IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucbom. Show lucbom's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

    Hey lucbom, did Hanrahan not have 'it' or did he get squeezed??

    If Ball 3 or Ball 4 were called strikes, like they appeared to be in the Amica pitch zone, then Hanrahan would have had 'IT' and would have notched the expected save.

    Plus, closers are just that...CLOSERS...they're job is to get the save...if things happen and they blow it, then thats baseball.

    So you're the manager...when do you pull him last night:

    • After Davis HR?
    • After getting two quick outs?
    • After giving up the lazy single to Flaherty?
    • After Casilla SB?
    • After walking Reimhold?
    • After getting squeezed and walking McLouth?
    • After the wild pitch?

    The next pitch was a 3-run HR and game over...so when do you pull him??

    Also before you answer, also answer what the impact would be on that player going forward, from a confidence perspective. Because pulling him anytime before the 3-run HR would also dictate removal of him as closer, since you just blew the players confidence to get the job done.

    Also keep in mind, you don't have the luxury of second guessing when you are making on the field manager decisions.

       "Soxdog", I don't think  getting squeezed by an umpire is controllable situation.  Sensing when a pitcher has it or not is.  As to your question I would have pulled Hamraham after walking a Reimhold.  Both Flaherty and Reimhold had BA's around .200.  GO SOX!  Smile


     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucbom. Show lucbom's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    In response to TV-Guy's comment:

    In response to lucbom's comment:

     

    Is Farrell a Francona clone when it comes to having a "blind eye" when his closer is not pitching as effectively as one whould like to see a closer pitch.  First, IMO it appears that Farrell is an upgrade over Francona, but last night when Hamraham (AKA Hanrahan) was doing his immatation of Paps closing a game, the one where Paps would get 1, 2, or 3 runners on base before Paps would maybe close a game and get a save, Farrell and his pitching coach Nieves seem to have a "blind eye" to Hamraham's melt down and went way to long, way to long before pulling Hamraham, which was after Hamraham gives up five (5) runs.  Most of the Red Sox Nation would agree that Farrell/Nieves should have pulled Hamraham way before the 3 run blast.  If this thought is appropriate, then let's hope that Farrell and Nieves will recognize a pitchers melt down long before its to late.  Its very early in the season and it was only one loss even if it was to a division team, so its GO SOX!  Lets rebound on Thursday for our third consecutive series sweep of the young season.   Smile

     




     

    Your agenda on Farrell was set months ago.

     

    Re: Red Sox Hire Farrell

     

    posted at 10/21/2012 12:15 PM EDT

     

     

     

    • lucbom
    • Posts: 491
    • First: 4/3/2006
    • Last: 4/11/2013

     

     

     

    Well, Farrell is "6'2, white, blond with blue eyes" and he certaily "LOOKS" like a Manager, BUT does he really have anything between the ears to be a Manager of the Boston Red Sox?  Sure hope he can get the job done and wish him much luck because I think he's going to need it considering the current Red Sox roster, management, media and the Red Sox Nation.

    Don't you have any neighbors in rural Colorado who are white with blue eyes?

     

     

     

          LOL.......


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    i hope so. Francona is undefeated in the WS with 2 rings.


     



    I was thinking the same thing.

     

    Francona was a dullard who happened upon a great situation in Boston. When he had a normal amount of talent in Philly his W-L record stunk. He made the same stupid mistakes over and over again, overprotected his players through his "good old boy network" and showed all the tactical creativity of drywall. So far Farrell has at least shown that he has something besides a vacumn between his ears.

     

     




     

     



    Normal amount of talent? Are you serious. The rest of your post has no credibility.

     

    Can you even name the players on those teams. The Phillies did not have "normal amount of talent." 

    The pitching staff his last year was garbage. Their relievers had ERAs of 5.86 (closer), 4.34, 4.40, 6.55, 4.13. Even taking into consideration that ERAs don't have a lot of value for reliever, that's horrible.

    The starters -- Randy Wolf (only double-digit winner but a 4.36 ERA), Robert Person, Schilling (just 16 starts), Andy Ashby, Bruce Chen, Paul Byrd (6.51 ERA).

    And there were maybe four decent guys in the lineup -- Rolen and Bobby Abreua the best. The other two catcher Mike Liebethal just 108 games, however, and maybe Pat Burrell. If those last two are your third- and fourth-best players in the lineup, you have issues.

    No bench and the rest was garbage.

    Their lineup in 1999 was better and they won 77 games. The pitching -- GARBAGE. Here are the ERAs of the starters -- 4.60, 3.54 (Schilling), 5.63, 4.27, 5.55 and 5.12. And again -- no bullpen. Wayne Gomes was the closer. WAYNE FREAKIN' GOMES. The team's ERA was 4.92, whick scked even for the steroid era (fourth from the bottom).

    That the 1999 team won 77 games with that pitching staff was actually a great accomplishment.

    So calling his Phillies' teams as normal amount of talent negates anything you say afterward. You could say the sky is blue and it would be meaningless.

     



    Francona was in Boston during the decline in pitching talent that started in 2008. His pitching staff, you claim, stunk for him in Philly too. Coincidence? Probably not. While he was here Francona consistently made the mistake of leaving a tiring pitcher in the game too long, until the other team had basically salted the game away. He never learned from those mistakes, not even at the very end here. I do not have ill will towards him wherever his future takes him, but I do not miss him here.

     

     



    How is it Francona's fault that there was a decline in pitching talent or that he had garbage for pitching in Philadelphia.

     

    NEWS ITEM: This is not the Patriots where the coach/manager is also responsible for signing players. 

    The quality pitchers pitched well from 2008 to 2011, just like Schilling pitched well for him in Philly when he was healthy.

    The problem in Philly was they very few quality arms. The problem in Boston after 2008 was no depth so that when someone got hurt, especially in 2011. Nothing wrong with Beckett, Lester and Buchholz in 2011 when they were healthy. Name a manager who would have done anything with the garbage that came after those three. 

     And you're saying the decline "started in 2008." The Sox were tied for fourth in the AL in ERA in 2008. Wow, that's terrible.

     

     




    I am being very fair about this. Francona is not totally responsible for the increase in team ERA, but he is not totally without fault either. He is as stubborn as a donkey, making the same stupid mistakes over and over again-leaving pitchers in games when even amateurs could tell that they were finished, failing to utilize his full offensive arsenal including the bunt, the hit and run etc, failing to pinch hit for players who were slumping because he was afraid he would "lose them" and on and on and on. Ever see Francona employ defensive shifts the way Farrell is doing? Like I said, Francona is the least creative manager I have ever seen with the creative mind of drywall.

     

    And yes, the when the team goes from first in AL ERA in 2007 to fourth in 2008 to seventh in 2009 that IS a decline beginning in 2008. Francona deserves part of the blame for that, though the majority of the blame is on Epstein, one of the most overrated GMs in history.

    I just don't think Francona was a very good manager because he was so poor of an in-game tactician. He was good at managing the clubhouse and keeping his players happy-to a fault. The combination of those two make him a mediocre manager and I am glad he is no longer here.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    Too bad you can't do anything fun with Farrell's name like make Francona into FranCOMA.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    Too bad you can't do anything fun with Farrell's name like make Francona into FranCOMA.



    I know...that always cracked me up.

    Farrell doesn't rhyme with anything.  

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    Too bad you can't do anything fun with Farrell's name like make Francona into FranCOMA.

     



    I know...that always cracked me up.

     

    Farrell doesn't rhyme with anything.  

     



    Some people here don't like humorous nicknames for the players. They think its juvenile because they have no sense of humor. I think names like Francoma and Dumpster are funny, not insulting. Players are public figures and expect that sort of thing.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    Just an amazing OP, but also a revealing one.  As others have noted, we do have fans who think a manager must be clairvoyant and held accountable when he is not. 

    I wasn't that happy with Hanrahan either, but he still had a one run lead and two outs when he threw that pitch, I think the 6th, that was well inside the strike zone and would have been strike three but the ump called a ball.  Then another, which loaded the bases, followed by the WP to tie the game and the dinger to finish the Sox off.  Up until that dinger, I think 97% of MLB managers would have stayed with their closer, especially at the beginning of the season and especially when he already had three saves in 7 games. 

    As for Francona, I found his decisions to always be highly defensible.  We just had fans who weren't satisfied with anything less than clairvoyance.  If the Sox lost a game for any reason, it was always the manager's fault. 

    I do think there are similarities between Farrell and Francona, and by and large that's probably good. 

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    I'll never understand the reasoning behind leaving a pitcher in to lose a game in the 9th.  Why is it ok to pull an imploading picture in innings 1 thru 8 but inning 9 (to some managers) is different.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    Too bad you can't do anything fun with Farrell's name like make Francona into FranCOMA.

     



    I know...that always cracked me up.

     

    Farrell doesn't rhyme with anything.  

     



    Cracker Barrel 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

    I'll never understand the reasoning behind leaving a pitcher in to lose a game in the 9th.  Why is it ok to pull an imploading picture in innings 1 thru 8 but inning 9 (to some managers) is different.



    Yeah, the rationale has never been fully explained by anyone as far as i know.  But I think it some secret-ops stress-test psychology S&%t:  like, a closers job is relatively easy.  But the one thing he has to be able to do is handle the pressure of finishing off a close game.  There is a unique tension that comes with having the W in your hands.  So, by letting him go through failure, he will be more at ease, experience less tension when the chips are really on the table, because he has been through it already.  nothing to fear but fear it self.  Dunno.  i always thought of it like that.  And, while I am no harry Edwards psychologist or professional baseball man, I am a performer and former high-level athlete, so I think there is some merit to being allowed to fail in the spotlight in order to better succeed moving forward.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    Too bad you can't do anything fun with Farrell's name like make Francona into FranCOMA.

     



    I know...that always cracked me up.

     

    Farrell doesn't rhyme with anything.  

     

     



    Cracker Barrel 

     




    Thats pretty good.

    "looks like old Cracker Barrel left Miller in too long again".

    Of course his first name is John.

    So we could just start calling him "toilet"

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    In response to lucbom's comment:

    Is Farrell a Francona clone when it comes to having a "blind eye" when his closer is not pitching as effectively as one whould like to see a closer pitch.  First, IMO it appears that Farrell is an upgrade over Francona, but last night when Hamraham (AKA Hanrahan) was doing his immatation of Paps closing a game, the one where Paps would get 1, 2, or 3 runners on base before Paps would maybe close a game and get a save, Farrell and his pitching coach Nieves seem to have a "blind eye" to Hamraham's melt down and went way to long, way to long before pulling Hamraham, which was after Hamraham gives up five (5) runs.  Most of the Red Sox Nation would agree that Farrell/Nieves should have pulled Hamraham way before the 3 run blast.  If this thought is appropriate, then let's hope that Farrell and Nieves will recognize a pitchers melt down long before its to late.  Its very early in the season and it was only one loss even if it was to a division team, so its GO SOX!  Lets rebound on Thursday for our third consecutive series sweep of the young season.   Smile



    Grow up !!!!!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

     

    I'll never understand the reasoning behind leaving a pitcher in to lose a game in the 9th.  Why is it ok to pull an imploading picture in innings 1 thru 8 but inning 9 (to some managers) is different.

     



    Yeah, the rationale has never been fully explained by anyone as far as i know.  But I think it some secret-ops stress-test psychology S&%t:  like, a closers job is relatively easy.  But the one thing he has to be able to do is handle the pressure of finishing off a close game.  There is a unique tension that comes with having the W in your hands.  So, by letting him go through failure, he will be more at ease, experience less tension when the chips are really on the table, because he has been through it already.  nothing to fear but fear it self.  Dunno.  i always thought of it like that.  And, while I am no harry Edwards psychologist or professional baseball man, I am a performer and former high-level athlete, so I think there is some merit to being allowed to fail in the spotlight in order to better succeed moving forward.

     



    I agree Spaceman.  It's obviously based on some outdated, Voo Doo based, folklore Baseball myth  dating back to the 70's.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    Better to be a Francona clone than a Valentine clone.  I guess Valentine is one of a kind.  Thank goodness for that.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaffyDan. Show DaffyDan's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    If by Francona clone you mean, he can't build a Mariano Rivera out of mud, then yes,Farrell's a Francona clone. 

    -Daf. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucbom. Show lucbom's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    In response to donrd4's comment:

    In response to lucbom's comment:

     

    Is Farrell a Francona clone when it comes to having a "blind eye" when his closer is not pitching as effectively as one whould like to see a closer pitch.  First, IMO it appears that Farrell is an upgrade over Francona, but last night when Hamraham (AKA Hanrahan) was doing his immatation of Paps closing a game, the one where Paps would get 1, 2, or 3 runners on base before Paps would maybe close a game and get a save, Farrell and his pitching coach Nieves seem to have a "blind eye" to Hamraham's melt down and went way to long, way to long before pulling Hamraham, which was after Hamraham gives up five (5) runs.  Most of the Red Sox Nation would agree that Farrell/Nieves should have pulled Hamraham way before the 3 run blast.  If this thought is appropriate, then let's hope that Farrell and Nieves will recognize a pitchers melt down long before its to late.  Its very early in the season and it was only one loss even if it was to a division team, so its GO SOX!  Lets rebound on Thursday for our third consecutive series sweep of the young season.   Smile

     



    Grow up !!!!!

     

       Sure hope that I can continue to grow up "don?.  I'm already 82 and hope the Sox win another WS before I go into the oven........GO SOX!  Smile


     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    Yup! Farrell is Terry's ill-legitimate half brother and both were taught the art of looking stupid when they were youngins at their daddy's knees. Tito is their actual father and he only hoped and prayed they got the I'm stupid stare down before their respective managerial careers got underway.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    Nothing more definitive than a 1-game sample.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    Too bad you can't do anything fun with Farrell's name like make Francona into FranCOMA.




    Ferret?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    In response to lucbom's comment:

    In response to donrd4's comment:

     

    In response to lucbom's comment:

     

    Is Farrell a Francona clone when it comes to having a "blind eye" when his closer is not pitching as effectively as one whould like to see a closer pitch.  First, IMO it appears that Farrell is an upgrade over Francona, but last night when Hamraham (AKA Hanrahan) was doing his immatation of Paps closing a game, the one where Paps would get 1, 2, or 3 runners on base before Paps would maybe close a game and get a save, Farrell and his pitching coach Nieves seem to have a "blind eye" to Hamraham's melt down and went way to long, way to long before pulling Hamraham, which was after Hamraham gives up five (5) runs.  Most of the Red Sox Nation would agree that Farrell/Nieves should have pulled Hamraham way before the 3 run blast.  If this thought is appropriate, then let's hope that Farrell and Nieves will recognize a pitchers melt down long before its to late.  Its very early in the season and it was only one loss even if it was to a division team, so its GO SOX!  Lets rebound on Thursday for our third consecutive series sweep of the young season.   Smile

     



    Grow up !!!!!

     

     

       Sure hope that I can continue to grow up "don?.  I'm already 82 and hope the Sox win another WS before I go into the oven........GO SOX!  Smile


    Wow! Taking you a long time...lol...... If your such a Sox fan, Don't sweat the small stuff you have no control over.To many cry babies on here who are ready to ponce on anything and everythig.Francona is gone so why care or compare. Long season ahead and if things happen you or anyone else  on here are not going to change anything. Bit ch ,moan , cry we would only wish that we were a pro ballplayer. Would you then consider yourself a loser no good bum,Don't have a clue, filthy rich useless person. Now ???? If you were one of those balllayers, coaches, manger .......And you had a chance to tell everyone of the posters on here.....WHAT  WOULD YOU TELL US  ?? I would start out with ,The posers on here don't have a clue !

     




     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: IS FARRELL A FRANCONA CLONE?

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

    Hey lucbom, did Hanrahan not have 'it' or did he get squeezed??

    If Ball 3 or Ball 4 were called strikes, like they appeared to be in the Amica pitch zone, then Hanrahan would have had 'IT' and would have notched the expected save.

    Plus, closers are just that...CLOSERS...they're job is to get the save...if things happen and they blow it, then thats baseball.

    So you're the manager...when do you pull him last night:

    • After Davis HR?
    • After getting two quick outs?
    • After giving up the lazy single to Flaherty?
    • After Casilla SB?
    • After walking Reimhold?
    • After getting squeezed and walking McLouth?
    • After the wild pitch?

    The next pitch was a 3-run HR and game over...so when do you pull him??

    Also before you answer, also answer what the impact would be on that player going forward, from a confidence perspective. Because pulling him anytime before the 3-run HR would also dictate removal of him as closer, since you just blew the players confidence to get the job done.

    Also keep in mind, you don't have the luxury of second guessing when you are making on the field manager decisions.



    at the very latest after walking mclouth, walking back to back batters to load the bases is a pretty good indication that a closer doesnt have it on that night. 

     
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