Is 2013 the True "Bridge Year"?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Is 2013 the True "Bridge Year"?

    With help from some of these guys surely to occur by 2014, is 2013 going to be a bridge year, a highly competitive year, or somewhere inbetween?

    Bogaerts, Barnes, Bradley, Webster, de la Rosa

    Brentz, Cecchini, Swihart, Owens

    Ranaudo, Britton, de la Cruz, Shaw, & Sands

    Plus, the possible advancement from some of these guys: Lava, Doubront, Morales, Tazawa, Mortensen, Melancon, Bard, Iggy and others...

     

    A) Certainly 2013 is a bridge year.

    B) We may compete for a playoff slot in 2013, but are not serious contenders until 2014 and/or beyond.

    C) We can seriously compete in 2013, if a lot of things all come together at the same time, but we still have a better chance in 2014 and beyond.

    D) We have  a short window in 2013 with Ellsbury (FA in 2014) and maybe Papi (Getting older) to win, so make the push tahis winter.

    E) We will be strong contenders in 2013.

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    My choice is B.

    Trade the FAs to be for the best prospects we can get, and gear all moves towards filling key slots for 2014 and beyond. That's not to say, we are giving up on 2013. Many moves we make this wintercan & will improve our team for 2013 and 2014 and beyond, but just not to the point where I'd call us a top 4 contender.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    The quick answer IMO is no.

    There is a core of talent that was either injured or underperformed last year.

    The addition of a few players, good health, players playing to their norm, and a little luck from the BB Gods, we will have just as good a chance as any team to go deep into the playoffs.

    We dont have to make a decision of playing more for 2014 or going all in on 2013. We can build the team with winning it all in 2013 in mind, while also building for the future at the same time.

    There is NO NEED to overspend on certain FA to compete, ie; Grienke, Hamilton.

    We can make solid player signings/trades that would fit well on this team and give us the production needed for success in 2013 as well as the future.

    Stop gaps like Torii Hunter until players like Brentz and JBJ are ready, Possibly trading Ells for the right pieces, re-signing Papi and Ross, also some other possible moves that would immediately impact this team and set us up for future success as well...

    Theres no need for a bridge year. I understand you think we could have a better chance in 2014, but theres no reason, IMO and in a lot of fans opinion, that we cant compete for a championship in 2013.

    We had the players in 2011 and 2012 to win it all and yet we failed for more than one reason. In 2011 we were by far the best team in baseball for 4 months and didnt even make the playoffs. So really anything can happen. Themindset EVERY year should be to field a team that you believe can win a championship. With the resources this team has, we should be able to do that year in and year out.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    C. However, I am always open to A or B. It just depends on the trade market for Ellsbury and whether the short term high priced vets are obtainable. If they are not and a great deal for prospects could be made for Ells, I might change my mind and go with the bridge year strategy. I don't resign Papi in the circumstance though.

     

    With that being said, I think we can win it all. I think the 50 million that can easily be spent, will be spent and will be spent wisely. The bad luck, injuries and horrible chemistry will all be dramatically improved. Five wins with even normal luck, 10 wins with additions. And 15 wins, yes I said that, 15 wins with good solid health equals....30 more wins. That doesn't even mention chemistry. 100 wins is very possible. Almost logical.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    I hate it when Moon says things I don't like because I believe him. ;)

    Having said that, I hope we do make some moves to compete and possibly win next season, but I don't want anyone to panic and make bad moves to try to get there. Middlebrooks was doing great until injured, Papi was doing great until injured, Sweeney was really helping the team with his 1,000 doubles and great catches until injured and the list goes on, including Pedroia. We won't know where we stand until we see them all again.

    I'll add Lester, Buch and Dubrount as well. I also really want to see how Lacky does after his surgery.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    Lester was on pace for 25 wins in April

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Lester was on pace for 25 wins in April

    [/QUOTE]


    FTR I thought Lester had a bad year. It happens. I'd like to see what he does next season. Even Lincecum had a bad season.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    I just learned "Chilli" Davis was a Pawtucket hitting coach not too long ago.... where was I?

     

    Linecum was lights out in relief Game One WS

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    I think it probably is the true Bridge Year.  Theo was just a little ahead of the curve with that term.

    Lucchino won't come out and say this though, because he doesn't want to read another one of Shaughnessy's faux-outrage pieces. :-) 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    We still have an entire Hot Stove season in front of us...so the jury is out on a bridge year until Cherington can complete the roster for 2013.

    Lets just say the Sox retain Ortiz and Ross and acquire a Josh Johnson, Justin Morneau and Michael Morse and retained the current core of major league players would you still call it a bridge year then?

    I can't say this will happen, but it is possible.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    I hate it when Moon says things I don't like because I believe him. ;)

    Having said that, I hope we do make some moves to compete and possibly win next season, but I don't want anyone to panic and make bad moves to try to get there. Middlebrooks was doing great until injured, Papi was doing great until injured, Sweeney was really helping the team with his 1,000 doubles and great catches until injured and the list goes on, including Pedroia. We won't know where we stand until we see them all again.

    I'll add Lester, Buch and Dubrount as well. I also really want to see how Lacky does after his surgery.

    -kimsaythis

     

    C. However, I am always open to A or B. It just depends on the trade market for Ellsbury and whether the short term high priced vets are obtainable. If they are not and a great deal for prospects could be made for Ells, I might change my mind and go with the bridge year strategy. I don't resign Papi in the circumstance though.

     

    With that being said, I think we can win it all. I think the 50 million that can easily be spent, will be spent and will be spent wisely. The bad luck, injuries and horrible chemistry will all be dramatically improved. Five wins with even normal luck, 10 wins with additions. And 15 wins, yes I said that, 15 wins with good solid health equals....30 more wins. That doesn't even mention chemistry. 100 wins is very possible. Almost logical.

    -BMav

    If we spend between $50-100M, like we can, (not counting arb or pre-arb raises) and still stay under the luxury tax cap, we can have a decent season. We may even make the playoffs if a bunch of things all happen at once. I know once in the playoffs "anything can happen", but realistically, I seriously doubt we can gain enough strength to advance to the AL Championship game or win a ring. 

    I'm not giving up on 2013. My plans I have put forth all make us better in 2013 than we were in 2012, and perhaps even better than opening day 2012.

    The way I look at it is that in order for us to be a legitimate ring contender (and maybe we are arguing semantics here with teh word "legitimate"), we'd need to do too many drastic things. For instance, in order for me to view us as a top 4-6 "favorite", we'd have to do something like this:

    Sign: Greinke or Peavy or 2 of Sanchez, Jackson, or McCarthy.

    Sign: Hamilton or trade top prospects for J Upton.

    Sign: Papi or Napoli.

    Sign: Ross and another mid-range player or two (SS? 1B?).

    Keep Ellsbury (has a near 2011 type season) and get just a draft pick after he bolts in 2014.

    Hope and pray Lester & Pedey regain form, Buch & Bailey stay healthy, the pen repeats a decent season, and everyone  stays relatively healthy and at career norm production levels.

    I'm usually an optimistic guy, but I think even with all the above additions, which I am not for all of them, I see us as needing too much good to happen to consider ourselves a favorite.

    Last spring, I mentioned we would not seriously compete in 2012 without a major starting pitcher addition. I pointed out that Lester, Backett and Buch had never had fully healthy and productive seasons all at the same time and that counting on that to happen was unrealistic. As it turned out, not even 1 of them stayed healthy and oproductive all season long. Now, look to 2013. Doubront and morales might improve and help us, but they are not expected to put up the numbers Lester & Beckett have given us in recent selected seasons. The return of Lackey could be a pleasant surprise. Guys like Tazawa and Mortensen could continue to shine. Bard may bounce back in his familiar role. But, I seriously can not bring myself to reasonably expect these things to happen. I hope they all do. I will root for everyone. Individually, I can see it happening, but all together, or even most all happening- I just can not objectively see it.

    I want to improve in 2013 with an eye to 2014 and beyond. I'd be thrilled to be surprised in 2013, but my answer still remains "B", while my more optimistic side is hoping for "C". Maybe after a few bold moves, I may improve my outlook, but right now, this team is awful on paper for 2013 alone.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I hate it when Moon says things I don't like because I believe him. ;)

    Having said that, I hope we do make some moves to compete and possibly win next season, but I don't want anyone to panic and make bad moves to try to get there. Middlebrooks was doing great until injured, Papi was doing great until injured, Sweeney was really helping the team with his 1,000 doubles and great catches until injured and the list goes on, including Pedroia. We won't know where we stand until we see them all again.

    I'll add Lester, Buch and Dubrount as well. I also really want to see how Lacky does after his surgery.

    -kimsaythis

     

    C. However, I am always open to A or B. It just depends on the trade market for Ellsbury and whether the short term high priced vets are obtainable. If they are not and a great deal for prospects could be made for Ells, I might change my mind and go with the bridge year strategy. I don't resign Papi in the circumstance though.

     

    With that being said, I think we can win it all. I think the 50 million that can easily be spent, will be spent and will be spent wisely. The bad luck, injuries and horrible chemistry will all be dramatically improved. Five wins with even normal luck, 10 wins with additions. And 15 wins, yes I said that, 15 wins with good solid health equals....30 more wins. That doesn't even mention chemistry. 100 wins is very possible. Almost logical.

    -BMav

    If we spend between $50-100M, like we can, (not counting arb or pre-arb raises) and still stay under the luxury tax cap, we can have a decent season. We may even make the playoffs if a bunch of things all happen at once. I know once in the playoffs "anything can happen", but realistically, I seriously doubt we can gain enough strength to advance to the AL Championship game or win a ring. 

    I'm not giving up on 2013. My plans I have put forth all make us better in 2013 than we were in 2012, and perhaps even better than opening day 2012.

    The way I look at it is that in order for us to be a legitimate ring contender (and maybe we are arguing semantics here with teh word "legitimate"), we'd need to do too many drastic things. For instance, in order for me to view us as a top 4-6 "favorite", we'd have to do something like this:

    Sign: Greinke or Peavy or 2 of Sanchez, Jackson, or McCarthy.

    Sign: Hamilton or trade top prospects for J Upton.

    Sign: Papi or Napoli.

    Sign: Ross and another mid-range player or two (SS? 1B?).

    Keep Ellsbury (has a near 2011 type season) and get just a draft pick after he bolts in 2014.

    Hope and pray Lester & Pedey regain form, Buch & Bailey stay healthy, the pen repeats a decent season, and everyone  stays relatively healthy and at career norm production levels.

    I'm usually an optimistic guy, but I think even with all the above additions, which I am not for all of them, I see us as needing too much good to happen to consider ourselves a favorite.

    Last spring, I mentioned we would not seriously compete in 2012 without a major starting pitcher addition. I pointed out that Lester, Backett and Buch had never had fully healthy and productive seasons all at the same time and that counting on that to happen was unrealistic. As it turned out, not even 1 of them stayed healthy and oproductive all season long. Now, look to 2013. Doubront and morales might improve and help us, but they are not expected to put up the numbers Lester & Beckett have given us in recent selected seasons. The return of Lackey could be a pleasant surprise. Guys like Tazawa and Mortensen could continue to shine. Bard may bounce back in his familiar role. But, I seriously can not bring myself to reasonably expect these things to happen. I hope they all do. I will root for everyone. Individually, I can see it happening, but all together, or even most all happening- I just can not objectively see it.

    I want to improve in 2013 with an eye to 2014 and beyond. I'd be thrilled to be surprised in 2013, but my answer still remains "B", while my more optimistic side is hoping for "C". Maybe after a few bold moves, I may improve my outlook, but right now, this team is awful on paper for 2013 alone.

    [/QUOTE]


    Come on Moon, the World Series is not over yet, players have or haven't received qualifying offers to determine free agency and the free agency period hasn't opened yet.

    Technically the team is better than it was on the last day of the season since it added DeLaRosa and Sands to their roster. Not ground breaking mind you but a start.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    I see a "bridge year" as unwilling-to-contend year.  There shouldn't be a single bridge year in Red Sox. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I just learned "Chilli" Davis was a Pawtucket hitting coach not too long ago.... where was I?

     

    Linecum was lights out in relief Game One WS

    [/QUOTE]

    Chilli Davis is the hitting coach of the Oakland A's.  Peter Gammons said that he might also join the Red Sox.  

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    Id love to have davis on board

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    Come on Moon, the World Series is not over yet, players have or haven't received qualifying offers to determine free agency and the free agency period hasn't opened yet.

    Technically the team is better than it was on the last day of the season since it added DeLaRosa and Sands to their roster. Not ground breaking mind you but a start.

     

    I counted them as on the roster when the deal was made.

    Are you counting the fact that Papi, Ross, Pods and a few others will not be on the roster unless signed or extended?

    We have a horrible 2013 ML team on paper right now. I know we will make improvements, but there's too long a way to go to be serious contenders.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     For instance, in order for me to view us as a top 4-6 "favorite", we'd have to do something like this:

    Sign: Greinke or Peavy or 2 of Sanchez, Jackson, or McCarthy.

    Sign: Hamilton or trade top prospects for J Upton.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    So we basically need both Hamilton and Greinke to be a top 4-6 team?  According to pythagorean, we would have won 85 games with Baltimore's timeliness. Not adding anything except luck.

    On a sidenote, would not be very interested in trading a lot for Upton. His attitude, career BABIP of .335 and career road OPS of .731 all spook me, inspite of his 450 foot homers.

     

    Also thanks for the stats about catchers. on the other thread. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     For instance, in order for me to view us as a top 4-6 "favorite", we'd have to do something like this:

    Sign: Greinke or Peavy or 2 of Sanchez, Jackson, or McCarthy.

    Sign: Hamilton or trade top prospects for J Upton.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    So we basically need both Hamilton and Greinke to be a top 4-6 team?  According to pythagorean, we would have won 85 games with Baltimore's timeliness. Not adding anything except luck.

    On a sidenote, would not be very interested in trading a lot for Upton. His attitude, career BABIP of .335 and career road OPS of .731 all spook me, inspite of his 450 foot homers.

     

    Also thanks for the stats about catchers. on the other thread. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Out of Ellsbury, Pedroia, Ortiz & Middlebrooks (arguably our top 4 hitters on the roster right now), only Pedroia played more than half of a season due to injuries and Pedroia played WITH an injury for part of the season ( I'm aware Ortiz is technically not on the roster, but it's a formality at this point.)  Do you think if these guys are healthy, they will add a few more wins next year?  I realize Ellsbury could be traded, I just seriously doubt it. 

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    On a sidenote, would not be very interested in trading a lot for Upton. His attitude, career BABIP of .335 and career road OPS of .731 all spook me, inspite of his 450 foot homers.

     

    Remember, he plays a lot of road games in LAD, SD, and SF- all pitcher's parks, and for some reason he hits poorly in Colorado.

    I like the fact that his splits vs LHPs and RHPs are both over .807.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    I vote A minus. Probably a true bridge year which should, in fact, be used to plan for 2014, but if a lot of things come together perfectly we could compete for a playoff spot but not a ring.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE] 

    Remember, he plays a lot of road games in LAD, SD, and SF- all pitcher's parks, and for some reason he hits poorly in Colorado.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I looked to see if that tough road factor had killed the other long term Diamondbacks, Drew, Young, and Montero. They all seemed to handle the West coast OK. Here are their career road splits....

    Montero---.821
    Upton-----.731
    Drew------.730
    Young-----.719

     

    Arizona is an excellent place to hit. And Upton clearly likes to hit there. I am sure he would hit well in Fenway too. But there won't  be any Fenway bounce up for him. Considering the likely cost both in prospects aswell as money, I just don't like the idea of Upton being the "big trade". I see him as a very good young player with attitude issues. Not even an excellent player.Yet I feel the cost will be that of an excellent-great player without the attitude thing. I pass.

     

     

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to seannybboi's comment:

    I see a "bridge year" as unwilling-to-contend year.  There shouldn't be a single bridge year in Red Sox.

    That could be the recipe for a decade of disappointment.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We still have an entire Hot Stove season in front of us...so the jury is out on a bridge year until Cherington can complete the roster for 2013.

    Lets just say the Sox retain Ortiz and Ross and acquire a Josh Johnson, Justin Morneau and Michael Morse and retained the current core of major league players would you still call it a bridge year then?

    I can't say this will happen, but it is possible.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Yes it could happen but a lot would depend on Cherington's ability to function like a competent general manager---and that's the rub.  He hasn't shown any such capacity up to now.  He was taken in two trades, the Theo compensation farce, and some of his dumpster-diving signings were out and out disasters.  Risk averse and slow on the draw, he will have to be aggressive and pro-active and dive in with both feet if we are to make a recovery.  It has been over three weeks now since the season ended and in player personnel he hasn't done a da@n thing.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE] 

    Remember, he plays a lot of road games in LAD, SD, and SF- all pitcher's parks, and for some reason he hits poorly in Colorado.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I looked to see if that tough road factor had killed the other long term Diamondbacks, Drew, Young, and Montero. They all seemed to handle the West coast OK. Here are their career road splits....

    Montero---.821
    Upton-----.731
    Drew------.730
    Young-----.719

     

    Arizona is an excellent place to hit. And Upton clearly likes to hit there. I am sure he would hit well in Fenway too. But there won't  be any Fenway bounce up for him. Considering the likely cost both in prospects aswell as money, I just don't like the idea of Upton being the "big trade". I see him as a very good young player with attitude issues. Not even an excellent player.Yet I feel the cost will be that of an excellent-great player without the attitude thing. I pass.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Stay the ell away from the Uptons---both of them. They have worlds of talent but both are miserable attitudes that result in loafing, clubhouse problems, frequent benchings for disciplinary reasons, and gross underachievement.  Our team was berift in chemistry and clubhouse comaradarie; let's not make it even worse with two lazy clowns like the Uptons.  If we need outfielders, resign Ross and sign Hunter.  Good tough competitors and good clubhouse people......team players.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We still have an entire Hot Stove season in front of us...so the jury is out on a bridge year until Cherington can complete the roster for 2013.

    Lets just say the Sox retain Ortiz and Ross and acquire a Josh Johnson, Justin Morneau and Michael Morse and retained the current core of major league players would you still call it a bridge year then?

    I can't say this will happen, but it is possible.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Yes it could happen but a lot would depend on Cherington's ability to function like a competent general manager---and that's the rub.  He hasn't shown any such capacity up to now.  He was taken in two trades, the Theo compensation farce, and some of his dumpster-diving signings were out and out disasters.  Risk averse and slow on the draw, he will have to be aggressive and pro-active and dive in with both feet if we are to make a recovery.  It has been over three weeks now since the season ended and in player personnel he hasn't done a da@n thing.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Why, because no one has been signed? fired a manager, hired one and reportedly is working on resigning Ortiz and Ross, which he said at season end were his priorities. Seriously fred, did Ben steal your girlfriend;)?

     
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