Is anyone happier than me today?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : I understand where you are coming from carnie, but I do not think this ownership gives a rat's glass about the future of the franchise...If they did, they would not have given away Youk for nothing and these players today for peanuts...If I was a Yankee fan I would flip...If they had gotten a number of bona fide pitching prospects, it would be one thing...But Rubby De la Rosa is the haul?...That is insane...I do hate it carnie because I think JH beleives Red Sox nation will put up with 3 or 4 years of not being a contender...I doubt he is worried that a lot of decent potential FA's (like Moon's fave James Shields) just might not want to come to Toxic Town with its impatient fan base and all the fishbowl media scrutiny involved that Boston...How long will RSN accept fighting to stay out of 4th place and pass the Orioles...? Simply put, I think the way Larry L. and company have handled this as hatchet  men for JH is a disgrace for a once-great franchise...I mentioned already that this all reminds me of the movie Margin Call, with the sequel about John Henry and his Liverpool-related (a once proud EPL football franchise sinking fast) financial woes to be entitled, "Bad Call" ...See the movie, monsieur....I am sorry I am so so negative about this, but I do believe that so many of the fans here (except for a significant number like Since Yaz, slomag etc.) are in a state of denial, living in a baseball fantasy trade world where all this freed up dinero will be used to brilliantly rebuild the franchise...This group of John Henry stooges could not get James Shield in a trade if they offered Middlebrooks, Ciriaco, Lavarnway and Bucholz...They would have to throw in Salty for good measure...And then the Rays would toss them back a AA utility player hitting .250 to make it all fair and balanced...Just like the "miracles" Ben C. has pulled off so far...
    Posted by GreenPartyCelt[/QUOTE]We'll see I guess. I think Mr. Henry still plans on spending on his baseball team. He's actually been one of the better owners in Red Sox history. He kind of reminds me of a Tom Yawkey without the racism. The only way I see him not spending on his team is if he were looking to sell, Which I hope he doesn't do. I wouldn't mind seeing him buy out Larry Lucchino though. Ben C has actually done a pretty good job, given the mess that Theo left him.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : We'll see I guess. I think Mr. Henry still plans on spending on his baseball team. He's actually been one of the better owners in Red Sox history. He kind of reminds me of a Tom Yawkey without the racism. The only way I see him not spending on his team is if he were looking to sell, Which I hope he doesn't do. Ben C has actually done a pretty good job, given the mess that Theo left him.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]


    carnie, while I wasnt initially in favor of the trade, I'm starting to come around. It wasnt working and changes needed to be made. Hope the right players were traded and will be acquired. BC press conference this afternoon said they will rebuild, resign and will put the money back into the team, to make the Red Sox a championship caliber team again
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : carnie, while I wasnt initially in favor of the trade, I'm starting to come around. It wasnt working and changes needed to be made. Hope the right players were traded and will be acquired. BC press conference this afternoon said they will rebuild, resign and will put the money back into the team, to make the Red Sox a championship caliber team again
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]As long as they do it with 2 and 3 year deals it will probably work.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : I understand where you are coming from carnie, but I do not think this ownership gives a rat's glass about the future of the franchise...If they did, they would not have given away Youk for nothing and these players today for peanuts...If I was a Red Sox fan I would flip...If they had gotten a number of bona fide pitching prospects, it would be one thing...But Rubby De la Rosa is the haul?...That is insane...I do hate it carnie because I think JH beleives Red Sox nation will put up with 3 or 4 years of not being a contender...I doubt he is worried that a lot of decent potential FA's (like Moon's fave James Shields) just might not want to come to Toxic Town with its impatient fan base and all the fishbowl media scrutiny involved that Boston...How long will RSN accept fighting to stay out of 4th place and pass the Orioles...? Simply put, I think the way Larry L. and company have handled this as hatchet  men for JH is a disgrace for a once-great franchise...I mentioned already that this all reminds me of the movie Margin Call, with the sequel about John Henry and his Liverpool-related (a once proud EPL football franchise sinking fast) financial woes to be entitled, "Bad Call" ...See the movie, monsieur....I am sorry I am so so negative about this, but I do believe that so many of the fans here (except for a significant number like Since Yaz, slomag etc.) are in a state of denial, living in a baseball fantasy trade world where all this freed up dinero will be used to brilliantly rebuild the franchise...This group of John Henry stooges could not get James Shield in a trade if they offered Middlebrooks, Ciriaco, Lavarnway and Bucholz...They would have to throw in Salty for good measure...And then the Rays would toss them back a AA utility player hitting .250 to make it all fair and balanced...Just like the "miracles" Ben C. has pulled off so far...
    Posted by GreenPartyCelt[/QUOTE]

     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : We'll see I guess. I think Mr. Henry still plans on spending on his baseball team. He's actually been one of the better owners in Red Sox history. He kind of reminds me of a Tom Yawkey without the racism. The only way I see him not spending on his team is if he were looking to sell, Which I hope he doesn't do. I wouldn't mind seeing him buy out Larry Lucchino though. Ben C has actually done a pretty good job, given the mess that Theo left him.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]
    I guess we will see...And maybe I am demonizing JH and being unfair...I don't know...I do suspect that the Red Sox are not likely to be a real contender for 3 or 4 years, whereas if they had gotten something significant back pitching-wise for all these players it would have different...That is my main beef, not the fact that they made the trades in the first place..Why rush it unless you need a fire sale for your own financial solvency reasons...If the Red Sox turn it around quicker than I am predicting, I will admit I was off-base in my comments...But I seriously doubt it....And I suspect the weeping and gnashing of teeth on this forum will be a regular feature for a long time to come...
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : carnie, while I wasnt initially in favor of the trade, I'm starting to come around. It wasnt working and changes needed to be made. Hope the right players were traded and will be acquired. BC press conference this afternoon said they will rebuild, resign and will put the money back into the team, to make the Red Sox a championship caliber team again
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : I guess we will see...And maybe I am demonizing JH and being unfair...I don't know...I do suspect that the Red Sox are not likely to be a real contender for 3 or 4 yeatrs, whereas if they had gotten something significant back pitching-wise for all these players it would have different...That is my main beef, not the fact that they made the trades in the first place..Why rush it unless you need a fire sale for your own financial solvency reasons...If the Red Sox turn it around quicker than I am predicting, I will admit I was off-base in my comments...Bit I seriously doubt it....And I suspect the weeping and gnashing of teeth on this forum will be a regular feature for a long time to come...
    Posted by GreenPartyCelt[/QUOTE]I'm still not conceding the season series. We still have Papi and the little engine that could. Plus Ellsbury's due to get hot.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : They could not have dealt JB and CC w/o giving something up. They have huge financial flexibility, will get younger, and have cleaned out the bad blood.  And guess what???  They were the WORST TEAM IN BASEBALL WITH ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!!!!!!!!!!! They will be a much better team next year IF Ben continues the good work: *  Resign the guys who contributed this year:  Ortiz, Ross, Padilla, Morales *  Deal for the missing Ace *  Secure Mike Napoli *  Continue to focus on drafting starting pitching It's not that hard to be better next year.........
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    More revisionist history.  What good has Ben done this season?  The Sox are having their worst season since the 1980s, or something like that. 

    Oh, and the Sox were the best team in baseball for 4 1/2 months last season with Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford (and Beckett for that matter).  What cost them the post season was pitching.  Papelbon, Bard and Albers were pitiful the last 6 weeks, and the starting rotation was trying to hold it together with Eric Bedard and a hope and a prayer while Lester and Beckett lost their way and Matsuzaka, Lackey and Buchholz all got splinters sitting on the pine.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : carnie, while I wasnt initially in favor of the trade, I'm starting to come around. It wasnt working and changes needed to be made. Hope the right players were traded and will be acquired. BC press conference this afternoon said they will rebuild, resign and will put the money back into the team, to make the Red Sox a championship caliber team again
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : More revisionist history.  What good has Ben done this season?  The Sox are having their worst season since the 1980s, or something like that.  Oh, and the Sox were the best team in baseball for 4 1/2 months last season with Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford (and Beckett for that matter).  What cost them the post season was pitching.  Papelbon, Bard and Albers were pitiful the last 6 weeks, and the starting rotation was trying to hold it together with Eric Bedard and a hope and a prayer while Lester and Beckett lost their way and Matsuzaka, Lackey and Buchholz all got splinters sitting on the pine.
    Posted by parhunter55[/QUOTE]

    How did Beckett, Crawford, and Gonzalez do down the stretch last year?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from GreenPartyCelt. Show GreenPartyCelt's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : I'm still not conceding the season series. We still have Papi and the little engine that could. Plus Ellsbury's due to get hot.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]
    I have said earlier that if they lose Papi, consider this team COMPLETELY GUTTED...I agree with you here...Big Papi is in a great bargaining position now, and Ells' position has improved immeasurably as well...If Papi comes back, they will still be in the hunt to some extent IF THEY CAN GET SOME DECENT PITCHING...That is a big "IF", and I think it has been significantly undermined by all of these giveaway trades and by the damaged nature of the Red Sox brand name...A lot of players will stay away from Boston like the plague...If the Yankees or some other team aggressively goes after Papi and signs him, the next few years are likely to be even more painful than some on here can forsee...
     
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    Re: Is anyone happier than me today?

    I am with GreenPartyCelt on this one.  My biggest beefs are:  1) the idea that the Sox are going to reinvest that $260 million on players to replace what they lost is ridiculous.  The upcoming two years of FA players has very little to compare with Crawford, let alone Gonzalez.  And if the management does do that (and I predict they absolutley will not) then it makes no sense whatever, just repeating the mistakes they just got done undoing (with a different set of players).

    2)  They just didn't get enough.  Giving away AGon to rid themselves of Crawford and Beckett's contracts is foolish.  IF they had gotten the top 4 pitching prospects in the LA system, then fine.  It's the pitching that will make this team a winner again, just as it has made them losers for the last 12 months.

    3) Why rush it?  LA claimed Beckett.  Let them have him and his contract.  Then, in the off-season look to trade Crawford if you must and AGon if he wants out.  At that time you can engage several teams and have your pick of the best prospects.  The Sox got the equivalent of Lars Anderson, Anthony Ranaudo,  a young righthanded Andrew Miller, and a Kolbrin Vitek type in this deal.  Oh, and they got a Kevin Youkilis type to replace AGon for the last 6 weeks of the season.  Would you trade Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford, Nick Punto and Josh Beckett for Lars Anderson, Anthony Ranaudo, Andrew Miller and Kolbrin Vitek?  I wouldn't.  That is 3 all-stars and a versatile sub for three promises and a reliever who can hit 97 on his fastball.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : I have said earlier that if they lose Papi, consider this team COMPLETELY GUTTED...I agree with you here...Big Papi is in a great bargaining position now, and Ells' position has improved immeasurably as well...If Papi comes back, they will still be in the hunt to some extent IF THEY CAN GET SOME DECENT PITCHING...That is a big "IF", and I think it has been significantly undermined by all of these giveaway trades and by the damaged nature of the Red Sox brand name...A lot of players will stay away from Boston like the plague...If the Yankees or some other team aggressively goes after Papi and signs him, the next few years are likely to be even more painful than some on here can forsee...
    Posted by GreenPartyCelt[/QUOTE]That's another reason I like this move. There's really no surefire ace pitcher available right now, so the only way to really improve our starting pitching is to stockpile all the young power arms we can, and hope one of them comes up big next year. I'd probably even cheer for the Yanks if we could rent Papi out to vous tous for Betances and Banuelos.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : Not so Andrew ....     There are 2 more venues filled with it - media and fans ....    Not all, but then not all the players were ...
    Posted by SinceYaz[/QUOTE]

    So true Yaz...
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : How did Beckett, Crawford, and Gonzalez do down the stretch last year?
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    Don't have "down the stretch" numbers, but post all-star Gonzalez had a .317 BAve and .404 OBP with 10 HRs and 16 doubles for an .983 OPS.  Crawford hit .267, with an OBP of .303 with 10 steals and 5 HRs, easily his better half of the season.  Meanwhile, as I mentioned, Beckett faded significantly in September as I recall, and his ineffectiveness continued into this year (as I predicted, since being an even year it is his year to stink). 

    Getting rid of Beckett is the only good thing about this trade, IMO.  But I'd rather Ben had just stuck LA with Beckett and his contract and pulled Adrain and Crawford back from waivers and waited until the off-season to look for more return (and see whether Ellsbury can be signed--remember, part of Crawford's value was that he provided insurance if Ells proved to be fragile (he did) and/or unsignable).
     
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    [QUOTE]I am with GreenPartyCelt on this one.  My biggest beefs are:  1) the idea that the Sox are going to reinvest that $260 million on players to replace what they lost is ridiculous.  The upcoming two years of FA players has very little to compare with Crawford, let alone Gonzalez.  And if the management does do that (and I predict they absolutley will not) then it makes no sense whatever, just repeating the mistakes they just got done undoing (with a different set of players). 2)  They just didn't get enough.  Giving away AGon to rid themselves of Crawford and Beckett's contracts is foolish.  IF they had gotten the top 4 pitching prospects in the LA system, then fine.  It's the pitching that will make this team a winner again, just as it has made them losers for the last 12 months. 3) Why rush it?  LA claimed Beckett.  Let them have him and his contract.  Then, in the off-season look to trade Crawford if you must and AGon if he wants out.  At that time you can engage several teams and have your pick of the best prospects.  The Sox got the equivalent of Lars Anderson, Anthony Ranaudo,  a young righthanded Andrew Miller, and a Kolbrin Vitek type in this deal.  Oh, and they got a Kevin Youkilis type to replace AGon for the last 6 weeks of the season.  Would you trade Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford, Nick Punto and Josh Beckett for Lars Anderson, Anthony Ranaudo, Andrew Miller and Kolbrin Vitek?  I wouldn't.  That is 3 all-stars and a versatile sub for three promises and a reliever who can hit 97 on his fastball.
    Posted by parhunter55[/QUOTE]

    i am curious and haven't heard it mentioned, but do you all think that Adrian Gonzalez is shipped out because of the text "from his phone that he did not send", like you said, RS could have rid themselves of Beckett by just letting LA claim him
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : i am curious and haven't heard it mentioned, but do you all think that Adrian Gonzalez is shipped out because of the text "from his phone that he did not send", like you said, RS could have rid themselves of Beckett by just letting LA claim him
    Posted by az-yankee-fan[/QUOTE]


    the dodgers had been looking for 1st baseman and pitcher. lost out on Dempster. They had contacted BC in April and since, about Gonzalez. BC said today he wanted a bigger sample size of the team as constructed. when it was apparent it wasn't working, decided to make the trade, which has been in the works "for a while"
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from CA_Sox. Show CA_Sox's posts

    Re: Is anyone happier than me today?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : Don't have "down the stretch" numbers, but post all-star Gonzalez had a .317 BAve and .404 OBP with 10 HRs and 16 doubles for an .983 OPS.  Crawford hit .267, with an OBP of .303 with 10 steals and 5 HRs, easily his better half of the season.  Meanwhile, as I mentioned, Beckett faded significantly in September as I recall, and his ineffectiveness continued into this year (as I predicted, since being an even year it is his year to stink).  Getting rid of Beckett is the only good thing about this trade, IMO.  But I'd rather Ben had just stuck LA with Beckett and his contract and pulled Adrain and Crawford back from waivers and waited until the off-season to look for more return (and see whether Ellsbury can be signed--remember, part of Crawford's value was that he provided insurance if Ells proved to be fragile (he did) and/or unsignable).
    Posted by parhunter55[/QUOTE]

    I agree parhunter... they had one of the top offenses in baseball and a lot of that was due to Agon...now they will no longer have a very good offensive team and the pitching still s u c k s.....Im ok with seeing where this money is going to be spent but quite frankly, I dont see anyone great who is a free agent next year other than Hamilton and you know the Sox wont go there... Id  just like to hear from all these happy campers some plan on how this team will be better than this year... or for that matter, how they will be better in 3 or 4 years.... and I dont want to hear about stock piling young (unproven) arms because we all know they are a crap shoot... To me, they should have demanded at least Billingsley and two top arms.... forget about those utility players who I will bet wont amount to anything....
     
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    [QUOTE]I am with GreenPartyCelt on this one.  My biggest beefs are:  1) the idea that the Sox are going to reinvest that $260 million on players to replace what they lost is ridiculous.  The upcoming two years of FA players has very little to compare with Crawford, let alone Gonzalez.  And if the management does do that (and I predict they absolutley will not) then it makes no sense whatever, just repeating the mistakes they just got done undoing (with a different set of players). 2)  They just didn't get enough.  Giving away AGon to rid themselves of Crawford and Beckett's contracts is foolish.  IF they had gotten the top 4 pitching prospects in the LA system, then fine.  It's the pitching that will make this team a winner again, just as it has made them losers for the last 12 months. 3) Why rush it?  LA claimed Beckett.  Let them have him and his contract.  Then, in the off-season look to trade Crawford if you must and AGon if he wants out.  At that time you can engage several teams and have your pick of the best prospects.  The Sox got the equivalent of Lars Anderson, Anthony Ranaudo,  a young righthanded Andrew Miller, and a Kolbrin Vitek type in this deal.  Oh, and they got a Kevin Youkilis type to replace AGon for the last 6 weeks of the season.  Would you trade Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford, Nick Punto and Josh Beckett for Lars Anderson, Anthony Ranaudo, Andrew Miller and Kolbrin Vitek?  I wouldn't.  That is 3 all-stars and a versatile sub for three promises and a reliever who can hit 97 on his fastball.
    Posted by parhunter55[/QUOTE]

    Dumping 100d's of millions of dollars, in itself, was worth the transaction.

    With the 'power numbers'(tongue in cheek) lost with Gonzalez, Beckett's decline, and Crawford's admitted dislike for play in large market teams, we definitely added by subtraction.
     
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    Re: Is anyone happier than me today?

    Glad you're happy, I am.  I see a team with a new identity. We have two Aces in Lester and Buch, three players entering their prime in Dustin, Lacoby, Salty, and three furute stars at 3b Borrksey, SS Ings, and OF Kalish. 

    Lots to like      
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : the dodgers had been looking for 1st baseman and pitcher. lost out on Dempster. They had contacted BC in April and since, about Gonzalez. BC said today he wanted a bigger sample size of the team as constructed. when it was apparent it wasn't working, decided to make the trade, which has been in the workds :for a while"
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    thanks for insight
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : That's another reason I like this move. There's really no surefire ace pitcher available right now, so the only way to really improve our starting pitching is to stockpile all the young power arms we can, and hope one of them comes up big next year. I'd probably even cheer for the Yanks if we could rent Papi out to vous tous for Betances and Banuelos.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]
    As I have said already, and parhunter has reiterated, why didn't they use all these blue chips to get the prospects you are seeking?? Why not be patient, cagey and a bit Cashman-like about it, and avoid a fire-sale..Why?? Because I really do not think JH cares about the long-term future of the red Sox franchise...I think he is more concerned about his own potential financial losses, which is his right of course...But is hardly suggests an owner who is deeply worried about the long-term competitive picture as long as it works financially for him...
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : As I have said already, and parhunter has reiterated, why didn't they use all these blue chips to get the prospects you are seeking?? Why not be patient, cagey and a bit Cashman-like about it, and avoid a fire-sale..Why?? Because I really do not think JH cares about the long-term future of the red Sox franchise...I think he is more concerned about his own potential financial losses, which is his right of course...But is hardly suggests an owner who is deeply worried about the long-term competitive picture as long as it works financially for him...
    Posted by GreenPartyCelt[/QUOTE]We have to agree to disagree on this one my friend. And cas you thought I was conceding, I'm not.
     
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    In response to "Re: Is anyone happier than me today?": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : They could not have dealt JB and CC w/o giving something up. They have huge financial flexibility, will get younger, and have cleaned out the bad blood.  And guess what???  They were the WORST TEAM IN BASEBALL WITH ADRIAN GONZALEZ!!!!!!!!!!!! They will be a much better team next year IF Ben continues the good work: *  Resign the guys who contributed this year:  Ortiz, Ross, Padilla, Morales *  Deal for the missing Ace *  Secure Mike Napoli *  Continue to focus on drafting starting pitching It's not that hard to be better next year......... Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE] You forget Cherington is still the GM.
     
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    In response to "Re: Is anyone happier than me today?": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is anyone happier than me today? : Dumping 100d's of millions of dollars, in itself, was worth the transaction. With the 'power numbers'(tongue in cheek) lost with Gonzalez, Beckett's decline, and Crawford's admitted dislike for play in large market teams, we definitely added by subtraction. Posted by ampoule[/QUOTE] When do get your dividend check?
     

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