Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : And the sawx are 6-2 against the angels and .500 against everyone else. Too bad you don't have any more games against the angels unless you meet them in the playoffs.......and we know how well that worked out the last time that happened. 
    Posted by --The---Babe-1[/QUOTE]Actually you cherry picked because the RS are 5-1 against the NYY meaning they are less than .500 against everybody else.
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

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    [QUOTE]Sleestack has it exactly right. The Sox only have better starters than the Yanks if you ignore trivial details like actual stats and W-L records.  A bigger concern is that the Sox have three pitchers and two non-performing dogs while the Yanks seem to be solid at 4 and 5 with Garcia and Nova. That's a problem for the Sox as is fielding a lineup that simply doesn't stack up to the division's best. Long season, girls. Calm down.
    Posted by mfymfy[/QUOTE]It is along season and things will shake out but you are dellusional if you think the RS line-up doesn't stack up against the best lien-ups in the AL. I am not a big fan of head to head comparisons but for grins:

    1B. Gonzalez v. Texieria - advantage A-Gon -RS
    2B. Pedey v. Cano - advantage Cano - NYY
    SS. Lowrie/Scutaro v. Jeter - age is a bummer advantage RS
    3B. Youk v. A-Rod - slight advantage Youk or a draw - Draw
    LF. Gardner v. Crawford - over 162 this will be Crawford by a mile -RS
    CF Ellsbury v. Granderson - Granderson - NYY
    RF Drew v. Swisher - draw- Draw
    C Salty/Tek v. Martin - Martin _ NYY
    DH - Ortiz - Posada/Jones - Ortiz - advantage Ortiz -RS

    So in this line-up the RS seem to have an advantage at 4 positions, the NYY 3 and 2 are a draw. The RS appear to have adraw in IF defense, an edge in OF defense and at C.

    The RS seem to fielding a line-up that stacks up. 

     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a81df60f3-70ee-4ca3-9336-8cf2c0a8301aDiscussion%3a00581fa7-f56c-4808-8b7c-a11723c000fa&plckFindPostKey=Cat:SportsForum:81df60f3-70ee-4ca3-9336-8cf2c0a8301aDiscussion:00581fa7-f56c-4808-8b7c-a11723c000faPost:b5d70706-12d4-4b95-bea4-aa7be77f3f56 " /> Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : Sleestack has it exactly right. The Sox only have better starters than the Yanks if you ignore trivial details like actual stats and W-L records.  A bigger concern is that the Sox have three pitchers and two non-performing dogs while the Yanks seem to be solid at 4 and 5 with Garcia and Nova. That's a problem for the Sox as is fielding a lineup that simply doesn't stack up to the division's best. Long season, girls. Calm down. Posted by mfymfy Points well taken but truthfully Wakefield and Aceves seemingly have more to offer right now than Daisake(Tommy John surgery) and Lackey 2-5   8.00 era--william93063  -------------------------------------------------------------------- Agreed. I was a big Aceves fan when he was here in NY, but his chronic back issues kept putting him on the shelf. Great as a long man, but broke down quickly when he was used as a spot starter. I've always liked Wakefield as well, but at this point, he's an accident looking for an intersection. But both better than the alternative.
    Posted by mfymfy[/QUOTE]

    I think Aceves is one of those low risk high reward guys.  Anything we get out of Wake at this point is a bonus.  He has nothing left to prove.  Ideally 5 innings 3 runs or less out of a 4 and 5 starter is acceptable in most starts.  Lackey has major "off field issues" his wife is battling breast cancer and his "dl" stint is for his head and his psyche it is most definately a "phantom injury".
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    It is along season and things will shake out but you are dellusional if you think the RS line-up doesn't stack up against the best lien-ups in the AL. I am not a big fan of head to head comparisons but for grins:

    1B. Gonzalez v. Texieria - advantage A-Gon -RS
    2B. Pedey v. Cano - advantage Cano - NYY
    SS. Lowrie/Scutaro v. Jeter - age is a bummer advantage RS
    3B. Youk v. A-Rod - slight advantage Youk or a draw - Draw
    LF. Gardner v. Crawford - over 162 this will be Crawford by a mile -RS
    CF Ellsbury v. Granderson - Granderson - NYY
    RF Drew v. Swisher - draw- Draw
    C Salty/Tek v. Martin - Martin _ NYY
    DH - Ortiz - Posada/Jones - Ortiz - advantage Ortiz -RS

    So in this line-up the RS seem to have an advantage at 4 positions, the NYY 3 and 2 are a draw. The RS appear to have adraw in IF defense, an edge in OF defense and at C.

    The RS seem to fielding a line-up that stacks up. ---fivekatz
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Some wishing and hoping there, draws that aren't really draws unless you're a fan, but hey, who's counting? (Actually, you are, in this case.) 
    I don't see it as a push, but I can't blame a fan, although with V-Mart and Beltre, it was closer and a better constructed offense.
    But back to SPC's assertion about rotation superiority. I like the top 3, but in general, the Yanks have had great success matching up against them. Beyond that, it's the blackest of black holes and the Yanks are solid thru 5. Like I said, long season.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from WilcyMoore. Show WilcyMoore's posts

    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    You have to be delusional if you actually believe that Kevin Youkilis is better than Alex Rodriguez or that the immortal Marco Scutaro and Peanuts Lowrie should even be mentioned in the same sentence as Derek Jeter.  Simply stated, Rodriguez and Jeter have had Hall of Fame careers.  Youk, Scoot and Peanuts have not nor ever will.  As far as the pitching staffs go, suffice it to say that the Yankees' starting rotation as well as their bullpen has been much better and more consistent so far than that of their AL East rivals far in reality (statistically they are not even close).  Throw in the fact that Beckett is overperforming at an unstainable level given his resume and that barring a miraculous transformation, he will ultimately pitch like he has during his time in the AL.  It's a long season with many ups and downs and the Yankees starting rotation at the moment is better than that of the Sox.  Forget names and look at numbers.  The truth will set you free as they say. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from lvanDrago. Show lvanDrago's posts

    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    wonder what Mfymfy's excuse will be when Colon and Garcia crash back to earth.

    and for the record, position by position comps are the dumbest things you can do in baseball.
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]It is along season and things will shake out but you are dellusional if you think the RS line-up doesn't stack up against the best lien-ups in the AL. I am not a big fan of head to head comparisons but for grins: 1B. Gonzalez v. Texieria - advantage A-Gon -RS 2B. Pedey v. Cano - advantage Cano - NYY SS. Lowrie/Scutaro v. Jeter - age is a bummer advantage RS 3B. Youk v. A-Rod - slight advantage Youk or a draw - Draw LF. Gardner v. Crawford - over 162 this will be Crawford by a mile -RS CF Ellsbury v. Granderson - Granderson - NYY RF Drew v. Swisher - draw- Draw C Salty/Tek v. Martin - Martin _ NYY DH - Ortiz - Posada/Jones - Ortiz - advantage Ortiz -RS So in this line-up the RS seem to have an advantage at 4 positions, the NYY 3 and 2 are a draw. The RS appear to have adraw in IF defense, an edge in OF defense and at C. The RS seem to fielding a line-up that stacks up. ---fivekatz ----------------------------------------------------------------- Some wishing and hoping there, draws that aren't really draws unless you're a fan, but hey, who's counting? (Actually, you are, in this case.)  I don't see it as a push, but I can't blame you, although with V-Mart and Beltre, it was closer and a better constructed offense. But if the offenses are close enough, I don't see Sox rotation superiority 1 thru 5, do you?    
    Posted by mfymfy[/QUOTE]Frankly I think the RS are stronger 1-3 and have no idea what they have with Aceves and Wakefield. If Lackey comes back and pitches like he did last year for the balance of the year (not a huge expectation) the Sox probably have the better rotation.

    Where the rotation will really come into play of course is the playoffs. CC certainly would not shock me if he hits his stride. Colon is unlikely to last over 32 starts and Burnett is Lackey. Looking at probable post season match ups the NYY as constructed would at least be slighty over matched against the Rays, Angels and RS and draw with the Tigers and Rangers. Who knows who the Indians are right now?

    I posted early in this thread that this point in the season it is premature to say these things so I am not being as big a fan boy as you may think and cautioned the board last week that they were writing off the NYY prematurely. That said two final thoughts:

    The NYY remind me of the 2003 RS in construction, with the advantage of a defined closer. A lot of any post season success will rest on CC winning every start.

    As for the draws I am sure you might disagree about Youkilis versus A-Rod but we aren't talking life work here we are talking this year. The guys are similar fielders and Youk is about a 70 point higher OPS guy and this is the third year in a row that Youk has been posting a higher OPS. Drew and Swisher are a draw and with a game on the line whose glove would you rather have?  How are these not draws. Sorry about Jeter but the RS get better offense with Lowrie and Scutaro and Jeter are the same guy at this point, legendary status aside. And Gonzo just like Youk has had a superior OPS to Tex last year in SD and so far this year.

    These are two very good teams. Most places where on has the advantage the other has a very good player in their line-up. Pedey v Cano by example or Tex v. A-Gon. The NYY are going to get way more offense from Martin and Ortiz may have already out produced the 2011 NYY DH offerings.

    These are worthy opponents and unlike what you said, I'd never suggest that either team's lineup doesn't stack up against the better line-ups in the league. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from lvanDrago. Show lvanDrago's posts

    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    PS: This is the 3rd straight year that Youkilis has been putting up better #s than Hip Rod, so looks like Katz was being generous by calling it a draw.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from WilcyMoore. Show WilcyMoore's posts

    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    First of all Burnett is essentially Beckett and Beckett is essentially Burnett.  Their career numbers are almost carbon copies of each other as knowledgeable fans know.  Beckett has always had better command and his exaggerated reputation was largely based on his success in the 2003 postseason as an unknown who came out of nowhere on baseball's biggest stage.  Burnett has always had better stuff, but is more of a head case.  Both have had an exceptional season pitching in the AL East.  Burnett's happened to be with the Jays and Beckett's was of course with Boston several years ago.  Freddy Garcia today reminds me a lot of a pitcher named Orlando Hernandez in 1998.  He has pitched much better his record appears on the surface with an ERA of less than 3 and a string of quality starts.  In reality, he is currently the team's number 2 starter based on how he has performed.  What we do know is that the teams we see today will not exactly be the same as those we will see in September both from a performance as well as a personnel perspective.  Change is inevitable.   
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from lvanDrago. Show lvanDrago's posts

    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    Garcia has a career ERA of over 4, hasn't pitched 200+ innings since 2006 and hasn't had a season with an era under 4 since 2005.

    To expect him to continue his current performance, or anywhere near it, is beyond moronic.
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : Frankly I think the RS are stronger 1-3 and have no idea what they have with Aceves and Wakefield. If Lackey comes back and pitches like he did last year for the balance of the year (not a huge expectation) the Sox probably have the better rotation. Where the rotation will really come into play of course is the playoffs. CC certainly would not shock me if he hits his stride. Colon is unlikely to last over 32 starts and Burnett is Lackey. Looking at probable post season match ups the NYY as constructed would at least be slighty over matched against the Rays, Angels and RS and draw with the Tigers and Rangers. Who knows who the Indians are right now? I posted early in this thread that this point in the season it is premature to say these things so I am not being as big a fan boy as you may think and cautioned the board last week that they were writing off the NYY prematurely. That said two final thoughts: The NYY remind me of the 2003 RS in construction, with the advantage of a defined closer. A lot of any post season success will rest on CC winning every start. As for the draws I am sure you might disagree about Youkilis versus A-Rod but we aren't talking life work here we are talking this year. The guys are similar fielders and Youk is about a 70 point higher OPS guy and this is the third year in a row that Youk has been posting a higher OPS. Drew and Swisher are a draw and with a game on the line whose glove would you rather have?  How are these not draws. Sorry about Jeter but the RS get better offense with Lowrie and Scutaro and Jeter are the same guy at this point, legendary status aside. And Gonzo just like Youk has had a superior OPS to Tex last year in SD and so far this year. These are two very good teams. Most places where on has the advantage the other has a very good player in their line-up. Pedey v Cano by example or Tex v. A-Gon. The NYY are going to get way more offense from Martin and Ortiz may have already out produced the 2011 NYY DH offerings. These are worthy opponents and unlike what you said, I'd never suggest that either team's lineup doesn't stack up against the better line-ups in the league. 
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Not saying Gardner is a better player than Crawford, but his runs scored, on base percentage and stolen bases will be in the same neighborhood as CC and as a leftfielder; there is no comparison. If you're not going by past performance with Jeter and Arod, then I don't know how you could with CC. He may come around this year, ..... but this is not Tampa; it's Boston.
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]You have to be delusional if you actually believe that Kevin Youkilis is better than Alex Rodriguez or that the immortal Marco Scutaro and Peanuts Lowrie should even be mentioned in the same sentence as Derek Jeter.  Simply stated, Rodriguez and Jeter have had Hall of Fame careers.  Youk, Scoot and Peanuts have not nor ever will.  As far as the pitching staffs go, suffice it to say that the Yankees' starting rotation as well as their bullpen has been much better and more consistent so far than that of their AL East rivals far in reality (statistically they are not even close).  Throw in the fact that Beckett is overperforming at an unstainable level given his resume and that barring a miraculous transformation, he will ultimately pitch like he has during his time in the AL.  It's a long season with many ups and downs and the Yankees starting rotation at the moment is better than that of the Sox.  Forget names and look at numbers.  The truth will set you free as they say. 
    Posted by WilcyMoore[/QUOTE]Silly, silly.

    I am not questioning who is going to the HOF. And you should follow your own advise regarding ignoring the names. Jeter is Marco Scutaro at this point on the back of his baseball card for the last year plus 46 games. Lowrie is hitting better than Jeter. Youkilis for the same period of time has a better OPS than A-Rod.

    Jeter 2011 OPS : .619   2010 OPS: .710
    Lowrie 2011 OPS: .812  2010 OPS: .907
    Scutaro 2011 OPS: .625 2010 OPS: .721

    A Rod 2011 OPS: .871 2010 OPS: .847
    Youk 2011 OPS: .938 2010 OPS: .975

    And if you drew a 4 year graph to track career trajectory the line is going up for Youk and steady down for A-Rod. Jeter is also a steep decline, Scutaro flat and Lowrie too young to draw any valid conclusions from.

    The NYY are paying for HOF careers the RS are getting better results in 2011. 

    Subtract the first two weeks of April BTW and I think you will find that the RS pitching has been better BTW and head to head it has not been close.

    Let's put it this way when it comes to the pitching. If we were kids in the backyard you take CC, Colon and Garcia and I'll take Buch, Lester and Beckett. I think that our sandlot games would play out just like the three at the House the Taxpayers Built did weekend before last.
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]First of all Burnett is essentially Beckett and Beckett is essentially Burnett.  Their career numbers are almost carbon copies of each other as knowledgeable fans know.  Beckett has always had better command and his exaggerated reputation was largely based on his success in the 2003 postseason as an unknown who came out of nowhere on baseball's biggest stage.  Burnett has always had better stuff, but is more of a head case.  Both have had an exceptional season pitching in the AL East.  Burnett's happened to be with the Jays and Beckett's was of course with Boston several years ago. 
    Posted by WilcyMoore[/QUOTE]

    Except for this year.

    ERA : 1.69 vs 4.02
    Whip : 0.95 vs 1.20

    And Burnetts "exceptional" year in the AL East was an 18 game win year, but his ERa was onver 4.00 and his WHIP was 1.34

    In 2007 Beckett's ERA 3.27 with a WHIP 1.27

    I'd post their postseason numbers, but I don't want to embarrass Mr. Burnett.

    But, if it makes you feel better to think they're the same pitcher, knock yourself out.
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : Not saying Gardner is a better player than Crawford, but his runs scored, on base percentage and stolen bases will be in the same neighborhood as CC and as a leftfielder; there is no comparison. If you're not going by past performance with Jeter and Arod, then I don't know how you could with CC. He may come around this year, ..... but this is not Tampa; it's Boston.
    Posted by pri360[/QUOTE]Fair enough it is a projection. Given his age and history, the fact that he has always played in the division. But fair enough. call it a draw. The teams are still very equally matched and some people are confusing what players were in 2005 with who they are now.
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    Just a little bit of information concerning the "immortal" Kevin Youkilis.  He takes the bat out of his hand much more often than he should given what he is paid to do and that is drive in runs.  Hence, the meaningless .OPS stat based on his constant Little League approach that a walk is as good as a hit.  Personally, I think HR's and RBI are more relevant numbers.  I have never seen a walk drive in a runner from 2d base.  He was 27 years old when he finally got an opportunity to play every day and he was so highly regarded by the Red Sox organization that he was "almost" traded (thrown in for the heck of it) to sign a General Manager named Beane.  By the time he was 27 Alex Rodriguez was one of the greatest players in the history of the game and on pace to possibly be the best ever at his position. As a 3B, Youkilis is average at best and while Rodriguez has a gun for an arm, Youkilis has a pistol.  Outstanding at 1B and that is why guys like Bill Mueller and later Mike Lowell played the position rather than the Youkster.  I understand that he's beloved in Red Sox Nation and I understand why, but once again to put him in the same sentence as the steroid infested superstar named Alex Rodriguez is a bit of a stretch even for the most blatant homer.  As far as the school yard analogy goes, I would certainly welcome the matchups you suggested.  The Yankees had consistently destroyed Beckett up until his two starts this year and have not minded facing "pitch to contact" Buchholz in his relatively few starts.  Lester and Sabathia are two of the premier lefty aces in the game.  The other games would be a "pick em."
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    "Yes. As Beni pointed out, even in the offseason, in his threads on the subject that were not well received. I hope he is vindicated."

    Not yet. Lots of season to go. He can never be fully vindicated because there was no point in posting countless threads trashing the Yankees, as if it were a two team league. Example: Smiley certainly didn't see Tampa Bay coming. 
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]You have to be delusional if you actually believe that Kevin Youkilis is better than Alex Rodriguez or that the immortal Marco Scutaro and Peanuts Lowrie should even be mentioned in the same sentence as Derek Jeter.  Simply stated, Rodriguez and Jeter have had Hall of Fame careers.  Youk, Scoot and Peanuts have not nor ever will.  As far as the pitching staffs go, suffice it to say that the Yankees' starting rotation as well as their bullpen has been much better and more consistent so far than that of their AL East rivals far in reality (statistically they are not even close).  Throw in the fact that Beckett is overperforming at an unstainable level given his resume and that barring a miraculous transformation, he will ultimately pitch like he has during his time in the AL.  It's a long season with many ups and downs and the Yankees starting rotation at the moment is better than that of the Sox.  Forget names and look at numbers.  The truth will set you free as they say. 
    Posted by WilcyMoore[/QUOTE]

    Your ignorance of the basic facts is breathtaking!  AROD is going in one direction.  Down in a spiral.  His fielding flat out stinks . Youk is a gold glove caliber defender for starters.  Youkilis is also one of the best pure hitters in the league with a healthy career OPS(mid to high 900's the past 4 seasons and trending up) that is all the more impressive considering he is yet to hit 30 home runs in a season, which he will possibly even this year.  AROD is a product of the chemistry lab.  Since his "outing" a couple of season ago his numbers look a whole lot more ordinary.  33 million?!  For what?  a .280 hitter with 30 home runs now if he's lucky who at this point is a butcher at third!?
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]First of all Burnett is essentially Beckett and Beckett is essentially Burnett.  Their career numbers are almost carbon copies of each other as knowledgeable fans know.  Beckett has always had better command and his exaggerated reputation was largely based on his success in the 2003 postseason as an unknown who came out of nowhere on baseball's biggest stage.  Burnett has always had better stuff, but is more of a head case.  Both have had an exceptional season pitching in the AL East.  Burnett's happened to be with the Jays and Beckett's was of course with Boston several years ago.  Freddy Garcia today reminds me a lot of a pitcher named Orlando Hernandez in 1998.  He has pitched much better his record appears on the surface with an ERA of less than 3 and a string of quality starts.  In reality, he is currently the team's number 2 starter based on how he has performed.  What we do know is that the teams we see today will not exactly be the same as those we will see in September both from a performance as well as a personnel perspective.  Change is inevitable.   
    Posted by WilcyMoore[/QUOTE]
    l
    Beckett's reputation got exaggerated because he pitched a team to world championship and then did it again 4 years later?  Not taking anything away from AJ, but Josh has had 2 truly great post-seasons that ended in titles, AJ has 1 career post-season win.  Those are not carbon copies.




     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from lvanDrago. Show lvanDrago's posts

    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    LOL @ WMoore. Wow, kid's CLUELESS.

     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    your arguement is that cc is better than beckett, lester or buchholz? based on 'actual stats' and record?
    of the four cc leads them in wins? no lester is about to get his 7th to cc's 5
    strikeouts? no lester has him there, too (in 13 fewer innings). beckett is 4 behind him
    era? no beckett leads the league.
    k/9? lester and beckett have him beat
    bb/9? yes cc tops them there, though he has walked more ppl than beckett.
    babip? no. beckett and buchholz beat cc who is tied with lester
    fip or xfip? no. beckett has him beat in both of those categories.
    cc has pitched more innings than any red sox starter and has a better war at 2.2. he has also given up more hits and earned runs than any of the three red sox pitchers mentioned.
    then there is head to head where beckett has beaten him twice.
    small sample size, but our two 'dogs' pitched great (each went 5+ innings and gave up a run) in their only starts. wakefield has a 4.5 era while aceves has a 2.42 era. i don't know who is the 4 and who is the 5 at this point, but they match up pretty well with nova at 4.29 and garcia at 3.12.

    not to disparage cc at all, he is a great pitcher and a fine human being, but based on this years performance you would be hard pressed to start cc over beckett, lester, or buchholz. and that is the point of this particular thread.
    to think that the yankees pitching staff is better than the red sox based on team record is dangerous. the yankees lead the league in home runs and have played three more home games than the red sox.

    as far as 'fielding a lineup that simply doesn't stack up to the division's best.' the sox have better avg, obp, hits, doubles, and bb.
    while the yankees have better hr, ops, slg, triples
    how much of the difference lies in the fact that they have played more home games than the sox? and does it matter that their stadium doesn't measure up to major league ballparks? we shall see...



     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    No, by years end CC will have great numbers.  All three of those guys would easily be the # 2 guy in NY though, and Lester and Beckett are capable of having better seasons the way they are pitching right now....but overall CC is a stud and Beckett doesn't beat him,  Lester can put up a good fight and you can even argue he's just as good but I still don't know, Buccholz has the potential to be just as good as CC and possibly even better but by no means is there yet.

    Still.....the way they are pitching right now, thats a pretty formidable 1,2,3 punch. 
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : Silly, silly. I am not questioning who is going to the HOF. And you should follow your own advise regarding ignoring the names. Jeter is Marco Scutaro at this point on the back of his baseball card for the last year plus 46 games. Lowrie is hitting better than Jeter. Youkilis for the same period of time has a better OPS than A-Rod. Jeter 2011 OPS : .619   2010 OPS: .710 Lowrie 2011 OPS: .812  2010 OPS: .907 Scutaro 2011 OPS: .625 2010 OPS: .721 A Rod 2011 OPS: .871 2010 OPS: .847 Youk 2011 OPS: .938 2010 OPS: .975 And if you drew a 4 year graph to track career trajectory the line is going up for Youk and steady down for A-Rod. Jeter is also a steep decline, Scutaro flat and Lowrie too young to draw any valid conclusions from. The NYY are paying for HOF careers the RS are getting better results in 2011.  Subtract the first two weeks of April BTW and I think you will find that the RS pitching has been better BTW and head to head it has not been close. Let's put it this way when it comes to the pitching. If we were kids in the backyard you take CC, Colon and Garcia and I'll take Buch, Lester and Beckett. I think that our sandlot games would play out just like the three at the House the Taxpayers Built did weekend before last.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    I find it difficult to disagree with you in most cases; the least subjective sox fan on the board, in my opinion. The Arod - Youklis comparison is a little troubling as it places a high value on sabremetrics or money ball, but I think too little less on pure run production. The trend line in OPS clealry favors Youklis, but not enough to overlook that their runs scored are almost the same over the last three seasons and Arod holds a huge edge in rbi's. Simply put Youklis is a better OBP guy, which accounts for the superior OPS. They've both been hurt, although
    Youklis inability to play more than 145 games a season for most of his career is also a small factor to consider.

     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : I find it difficult to disagree with you in most cases; the least subjective sox fan on the board, in my opinion. The Arod - Youklis comparison is a little troubling as it places a high value on sabremetrics or money ball, but I think too little less on pure run production. The trend line in OPS clealry favors Youklis, but not enough to overlook that their runs scored are almost the same over the last three seasons and Arod holds a huge edge in rbi's. Simply put Youklis is a better OBP guy, which accounts for the superior OPS. They've both been hurt, although Youklis inability to play more than 145 games a season for most of his career is also a small factor to consider.
    Posted by pri360[/QUOTE]Everything you say is why I said that 3B was a draw. Now I know on the surface that was counter intuitive based on the names but they pretty much do cancel out each other. 

    If OPS was the sole factor the edge goes to Youk. The best hitter on the NYY right now is arguably Cano and it would probably benefit the NYY if A-Rod's OBP rose and SLG shrunk. 

    The 145 games played does not phase me too much. IMO it is more than balanced by the fact that Alex's hip is a slow ticking time bomb and while the NYY probably won't do it, A-Rod's career could be extended by moving to DH in 2012.
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : Your ignorance of the basic facts is breathtaking!  AROD is going in one direction.  Down in a spiral.  His fielding flat out stinks . Youk is a gold glove caliber defender for starters.  Youkilis is also one of the best pure hitters in the league with a healthy career OPS(mid to high 900's the past 4 seasons and trending up) that is all the more impressive considering he is yet to hit 30 home runs in a season, which he will possibly even this year.  AROD is a product of the chemistry lab.  Since his "outing" a couple of season ago his numbers look a whole lot more ordinary.  33 million?!  For what?  a .280 hitter with 30 home runs now if he's lucky who at this point is a butcher at third!?
    Posted by william93063[/QUOTE]

    I was pleased to see that we were getting away from the payroll and steroid issues as Boston has closed the gap somewhat in dollars spent and nobody wants to bring up the dominant player(s) of 2004 and 2007 Sox championships.
    Lets stick to stats and baseball. Why so angry anyway???

     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    SLG 2009-2011:
    Hip Rd: .532, .506, .509

    Youks: .548, .564, .529

    WTF are people talking about?


    So Youks gets better on base and is the better slugger.
     
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