Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    In Response to Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?:
    [QUOTE]I am sure that Tex would have been a great fit here if he had wanted to be here. Agon will have an outstanding career with the Sox. Either player would have done very well here.
    Posted by jrh1194[/QUOTE]

    Agreed !   Teixeira didn't want to play in Boston.  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from promise4you. Show promise4you's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira? : Not me. You must be thinking of someone else.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, it's boomer, darn memory!
     
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    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    In Response to Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?:
    [QUOTE]Very insightful post the_yazzer. So who do you like better, Teix or Gonzo?
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    let me use an analogy here. it's probably happened to a lot of us.

    a few years ago i spent a good money on a 50" HD TV.  along comes 3D HDTV, but i'm stuck with my fairly new plain HD which is still pretty darn good. however, i'd prefer the 3D model.

    in other words, sometimes it's better to wait even if it wasn't your original  idea to do so. it worked that way for the SOX.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

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    [QUOTE]Texiera would have been playing in Boston for those years, instead of the Yankees. Tex with Youk and Bay could have made a big difference in 2009. I love people trashing him, because the Sox got Gonzalez. As I said in another thread, look at both player's career stats. Not close at all. Plus, Texiera may be the best fielding 1st baseman ever.
    Posted by tbrod[/QUOTE]

    Not sure which one you mean that career  numbers aren't even close, but almost everyone knows the difference in the ball parks the two played in.

    Petco Park simply s ucks the life out of hitters, but A-Gon was still rather significant.

    Tex played in Texas, Atlanta and NY .... three hitters parks ...

        Now that Adrian is out of the tomb in San Diego, the world is seeing what he can do.

        So, if you're gonna compare, compare the whole "pitcher" ....


      
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    I would have taken Gonzo over Tex anytime.   Gonzo has found his home.   Tex also found his, it worked out great for both teams. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mfymfy. Show mfymfy's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?


    Of course, if Teixeira had come to Boston we might have had a better shot in 2009 and/or 2010.

    2009 ok but the play of Beltre/ Youk last year was elite.

    Using this years stats to justify a career is just fraud.

    The OP is about 2009 to present.

    Teix OBP   Road OPS   LD%   Pop-up%

    11 .352   .822      16.8      14.2
    10 .365   .728      19.0      13.6
    09 .383   .882      19.8       9.6
    08 .410   .900      20.7       7.9
    07 .400   .970      19.8        8.9



    Zone ratings are a joke, only enjoyed by stat geeks and Theo lovers.
    You know, the ones that say Ellsbury is a terrible CF? 

    Two metrics have the Sox D as 1st or 3rd in MLB, Theo and his damn attention to stats!

    Career UZR/150 has Teix (5) and Ells in CF (3.9) as about equal as fielders. I am sure Royals fans love their anti-UZR GM signing Bettencourt, et al.....


    God forbid, we actually go by what we see. Must be why Tex is on the fielding highlight seemingly every night, and why pitchers he plays with love him.     

    This is a joke, right?  ---tom-uk
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Both terrific first basemen at the top of their game. Very satisfying for both teams. But can't ignore the huge price the Sox paid in prospects on top of the big contract while NY gave up no one. That will never equalize.

    Tom, as for the usual metrics diarrhea, please  put down the freakin' mouse and watch some baseball.
               
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    In Response to Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?:
    [QUOTE]Knowing what I know now, yeah I'd take AGon, I have always liked him.  But the Sox could have Tex, plus the 3 prospects they shipped for AGon...including Casey Kelly.  So if the Sox had Tex, plus those young tradeable prospects, we'd all be happy. Posted by jarretfromportsmouth[/QUOTE]

    Good point about Teixeira costing 'only' money and Gonzalez costing some prospects in addition to the cash.

    I was not the least bit happy when the Teixeira signed with the Yankees.  I was really hoping that the Red Sox would get him, and Teixeira and the Yanks going on to win the WS didn't help matters  (more due to their pitching acquisitions, IMO, but painful nevertheless). 

    That said, having watched what Gonzalez has done so far this season, I would not go back in time and take Teixeira in lieu of Gonzalez.  I fully admit that my bias likely plays a large part in that decision.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

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    [QUOTE]Of course, if Teixeira had come to Boston we might have had a better shot in 2009 and/or 2010. 2009 ok but the play of Beltre/ Youk last year was elite. Using this years stats to justify a career is just fraud. The OP is about 2009 to present. Teix OBP   Road OPS   LD%   Pop-up% 11 .352   .822      16.8      14.2 10 .365   .728      19.0      13.6 09 .383   .882      19.8       9.6 08 .410   .900      20.7       7.9 07 .400   .970      19.8        8.9 Zone ratings are a joke, only enjoyed by stat geeks and Theo lovers. You know, the ones that say Ellsbury is a terrible CF?  Two metrics have the Sox D as 1st or 3rd in MLB , Theo and his damn attention to stats ! Career UZR/150 has Teix (5) and Ells in CF (3.9) as about equal as fielders. I am sure Royals fans love their anti-UZR GM signing Bettencourt, et al..... God forbid, we actually go by what we see. Must be why Tex is on the fielding highlight seemingly every night, and why pitchers he plays with love him.      This is a joke , right ?  ---tom-uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Both terrific first basemen at the top of their game. Very satisfying for both teams. But can't ignore the huge price the Sox paid in prospects on top of the big contract while NY gave up no one. That will never equalize. Tom, as for the usual metrics diarrhea, please  put down the freakin' mouse and watch some baseball.            
    Posted by mfymfy[/QUOTE]The only guy that really cost the Sox was Kelly, who is still at AA. Rizzo vs. Gonzo, I'll take Gonzo every time. Rey Fuentes is currently blocked by Ellsbury who is emerging into an elite MLB leadoff hitter. A lot of people are kvetching about his agent, but it's not like the Sox have never signed a Boras client before. Also with Anthony Ranaudo in the fold, Kelly was somewhat expendable. AG has a chance to be one of the most special hitters who has ever worn the home whites. I think he has a chance to join Teddy Ballgame and Yaz in the Red Sox pantheon.
     
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    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

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    [QUOTE] God forbid, we actually go by what we see. Posted by tbrod[/QUOTE]

    The problem with what we see is that we can't possibly see it all.  You want to make a claim that Teixeira may be the best fielding 1B ever based on what you see?  How can you possibly know that without having seen every other first baseman play every game?

    If you watch Teixeira play every game, and you want to claim that he is a great defender based on what you've seen, I have no problem with that.

    If you want to make a claim that Teixeira is even the best first basemen in the AL this year based on what you've seen, I'm going to have to call BS on that, unless you can tell me that you've watched every other first basemen in the league play all of their games as well.  Otherwise, you have no basis for comparison.

    That's why the stats are needed.  The defensive stats are not perfect by any means, but they are a far better tool for assessing and comparing players than any fan's opinion (probably largely biased) based on what they see.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

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    [QUOTE]There was a lot of teeth grinding and wailing in RSN when Mark Teixeira spurned the Red Sox for the Yankees, but from today's perspective it looks like the best thing that could have happened. I mean getting Teix means no Gonzo, and Gonzo could be one of the best hitters I've ever seen on the Red Sox, and I've been a Red Sox fan for quite a while. Personally I couldn't be more thrilled with the way things turned out regarding 1B.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    I was initially in favor of getting Tex for a lot of obvious reasons including his SH ability.  The last two seasons his OBP and BA have really nosed dived which isn't a good sign at his age.  It looks like Tex concentrates more when he has runners to bring home.  Strange but that's my observation
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mfymfy. Show mfymfy's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    The only guy that really cost the Sox was Kelly, who is still at AA. Rizzo vs. Gonzo, I'll take Gonzo every time. Rey Fuentes is currently blocked by Ellsbury who is emerging into an elite MLB leadoff hitter. A lot of people are kvetching about his agent, but it's not like the Sox have never signed a Boras client before. Also with Anthony Ranaudo in the fold, Kelly was somewhat expendable.---carnie
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Those prospects are assets to be kept, to be dealt for a need, etc. Even if they were blocked, the Sox had to give away important assets and the ability to leverage them for something else. Impossible to quantify what the cost really was for A Gon.

    If getting Tex would have also cost Montero or Romine and Betances or Banuelos plus Nunez, he'd still be a great player but the cost would be enormous. As it stands, Tex and A Gon are like bookends, but Tex came far cheaper for the Yanks.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    No Teixeira?

    summerof67 does the happy dance.




     
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    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    In Response to Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?:
    [QUOTE]The only guy that really cost the Sox was Kelly, who is still at AA. Rizzo vs. Gonzo, I'll take Gonzo every time. Rey Fuentes is currently blocked by Ellsbury who is emerging into an elite MLB leadoff hitter. A lot of people are kvetching about his agent, but it's not like the Sox have never signed a Boras client before. Also with Anthony Ranaudo in the fold, Kelly was somewhat expendable.---carnie ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Those prospects are assets to be kept, to be dealt for a need, etc.
    Posted by mfymfy[/QUOTE]Agreed. And the Sox really needed a middle of the order bat. Gonzo has been all that, and I'm going to enjoy watching him in a Red Sox uni for the next 6+ years.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    In Response to Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?:
    [QUOTE]No Teixeira? summerof67 does the happy dance.
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]


     
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    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    No Teixeira?

    summerof67 does the happy dance.






    lol summerof67








     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    In Response to Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?:
    [QUOTE]The only guy that really cost the Sox was Kelly, who is still at AA. Rizzo vs. Gonzo, I'll take Gonzo every time. Rey Fuentes is currently blocked by Ellsbury who is emerging into an elite MLB leadoff hitter. A lot of people are kvetching about his agent, but it's not like the Sox have never signed a Boras client before. Also with Anthony Ranaudo in the fold, Kelly was somewhat expendable.---carnie ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Those prospects are assets to be kept, to be dealt for a need, etc. Even if they were blocked, the Sox had to give away important assets and the ability to leverage them for something else. Impossible to quantify what the cost really was for A Gon. If getting Tex would have also cost Montero or Romine and Betances or Banuelos plus Nunez, he'd still be a great player but the cost would be enormous. As it stands, Tex and A Gon are like bookends, but Tex came far cheaper for the Yanks.
    Posted by mfymfy[/QUOTE]

    Part of the equasion also is that the Sox are paying Gonzalez peanuts this year so that has to be factored into the cost benefit analysis.

    So while I agree the cost of aquisition was higher for Gonzalez,cash plus prospects vs cost of aquiring Texiera (cash and draft pick) An arugment could also be made that the signing of Crawford by the Sox and the Yanks trading for Granderson, taking on his contract plus giving Detriot a couple of very good prospects (Jackson & Cokw), make both deal appear to be a net equal...It's all part of the big picture roster construction with-in budgeted guidleines...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    [QUOTE]Of course, if Teixeira had come to Boston we might have had a better shot in 2009 and/or 2010. 2009 ok but the play of Beltre/ Youk last year was elite. Using this years stats to justify a career is just fraud. The OP is about 2009 to present. Teix OBP   Road OPS   LD%   Pop-up% 11 .352   .822      16.8      14.2 10 .365   .728      19.0      13.6 09 .383   .882      19.8       9.6 08 .410   .900      20.7       7.9 07 .400   .970      19.8        8.9 Zone ratings are a joke, only enjoyed by stat geeks and Theo lovers. You know, the ones that say Ellsbury is a terrible CF?  Two metrics have the Sox D as 1st or 3rd in MLB , Theo and his damn attention to stats ! Career UZR/150 has Teix (5) and Ells in CF (3.9) as about equal as fielders. I am sure Royals fans love their anti-UZR GM signing Bettencourt, et al..... God forbid, we actually go by what we see. Must be why Tex is on the fielding highlight seemingly every night, and why pitchers he plays with love him.      This is a joke , right ?  ---tom-uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Both terrific first basemen at the top of their game. Very satisfying for both teams. But can't ignore the huge price the Sox paid in prospects on top of the big contract while NY gave up no one. That will never equalize. Tom, as for the usual metrics diarrhea, please  put down the freakin' mouse and watch some baseball.            
    Posted by mfymfy[/QUOTE]

    Put me on ignore if you don't like my posts.

    The "metrics diarrhea" completes the story, my pal 791 made an argument that Teix and his 2010 low BABIP was an outlier.  I disagreed and with another half of a season in the books the peripheral stats show that "bad luck" might not have been the cause.   Many of his peripheral stats show a steady decline even a Yankee homer can see that.

    "

    One aspect you left out is draft pick compensation. The Red Sox signed Adrian Beltre last year as a result of not signing Teixeira and he had a better season than Teixeira did last year and will now net the Red Sox 2 draft picks as a type A free agent. Those picks should help make up for the loss of the prospects somewhat, as does not surrending their 1st round draft pick that year by not signing Teixeira/a type A free agent.

    Interestingly enough, that pick ended up being Reymond Fuentes, who was now sent to SD in the deal for A-Gon, so it’s like they gave up the pick after all. In terms of prospects, the Red Sox basically trade Casey Kelly and Anthony Rizzo for the 2 picks they receive for Beltre this year.   "Mike

    The premise that giving up your first-round pick is nothing, betrays your ignorance

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    In Response to Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?:
    [QUOTE]If mfy disagrees with my posts I become more confident that I  was right . Put me on ignore if you don't like my posts . The metrics diarrhea tells completes the story , my pal 791 made an argument that Teix and his 2010 low BABIP was an outlier .  I disagreed and with another half of a season in the books the peripheral stats show that " bad luck " might not have been the cause . " One aspect you left out is draft pick compensation. The Red Sox signed Adrian Beltre last year as a result of not signing Teixeira and he had a better season than Teixeira did last year and will now net the Red Sox 2 draft picks as a type A free agent. Those picks should help make up for the loss of the prospects somewhat, as does not surrending their 1st round draft pick that year by not signing Teixeira/a type A free agent. Interestingly enough, that pick ended up being Reymond Fuentes, who was now sent to SD in the deal for A-Gon, so it’s like they gave up the pick after all. In terms of prospects, the Red Sox basically trade Casey Kelly and Anthony Rizzo for the 2 picks they receive for Beltre this year.   " The premise that giving up your first - round pick is nothing betrays your ignorance .  The fact that this had to be pointed out to mfy tells the whole story .   BTW Teix is being out hit   by Lind in 2011 !
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]

    Tom,
    Make no mistake about it, the Sox really wanted Texiera (which is not news) and when he chose to sign with the Yanks, it blew a huge whole in the Sox offseason plans in 2008. Becasue had he signed with us we probably then make a stronger offer to one of the available starters that year too. Had he signed they would've gladly forfieted thier #1 pick and by all accounts I've read would have then signed Lowe who they rightfully judged not worthy of a 4 year deal plus a #1 pick. All water under the bridge now.

    In the big picture of roster construction, one move begets another and Epstien simply moved on and then went about building the 2009 roster and at the trade dealine addressed our need for a middle of the order impact bat aquiring VMart. Though some might argue we paid a steep price for Martinez (three pitching prospects with Masterson the key chip). Without his bat I doubt we make the playoffs, now in hindsight, Epstein played that hand pretty good after allowing him to walk, we netted two picks meaning that we got a year and half of Martinez for 1 prospect. I'd take that trade all day...Then in 2010 we signed Beltre to replace the departed Bay...What's was a byproduct of not signing Texiera was Theo then pick up the phone and started dialog with the Padres ulitmately aquired in Gonzalez and although we did give up 3 very good prosepcts, if you look at the current MLB roster and the organizational depth all three were expendable....
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    I agree Bean of course they wanted him but as the OP brings up maybe the Sox are lucky it didn't happen:

    Pros:

    1. The better 1b 2011 to 2016 ( AGon to '18).
    2. Great season for $10m in Beltre plus two high picks.
    3. Keep 1st round pick (Fuentes)
    4. Teix is paid $2.5m more / yr.
    5. AGon is a better fit for Fenway.


    Cons:

    1. NYY WS 2009 and Teix shines.
    2. Use Kelly, Fuentes, and Rizzo to get AGon.
     
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    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    In Response to Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?:
    [QUOTE]Teixeira preferred New York to Boston. Gonzalez seems perfectly happy to play in Boston. So yes, I'm happy we ended up with the All-Star 1B who likes it here. Remember the last time we threw a ton of money at a great player who didn't really want to come? Manny spent half his career here regretting the choice. Of course, if Teixeira had come to Boston we might have had a better shot in 2009 and/or 2010.
    Posted by thirtysomething[/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure I see your point about Manny. He eventually had his issues which many seem to remember and with that overshadow all of the great moments he also had with the Sox. I think Manny would have been unhappy eventually no matter where he had signed if it wasn't the Sox. Just Manny being Manny unfortunately. Despite all of his negatives he also helped this team win a lot of games and helped this team to a lot of success.

    Hetchinspete.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    Yeah it would have been great to have Tex here, but it's obvious he wanted to be a Yankee. That being said, all the other conjecture about what might have been is meaningless. We have Gonzo who will be with the Sox for a long time and is a great addition for this team to build around.


    One thing not mentioned is that with Agon and a good young core of players here it will make to Sox an attractive team for other free agents who want to win to want to come here and play for the Sox.

    Hetchinspete.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    In Response to Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?:
    [QUOTE]I agree Bean of course they wanted him but as the OP brings up maybe the Sox are lucky it didn't happen: Pros: 1. The better 1b 2011 to 2016 ( AGon to '18). 2. Great season for $10m in Beltre plus two high picks. 3. Keep 1st round pick (Fuentes) 4. Teix is paid $2.5m more / yr. Cons: 1. NYY WS 2009 and Teix shines. 2. Use Kelly, Fuentes, and Rizzo to get AGon.
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]

    Tom,
    I'd also list as a "pro" as a consequence of us not netting Texiera, the Yanks not aquiring Gonzalez. Trust me had they not signed Texiera. Gonzalez would have then been #1 on thier to-do list.

    Call it luck or good fortune...I think it's more good planning and were it not for the depth of our system and the teams fiscal resources we probably don't get him and would then have had to go to plan C (Fielder?)...one way or the other we'd have ended up with the missing link after Manny moved on...
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1for89. Show 1for89's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    I am very happy, as a Yankee fan.

    Teixeira never wanted to be a red sawx after they treated him like feces out of high school.   Went to Georgia Tech instead.  After that there is no way he would have signed with the sawx.  I would not be surprised if he didn't string them along just out of spite (in addition to driving up his price).
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Is anyone else happy the Sox whiffed on Teixeira?

    It was a tremendous stroke of good fortune for Gonzo to land in Fenway. Mark my words, he will wind up as possibly the greatest first baseman to ever play for the Red Sox.
     

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