Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pri360. Show pri360's posts

    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : Everything you say is why I said that 3B was a draw. Now I know on the surface that was counter intuitive based on the names but they pretty much do cancel out each other.  If OPS was the sole factor the edge goes to Youk. The best hitter on the NYY right now is arguably Cano and it would probably benefit the NYY if A-Rod's OBP rose and SLG shrunk.  The 145 games played does not phase me too much. IMO it is more than balanced by the fact that Alex's hip is a slow ticking time bomb and while the NYY probably won't do it, A-Rod's career could be extended by moving to DH in 2012.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    No argument there. I think DH is where he's heading; with Posada's contract expiring there will be less of a log jam there next year.

     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : And the sawx are 6-2 against the angels and .500 against everyone else. Too bad you don't have any more games against the angels unless you meet them in the playoffs.......and we know how well that worked out the last time that happened. 
    Posted by --The---Babe-1[/QUOTE]

    You forgot to mention that the Sox have an even better record against the New York Yankees: 5-1 (3-0 in the Bronx).  It's a good thing Boston has a lot more games with New York to fatten up their win total. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mfymfy. Show mfymfy's posts

    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    Geez, William, A Rod is a butcher at third? And kind of a bum as a hitter?

    I'll play fivekatz's backyard game because I like it. If it's the 9th inning of the seventh game of the World Series and the bases are loaded with two out, do I want Youklis or A Rod batting on my team? Or Scutaro or Jeter? Then ask yourself who the opposing pitcher and manager would rather pitch to.

    Those are the beautiful intangibles that make players who they are.
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : Your ignorance of the basic facts is breathtaking!  AROD is going in one direction.  Down in a spiral.  His fielding flat out stinks . Youk is a gold glove caliber defender for starters.  Youkilis is also one of the best pure hitters in the league with a healthy career OPS(mid to high 900's the past 4 seasons and trending up) that is all the more impressive considering he is yet to hit 30 home runs in a season, which he will possibly even this year.  AROD is a product of the chemistry lab.  Since his "outing" a couple of season ago his numbers look a whole lot more ordinary.  33 million?!  For what?  a .280 hitter with 30 home runs now if he's lucky who at this point is a butcher at third!?
    Posted by william93063[/QUOTE]

    not to pile on - but since more stringent steroid testing (see link below); Arod has won two MVP awards. I suggest his decrease in production has more to do with age and hip surgery which Lowell could not come back from and Utley is still struggling with in spite of being 3 years younger. Youklis never won a gold glove at third and the one year that he did win (2007) was the year that Teixeira split his time between the national league and the american league.




     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?


    Which do you like better, Babe ... "Stankees" or "Hankees"?  "Yankmees" is definitely a classic too.  Since you like "sawx" so much, I figure I will let you NY fans decide. 

    Your pitchers have settled down alright, awesome pitching staff.  But you can't beat the Sox. 

    Oh, and you can't beat the Sox.  BTW, the Sox won 5 of 6.

    Keep facing loser teams and think you have a good pitching staff, Texas without Hamilton for one, but lets look at real facts:  you lost 5 of 6 to the Sox.

    Lost 5 of 6 to the Sox.  Ohh, and another thing, you lost 5 of 6 to the Sox.

    I am leaning towards Stankees myself .....SmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmileSmile
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]Which do you like better, Babe ... "Stankees" or "Hankees"?  "Yankmees" is definitely a classic too.  Since you like "sawx" so much, I figure I will let you NY fans decide.  Your pitchers have settled down alright, awesome pitching staff.  But you can't beat the Sox.  Oh, and you can't beat the Sox.  BTW, the Sox won 5 of 6. Keep facing loser teams and think you have a good pitching staff, Texas without Hamilton for one, but lets look at real facts:  you lost 5 of 6 to the Sox. Lost 5 of 6 to the Sox .  Ohh, and another thing, you lost 5 of 6 to the Sox. I am leaning towards Stankees myself .....
    Posted by soxmeister[/QUOTE]









    and came back to win the ws
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    Dog days will decide who has the better rotation. Lester and Buch are continuing another year of solid starting. Beckett has decided to show up for work this year. I like the Red Sox rotation, through dog days.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]Geez, William, A Rod is a butcher at third? And kind of a bum as a hitter? I'll play fivekatz's backyard game because I like it. If it's the 9th inning of the seventh game of the World Series and the bases are loaded with two out, do I want Youklis or A Rod batting on my team? Or Scutaro or Jeter? Then ask yourself who the opposing pitcher and manager would rather pitch to. Those are the beautiful intangibles that make players who they are.
    Posted by mfymfy[/QUOTE]Keep in mind Youkilis is less likely to make an out, stats are a valid predictor of future events and A-Rod had exactly one season that his intangibles ever delivered in the post season.

    It is two different kinds of terror for a pitcher. You are more afraid that A-Rod will take you deep and you are more afraid that Youkilis won't get himself out trying.

    The Jeter argument is no contest, I'd have Jeter hit over Scutaro but if I am Giardi I am wishing it was any one of 6 other guys on my roster. I admire Derek jeter and take no joy in saying this but the guy is facing what all players face, mortality. No way the NYY 3 years ago would have told his agent to go shop him or argue with him over his next contract. They knew Jeter has aged into an average offensive SS working his way towards offensive mediocrity at a very fast pace.

    Intangibles is the Tek fans argument and it covers declining performance.

    Jete OPS:

    09: .871
    10: .710
    11: .619

    this same argument started with Tekkies in 2008:

    Tek OPS:

    07: .787
    08: .672
    09: .703 *went PT upon the VMart trade

    Currently Tek is at .585 because once the slide begins due to age it seldom stops.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    Oh mfymfy, I forgot to say that the post you were responding to was trash talk and in that regard you are right. A-Rod has not ever been the quality 3B he was as a SS but he is not a butcher and he is an excellent hitter. His contract is ten kinds of stupid but that isn't his fault that he is signed until he is 42, he and Boras didn't put a gun to the Steinbrenner's heads. He is a fine player. Like Manny Ramirez he is a narccositic person but that wasn't that person's argument.

    Right now only evan Longoria is head and shoulders better than A-Rod.

     
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : Keep in mind Youkilis is less likely to make an out, stats are a valid predictor of future events and A-Rod had exactly one season that his intangibles ever delivered in the post season. It is two different kinds of terror for a pitcher. You are more afraid that A-Rod will take you deep and you are more afraid that Youkilis won't get himself out trying. The Jeter argument is no contest, I'd have Jeter hit over Scutaro but if I am Giardi I am wishing it was any one of 6 other guys on my roster. I admire Derek jeter and take no joy in saying this but the guy is facing what all players face, mortality. No way the NYY 3 years ago would have told his agent to go shop him or argue with him over his next contract. They knew Jeter has aged into an average offensive SS working his way towards offensive mediocrity at a very fast pace. Intangibles is the Tek fans argument and it covers declining performance. Jete OPS: 09: .871 10: .710 11: .619 this same argument started with Tekkies in 2008: Tek OPS: 07: .787 08: .672 09: .703 *went PT upon the VMart trade Currently Tek is at .585 because once the slide begins due to age it seldom stops.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Your logic is sound and you make a compelling case here.  Still it was nice to see Tek go yard last night!
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]Oh mfymfy, I forgot to say that the post you were responding to was trash talk and in that regard you are right. A-Rod has not ever been the quality 3B he was as a SS but he is not a butcher and he is an excellent hitter. His contract is ten kinds of stupid but that isn't his fault that he is signed until he is 42, he and Boras didn't put a gun to the Steinbrenner's heads. He is a fine player. Like Manny Ramirez he is a narccositic person but that wasn't that person's argument. Right now only evan Longoria is head and shoulders better than A-Rod.  
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Okay I admit it, I may have been stirring the pot a wee bit but your analysis about the A Fraud seems to back up my "trash talk" more than it doesn't!
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : Your logic is sound and you make a compelling case here.  Still it was nice to see Tek go yard last night!
    Posted by william93063[/QUOTE]Yes it was. And there is a place for guys in decline on MLB teams because they still may be as good as an average replacement (Jeter right now) or as good as most bench players (Tek right now).

    Whenever there is a conversation between NYY and RS fans there is going to be some bravado. And fans nature is gloss over weakness and exaggerate strengths when debating the pros and cons of their team with others from outside the tribe. Sort of unique to east Coast fans we rip the heck of our own amongst each other but beware to any outsider that does the same.

    Back to the OP. It is a long season and lots can happen as we found out the hard way last season but as of today the RS have a deeper rotation even with Aceves and Wakefield and when Lackey returns he pitches like he did in 2010 not even one of his better seasons that margin grows. I wouldn't expect most NYY to concede that point but most third party observers would.
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : Great posts katz, The only hair I would split is I think you are giving Russell Martin too much credit - he started the year hot, but has already cooled (.242 in May with a .776 OPS).  By year's end, I don't expect there will be much if any advantage over Salty, though I'm sure he will see more playing time, and does have the stronger throwing arm.  It may still come out to advantage NY, but not by much.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]I'd agree but that was a stretch I wasn't prepared to make in an attempt to demonstrate with some objectivity that the starting line-ups were pretty much equally good. And keep in mind when Cervelli gets back Martin-Cervelli is likely to be a stronger tandem than Salty-Tek.

    BTW sometimes that is OK. Cano is the better player at 2B, but RS fans and the RS have a ton reasons to like Pedey and similarly by the end of 2011 it is very likely RS fans will like Salty with Tek as the back-up.
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : Great posts katz, The only hair I would split is I think you are giving Russell Martin too much credit - he started the year hot, but has already cooled (.242 in May with a .776 OPS).  By year's end, I don't expect there will be much if any advantage over Salty, though I'm sure he will see more playing time, and does have the stronger throwing arm.  It may still come out to advantage NY, but not by much.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]
    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=al&qual=n&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]It is along season and things will shake out but you are dellusional if you think the RS line-up doesn't stack up against the best lien-ups in the AL. I am not a big fan of head to head comparisons but for grins: 1B. Gonzalez v. Texieria - advantage A-Gon -RS 2B. Pedey v. Cano - advantage Cano - NYY SS. Lowrie/Scutaro v. Jeter - age is a bummer advantage RS 3B. Youk v. A-Rod - slight advantage Youk or a draw - Draw LF. Gardner v. Crawford - over 162 this will be Crawford by a mile -RS CF Ellsbury v. Granderson - Granderson - NYY RF Drew v. Swisher - draw- Draw C Salty/Tek v. Martin - Martin _ NYY DH - Ortiz - Posada/Jones - Ortiz - advantage Ortiz -RS So in this line-up the RS seem to have an advantage at 4 positions, the NYY 3 and 2 are a draw. The RS appear to have adraw in IF defense, an edge in OF defense and at C. The RS seem to fielding a line-up that stacks up. ---fivekatz ----------------------------------------------------------------- Some wishing and hoping there, draws that aren't really draws unless you're a fan, but hey, who's counting? (Actually, you are, in this case.)  I don't see it as a push, but I can't blame a fan, although with V-Mart and Beltre, it was closer and a better constructed offense. But back to SPC's assertion about rotation superiority. I like the top 3, but in general, the Yanks have had great success matching up against them. Beyond that, it's the blackest of black holes and the Yanks are solid thru 5. Like I said, long season.
    Posted by mfymfy[/QUOTE]

    The Yanks have had great success matching up against them?  Really?

    I get why you are happy about the performances of Colon and Garcia thus far but there isn't a part of you that understands that they are overperforming immensely?  The Top 3 of the Sox trumps the entire Yankees rotation regardless of who the 4 or 5's are.
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : It is along season and things will shake out but you are dellusional if you think the RS line-up doesn't stack up against the best lien-ups in the AL. I am not a big fan of head to head comparisons but for grins: 1B. Gonzalez v. Texieria - advantage A-Gon -RS 2B. Pedey v. Cano - advantage Cano - NYY SS. Lowrie/Scutaro v. Jeter - age is a bummer advantage RS 3B. Youk v. A-Rod - slight advantage Youk or a draw - Draw LF. Gardner v. Crawford - over 162 this will be Crawford by a mile -RS CF Ellsbury v. Granderson - Granderson - NYY RF Drew v. Swisher - draw- Draw C Salty/Tek v. Martin - Martin _ NYY DH - Ortiz - Posada/Jones - Ortiz - advantage Ortiz -RS So in this line-up the RS seem to have an advantage at 4 positions, the NYY 3 and 2 are a draw. The RS appear to have adraw in IF defense, an edge in OF defense and at C. The RS seem to fielding a line-up that stacks up. 
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    I guarantee you by season's end we will be giving the Red Sox the edge at catcher.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    The RS appear to have adraw in IF defense, an edge in OF defense and at C. The RS seem to fielding a line-up that stacks up.
    Posted by fivekatz

    I figure you are serious

    but I'm just checking

    without getting into super stats

    I mighta gave you the edge in the inf, us at C

    and a draw in the OF

    OK, so swish looks like a clown out there but he gets the job done

    tough to beat grandy and gardner IMO
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    ''I guarantee you by season's end we will be giving the Red Sox the edge at catcher  ''  SoxPatsCelts1988


    define '' we'' 


    you mean  both team bases, 

    just RSN   or just homers like you

     

    '' I guarantee you ''

    LOL
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : I guarantee you by season's end we will be giving the Red Sox the edge at catcher.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]
    When Russell Martin was Jarrod Saltalamacchia's current age, Martin already had made two All Star Game appearances and had won a Gold Glove and a Silver Slugger Award. Martin, who is only two years older than Saltalamacchia, has been valued at 14.1 WAR* in 708 career games. Saltalamacchia has been valued at 0.6 WAR in 281 career games.

    Why do you "guarantee" that the Red Sox will have the edge at catcher by season's end?

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at Baseball Reference:
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martiru01.shtml
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/saltaja01.shtml
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    Not yet. Lots of season to go. He can never be fully vindicated because there was no point in posting countless threads trashing the Yankees, as if it were a two team league. Example: Smiley certainly didn't see Tampa Bay coming. --- BostonTrollSpanker
    -------------------------------------------------

    There should be room for a sense of humor here, and the freedom to compare your team favorably to your biggest rivals. I've never heard of that being unacceptable on any team's baseball forum. And one thread a week or less shouldn't have bothered anyone.

    You're spanking the wrong people.
     
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    Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?

    In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it possible that the Red Sox have 3 starters better than the Yankees only good starter (CC)? : When Russell Martin was Jarrod Saltalamacchia's current age, Martin already had made two All Star Game appearances and had won a Gold Glove and a Silver Slugger Award. Martin, who is only two years older than Saltalamacchia, has been valued at 14.1 WAR* in 708 career games. Saltalamacchia has been valued at 0.6 WAR in 281 career games. Why do you "guarantee" that the Red Sox will have the edge at catcher by season's end? * Wins Above Replacement as reported at Baseball Reference : http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martiru01.shtml http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/saltaja01.shtml
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps the comment was not well thought out, but Salty so far has been a huge bust at the big league level.  He had been projected to be much further along in his development and it has been delayed partly due to his throwing issues and his inability to consistently hit big league pitching.  He finally appears to be catching life, pun intended, and these WAR ratings will improve this season. 0.6 above will improve.
     

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