Is Doubront hitting a wall?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    Ive been suggesting that its a very possible reality that Felix Doubront hits a wall before the season is over. His max IP is 161 and hes approaching 140IP. Factor in his issue with showing up for camp for the 2nd time out of shape, his dead arm issues at the start of the year, and you have a valid concern. This is why I didnt list him as a post season starter. Unless he gets some rest or is skipped a couple starts, hes going to be approaching the cut off point for IP.

    His last 2 starts have been nothing short of a train wreck and Ive noticed the velocity is down again. Maybe a skipped start or 2 will do him good, but all the signs are there that hes looking tired. He did this last year and after a bit of a rest he finished strong. Maybe the same approach should be taken.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    Where are all the pundits who suggested only a few days ago the Dubrount was now better than Lester?

     "Here we are trapped in the amber of the moment. There is no why.- Kurt Vonnegut

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    Where are all the pundits who suggested only a few days ago the Dubrount was now better than Lester?

     "Here we are trapped in the amber of the moment. There is no why.- Kurt Vonnegut




    They apparently didnt see what I was seeing. Doubie is a solid starter and I really like him, but facts are facts. This should be a concern going forward.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    The entire team looks like they need a few " scheduled " days off. Maybe just forfeit a few games. Spend some time on John Henry's yacht . Skip the west coast trip. Come back refreshed. Ready to go.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    The entire team looks like they need a few " scheduled " days off. Maybe just forfeit a few games. Spend some time on John Henry's yacht . Skip the west coast trip. Come back refreshed. Ready to go.

    Stabbed by Foulke.




    They have looked bad at the plate and in the field the last few games. Im confident they will turn it back around like they have all year. Every team goes through this. Just ask the rays about their recent 6 game skid.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    Come back Buch (can't be too soon).

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    Dog days..

    Some say a storm is coming, Some say the end is near.

    Some think it's all so hazy, I think it's all so clear.

    Some say they have the answers, some say they know the truth.

    Some people live in question, some people have no clue.

    If there was no tomorrow, if there was just today.

    would you make different choices? or would you stay the same?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    Doubront has been by far our most consistent starter this season.  In fact, until his last two starts, he had given up 2 ER or less in eight of his previous nine.

    And,  yes, he has pitched better this season than Jon Lester. His numbers are better in every category than strikeouts.

    His last two outings have been poor, there's no sugar coating that. But it's TBD as for whether he's hitting a wall.

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    Sorry for the double post,  no idea  how that happened, and there is no longer  a  delete button.


     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    The entire team looks like they need a few " scheduled " days off. Maybe just forfeit a few games. Spend some time on John Henry's yacht . Skip the west coast trip. Come back refreshed. Ready to go.

    Stabbed by Foulke.




    Bring up the Pawsox team and put the entire big club on paternity leave or even better , the bereavement list.

    They are playing like nervous dads to be....or maybe it's the funeral for the 2013 season?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Ive been suggesting that its a very possible reality that Felix Doubront hits a wall before the season is over. His max IP is 161 and hes approaching 140IP. Factor in his issue with showing up for camp for the 2nd time out of shape, his dead arm issues at the start of the year, and you have a valid concern. This is why I didnt list him as a post season starter. Unless he gets some rest or is skipped a couple starts, hes going to be approaching the cut off point for IP.

    His last 2 starts have been nothing short of a train wreck and Ive noticed the velocity is down again. Maybe a skipped start or 2 will do him good, but all the signs are there that hes looking tired. He did this last year and after a bit of a rest he finished strong. Maybe the same approach should be taken.



    Remember about 3 starts ago, I said it was time to give Doubront a 2 starts off break?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    Doubront has been by far our most consistent starter this season.  In fact, until his last two starts, he had given up 2 ER or less in eight of his previous nine.

    And,  yes, he has pitched better this season than Jon Lester. His numbers are better in every category than strikeouts.

    His last two outings have been poor, there's no sugar coating that. But it's TBD as for whether he's hitting a wall.

     

     




    This has been a concern of mine since the start of the year and I believe I even mentioned it a couple times. I do hope Im worng.

    In Last nights game not only was the velocity down, but he had nothing on his pitches. No movement. NOTHING. That concerns me. Usually its missing spots and the such. When you have absolutely nothing on your offspeed stuff, its usually a tired arm thats not strong enough to snap off a good curve/slider etc.

    Like I said I hope Im wrong, but if you add everything up from the start of ST there was a possibility this would happen around this time.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Ive been suggesting that its a very possible reality that Felix Doubront hits a wall before the season is over. His max IP is 161 and hes approaching 140IP. Factor in his issue with showing up for camp for the 2nd time out of shape, his dead arm issues at the start of the year, and you have a valid concern. This is why I didnt list him as a post season starter. Unless he gets some rest or is skipped a couple starts, hes going to be approaching the cut off point for IP.

    His last 2 starts have been nothing short of a train wreck and Ive noticed the velocity is down again. Maybe a skipped start or 2 will do him good, but all the signs are there that hes looking tired. He did this last year and after a bit of a rest he finished strong. Maybe the same approach should be taken.

     



    Remember about 3 starts ago, I said it was time to give Doubront a 2 starts off break?

     




    I do Moon. Ive been worried about this all year. It wasnt a matter if if with Doubie, but when. maybe a skipped start or 2 will help like it did last year.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    I've been saying it! I know southpaw, moon and others have been too.

    When Buchholz comes back I'd really like to see a 6 man rotation up until the playoffs.  Or some method of getting these guys rested and ready for a playoff run.  

    you can't keep Pedey Ellsburys and Ortiz slumping for long and we knw this pitching has been very good at times this year.  I believe with a little rest Doubront, Lackey and Lester can be as good as they've been at there best ths year n the playoffs. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    Doubront has been by far our most consistent starter this season.  In fact, until his last two starts, he had given up 2 ER or less in eight of his previous nine.

    And,  yes, he has pitched better this season than Jon Lester. His numbers are better in every category than strikeouts.

    His last two outings have been poor, there's no sugar coating that. But it's TBD as for whether he's hitting a wall.

     

     



    What about WHIP, innings, and quality starts? Doubrant pitched well this season but dig a little deeper and Lester really has pitched better.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    Doubront has been by far our most consistent starter this season.  In fact, until his last two starts, he had given up 2 ER or less in eight of his previous nine.

    And,  yes, he has pitched better this season than Jon Lester. His numbers are better in every category than strikeouts.

    His last two outings have been poor, there's no sugar coating that. But it's TBD as for whether he's hitting a wall.

     

     



    Even if he comes out and pitches a gem his next start we should still be concerned.  When young pitchers push there inning limits to new highs they tend to fatigue.  Now you can hypothetically make the argument that that won't happen but history tells us it usually does.

    So all we've been saying is that it would be optimal to give these guys rest to prevent that from happening.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    Think of it as preventative maintenance

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    What about WHIP, innings, and quality starts? Doubrant pitched well this season but dig a little deeper and Lester really has pitched better.


    The WHIP  is essentially a wash (1.35 Lester, 1.43 Doubront), but you have  a point on innings. Even with a sub-par year, Lester is still averaging 6 1/3 per start. Doubront is at just over  5 2/3.

    As for quality starts, both have 13. But I give  no credence to that stat since I don't  consider an ERA of 4.50 "qualty."

    Just to  clarify, I didn't say Doubront has been our best pitcher.  I said  he has been our most consistent.  Lester has had six starts in which he gave up 1 ER or fewer,  but he's also  had seven starts in which he gave up  5+. Doubront has given up 3 ER or fewer in 20 of his 22 starts.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    He had a bad start it happens.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

     

    What about WHIP, innings, and quality starts? Doubrant pitched well this season but dig a little deeper and Lester really has pitched better.

     


    The WHIP  is essentially a wash (1.35 Lester, 1.43 Doubront), but you have  a point on innings. Even with a sub-par year, Lester is still averaging 6 1/3 per start. Doubront is at just over  5 2/3.

     

    As for quality starts, both have 13. But I give  no credence to that stat since I don't  consider an ERA of 4.50 "qualty."

    Just to  clarify, I didn't say Doubront has been our best pitcher.  I said  he has been our most consistent.  Lester has had six starts in which he gave up 1 ER or fewer,  but he's also  had seven starts in which he gave up  5+. Doubront has given up 3 ER or fewer in 20 of his 22 starts.

     



    In the modern game due to the way teams use their bullpens, and manage pitchers workloads. Complete games are now the exception v the rule for starting pitchers. Most rarely pitch into the seventh. So I wouldn't diminish the 13 quality starts by either. Allowing 3 earned runs over six full is not a note worthy accomplishment. It does in almost every instance keep your team in the game and give them a chance to win. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    He had a bad start it happens.



    I'm not seeing any reason to think he can't pitch anymore.  Doubront gave up 8 hits in 4 IPs.  Kuroda gave up 11 hits in 5.2.  This can happen to virtually any pitcher.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    Where are all the pundits who suggested only a few days ago the Dubrount was now better than Lester?

     "Here we are trapped in the amber of the moment. There is no why.- Kurt Vonnegut



    There are a couple, maybe more than a couple of posters whose analysis won't go much further back than one or two games.  Lester has a 3.65 over his past 8 games, with a 44/12 K/W.  But he gave up 6 runs back on 8/2 so they gave up on him.  Now Doubront had his first really bad game since maybe early May.

    It continues to amaze me how every single bad game has to be a harbinger of disaster.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

     

    Where are all the pundits who suggested only a few days ago the Dubrount was now better than Lester?

     "Here we are trapped in the amber of the moment. There is no why.- Kurt Vonnegut

     



    There are a couple, maybe more than a couple of posters whose analysis won't go much further back than one or two games.  Lester has a 3.65 over his past 8 games, with a 44/12 K/W.  But he gave up 6 runs back on 8/2 so they gave up on him.  Now Doubront had his first really bad game since maybe early May.

     

    It continues to amaze me how every single bad game has to be a harbinger of disaster.



    What many of the fans and those who post here forget is that both teams as a rule show up to play with singular team goal. That is to win the game. There is a contingent among them known as the doom and gloomers club that also only wants to see what's wrong with the Sox. Then voice their angst when they lose a couple of games or when a particular player who might be having a tough stretch, sometimes defined as a single game fails to go 4 for 4 or pitch a shutout.

    The root of this malaise lyes in the infamous 86 year drought that later became known as the curse of the bambino. A paranoia that is fanned by the pied piper himself Dan Shaunessy and his many minions in the Boston press. After we won it in 2004 and 2007 Dan and his merry men were saddened that they had lost an easy by-line of gloom used to whip us the masses and lead them down the path of doom and woe is me. Then praise Jesus, all was saved by the collapse of 2011 Red Sox and the drama that was...today they have in their sights another fall due to the flawed roster and the overachieving 2013 Red Sox who as the dog days of August draw to a close and the crisp cool air of the fall is right around the corner Can't possibly hold off the mighty Yanks. Dan and his merry men, today sit awaiting yet another opportunity to call to arms the masses of their club to help pressurize the air in Fenway trying to drain the oxygen form the air in effort to sabotage our season and set in place the perfect dynamics to foster another generation of doomers. A disease that inflicts the weary of heart and the heartiest of fans.

    Fear not, the cure is easy, it's called perspective. If one tries hard and does some homework. They'll find that teams win and lose for reason that can be easily explained and super natural powers and our lord god have nothing to do with it. In the immortal words of Herm Edwards...

    Hello! You play to win the game. As in both teams...and in all my time on gods earth what I have come to know is the best team usually previals. dispite what Shaunessy might want us to believe...

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    The root of this malaise lyes in the infamous 86 year drought that later became known as the curse of the bambino. A paranoia that is fanned by the pied piper himself Dan Shaunessy and his many minions in the Boston press.

    It's kind of an odd thing that fans (and I mean the real fans) would not step forward and accept their position near the top of the food chain.  I understand not taking anything for granted.  But to bash our players because of a childhood-induced paranoia seems counter-productive.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is Doubront hitting a wall?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

     

    He had a bad start it happens.

     



    I'm not seeing any reason to think he can't pitch anymore.  Doubront gave up 8 hits in 4 IPs.  Kuroda gave up 11 hits in 5.2.  This can happen to virtually any pitcher.

     




    Joe,

    I brought up some valid concerns dating back to ST. Its not one of these, "it happens" things. I use that line all the time. Like I said, I do hope Im dead wrong. Its now 2 starts in a row about the same time he hit a wall last year. And with a poor ST, showing up out of shape, having arm issues at the start of the year (remember everyone talking about his loss of velocity?), and a rough April/start of May with control issues (13BB in 3 games) (23H in 9IP first 2 games in May). Now hes only at 132IP, but this is where your off season and in season conditioning coming into play. In the Dog Days.

    Hes been Great since mid may and very consistent, no doubt. But the concern has been there all year with me for the reason listed in my earlier post and now this one.

     
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