Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eternalsummer. Show Eternalsummer's posts

    Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    I wish the Sox and El had been able to get her done by splitting the difference on his request v. their offer. This could have been closed with a solid offer of $80- $90M with a stretch to $100M -- if he's healthy throughout! There are few out there as athletic.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    They offered him 100M and Boras asked for 130M. I think anymore than 6/108 is too much. Thats probably too much, but its where I would go for a guy like Ells.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    $100M/6 was too much anyways.

    I wish Jacoby all the luck in the world, except when he plays us.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    $100M/6 was too much anyways.

    I wish Jacoby all the luck in the world, except when he plays us.



    I know you're not one to pay him a lot of $$ for a long term, but, boy, I'm concerned about the offense without him.  This is the guy who made things go.  He's the best leadoff hitter this team has had in years and I'd hate to see where this team would have been without him.  Which is why I'd be willing to go six figures with him. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    The Sox are certainly a better team with him in the lineup. We are the best team in baseball, but not by a whole lot. Any step back and we will be hard pressed to repeat. Simply replacing Ellsbury with Bradley will not be sufficient. We will need to improve in other areas to make up the difference. I don't like to get into the dollar amounts. It is too easy to spend other people's money. I would say that the Sox must have raked in quite a bit with the post season run this year. But it is up to John Henry to decide how much he wants to spend.  I don't think Ben will have a blank check. My best guess is that Ellsbury definitely leaves, Drew probably leaves, Napoli probably stays and Salty possibly stays.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    $100M/6 was too much anyways.

    I wish Jacoby all the luck in the world, except when he plays us.



    I know you're not one to pay him a lot of $$ for a long term, but, boy, I'm concerned about the offense without him.  This is the guy who made things go.  He's the best leadoff hitter this team has had in years and I'd hate to see where this team would have been without him.  Which is why I'd be willing to go six figures with him. 



    It will be a tough hole to fill, but with $100M a lot can be accomplished.

    Look what we got for about $100M last winter:

    $39M Victorino

    $26M Ortiz

    $13M Napoli

    $10M Gomes

    $9.5M Drew

    $4.25M Uehara

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigdog1. Show bigdog1's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury


    If Ellsbury really wanted to stay he would have taken the 6/100 million contract.  I wish him luck in the future!  But no way do I go anymore than that!  Take the pick and move on and keep building.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    If Ellsbury didnt fired his agent, he would have gotten his contract done two years ago and he would be in his year three out of year five or six with the Red Sox.

    Since he hired Boras, of course, Boras is trying to tell Ellsbury to take the best contract he can find.  Boston knows that.

    Boston isnt lowballing the offer to Ellsbury.  They just knew that Boras is going to lie on everything such as to say "Boston is like 20 to 40 millions dollars short from another team"  But was there another team?? probably not. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    In response to bigdog1's comment:


    If Ellsbury really wanted to stay he would have taken the 6/100 million contract.  I wish him luck in the future!  But no way do I go anymore than that!  Take the pick and move on and keep building.



    I agree.  Like paps, I think he just had his mind set on going ellswhere.

    That said, I think JBJ will be fine.  Not as good as Ells, but if he can be 75% of Ells, the $18M per that we save can cure a lot of ills.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from lasitter. Show lasitter's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    I'm glad he's gone. I just hope he ends up getting a sky-high contract that financially cripples one of our big competitors.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    $100M/6 was too much anyways.

    I wish Jacoby all the luck in the world, except when he plays us.



    I know you're not one to pay him a lot of $$ for a long term, but, boy, I'm concerned about the offense without him.  This is the guy who made things go.  He's the best leadoff hitter this team has had in years and I'd hate to see where this team would have been without him.  Which is why I'd be willing to go six figures with him. 



    It will be a tough hole to fill, but with $100M a lot can be accomplished.

    Look what we got for about $100M last winter:

    $39M Victorino

    $26M Ortiz

    $13M Napoli

    $10M Gomes

    $9.5M Drew

    $4.25M Uehara



    Now Moon, you know that is 58 million in '13 salaries and Ellsbury would cost 18-22 million yearly.

    The real comparison is that you can pay Victorio, Gomes and a minor leaguer the same as you would pay Ellsbury. The team is not concerned about paying him 20 million the next 3 seasons. It is about paying him that much ages 34-36. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    If $100 million is low-balling Ellsbury, it was nice having you here Ellsbury. Thanks for the memories.

    As for him playing for the Yankees, is he really old enough?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from scash2013. Show scash2013's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    Didn't we have the exact same coversation when Damon left?

    We will be fine. We do not need to overpay a good, but not great player who is on the wrong side of 30.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

     Maybe winning it all this year makes Ellsbury at least think about giving Boston somewhat of a sentimental hometown discount.I don't think he hates it here and can't wait to leave.He's familar with the city,Fenway,the fans,the coaches and other players so there's a certain level of comfort for him staying with the Sox.He also knows the Sox are usually in a good position to go to the postseason almost every year,so that probably figures into the whole equation too.

      My guess is if the Red Sox make an offer somewhere close to the highest bidder for him,he stays here.At least that's what I'm hoping....  

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc1944. Show MadMc1944's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury


    If Ells stays in the AL East---he helps us a lot more than he hurts us IF he stays healthy. He would play almost 60 games against our opponents and 20 against us.

    If Nap, Salty and Drew walk to opposing  teams they better learn to hit the low outside pitch. Pitching coaches were not sitting Idly by during the playoffs.

    I would not be one bit disappointed if all four left. I hope they all get the contracts they hope for. They were great assets to have and they were excellent teammates by all accounts.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    personally I would be ok paying him the 130MM/6 that Boras wants just to make softy go nuclear.....

    Henry can afford teh extra 5MM per year.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    is his decison a forgone conclusion that he's leaving?...i'm just asking...does that leave no chance for a turnaround...on Ellsbury's part at least??...

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from fl+adam,. Show fl+adam,'s posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    I personally think 6 and 100 total is plenty for the guy.  He has average power and average OBP.  He obviously has great speed and defense, but that only goes so far.  16m per is all that is worth to me.  I obviously prefer to spend that 16 on someone with more OBP or power and good D.  Choo is certainly not as fast, but has much higher OBP and much more power, and with his RF exp must have a better arm(doesn't everyone?).  Choo seems like a better value then ellsbury.

     

    Beltran is the fall back to me.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    personally I would be ok paying him the 130MM/6 that Boras wants just to make softy go nuclear.....

    Henry can afford teh extra 5MM per year.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Tongue Out

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    In response to jete02fan's comment:

    is his decison a forgone conclusion that he's leaving?...i'm just asking...does that leave no chance for a turnaround...on Ellsbury's part at least??...



    I certainly haven't come to that conclusion.  IMO he's going to go to the highest bidder and the Sox will be in the running until the end. 

    My crystal ball tells me that it's going to come down to two or three teams and Boras will make his (oh, excuse me.. Ellsbury will make...) his decision based on money.  That certainly doesn't preclude the Red Sox from being in the running.  Who knows?  There may even be a 1% or 2% "hometown discount" involved at the end.  That is, he MAY take $105MM from Boston rather than $107MM from someone else ... if he likes being here. 


    As I like to say, what's he going to buy with $107MM that he can't afford with $105MM?  Smile

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SleeStack1. Show SleeStack1's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    In response to fl+adam,'s comment:

    I personally think 6 and 100 total is plenty for the guy.  He has average power and average OBP.  He obviously has great speed and defense, but that only goes so far.  16m per is all that is worth to me.  I obviously prefer to spend that 16 on someone with more OBP or power and good D.  Choo is certainly not as fast, but has much higher OBP and much more power, and with his RF exp must have a better arm(doesn't everyone?).  Choo seems like a better value then ellsbury.

     

    Beltran is the fall back to me.



    I also prefer Choo at $16M per.  Beltran....meh....unless under market.

     

    I'd take the chance on JBJ and shore up elsewhwere with the cash.

     

    If they overpay...overpay McCann.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    $100M/6 was too much anyways.

    I wish Jacoby all the luck in the world, except when he plays us.



    I know you're not one to pay him a lot of $$ for a long term, but, boy, I'm concerned about the offense without him.  This is the guy who made things go.  He's the best leadoff hitter this team has had in years and I'd hate to see where this team would have been without him.  Which is why I'd be willing to go six figures with him. 



    It will be a tough hole to fill, but with $100M a lot can be accomplished.

    Look what we got for about $100M last winter:

    $39M Victorino

    $26M Ortiz

    $13M Napoli

    $10M Gomes

    $9.5M Drew

    $4.25M Uehara



    Now Moon, you know that is 58 million in '13 salaries and Ellsbury would cost 18-22 million yearly.

    The real comparison is that you can pay Victorio, Gomes and a minor leaguer the same as you would pay Ellsbury. The team is not concerned about paying him 20 million the next 3 seasons. It is about paying him that much ages 34-36. 



    Yes, I know the comparison was somewhat apples to oranges, but the total money spent is still relevent to the debate, especially if Henry is willing to go over the luxury limit as a one-time deal in 2014, as the budget restets itself after 2014.

    Going by just the yearly dollar amount, I'll take Victorino + Uehara over Ellsbury, plus the shorter commitment factor. (I know I am being selective here, as I would not take Dempster and Gomes over Jacoby.)

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    Maybe I overvalue OPS and undervalue speed, but Jacoby had the 7th best OPS on his team this year. He was just .010 ahed of the 9th place guy.

    Sorry, but pass.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    personally I would be ok paying him the 130MM/6 that Boras wants just to make softy go nuclear.....

    Henry can afford teh extra 5MM per year.



    Yes Henry can afford the extra $$, but the problem is that Boras is already adding the extra $$$ on top of it

    Henry  just hate to see Boras winning the battle between him and the owners.  That is why Henry do not care if he lose the battle with Boras cuz he won three WS titles!!!  

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from patrickford. Show patrickford's posts

    Re: Is It Really Smart of the Sox to Low-Ball Ellsbury

    With Ellsbury you need a new stat. Rather than OPS you need his on-base + slugging + his total bases from stolen bases. 

     
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