Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine? : No, and that was my point in my earlier post. Most of us DON'T watch a ton of the minor league games and only go by what we read. But there has to be a reason why one is ranked in the top ten by the people who do watch all these games and the other two don't crack the top 50. I don't pretend to know the answer as I haven't watched any of the three enough to form an opinion. And I don't know where you read Montero is a "catching machine". From what I read about him he's average to below average at best behind the dish. I know he did struggle a bit this season and has had some injury problems, but again, that's only what I know from reading about him. How many games of lavarnway have you watched? Do you study him? I know you are far from an expert.
    Posted by The--Babe--[/QUOTE]

    I haven't seen any games of Lavarnway but I have seen his stat line in 2011 and it looks superior to the Yankees two catching prospects.  Just saying...
     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    "This ranking is updated weekly."

    The BA page you linked hasn't been updated since November 2010. Which ranking are you talking about?

    In any case, it was a silly question in the first place. Both Montero and Romine fully deserve to be put ahead of Lavarnway at this time.
     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    "Then tell me why Montero appears to be better?"

    He's just 21!!! I know his power has taken a vacation this year (perhaps an injury?), but for a kid who has done THAT much at THAT age, his future is indubitably quite bright.

    Maybe he needs to give up catching for his health? Doesn't seem to be any great shakes behind the plate anyways.
     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    Conventional wisdom indicates that Montero is the better prospect but the trend lines are starting to indicate that Lavarnway is starting to pass him. Montero has been the golden boy for a while now. Will it continue or will he fade?

    Or will he just plateau?


     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine? : Yes I have but I said over the last several years.  He's been around since 2005.  Would this work better?  Robinson Cano is the only very good player they've developed from their farm system over the past 10 seasons.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    While they may not be HOF's, I do believe soriano, nick johnson, wang, westbrook,juan rivera,navarro,melky, kennedy, thames. Not all stars, but some have been decent ballplayers and some derailed by injuries (which are impossible to scout).

    Dave Robertson seems to be the real thing. And, like him or not, Joba has emerged as a solid reliever. Granted, not living up to the starter role originally planned, but again an injury seemed to determine his fate.

    Again, not really a list of perennial all stars, but they have all carved out at least  servicable major league careers.

     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    Judging prospects is the world's biggest crap shoot.  A propsect that hasn't played in the majors is the biggest question mark there is.  Look at Lars Anderson, he looked lost when he had his chance.   Lavarnway will get a call up and then we will see.   But you have to respect the way the guy continues raking, it will improve his rating.

     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]This guy isn't even ranked as one of the top 10 Red Sox Prospects; however he is projected to be in the starting lineup in 2014: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2011/2610882.html TOP TEN PROSPECTS 1. Casey Kelly, rhp 2. Jose Iglesias, ss 3. Anthony Rizzo, 1b 4. Anthony Ranaudo, rhp 5. Drake Britton, lhp 6. Reymond Fuentes, of 7. Josh Reddick, of 8. Felix Doubront, lhp 9. Stolmy Pimentel, rhp 10. Garin Cecchini, 3b BEST TOOLS Best Hitter for Average Garin Cecchini Best Power Hitter Anthony Rizzo Best Strike-Zone Discipline Che-Hsuan Lin Fastest Baserunner Felix Sanchez Best Athlete Reymond Fuentes Best Fastball Drake Britton Best Curveball Casey Kelly Best Slider Alex Wilson Best Changeup Stolmy Pimentel Best Control Chris Balcom-Miller Best Defensive Catcher Tim Federowicz Best Defensive Infielder Jose Iglesias Best Infield Arm Will Middlebrooks Best Defensive Outfielder Che-Hsuan Lin Best Outfield Arm Che-Hsuan Lin PROJECTED 2014 LINEUP Catcher Ryan Lavarnway First Base Anthony Rizzo Second Base Dustin Pedroia Third Base Garin Cecchini Shortstop Jose Iglesias Left Field Jacoby Ellsbury Center Field Reymond Fuentes Right Field Ryan Kalish Designated Hitter Kevin Youkilis No. 1 Starter Jon Lester No. 2 Starter Clay Buchholz No. 3 Starter Casey Kelly No. 4 Starter Josh Beckett No. 5 Starter Anthony Ranaudo Closer Jonathan Papelbon TOP PROSPECTS OF THE DECADE Year Player, Position 2010 2001 Dernell Stenson, of/1b Deceased 2002 Seung Song, rhp Lotte (Korea) 2003 Hanley Ramirez, ss Marlins 2004 Hanley Ramirez, ss Marlins 2005 Hanley Ramirez, ss Marlins 2006 Andy Marte, 3b Indians 2007 Daisuke Matsuzaka, rhp Red Sox 2008 Clay Buchholz, rhp Red Sox 2009 Lars Anderson, 1b Red Sox 2010 Ryan Westmoreland, of Red Sox TOP DRAFT PICKS OF THE DECADE Year Player, Position 2010 2001 Kelly Shoppach, c (2nd round) Rays 2002 Jon Lester, lhp (2nd round) Red Sox 2003 David Murphy, of Rangers 2004 Dustin Pedroia, ss (2nd round) Red Sox 2005 Jacoby Ellsbury, of Red Sox 2006 Jason Place, of Red Sox 2007 Nick Hagadone,  lhp (1st round supp.) Indians 2008 Casey Kelly, rhp Red Sox 2009 Reymond Fuentes, of Red Sox 2010 Kolbrin Vitek, 3b Red Sox LARGEST BONUSES IN CLUB HISTORY     Jose Iglesias, 2009 $6,250,000 Casey Kelly, 2008 $3,000,000 Anthony Ranaudo, 2010 $2,550,000 Daisuke Matsuzaka, 2006 $2,000,000 Ryan Westmoreland, 2008 $2,000,000 RED SOX LINKS Red Sox' Team Page Red Sox Top 10 Scouting Reports   www.baseballamerica.com/p/?XCVITJ " />  www.baseballamerica.com/architecture/images/premium.gif " border="0" alt="Premium" align="absmiddle" /> Last Year's Red Sox Top 10 Prospects 2010 Draft: Red Sox  (Basic Database) 2010 Draft: Red Sox   www.baseballamerica.com/p/?XCVITJ ">  www.baseballamerica.com/architecture/images/premium.gif " border="0" alt="Premium" align="absmiddle" /> (Advanced Database) 2010 Draft Report Cards: Boston Red Sox   www.baseballamerica.com/p/?XCVITJ ">  www.baseballamerica.com/architecture/images/premium.gif " border="0" alt="Premium" align="absmiddle" /> Complete Index of Top 10 Prospects Pre-Order the 2011 Prospect Handbook www.baseballamerica.com/images/mlblogos/smallgifs/2008/redsox.gif " border="0" alt="Boston Red Sox" />
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    Anthony Rizzo and Casey Kelly????

    If this is updated weekly then I don't think it's a very reliable source as those two guys weren't in the system at the start of the system.

    It may be unfair to say Lavarnway is better than Montero....BUT prospects change status, some fall from grace and others come out of rightfield to become stars....and it doesn't just happen like a light switch you can see a good player progressing.  Lavarnway is hands down having a huge season that should be increasing his value, and maybe his success won't carry over to the MLB.  But If Lavarnway was one of those special players that becomes a huge superstar...THIS is how it starts to happen.  As a Sox fan, you got have a hope.....if a the tables were reversed and their was a yankees prospect unheard of who was hitting .300/.400/.500 and busting out the HR's and RBI's...there would be a heck of a lot of excited Yankee fans too.

    I'll admit though, it's to early to write off Montero an especially Romine an it may even seem like instigating an argument to suggest our prospect is better than yours....however the Yankees are the main competition so inherently that is the standard to compare against. 

     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine? : Yes I have but I said over the last several years.  He's been around since 2005.  Would this work better?  Robinson Cano is the only very good player they've developed from their farm system over the past 10 seasons.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]
    Robinson Cano is younger than Kevin Youkilis and Jonathan Papelbon (and was born the year before Dustin Pedroia and Jacoby Ellsbury were born). Brett Gardner has produced stellar numbers the past two seasons. All Stars David Robertson and Phil Hughes are products of the Yankee farm system.
     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine? : You don't have to believe me just wait for it to happen like with your boy Phil Hughes and many others that never lived up to the hype.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Your posts are homer ridden, angry, lame & clueless. First of all, MOST prospects don't live up to the hype. And, If Hughes never pitches another inning, he has already added to the Yankee legacy. In 2009, he was instrumental in getting Ring #27 by being arguably the best setup man in the league. In 2010, despite arm problems in the 2nd half which diluted his final #s, he made the AS Team (and lost) and won 18 games. When Lavarnway has accomplishments similar to that, you let me know.  
     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]Besides, the Yankees don't have a very good track record of developing players from within over the past several seasons.  They've produced a few average-at-best players.  No home grown studs.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    You mean like Cano, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Austin Jackson, Tyler Clippard & Robertson (& possibly Nova)?
     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]"This ranking is updated weekly." The BA page you linked hasn't been updated since November 2010. Which ranking are you talking about? In any case, it was a silly question in the first place. Both Montero and Romine fully deserve to be put ahead of Lavarnway at this time.
    Posted by thirtysomething[/QUOTE]

    I was talking about the Scouting Book site, where I posted the top 10, I apologize for not clarifying.
     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine? : While they may not be HOF's, I do believe soriano, nick johnson, wang, westbrook,juan rivera,navarro,melky, kennedy, thames. Not all stars, but some have been decent ballplayers and some derailed by injuries (which are impossible to scout). Dave Robertson seems to be the real thing. And, like him or not, Joba has emerged as a solid reliever. Granted, not living up to the starter role originally planned, but again an injury seemed to determine his fate. Again, not really a list of perennial all stars, but they have all carved out at least  servicable major league careers.
    Posted by The--Babe--[/QUOTE]

    Serviceable, yes, but does that list hold a candle to:

    Youkilis, Pedroia, Ellsbury Papelbon, Lester, Buchholz, Bard? (All currently play for the Sox)

    Based on your criteria, guys like Hanley Ramirez, Anibal Sanchez, David Murphy and Shea Hillenbrand would quallify too.
     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine? : Robinson Cano is younger than Kevin Youkilis and Jonathan Papelbon (and was born the year before Dustin Pedroia and Jacoby Ellsbury were born). Brett Gardner has produced stellar numbers the past two seasons. All Stars David Robertson and Phil Hughes are products of the Yankee farm system.
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    "Brett Gardner has produced stellar numbers over the past two seasons"

    Very poor usage of the word "stellar".
     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    Granted, Shea Hillenbrand was one of the most obvious PED users ever.
     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    "A propsect that hasn't played in the majors is the biggest question mark there is.  Look at Lars Anderson, he looked lost when he had his chance.   Lavarnway will get a call up and then we will see."

    Lars Anderson hit .262 at AAA last year while striking out in 1/4 of his AB. He did about as well in the majors as you might have expected from that minor league line. Surely a big disappointment to those scouts who put him #17 in all of baseball at the start of 2009. He never adjusted to AAA, let alone the majors.

    Agreed that a major league callup will tell us more about Lavarnway. He'll get his chance in September, if not before then.

    "I was talking about the Scouting Book site, where I posted the top 10"

    Thanks for the clarification. Not sure I place huge stock in mid-season rankings. You see big changes between the September rankings and the off-season updates, and it has nothing to do with anything happening on the field.

    For that matter, ranking prospects is an impossible task. You almost have to look at it as a checklist. "If a player can learn to do X, Y, and Z, then he'll have a career as a solid major league ballplayer." Or sometimes, "This kid has the potential to be a star, but first he'll need to stop swinging at those sliders low and away."

    Biggest reason why I'm high on Reddick is that he has nailed the #1 item on his checklist this year: "swing at strikes, not balls". Am not nearly so clear on what Lavarnway needs to solve.

     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine? : Serviceable, yes, but does that list hold a candle to: Youkilis, Pedroia, Ellsbury Papelbon, Lester, Buchholz, Bard? (All currently play for the Sox) Based on your criteria, guys like Hanley Ramirez, Anibal Sanchez, David Murphy and Shea Hillenbrand would quallify too.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    Correct, but it seems to be cyclical. When your team does well you draft near the bottom and also are signing free agents to plug hole and losing picks because of the "win now" mentality. Look at how it worked when the Yanks were drafting in the late eighties and early nineties. Jeter, Mariano, Bernie, Posada, Pettitte etc.

    Not to mention it's only been the past four or five years that Cashman has had more control.

     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine? : "Brett Gardner has produced stellar numbers over the past two seasons" Very poor usage of the word "stellar".
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine? : Correct, but it seems to be cyclical. When your team does well you draft near the bottom and also are signing free agents to plug hole and losing picks because of the "win now" mentality. Look at how it worked when the Yanks were drafting in the late eighties and early nineties. Jeter, Mariano, Bernie, Posada, Pettitte etc. Not to mention it's only been the past four or five years that Cashman has had more control.
    Posted by The--Babe--[/QUOTE]

    Overall though you have to admit, Cashman has done a rather poor job in his tenure.  Gene Michael built those championship teams of the late 90's, not Cashman.
     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine? : "Brett Gardner has produced stellar numbers over the past two seasons" Very poor usage of the word "stellar".
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    And Shea Hillebrand is very poor usage of the word stud.
     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine? : Overall though you have to admit, Cashman has done a rather poor job in his tenure.  Gene Michael built those championship teams of the late 90's, not Cashman.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    That I agree with.
     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]"A propsect that hasn't played in the majors is the biggest question mark there is.  Look at Lars Anderson, he looked lost when he had his chance.   Lavarnway will get a call up and then we will see." Lars Anderson hit .262 at AAA last year while striking out in 1/4 of his AB. He did about as well in the majors as you might have expected from that minor league line. Surely a big disappointment to those scouts who put him #17 in all of baseball at the start of 2009. He never adjusted to AAA, let alone the majors. Agreed that a major league callup will tell us more about Lavarnway. He'll get his chance in September, if not before then. "I was talking about the Scouting Book site, where I posted the top 10" Thanks for the clarification. Not sure I place huge stock in mid-season rankings. You see big changes between the September rankings and the off-season updates, and it has nothing to do with anything happening on the field. For that matter, ranking prospects is an impossible task. You almost have to look at it as a checklist. "If a player can learn to do X, Y, and Z, then he'll have a career as a solid major league ballplayer." Or sometimes, "This kid has the potential to be a star, but first he'll need to stop swinging at those sliders low and away." Biggest reason why I'm high on Reddick is that he has nailed the #1 item on his checklist this year: "swing at strikes, not balls". Am not nearly so clear on what Lavarnway needs to solve.
    Posted by thirtysomething[/QUOTE]

    Agree; this is going a ways back, but when Ed Kranepool signed with the Mets (and made the Majors) at 17 in '62, he got a coaching visit from Super HOFer Rogers Hornsby, who gave him one piece of advise and left "Swing at strikes"
     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine? : Overall though you have to admit, Cashman has done a rather poor job in his tenure.  Gene Michael built those championship teams of the late 90's, not Cashman.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    I'm interested in seeing how he does going forward now that he's in control. The farm system has come along way in the past few years with him in control.

     
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    Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?

    In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Ryan Lavarnway a better prospect than both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine? : And Shea Hillebrand is very poor usage of the word stud.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    Could you please point out where I called Shea Hillenbrand a "stud"?
     

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