crawford? 31 year old speed guy, who spent too much time on turf at Tropicana. Lots of bad miles on those legs. No arm, little power. Sox don't play small ball anyway. Needs to go to the NL.
    His best days are well behind him.
    Power lasts longer than speed.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    In Response to Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!:
    [QUOTE]"Agon and Crawford IS not these players"?????? Am not true. Anyway, Gonzalez is projecting out to a 15 HR 90 RBI season. Mark Grace, for 22 million a season, for 8 years! Nice player, but not worth the money. I wish we were watching 22 year old Anthony Rizzo, develop, like Middlebrooks, instead of this dull as dishwater player, who blames the schedule and God, when the chips were down last September.. Crawford? 31 year old speed guy, who spent too much time on turf at Tropicana. Lots of bad miles on those legs. No arm, little power. Sox don't play small ball anyway. Needs to go to the NL. His best days are well behind him. Power lasts longer than speed.
    Posted by rightymclefty[/QUOTE]Whine whine whine, cry cry cry.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    In Response to Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!:
    [QUOTE]"Agon and Crawford IS not these players"?????? Am not true. Anyway, Gonzalez is projecting out to a 15 HR 90 RBI season. Mark Grace, for 22 million a season, for 8 years! Nice player, but not worth the money. I wish we were watching 22 year old Anthony Rizzo, develop, like Middlebrooks, instead of this dull as dishwater player, who blames the schedule and God, when the chips were down last September.. Crawford? 31 year old speed guy, who spent too much time on turf at Tropicana. Lots of bad miles on those legs. No arm, little power. Sox don't play small ball anyway. Needs to go to the NL. His best days are well behind him. Power lasts longer than speed.
    Posted by rightymclefty[/QUOTE]

    agon is in the 1st year of his contract...he is having a bad year in power..but i don't see this happening next year or the rest of his deal..look at his past years..it's just not him..and crawford..the guy is a worker..this is not his fault...some people just like to pick on players when the team is down...
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    In Response to Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please! : Whine whine whine, cry cry cry.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    exactly...i should have just said what you did...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyhJ69mD7xI
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    In Response to Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!:
    [QUOTE]"Agon and Crawford IS not these players"?????? Am not true. Anyway, Gonzalez is projecting out to a 15 HR 90 RBI season. Mark Grace, for 22 million a season, for 8 years! Nice player, but not worth the money. I wish we were watching 22 year old Anthony Rizzo, develop, like Middlebrooks, instead of this dull as dishwater player, who blames the schedule and God, when the chips were down last September.. Crawford? 31 year old speed guy, who spent too much time on turf at Tropicana. Lots of bad miles on those legs. No arm, little power. Sox don't play small ball anyway. Needs to go to the NL. His best days are well behind him. Power lasts longer than speed.
    Posted by rightymclefty[/QUOTE]

    Actually, its for one year.  Not eight years.  AGon has not put up Mark Grace numbers for 8 years.  You might be jumping the gun just a wee tad there, Chief. One bad season does not mean everything has changed.  In 2007, Manny Ramirez hit 20HR and 88RBI.  Was he also Mark Grace? 

    And don't criticize him for his religious beliefs and that he sticks to them. Try and be above that sort of low, slimey action. If he thanked God for a good season, would you also call him out for it?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    In Response to Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!:
    [QUOTE]"Agon and Crawford IS not these players"?????? Am not true. Anyway, Gonzalez is projecting out to a 15 HR 90 RBI season. Mark Grace, for 22 million a season, for 8 years! Nice player, but not worth the money. I wish we were watching 22 year old Anthony Rizzo, develop, like Middlebrooks, instead of this dull as dishwater player, who blames the schedule and God, when the chips were down last September.. Crawford? 31 year old speed guy, who spent too much time on turf at Tropicana. Lots of bad miles on those legs. No arm, little power. Sox don't play small ball anyway. Needs to go to the NL. His best days are well behind him. Power lasts longer than speed.
    Posted by rightymclefty[/QUOTE]

    Since AGon came to Boston, he has 37 HRs and 180 RBIs in 1041 PAs and 264 games. 

    Project this to 317 games and about 1250 PAs (2 seasons here) and then divide by 2:

    .294  22  108

    Mark Grace never had over 17 Hrs or 91 RBIs.
    His 162 game career average is 12 Hrs and 83 RBIs.

    (AGons career 162 game average is 30 Hrs and 102 RBIs.)

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    Funny how Theo saddled us wth AGon, and he ends up with Rizzo in Chicago.

    AGon sleepwalks through the game.  No one criticized him for his "religous beliefs" last year, but for the excuse-making.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    In Response to Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!:
    [QUOTE]Funny how Theo saddled us wth AGon, and he ends up with Rizzo in Chicago. AGon sleepwalks through the game.  No one criticized him for his "religous beliefs" last year, but for the excuse-making.
    Posted by Ergoetal[/QUOTE]So you llike Rizzo better than Gonzalez? Can we mark you down for a bet?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from never1954. Show never1954's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    unfortunately none of this will happen because the FO will not admit mistakes.  I think that we are going to have to ride out the storm.  What matters is not what is happening now because many predicted it but rather what the FO does this winter.  This team needs wholesale changes, hopefully the FO will wake up and smell some of the stuff they are so willing to shovel and do something positive.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    In Response to Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!:
    [QUOTE]Funny how Theo saddled us wth AGon, and he ends up with Rizzo in Chicago. AGon sleepwalks through the game.  No one criticized him for his "religous beliefs" last year, but for the excuse-making.
    Posted by Ergoetal[/QUOTE]

    Yeah imagine -- a GM who goes out and gets a 28-old first baseman who consistently hit 30-plus home runs with more than 100 RBIs in a non-hitters ballpark. Who would even think of doing that?

    And your religious knock is baseless. He didn't use it as excuse-making. He uses his faith to accept what happened and move on. That doesn't mean he liked the collapse or wasn't going to work hard to get better.

    Statements like yours shows your charachter, not his.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    In Response to Irrevocable Waivers Please!:
    [QUOTE]The Red Sox would serve themselves well by clearing out some payroll to increase their future flexibility toward value acquisitions. Given that certain players on the team make too much money to be traded for anyone worthwhile, I suggest placing several players on irrevocable waivers, on the hope that a team will pluck the player (and his contract) off the roster. The following players should be placed on irrevocable waivers: 1. 1B Adrian Gonzalez. I know he's a good hitter. I'm not going to dispute that in the least. But he's not the $20+ million a year caliber hitter that he was for the San Diego Padres. The reality is that he's been underwhelming in Boston. The Red Sox didn't sign him with the expectation that he'd be an above average singles hitter. The Red Sox could likely find someone for one-third the price, maybe one-fourth, who would be roughly as productive. If there's a team out there willing to take a chance on Gonzalez (Baltimore? Seattle? Texas?), I would be content losing him for the salary relief alone. 2. LF Carl Crawford. He's looked decent in limited at-bats this year. I know he's a better player than he showed last year. It's not his fault that Theo Epstein vastly overpaid him. I realize that once healthy, a rebound to All-Star performance is not beyond the realm of possibility. That being said, his money could be better allocated elsewhere. I think this board would be close to unanimous in that assessment. The problem is that most other teams probably feel that way as well and wouldn't even consider claiming Crawford. Even so, it can't hurt to dangle him, hope for the best, and see what happens. Maybe some desperate team in a pennant race would be foolish enough to grab him (New York?) 3. Nick Punto. He's nothing special. While the money isn't exorbitant, he's a waste of a roster spot. If someone wants to add him for nothing more than his contract price, I'd be all for it. I suspect someone would claim him. 4. Daisuke Matsuzaka. He's been injured and he's struggled, but he's also nearing free agency and occassionally shows flahes of talent. A change of scenery could benefit him and at this point he's only owed about $2 million in salary. Someone might be willing to pick him up for a September tryout. 5. Aaron Cook. No team will give up prospects for a veteran replacement level pitcher. Some team might be willing to pick him up for the mere cost of his reasonable contract. There are other players worth shedding, however they retain some level of trade value, and therefore should be able to fetch compensation of varying degrees in return. These players include: Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Kelly Shoppach, Mike Aviles, Jacoby Ellsbury, Josh Beckett, and Alfredo Aceves. Realistically, some of those names will have to be moved in the off-season or during next year's trade deadline. Beckett seems to pitch extremely well in odd-numbered seasons for some odd reason (pun intended). It might behoove management to hold onto him a bit longer and maximize his trade value. I did not forget about John Lackey. It's just that he's so beyond worthless, no team would ever claim him off irrevocable waivers, or in a trade. The Red Sox are stuck with him no matter what, and just have to hope he somehow pitches decently for them when he returns from injury. At least with the other albatross contracts in Gonzalez and Crawford, there's the outside chance that a team would put in a claim because in both of those cases they're good players, just not at the level they're being paid. That's not true of Lackey.
    Posted by davidap[/QUOTE]

    How could you say Crawford, Punto, DiceK and Lackey have any trade value? They have none.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    In Response to Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!:
    [QUOTE]I'd offer to pay $6M a year towards CC's deal and trade him for used bat. Dice-K has about $3.3M left to pay. I'd give $3M to any team looking to take a chance on him. We'd save $300K. Cody Ross will be a FA this winter. We still owe him $1M. I'd try to deal him for a nice prospect and to save the $1M, possibly putting us under the luxury cap. Iglesias: if we are not ever going to play the guy, we should deal him and save $670K this year and $2M next year. Cook and Padilla are owed $500K each. We could trade them on a waiver deal for a couple nice prospects and save $1M total. Trade Shoppach for a prospect and save about $400K. Trade Punto who is owed about $500K this year and $1.5M next year by offering to pay some of the cost. Return? A bag of balls. If some of these suggestions put us under the 2012 kuxury tax threshhold, then we should make it happen.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Nobody would give Crawford $14M per season, especially with the fact that he will probably be out until next June due to TJ surgery.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    In Response to Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please! : Why not tally up records since 2003? 
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    Because it is 2012. He is comparing the 2012 payrolls and the 2012 records.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!

    In Response to Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Irrevocable Waivers Please! : Because it is 2012. He is comparing the 2012 payrolls and the 2012 records.
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]

    Which is a remarkably short-sighted way to measure performance, is it not?

    Oh wait, short-sighted is your forte.  Sorry, forgot that...
     
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