Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rightymclefty. Show rightymclefty's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    Texiera remains one of the premier power hitters in baseball
    He's averaged 37 Hrs and 117 RBI with the Yankees, despite a declining BA.
    Let's see Gonzalez come close to those numbers.
    Gonzales has only hit 30 HRs 3 times, only hit .300 3 times, only knocked in more than 117 runs once.
    He's not a .300 career hitter. Mostly a myth as to his production.
    Also, Texiera has range at 1st base that Gonzalez never dreamed of.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    I was ok with Crawford and Beckett going but am I the only one who is upset about losing the team's best hitter. I just wish that he wasn't part of this deal. So yes, to answer the question, I do think it is a big deal.
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    If you evaluate this trade line by line then OF COURSE loosing AGON is a big deal.  So yes the power wasn't there this year, but it had been lately in the second half and he is beyond a doubt a 30+ HR guy.  He still could drive in runs hit for average and was an elite hitter with men in scoring position, plus he play GG defense.

    But at the end of the day you can always take that money you spent on him and give it to a player who can produce equal to what he gave you so in reality the only thing that stings about losing AGON to me was the fact that we gave up top pitching prospect and hitting prospect Case Kelly and Anthony Rizzo for him.

    But lets not forget Gonzo made the trade, and the fact that they were able to unload Beckett and Crawford and only pay $12 million in total over the life of there contracts is something that my brain is still trying to digest.

    You have to take the good with the bad, and here the good far outweighs the bad. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    Texiera remains one of the premier power hitters in baseball He's averaged 37 Hrs and 117 RBI with the Yankees, despite a declining BA. Let's see Gonzalez come close to those numbers. Gonzales has only hit 30 HRs 3 times, only hit .300 3 times, only knocked in more than 117 runs once. He's not a .300 career hitter. Mostly a myth as to his production. Also, Texiera has range at 1st base that Gonzalez never dreamed of.
    rightymclefty[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the laugh!

    SLG%      ('10 - '12)             

    AGon          .513   19th
    Ellsbury      .487               
    McCutchen  .486
    Youk           .485
    Teix            .485   37th  ('12  43rd)

    OBP%     ('10 - '12)

    AGon      .386
    Y Molina  .350
    Beltre     .349
    Teix       .348  72nd    ('12  70th .335)

    How much does Yankee Stadium help?

    Road   OPS  2010 - 2012

    AGon   .924  6th
    Rasmus  .815
    Uggla    .814
    VMart    .804
    Soriano .800
    Teix    .794   40th

    Production is a myth?  Please stop with the RBI!

    RISP    '10   '11   '12           RISP w 2 outs

    AGon  1.28  .924   1.13                1.00    .861   .954
    Teix    .963  .952  .798                 .951   .840   .497



     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    The easy answer is yes...what they lost was a proven middle of the order run producing bat, a player still in his prime that teams build lineups around. A player that will be hard to replace in the next few years (unless they sign Hamilton)...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    He was the Red Sox's best player, both in the field and at the plate, but the Sox had to make the move in order to rebuild the team. I'm sure he's happy to have some new surroundings, too. He's off to a good start in Chavez Ravine.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    In Response to Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal? : wake up...the only reason Crawford and Beckett were taken was becasue LA wanted Gonzalez.  " wished he wasn't part of the deal "....clueless. _________________________________ Curt Schilling Deadbeat Fraud Clown
    Posted by bellhorn_[/QUOTE]
    Please fill me in on all of your god given baseball knowledge. You better learn how to spell first before you call someone clueless you moron.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    I think anytime you lose a quality hitter/fielder like Agon it is a big deal, but in this case it was a good deal. Even if we leave Beckett out of this, if you consider the CC contract alone, and the fact that the Sox could acquire numerous OF's to give CC like production for 1/4 of what they were paying CC,....that means to not make this trade we think Agon has a value of 40MM per year.....insane. Tough to give up Agon....yes....but in the long run, the Dodgers will regret this trade.....unless they win a WS this year or next....then it will be worth it for them. Unfortunately we were not going to with this cast.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    In Response to Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal? : Please fill me in on all of your god given baseball knowledge. You better learn how to spell first before you call someone clueless you moron.
    Posted by jpBsSoxFan[/QUOTE]
    He was his usual insulting self, but this was a rare moment that he was correct. No way LAD accepts the deal unless Gonzalez is a part of it. I'm with you on Gonzo -- great overall player who will have 20+ homers and 100+ RBI in this down season. But given the state of the franchise, he had to go.


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    Losing him as a hitter may be a loss for the Red Sox, but seeing his contract to move to the Dodgers's payroll is not even a huge loss.  But Agonz's biggest problem is that he never make a clutch hits when the team need to try to make a comeback wins.   How many times we all have seen making a game winning homerun?  Ross have done it many times this year, Salty have done it many times this year, Papi have done it many times in his career as a Red Sox players especially in post season, Manny have done it in regular season or post season, etc.   Agonz is a #3 hitter and suppose to make a big hits in the late games for most of the time.  Right now he is really a perfect #5 or #6 hitter!!!


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rightymclefty. Show rightymclefty's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    Nice cherrypicking stats.
    Of course an guy with a .320 average is going to have a higher OPS than a guy with a .253 BA.
    Oh, I forgot, RBIs don't count. At least for stat gerbils.
    The next big late game hit Gonzalez get, will be his first.
    Glad him and his sour puss are gone.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    Losing Adrian's offensive production and stellar glove are a pretty big deal.  Of course, a necessary sacrifice for the bigger picture.  But, my concern is, what if Ortiz prices/years himself out of Boston next year?  We have a black hole in the middle of the line-up that is going to be tough to fill (2 bona fide sluggers).  

    That would be a tall enough order for the off-season by itself.  But that is probably priority #2 after getting a bona fide starting pitcher or 2.  So, there is just a lot on Ben's plate.  Unless the plan is to really rebuild with an eye on 2014/15.  Which, is not going to fly with Sox fans/media.  Sure, everyone is real keen on the Great Cleansing right now.  But, if they do not field a club competing for Al East crown next year, there is going to be much weeping and gnashing of teeth.  This is Boston.  And it ain't pre-2004 Boston.  There is no room for rebuilding.  But they have a lot to reload.

    I suppose they could plan to roll with Buchholz, Lester, Lackey, Doubront and hope that De la Rosa really is the monster Dodgerworld projects him to be.  Then they could focus on getting a ... well, here is the issue too ... who?  Carlos Lee?  For that money?  I don't know.  Hamilton?  Uh.  Scary stuff.

    Who are the Sox 3-4 next year?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rightymclefty. Show rightymclefty's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    Justin Morneau is available, finally healthy, and loves hitting in Fenway Park.
    Former MVP, also has a good glove.
    Could be a perfect fit. Twins were trying to deal him before July 31.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    Agreed, space. trading for Adrian was a Big deal and just as big, trading him away. BC was on WEEI this morning. Essentially said they will put the money back into the team, he plans on putting a competitive team on the field in 2013, intimated going after Hamilton. Was asked if he heard from Theo, said he had and Epstein admitted some FA mistakes were made
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    Right, and Hamilton would relish being in this Fish Bowl with all the temptations and the media/fans hounding him at every dinner/lunch....You can see his wife saying "just say no" to EVER becoming a Sox player. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    People don't get it. They won't come, the free agents are not going to sign here. Not after all of this nonsense, and the statement that the team's policy is if you do or don't perform here, remember don't question management, or the manager, or you're gone. Heck, they even know how to get out of contracts. Not quite the organization I want to play for if my "security" of staying a Sox was important.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    In Response to Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?:
    [QUOTE]Right, and Hamilton would relish being in this Fish Bowl with all the temptations and the media/fans hounding him at every dinner/lunch....You can see his wife saying "just say no" to EVER becoming a Sox player. 
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, no way the Hamiltons come to Boston.  And, on the other side, Josh is 32 and there is no way he is going less than 8-10 years with this contract.  So, even if they got 3-4 Josh Hamilton prime years out of him (questionable), they are still taking on the same kind of contract albatross they just managed to free themselves from.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    In Response to Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal? : Yeah, no way the Hamiltons come to Boston.  And, on the other side, Josh is 32 and there is no way he is going less than 8-10 years with this contract.  So, even if they got 3-4 Josh Hamilton prime years out of him (questionable), they are still taking on the same kind of contract albatross they just managed to free themselves from.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    Hamilton's going where the money is, space. He's already said he won't give Texas a hometown discount. I think in the end, he'll stay where he is, but I thought the same about Pujols
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    In Response to Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?:
    [QUOTE]You know, I look at Laroche and the production he's had in his career. The Sox actually had him. He hit a couple of left field HRs in the short time they had him. Traded, inexplicably for a singles hitting 1st baseman. Laroche was relatively cheap and had a good glove, too. Never understood that trade.
    Posted by rightymclefty[/QUOTE]

    Awful awful trade that slipped under the radar.  LaRoche is part of the reason the Nats are in first place.  Great second half hitter.  Great value.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    In Response to Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?:
    [QUOTE]Gonzo is not a singles hitter. He is a 35-30 homer 50 doubles 110 ribbie type player. Saying he is a singles hitter is an insult to a great talent.
    Posted by EnchiladaT[/QUOTE]

    He was referring to Casey Kotchman, not Adrian Gonzalez
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxfanwest. Show soxfanwest's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    In Response to Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?:
    [QUOTE]People don't get it. They won't come, the free agents are not going to sign here. Not after all of this nonsense, and the statement that the team's policy is if you do or don't perform here, remember don't question management, or the manager, or you're gone. Heck, they even know how to get out of contracts. Not quite the organization I want to play for if my "security" of staying a Sox was important.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    As much as I want to agree with you ( and I did take this approach myself) I have come to the conclusion that all ball players at some point in their careers are "coin operated". If you dangle enough money in front of them, they will take it. There's only a couple of instances that come to mind in which players took less money to stay where they were playing or where they really wanted to play. Kirby Puckett, comes to mind as well as Jarod Weaver. I forget if Cliff Lee took less to play for Philly instead of the NYY. I believe Ryne Sandberg Took what the Cubs offered him during his playing days. None the less, you bring up a good point.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    I think it will greatly affect future free agents, as least ones available in 2012-2013  offseason. You would have to be in bunker without internet/TV to not know that the Red Sox is the last organization anyone should want to play for, or the ungrateful fans who cheer on radio talk shows and break out champagne as if the purging of Beckett, CC, AGON was some national event. I know if I was a player, I'd take the second best offer or any offer that wasn't from BC/LL.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?

    You can hate Beckett/CC, and surely I threw venom there way OFTEN...but I can look myself in the mirror at the end of the day, and say I accepted they were Red Sox and hoped they would do better. I was actually thinking about CC for next year after rehab. I saw some good things from him in his 2012 short season. Also, Beckett still helped the team win in 2007....He has been a sheer disappointment last few years overall-but more so in 2012, obviously. Doesn't mean  he won't regain the touch with LA.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kirbyrob. Show kirbyrob's posts

    Re: Is losing Gonzalez really that big of a deal?


    Maybe Gonzalez does bounce back, but it is possible he goes the way of Mark Teixeira.

    When Texeira was first brought on with the Yankees in 2009, he had a monster year, posting a .948 OPS. His OPS in 2010 dropped 100 points and many Yankee fans attributed it to either just a case of a down year or bad luck.
    As a Yankee Fan, I for one (and can probably speak for my fellow fan friends) I h ave noooo problem w/Teixeira. None at all, actually. I would hedge a bet that if he was on your team, You'd appreciate what you have in him.

    I think its 'cuz he's not a Pre-Madonna, Whiny, Malcontent who has no respect for the game he plays.

    He's part of a TEAM. If the Yankees ever behaved the way the 2011-2012 BRS have, I would certainly want every player (A) GONE.
     

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