Is 2013 the True "Bridge Year"?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

     

    Recap, both the Rays and A's need a catcher.  

    Boston can use Lav as a trading chip.  

    If the Red Sox can use Lav and another top prospect or two to get either Shields or Anderson then I will be a very happy man.   

    No need for the Red Sox to spend millions in the free agent market for a top starter.  

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    I would hate to throw in Tazawa.  But I understand that when it comes to trades, we have to give up quality to get quality.  

    Oakland's bullpen seems fine.  So instead of Tazawa, do you think the Red Sox can add a top hitting prospect?  

     

    I think Taz can start next year.

    I think the A's would like to better connect to the Asian market.

    We don't really have a ML ready "top hitting prospects" in positions the A's need.

     

    Maybe they'd take...

    Lava & Ellsbury + $4M

    or

    Lava, Iggy, Nava & Britton

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

    Recap, both the Rays and A's need a catcher. Boston can use Lav as a trading chip. If the Red Sox can use Lav and another top prospect or two to get either Shields or Anderson then I will be a very happy man. No need for the Red Sox to spend millions in the free agent market for a top starter.


    The Oakland Athletics have regarded catchers in 23-year-old Derek Norris and 29-year-old George Kottaras, so unproven 25-year-old Ryan Lavarnway would likely be of little interest.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I would hate to throw in Tazawa.  But I understand that when it comes to trades, we have to give up quality to get quality.  

    Oakland's bullpen seems fine.  So instead of Tazawa, do you think the Red Sox can add a top hitting prospect?  

     

    I think Taz can start next year.

    I think the A's would like to better connect to the Asian market.

    We don't really have a ML ready "top hitting prospects" in positions the A's need.

     

    Maybe they'd take...

    Lava & Ellsbury + $4M

    or

    Lava, Iggy, Nava & Britton

     



    As of now, Oakland has Crisp (whom I think the A's will trade), Reddick, Cespedes, and Curt Young who they just got from the D-backs.

    I think the A's have a surplus of starting pitchers whom they can afford to trade (or cannot afford to keep down the road LOL). 

    I hope the Red Sox get both McCarthy (via free agency) and Anderson (via trade). 

     

     

     

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

    Recap, both the Rays and A's need a catcher. Boston can use Lav as a trading chip. If the Red Sox can use Lav and another top prospect or two to get either Shields or Anderson then I will be a very happy man. No need for the Red Sox to spend millions in the free agent market for a top starter.



    The Oakland Athletics have regarded catchers in 23-year-old Derek Norris and 29-year-old George Kottaras, so unproven 25-year-old Ryan Lavarnway would likely be of little interest.

     




    Looking at those two, it looks like the A's are set with their catching situation. 

    I read somewhere (I think it was in MLB.com) that the A's are looking for a catcher. 

    Anyway, I hope the Red Sox keep in touch with the A's for a possible trade with their starting pitchers.  I do not want the Red Sox to throw millions of dollars and several years at a free agent pitcher. 

     

     

     

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

    Recap, both the Rays and A's need a catcher. Boston can use Lav as a trading chip. If the Red Sox can use Lav and another top prospect or two to get either Shields or Anderson then I will be a very happy man. No need for the Red Sox to spend millions in the free agent market for a top starter.



    The Oakland Athletics have regarded catchers in 23-year-old Derek Norris and 29-year-old George Kottaras, so unproven 25-year-old Ryan Lavarnway would likely be of little interest.

     




    Looking at those two, it looks like the A's are set with their catching situation. 

    I read somewhere (I think it was in MLB.com) that the A's are looking for a catcher. 

    Anyway, I hope the Red Sox keep in touch with the A's for a possible trade with their starting pitchers.  I do not want the Red Sox to throw millions of dollars and several years at a free agent pitcher. 

     

     

     

     

     




     

    The A's also need a SS. We have several far-away SS prospects and Iggy, Ciriaco & Bogaerts... hmmm....

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

    Recap, both the Rays and A's need a catcher. Boston can use Lav as a trading chip. If the Red Sox can use Lav and another top prospect or two to get either Shields or Anderson then I will be a very happy man. No need for the Red Sox to spend millions in the free agent market for a top starter.



    The Oakland Athletics have regarded catchers in 23-year-old Derek Norris and 29-year-old George Kottaras, so unproven 25-year-old Ryan Lavarnway would likely be of little interest.

     




    Looking at those two, it looks like the A's are set with their catching situation. 

    I read somewhere (I think it was in MLB.com) that the A's are looking for a catcher. 

    Anyway, I hope the Red Sox keep in touch with the A's for a possible trade with their starting pitchers.  I do not want the Red Sox to throw millions of dollars and several years at a free agent pitcher. 

     

     

     

     

     




     

    The A's also need a SS. We have several far-away SS prospects and Iggy, Ciriaco & Bogaerts... hmmm....




    Deven Marrero might be of interest to them as well. I know they have a good catching prospect already. Not very familiar with their farm so I would have to look at it more closely to see their needs and what we could offer them that they would have an interest in. I would NOT put Bogaerts in any trade.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

     

     

    The A's declined their option on Drew so they need a SS.  

    Billy Beane and Cherington need to meet up, grab a beer, and work out a trade that helps both clubs.  LOL

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

    Recap, both the Rays and A's need a catcher. Boston can use Lav as a trading chip. If the Red Sox can use Lav and another top prospect or two to get either Shields or Anderson then I will be a very happy man. No need for the Red Sox to spend millions in the free agent market for a top starter.



    The Oakland Athletics have regarded catchers in 23-year-old Derek Norris and 29-year-old George Kottaras, so unproven 25-year-old Ryan Lavarnway would likely be of little interest.

     




    Looking at those two, it looks like the A's are set with their catching situation. 

    I read somewhere (I think it was in MLB.com) that the A's are looking for a catcher. 

    Anyway, I hope the Red Sox keep in touch with the A's for a possible trade with their starting pitchers.  I do not want the Red Sox to throw millions of dollars and several years at a free agent pitcher. 

     

     

     

     

     




     

    The A's also need a SS. We have several far-away SS prospects and Iggy, Ciriaco & Bogaerts... hmmm....




    Deven Marrero might be of interest to them as well. I know they have a good catching prospect already. Not very familiar with their farm so I would have to look at it more closely to see their needs and what we could offer them that they would have an interest in. I would NOT put Bogaerts in any trade.



    Can we trade such a recent draft pick as Marrero, or did they change that rule?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

    Recap, both the Rays and A's need a catcher. Boston can use Lav as a trading chip. If the Red Sox can use Lav and another top prospect or two to get either Shields or Anderson then I will be a very happy man. No need for the Red Sox to spend millions in the free agent market for a top starter.



    The Oakland Athletics have regarded catchers in 23-year-old Derek Norris and 29-year-old George Kottaras, so unproven 25-year-old Ryan Lavarnway would likely be of little interest.

     




    Looking at those two, it looks like the A's are set with their catching situation. 

    I read somewhere (I think it was in MLB.com) that the A's are looking for a catcher. 

    Anyway, I hope the Red Sox keep in touch with the A's for a possible trade with their starting pitchers.  I do not want the Red Sox to throw millions of dollars and several years at a free agent pitcher. 

     

     

     

     

     




     

    The A's also need a SS. We have several far-away SS prospects and Iggy, Ciriaco & Bogaerts... hmmm....




    Deven Marrero might be of interest to them as well. I know they have a good catching prospect already. Not very familiar with their farm so I would have to look at it more closely to see their needs and what we could offer them that they would have an interest in. I would NOT put Bogaerts in any trade.



    Can we trade such a recent draft pick as Marrero, or did they change that rule?




    I believe it has to be at least 6 months. We could make a trade with him involved as the PTBNL. He wouldnt be playing this year anyway, so waiting a few months would probably be Ok...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    I thought it was 12 months.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

    We still have an entire Hot Stove season in front of us...so the jury is out on a bridge year until Cherington can complete the roster for 2013.

    Lets just say the Sox retain Ortiz and Ross and acquire a Josh Johnson, Justin Morneau and Michael Morse and retained the current core of major league players would you still call it a bridge year then?

    I can't say this will happen, but it is possible.

     




    Yes it could happen but a lot would depend on Cherington's ability to function like a competent general manager---and that's the rub.  He hasn't shown any such capacity up to now.  He was taken in two trades, the Theo compensation farce, and some of his dumpster-diving signings were out and out disasters.  Risk averse and slow on the draw, he will have to be aggressive and pro-active and dive in with both feet if we are to make a recovery.  It has been over three weeks now since the season ended and in player personnel he hasn't done a da@n thing.

     




     because no one has been signed? fired a manager, hired one and reportedly is working on resigning Ortiz and Ross, which he said at season end were his priorities. Seriously fred, did Ben steal your girlfriend??




    Not quite JBay.  Been happily married to the same girl for 42 years, two months and 26 days.  But you are right about one thing---I think Cherington is incompetent and in over his head.  OK, you will get my mea culpa in short order if he does his job well this winter in that he gets us some of the reinforcements we need.  I just have deep doubts that he will do that, and if you want to take a gentlemen's bet, I say he blows the signing of Cody Ross.

     



    Fred so far you are right on the Cody Ross signing---what are other predictions we can cite you for?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I thought it was 12 months.



    I think it's 12 also---Tazawa is one player I wouldn't trade unless you were talking Cespedes and Anderson. The kid is destined to be the Sox best pitcher perhapsas soon as 2013. I would trade unproven Prospects long before Taz.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I thought it was 12 months.




    Yes, it is within the last year. But if a trade were to be made in January, he could be a PTBNL in the deal. A PTBNL has to be announced within 6 months, which would be sometime in June when the MLB draft is and the 1 year would then be complete and he would be available to be traded.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    The more I think about it, the more I think the A's will insist on more... probably Bogaerts, Britton & Lava or Brentz, Lava, Cecchini and Tazawa.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    Beane is one of the best, if not the best ,  GMs in the business.  Ben C  is an apprentice, trying to find his way.  In any deal between these two GMs, who do you suppose will get the better of it ?  Do we want to see a repeat of the Reddick / Bailey swindle ?  Do we want to trade Tazawa , who has the best stuff of anyone on our staff, then act surprised and defensive when he excels in Oakland ?  Many of the trade proposals on this forum are either unrealistic or downright dumb.  Cherington is still learning the ropes.  The chances are that he will be fleeced when dealing with an experienced guy like Beane.  Why not stop with some of these pie in the sky, pipe dream trade proposals, and use some common sense ?  The Sox future depends on an improvement in our scouting and player development, and a wise use of the domestic and foreign free agent markets. Trying to improve via the trade route runs the risk of becoming worse .  Other teams are not in the business of helping the Sox to improve.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Beane is one of the best, if not the best ,  GMs in the business.  Ben C  is an apprentice, trying to find his way.  In any deal between these two GMs, who do you suppose will get the better of it ?  Do we want to see a repeat of the Reddick / Bailey swindle ?  Do we want to trade Tazawa , who has the best stuff of anyone on our staff, then act surprised and defensive when he excels in Oakland ?  Many of the trade proposals on this forum are either unrealistic or downright dumb.  Cherington is still learning the ropes.  The chances are that he will be fleeced when dealing with an experienced guy like Beane.  Why not stop with some of these pie in the sky, pipe dream trade proposals, and use some common sense ?  The Sox future depends on an improvement in our scouting and player development, and a wise use of the domestic and foreign free agent markets. Trying to improve via the trade route runs the risk of becoming worse .  Other teams are not in the business of helping the Sox to improve.  




    I still cant believe folks here think BC is so green. Hes been here for 14 years and has worked throughout the whole organization. Sure its his 2nd year as GM, but to talk as if he hasnt a clue just because you dont understand or disagree with some of his moves doesnt mean hes been taken advantage of or doesnt know what hes doing.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    Signing Papi certainly is a sign that Ben may look to be bold enough to try and compete in 2013. We'll see.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Signing Papi certainly is a sign that Ben may look to be bold enough to try and compete in 2013. We'll see.




    Im sure this teams goal is to be competitive in 2013. Signing papi was the 1st move towards that goal. Now, what moves come next will be very telling.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    I think the team goal is to appear to be competitive in 2013, but with a strong eye to 2014 and beyond as the real prize.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    Roster moves needed by Nov 19th to make room for Rule 5 eligible players.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I think the team goal is to appear to be competitive in 2013, but with a strong eye to 2014 and beyond as the real prize.




    I think with the right moves things can happen this year. Not sure why you see looking to 2014 is better Moon. I dont count on young players dominating their first year more than some seasoned vets. Lost of adjustments to make in year one for them. its a cat and mouse game most of the year. We could see than with WMB this year before the injury.

    Sure some should do well, but I think the team has a better chance with a good mix of solid veteran presence and young players than mostly prospects making their debut, like they will/should have this year. In 2014 guys like Brentz, Bradley, Webster, Rubby D, Wilson, Bogaerts, Britton, Workman, and Pimentel, provided their still here, all have a chance to be on the team. Thats a lot of kids.

    Bottom line id if the pitching doesnt do well, this team will not do well.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    I think the team goal is to appear to be competitive in 2013, but with a strong eye to 2014 and beyond as the real prize.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think with the right moves things can happen this year. Not sure why you see looking to 2014 is better Moon. I dont count on young players dominating their first year more than some seasoned vets. Lost of adjustments to make in year one for them. its a cat and mouse game most of the year. We could see than with WMB this year before the injury.

     

    I think I have laid out my reasons specifically, but here is a summary:

    1) We are currently, as our roster is right now, so very very far away from being a serious competitor in 2013.

    2) This is a weak FA class, and the best players are not good fits for us. Thus, I think rebuilding to a serious competitive status will take 2+ free agent cycles.

    3) We can begin the rebuilding process in earnest this winter, but I don't see us getting all the way there in so short of a time.

    4) I don't buy the "if we can only stay healthy" argument anymore. I don't buy the "if Lester, Lackey, Pedey, and... return to form" argument anymore. They both may happen, and that would be great, but I am not planning on it.

    5) I think our kids are really going to surprise us, and I think our kids will also allow us to pick up some fine players by trading a few of them. I remember 1975, and I think our top prospects show great promise. I'm not saying Bradley & Brentz will be the next Rice & Lynn, but I really think there are 7-11 good prospects with a nice chance to contribute by 2014 or 2015. Not all will, but I think it is realistic that 3-5 will.

    6) We have some young ML experienced players & post prospects that should be peaking by 2014-2015. We don't have many older players that their declines will harm us that much. I see our trajectory looking better in 2014-2015 than 2013. This could change with some radical signings or trades, but I think we will only make a few moderate trades to improve us going forward.

    Age in 2014:

    38 Papi, Atchison

    35 Lackey

    31 Aceves

    30 Pedey, Lester, Bailey

    29 Buch, Bard, Miller, Melancon, Mortensen

    28 Tazawa, Morales

    26 Doubront, Lava, Kalish

    The only meaningful player here with expected age decline is Papi.

     

     

    Sure some should do well, but I think the team has a better chance with a good mix of solid veteran presence and young players than mostly prospects making their debut, like they will/should have this year. In 2014 guys like Brentz, Bradley, Webster, Rubby D, Wilson, Bogaerts, Britton, Workman, and Pimentel, provided their still here, all have a chance to be on the team. Thats a lot of kids.

    Bottom line id if the pitching doesnt do well, this team will not do well.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I think the team goal is to appear to be competitive in 2013, but with a strong eye to 2014 and beyond as the real prize.




    I think with the right moves things can happen this year. Not sure why you see looking to 2014 is better Moon. I dont count on young players dominating their first year more than some seasoned vets. Lost of adjustments to make in year one for them. its a cat and mouse game most of the year. We could see than with WMB this year before the injury.

     

    I think I have laid out my reasons specifically, but here is a summary:

    1) We are currently, as our roster is right now, so very very far away from being a serious competitor in 2013.

    2) This is a weak FA class, and the best players are not good fits for us. Thus, I think rebuilding to a serious competitive status will take 2+ free agent cycles.

    3) We can begin the rebuilding process in earnest this winter, but I don't see us getting all the way there in so short of a time.

    4) I don't buy the "if we can only stay healthy" argument anymore. I don't buy the "if Lester, Lackey, Pedey, and... return to form" argument anymore. They both may happen, and that would be great, but I am not planning on it.

    5) I think our kids are really going to surprise us, and I think our kids will also allow us to pick up some fine players by trading a few of them. I remember 1975, and I think our top prospects show great promise. I'm not saying Bradley & Brentz will be the next Rice & Lynn, but I really think there are 7-11 good prospects with a nice chance to contribute by 2014 or 2015. Not all will, but I think it is realistic that 3-5 will.

    6) We have some young ML experienced players & post prospects that should be peaking by 2014-2015. We don't have many older players that their declines will harm us that much. I see our trajectory looking better in 2014-2015 than 2013. This could change with some radical signings or trades, but I think we will only make a few moderate trades to improve us going forward.

    Age in 2014:

    38 Papi, Atchison

    35 Lackey

    31 Aceves

    30 Pedey, Lester, Bailey

    29 Buch, Bard, Miller, Melancon, Mortensen

    28 Tazawa, Morales

    26 Doubront, Lava, Kalish

    The only meaningful player here with expected age decline is Papi.

     

     

    Sure some should do well, but I think the team has a better chance with a good mix of solid veteran presence and young players than mostly prospects making their debut, like they will/should have this year. In 2014 guys like Brentz, Bradley, Webster, Rubby D, Wilson, Bogaerts, Britton, Workman, and Pimentel, provided their still here, all have a chance to be on the team. Thats a lot of kids.

    Bottom line id if the pitching doesnt do well, this team will not do well.




    Ok, so your relying a lot on our prospects. Thats what I though.

    I like your optimism Moon, and can agree to a point that I too think our "kids" will do well. Im just not as confident that they will all do so well that 2014 we will be better because of them. I think, like this coming year (2013) a good mix of solid vets mixed in with the prospects will result in a better record.

    We both do agree that we have some potentially very solid prospects in the upper levels of the system that have a good chance of playing at a high on the big stage withing the next couple years. That, is something we can get excited about.

     

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is 2013 the True

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I think the team goal is to appear to be competitive in 2013, but with a strong eye to 2014 and beyond as the real prize.




    I think with the right moves things can happen this year. Not sure why you see looking to 2014 is better Moon. I dont count on young players dominating their first year more than some seasoned vets. Lost of adjustments to make in year one for them. its a cat and mouse game most of the year. We could see than with WMB this year before the injury.

     

    I think I have laid out my reasons specifically, but here is a summary:

    1) We are currently, as our roster is right now, so very very far away from being a serious competitor in 2013.

    2) This is a weak FA class, and the best players are not good fits for us. Thus, I think rebuilding to a serious competitive status will take 2+ free agent cycles.

    3) We can begin the rebuilding process in earnest this winter, but I don't see us getting all the way there in so short of a time.

    4) I don't buy the "if we can only stay healthy" argument anymore. I don't buy the "if Lester, Lackey, Pedey, and... return to form" argument anymore. They both may happen, and that would be great, but I am not planning on it.

    5) I think our kids are really going to surprise us, and I think our kids will also allow us to pick up some fine players by trading a few of them. I remember 1975, and I think our top prospects show great promise. I'm not saying Bradley & Brentz will be the next Rice & Lynn, but I really think there are 7-11 good prospects with a nice chance to contribute by 2014 or 2015. Not all will, but I think it is realistic that 3-5 will.

    6) We have some young ML experienced players & post prospects that should be peaking by 2014-2015. We don't have many older players that their declines will harm us that much. I see our trajectory looking better in 2014-2015 than 2013. This could change with some radical signings or trades, but I think we will only make a few moderate trades to improve us going forward.

    Age in 2014:

    38 Papi, Atchison

    35 Lackey

    31 Aceves

    30 Pedey, Lester, Bailey

    29 Buch, Bard, Miller, Melancon, Mortensen

    28 Tazawa, Morales

    26 Doubront, Lava, Kalish

    The only meaningful player here with expected age decline is Papi.

     

     

    Sure some should do well, but I think the team has a better chance with a good mix of solid veteran presence and young players than mostly prospects making their debut, like they will/should have this year. In 2014 guys like Brentz, Bradley, Webster, Rubby D, Wilson, Bogaerts, Britton, Workman, and Pimentel, provided their still here, all have a chance to be on the team. Thats a lot of kids.

    Bottom line id if the pitching doesnt do well, this team will not do well.




    Ok, so your relying a lot on our prospects. Thats what I though.

    I like your optimism Moon, and can agree to a point that I too think our "kids" will do well. Im just not as confident that they will all do so well that 2014 we will be better because of them. I think, like this coming year (2013) a good mix of solid vets mixed in with the prospects will result in a better record.

    We both do agree that we have some potentially very solid prospects in the upper levels of the system that have a good chance of playing at a high on the big stage withing the next couple years. That, is something we can get excited about.

     



    I'm counting on 3-4 kids helping in meaningful ways, but not necessarily leading us to a ring. I am counting on a couple major trades this winter and a couple decent signings that will set us up for another couple nice moves next winter. The kids will compliment what we already have and what we pick up between now and then.

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