Is it just me?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Is it just me?

    Who feels when your starting pitcher gives up 11 hits and a BB in less than 4 innings with no K's we propably shouldn't be pressing our luck being down just two?  Sure we don't want to tax the pen but  now we probably handed Texas the game.

    If we lose it's strictly on Farrell this time.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    Who feels when your starting pitcher gives up 11 hits and a BB in less than 4 innings with no K's we propably shouldn't be pressing our luck being down just two?  Sure we don't want to tax the pen but  now we probably handed Texas the game.

    If we lose it's strictly on his ones on Farrell this time.




    Really? If you have to blow threw 7 innings of bullpen, what will the effects be future games? The issue would be if it happens a few more times, you remove him from rotation.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    In response to ADG's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    Who feels when your starting pitcher gives up 11 hits and a BB in less than 4 innings with no K's we propably shouldn't be pressing our luck being down just two?  Sure we don't want to tax the pen but  now we probably handed Texas the game.

    If we lose it's strictly on his ones on Farrell this time.

     




    Really? If you have to blow threw 7 innings of bullpen, what will the effects be future games? The issue would be if it happens a few more times, you remove him from rotation.

     



    Who cares, you take one game at a time and hope for the best, not just give a game away to hope for best in the next game or two. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    this is hardly Farrells fault...If Doubie did his job and could be more consistent we'd be ok.  his 20 pitches per innings and 4-5 walks a game isnt going to cut it. Farrell was hoping he could right the ship like he did the least game. No need to burn the pen. Wilson will probably go 3 innings if he can.

    Holland is mowing them down tonight. Rangers have great pitching.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    Who feels when your starting pitcher gives up 11 hits and a BB in less than 4 innings with no K's we propably shouldn't be pressing our luck being down just two?  Sure we don't want to tax the pen but  now we probably handed Texas the game.

    If we lose it's strictly on his ones on Farrell this time.



    You'd be surprised at how often SPs are left in to give up 6+ runs.  On Tuesday night alone-

    • Worley 6
    • Richards 7
    • DelaRosa 6
    • Halladay 8
    • Jackson 8
    • MacDonald 7

    That's 6 guys in one night.  They used to say that about Francona all the time too, but that is just the way in works in BB.  No one is willing to burn out their BP

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    this is hardly Farrells fault...If Doubie did his job and could be more consistent we'd be ok.  his 20 pitches per innings and 4-5 walks a game isnt going to cut it. Farrell was hoping he could right the ship like he did the least game. No need to burn the pen. Wilson will probably go 3 innings if he can.

    Holland is mowing them down tonight. Rangers have great pitching.



    My point exactly southpaw,

    Holland is mowing us down while Doub continued putting Texas on base.  You don't allow this to continue with half the game remaining and because you are trying to save the pen for the next game or two.  It's Farrells choice and responsibility period at least we were fortunate the Yanks lost.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    You play every game to win.  But you can't play every game like it's Game 7.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to ADG's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    Who feels when your starting pitcher gives up 11 hits and a BB in less than 4 innings with no K's we propably shouldn't be pressing our luck being down just two?  Sure we don't want to tax the pen but  now we probably handed Texas the game.

    If we lose it's strictly on his ones on Farrell this time.

     




    Really? If you have to blow threw 7 innings of bullpen, what will the effects be future games? The issue would be if it happens a few more times, you remove him from rotation.

     

     



    Who cares, you take one game at a time and hope for the best, not just give a game away to hope for best in the next game or two. 

     



    According to that logic, you would bring in your closer for 3 innings every time you had the lead.

    And instead of pitching Lester and Buchholz every 5th day, you'd pitch them every other day.

    And everyone would play all 162 games.

    And SPs would throw 140 pitches.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    this is hardly Farrells fault...If Doubie did his job and could be more consistent we'd be ok.  his 20 pitches per innings and 4-5 walks a game isnt going to cut it. Farrell was hoping he could right the ship like he did the least game. No need to burn the pen. Wilson will probably go 3 innings if he can.

    Holland is mowing them down tonight. Rangers have great pitching.

     



    My point exactly southpaw,

     

    Holland is mowing us down while Doub continued putting Texas on base.  You don't allow this to continue with half the game remaining and because you are trying to save the pen for the next game or two.  It's Farrells choice and responsibility period at least we were fortunate the Yanks lost.

     




    Sometimes you have to stick with your starter to see if he can pull through it. Lots of guys are left in and give up 6 runs. See Joes post above. its not unusual.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to ADG's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    Who feels when your starting pitcher gives up 11 hits and a BB in less than 4 innings with no K's we propably shouldn't be pressing our luck being down just two?  Sure we don't want to tax the pen but  now we probably handed Texas the game.

    If we lose it's strictly on his ones on Farrell this time.

     




    Really? If you have to blow threw 7 innings of bullpen, what will the effects be future games? The issue would be if it happens a few more times, you remove him from rotation.

     

     



    Who cares, you take one game at a time and hope for the best, not just give a game away to hope for best in the next game or two. 

     

     



    According to that logic, you would bring in your closer for 3 innings every time you had the lead.

     

    And instead of pitching Lester and Buchholz every 5th day, you'd pitch them every other day.

    And everyone would play all 162 games.

    And SPs would throw 140 pitches.



    So your theory is anytime our team is struggling to score and something like this happens we should just throw in the towel and allow Doub to continue getting trashed?  I'm sure our offense and pen may disagree and actually prefer a chance to win the game. 

    Making up two runs compared to seven or 8 is achievable, we basically threw in the flag.

    Glad I never had a manger like you!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    this is hardly Farrells fault...If Doubie did his job and could be more consistent we'd be ok.  his 20 pitches per innings and 4-5 walks a game isnt going to cut it. Farrell was hoping he could right the ship like he did the least game. No need to burn the pen. Wilson will probably go 3 innings if he can.

    Holland is mowing them down tonight. Rangers have great pitching.

     



    My point exactly southpaw,

     

    Holland is mowing us down while Doub continued putting Texas on base.  You don't allow this to continue with half the game remaining and because you are trying to save the pen for the next game or two.  It's Farrells choice and responsibility period at least we were fortunate the Yanks lost.

     

     




    Sometimes you have to stick with your starter to see if he can pull through it. Lots of guys are left in and give up 6 runs. See Joes post above. its not unusual.

     



    I listed the guys that gave up a lot of runs,  There are also plenty of guys that got hit hard early, then settled down.  You'll see every night that some gives up 3-4 in the first two innings, then shuts out the other team for the next four innings.

    But managers don't pull starters early unless they are getting killed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    Sometimes a pitcher has to be a sacrificial lamb for the team....it's not a pleasant feeling..LOL

    140 pitches?  I'm not really that adverse to it.  Perhaps not 140, but certainly more than the rediculous 100 pitch rule.  What ever happened to pitchers consistently throwing 120-125 pitches or so?

    I think todays pitchers are unnecessarily babied.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    Glad I never had a manger like you!

    Every manager is like me.  The fact that you don't know that is meaningless to me.

    Also meaningless is the rest of the blah, blah, blah.

    Doubront gave up one run in three innings.  Show me all the times this year that a manager has pulled an SP after 3 innings and 1 run.

    I'll wait for the results.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    In response to ampoule's comment:

    Sometimes a pitcher has to be a sacrificial lamb for the team....it's not a pleasant feeling..LOL

    140 pitches?  I'm not really that adverse to it.  Perhaps not 140, but certainly more than the rediculous 100 pitch rule.  What ever happened to pitchers consistently throwing 120-125 pitches or so?

    I think todays pitchers are unnecessarily babied.



    Babying the arm is not why they restrict pitchers to 100 or so pitches.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    Craze4sox, you are way off on this one and all these guys are making great points.  It's a long season, a season in which you would be extremely happy if you lose 60 to 70 games.  Doubront is still young and obviously a bit raw, but he has shown the ability to settle down.  You don't blow out the bullpen in a game where the other pitcher is clearly dealing.  The reality of this series is that they would LOVE to take 2 out of 3, but they will go home with a smile if they grab only one of these games.  Besides, Moon jinxed Doubront in his predictions. ;)

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to ampoule's comment:

     

    Sometimes a pitcher has to be a sacrificial lamb for the team....it's not a pleasant feeling..LOL

    140 pitches?  I'm not really that adverse to it.  Perhaps not 140, but certainly more than the rediculous 100 pitch rule.  What ever happened to pitchers consistently throwing 120-125 pitches or so?

    I think todays pitchers are unnecessarily babied.

     



    Babying the arm is not why they restrict pitchers to 100 or so pitches.

     




    Educate me.

    Is it because of the supposed 'new era' of specialists?

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    this is hardly Farrells fault...If Doubie did his job and could be more consistent we'd be ok.  his 20 pitches per innings and 4-5 walks a game isnt going to cut it. Farrell was hoping he could right the ship like he did the least game. No need to burn the pen. Wilson will probably go 3 innings if he can.

    Holland is mowing them down tonight. Rangers have great pitching.

     



    My point exactly southpaw,

     

    Holland is mowing us down while Doub continued putting Texas on base.  You don't allow this to continue with half the game remaining and because you are trying to save the pen for the next game or two.  It's Farrells choice and responsibility period at least we were fortunate the Yanks lost.

     



    I don't think you can ask your bullpen to blow through 5 innings in the first game of this series, especially since it was still a one run game for a long time. Better solution: give Doubront another few starts and if he fails, demote him.

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    In response to ampoule's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to ampoule's comment:

     

    Sometimes a pitcher has to be a sacrificial lamb for the team....it's not a pleasant feeling..LOL

    140 pitches?  I'm not really that adverse to it.  Perhaps not 140, but certainly more than the rediculous 100 pitch rule.  What ever happened to pitchers consistently throwing 120-125 pitches or so?

    I think todays pitchers are unnecessarily babied.

     



    Babying the arm is not why they restrict pitchers to 100 or so pitches.

     

     




    Educate me.

     

    Is it because of the supposed 'new era' of specialists?



    It's related.  Pitchers get tired.  It isn't so much the injury, though that could certainly be one more thing on that side of the ledger, but the pitchers get tired.  Take the following splits from the 2012 AL

    • 1-25  .710 OPS
    • 26-50  .725
    • 51-75  .748
    • 75-100  .773

    As you can see, the results get worse as the pitch count mounts up.  This is the same with any athletic event.  The more you do anything, the more tired you get.  By the time you've reached the 100th pitch, you are .063 worse than when you started.

    And you know how many teams have RPs with better OPSa than .773?  All of them.  As good as Verlander is, his 76-100 is still .690.  Tazawa, Uhera and Bailey have an OPSa of .695, .600, and  .469.

    So even the best pitcher in BB is not as good after 100 pitches as good BP pitchers are for one inning.  So it is actually the opposite of babying the SPs arm.  They only keep him in for as long as they do so that they can baby the BP arms.  Very few SPs are as good after 100 pitches as an average BP arm will be for one.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    craze4sox is dead wrong on this one.  All managers will leave their starters in up to about 7 runs or even more unless it's a close game or the starter has already pitched, say, 5 innings or more.  If Farrell had done anything other than that, he would have been justifiably second guessed.

    craze4sox right now is looking pretty foolish blaming a loss on the manager when the pitching staff gave up 18 hits and the lineup couldn't score a single run.  This was a decisive win by Texas and unpreventable by any managerial moves.   

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to ampoule's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to ampoule's comment:

     

    Sometimes a pitcher has to be a sacrificial lamb for the team....it's not a pleasant feeling..LOL

    140 pitches?  I'm not really that adverse to it.  Perhaps not 140, but certainly more than the rediculous 100 pitch rule.  What ever happened to pitchers consistently throwing 120-125 pitches or so?

    I think todays pitchers are unnecessarily babied.

     



    Babying the arm is not why they restrict pitchers to 100 or so pitches.

     

     




    Educate me.

     

    Is it because of the supposed 'new era' of specialists?

     



    It's related.  Pitchers get tired.  It isn't so much the injury, though that could certainly be one more thing on that side of the ledger, but the pitchers get tired.  Take the following splits from the 2012 AL

     

    • 1-25  .710 OPS
    • 26-50  .725
    • 51-75  .748
    • 75-100  .773

    As you can see, the results get worse as the pitch count mounts up.  This is the same with any athletic event.  The more you do anything, the more tired you get.  By the time you've reached the 100th pitch, you are .063 worse than when you started.

    And you know how many teams have RPs with better OPSa than .773?  All of them.  As good as Verlander is, his 76-100 is still .690.  Tazawa, Uhera and Bailey have an OPSa of .695, .600, and  .469.

    So even the best pitcher in BB is not as good after 100 pitches as good BP pitchers are for one inning.  So it is actually the opposite of babying the SPs arm.  They only keep him in for as long as they do so that they can baby the BP arms.  Very few SPs are as good after 100 pitches as an average BP arm will be for one.




    Thanks for the info...interesting.  And, I respect your knowledge.

    I realize what the 'stats' say, yet I just have trouble being totally convinced.  Maybe it's me...a dinosaur living in the 21st century.

    I just feel that intangibles make a significant impact.  Things being equal, why do some players, or pitchers for that matter, do better against some teams than others?  How do you measure momentum?  It certainly exists..big time.  How do you measure 'clutch'?  How is team chemistry measured and the impact it has in the clubhouse?

    In essence, I'm sure that some stats make a difference, but it's certainly not the absolute.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is it just me?

    Beyond Buch and Lester, the Red Sox starting pitching is weak.

     

    Lucky you feel pitching is meaningless.

     
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