Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    Even our anecdotal splits are proven false. "Warped stats" is simply a liar's way of saying "you caught me".

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    Warped stats - like using career numbers to make a point regarding a catcher's relevance - is your sole foundation.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    softy's the master of using one game sample sizes to make one point, then career stats for another player and cherry-picking his stat of the day.
     
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    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    In Response to Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?:
    [QUOTE]softy's the master of using one game sample sizes to make one point, then career stats for another player and cherry-picking his stat of the day.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Yes. On this, he has no equal.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    Varitek was terrible with Buch. Simply look at the numbers. It's a fact, and let's not see your excuses

    Try looking at context.

    Vtek barely caught Buch last year. How hard is that to understand? And VMart did not do that much better by those tiny numbers anyways. If you really think the Buch of 2008 was the same as 2010, then there's no point in arguing with a clown.

    2010: VMart (164 IP) 2.13
                VTek  (4 IP )     2.25

    2009: VMart (77)  4.34
                VTek  (10)  3.72

    2008: VTek  (67)  6.88
                Cash (9)    5.79

    2007: VTek (19)  1.93
            Others (4)    0.00

    This record hardly tells anything about who catches Buch better; however, almost every other pitcher has done markedly better with VTek. Why don't you give us a reason why this is so? You ask us to show why Buch does better with VMart (he really hasn't), but when we ask you why others do way better with VMart, all we get is crickets...

    We have provided oodles of data to show that the vast majority of pitchers that have large enough sample sizes with 2 or more catchers almost all have done better with VTek year after year after year. We provided (mostly harness) other team's situations and long standing trends or wide differrentials. CERA-related trends are as real as Youk being a better hitter than Kotchman.

    It's as real as you holding the exact same warped philosphies as softy. Every single one of them, even ones that are hypocritical to each other.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    Yes. On this, he has no equal.

    Case in point:

    Softy judged Kalish to be "the real thing" on a pretty small sample size that actually showed no greatness at the plate at all.

    He roasted Wake for months over two bad starts in 2010. He neglects his career numbers or even his 2007-mid2009 numbers.

    Yet, when we point to Papi's and Oki's downward trends, he wants to use only career numbers.

    Scutaro's iupward trend at the signing was discounted for "career norms", but BHall's upward trend in 2010 was supposed to negate his career.

    Jed's career sample size is high enough to judge, and his recent success is a mirage.

    Yet, with Coco Crisp, the only numbers that counted were 2 years long ago where he had half-decent numbers.

    With Lugo, he clung to his position like pasengers to the sinking Titanic. His "wire-to-wire" ring season claim was as bizzare as they get. "Lugo was not a bust" at $36M for what amounted to 2-3 years, but Wake is a bust as the 25th man at $1.5M.

    Lackey was OK, "except for the 5th year", now it was the worst signing of alltime.

    Jed and Ells to SD for AGon. When the eal turned out to be almost just like what I said it would be and at the time I said it would be, he claimed the SD GM was an idiot and that he and only he called the deal from the start. Te 50-50 quote neatly erased by a politcal rant that got him banned.

    Wake is too old, but Cam is better than Ells.



     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    One correction: His current take on Lackey is: "He's a bust".
    This based on his first year in Boston...and two lousy starts.
    That's about 20% of his contract.

    It is tough keeping up with all the goal post changing...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    The Red Sox are now 1-13 in Salty's starts.

    The pitching staff is in shambles.

    He is hitting 146 with a 510 OPS as a Red Sox.

    How much longer can they play this guy?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from johnnyboy9. Show johnnyboy9's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    waldman during the first inning opined that bobby cox made "salt" sound like the next johnny bench. if you think it is salt's fault, maybe you should reconsider. maybe the blame is on theo for biting on cox's sales pitch.
     
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    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    Hfxsoxnut:  Where would the team be if they gave up on Pedroia after 13 games? Or Papi when he was platooned with Giambi?
    Or Lester, who once had trouble with 5-inning-high pitch counts?
    Or Buch?
    Or Youk?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    Or Renteria?
     
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    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    What did Rent-a-ria make?
    What does Salty make?
    Lester/Youk/Papi/Pedey were low risk gambles.
    So is Salty - at least financially.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackyldo. Show jackyldo's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    I  for one   am  for giving him a break  and some time to learn working with Varitek.

    BUT

    that said he's also hitting more like Kevin Cash   and his throwing is still an issue.. He's airmailed at least  3 into centerfield  over the Hobbit  2nd baseman..

    If the team were hitting on 8 of 9 cylinders   then   you can  carry him a while and wait for his bat.. But until Elsbunny, Crawford  and all get hitting  well  -- he is a liability  that is hard to afford.

    He was going to be the next big thing here in Atlanta   but after  a while he was just a piece in the puzzle for renting Texeria  for 8 weeks.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dstreet451. Show dstreet451's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    I listened to the sound feed from the Bluejays for yesterday's broadcast. Buck Martinez said he couldn't understand why Varitek wasn't catching more. He got to know Varitek at the World Baseball Classic and said he's the best in the majors at calling a game and claims that Tek has a photographic memory that helps him keep hitters weaknesses in mind. Are you listening Tito?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    In Response to Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?:
    [QUOTE]"Every other pitcher hasn't done better with Varitek. The Buch numbers aren't "warped". You need to warp the numbers you advance, which don't prove that catchers have anything to do with pitching.
    Posted by BaseballGM[/QUOTE]

    Again, that's absolutely impossible.

    If that were true, my nephew in Ireland, who never played BB, would call as good a ballgame as any catcher who ever lived.

    If that were the case, why isn't Papi the catcher?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    In Response to Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?:
    [QUOTE]The Red Sox are now 1-13 in Salty's starts. The pitching staff is in shambles. He is hitting 146 with a 510 OPS as a Red Sox. How much longer can they play this guy?
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    You hit on a point often overlooked.

    Catching is like SS.  If you have a great defensive catcher who can't hit, you stash him 9th.  Or if you have a weakish defensive catcher like VMart or Posada, you bat him up in the order and live with the deficiency.

    If the guy were mashing, I'd give him a longer leash on the catching.  If he were a great catcher, but couldn't hit, I'd try to work around it.  He hasn't shown anything yet to make me think he'll be a player.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from batoutofhell. Show batoutofhell's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    It's on Salty, the new pitching coach and the pitchers.
    This season, the pitchers have to get used to a new pitching coach. That's hard to do when they speak so reverently of Farrell. They have to put their trust in the new guy.
    And Salty? Yeah, I place some blame with him. he's not seasoned enough. As far as I'm concerned, I'd let Tek catch 2/3 of the games. Let him watch a master at game-calling and learn.
    Varitek is in probably the best shape he's been  in years. All that time off last year let old wounds heal and he has said he feels like he's 30-someting. so let him catch more. You gotta know he callas a better game.
    And food for thought: We have 3 wins. Tek's been behind the oplate for two of those wins. Coincidence? I don't think so.
    I think Salty's got talent. But I don't think he's first string right now.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from REDSOX-11. Show REDSOX-11's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    It's all the catchers fault the pitchers are out there to melt down. Easy to blame everyone but the real reason the sox are 3-10. That is Terry (I don't know what I"m doing) Francoma. this team was not ready for the regular season just as I predicted it wouldn't be. He ran ST like a vacatiion and doesn't have a clue how to handle a pitching staff. Not expected the team is 3-10.


    In Response to Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?:
    [QUOTE]The starters have not pitched well to begin this season (I know bold statement right) and i'm interested to know how many people are placing the blame on Saltalamacchia's catching skills or knowledge of the game.  It just seemed to me that he was calling for a few of Dice-K's pitches to be left over the plate last night and they were being hit hard, although this definitely does not justify his bad outing.  I'm not saying we should ditch Salty as we can no longer rely on a 39 year old catcher to catch 100+ games, but is he ready yet?
    Posted by wschamps04-07[/QUOTE]
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    Does anybody on this thread realize that Varitek is hitting .077?  7 Blue Jays got on base yesterday, and 3 of them stole bases.  You guys are acting like we're playing Salty in lieu of Johnny Bench.  And there is ZERO evidence that Salty is bad at calling games - his cERA is consistently lower than his team ERA in years he caught a decent number of innings

    slo, team CERA is very deceptive. It is a stat better used looking a how both catchers on a team handled each individual pitcher one by one. This takes out the vaiable of a catcher who catches better pitchers more or less often. Also, jus because Salty might bebetter than the other catcher on his team at a given moment, does not mean he is ver good at handling a pitcher. The other guy might be the very worst in MLB. As wih any stat, context and large enough sample sizes are needed.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    t's all the catchers fault the pitchers are out there to melt down. Easy to blame everyone but the real reason the sox are 3-10.

    There is also a possibility that Atl and TX were right to give up on him.  No one could've caught Dice the other day.  But so far in his career, Salty hasn't shown he is a ML catcher.  It's not like he's a RS prospect, and we're trying to figure out how much rope we should give him.  We're his 3rd team.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    I agree with that, but if your conditions are comparing catchers to one pitcher within one year, you will rarely have a meaningful sample size.  While with Texas, Salty shared catching duties with respected catchers like Laird and Rodriguez, and his cERA was lower than both.  You can't have it both ways - if this doesn't prove that Salty is a good game-caller, than 40 innings of Varitek catching Lester in 2010 cannot prove anything either.

    I hve never said Salty was a bad game-caller. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else. I have also not used salty's numbes in Texas against or for him.

    I just said that using team CERA can be deceptive, since one catcher might catch better or worse pitcers than the others, so had-to-head numbers are a better source. Yes, that means some sample sizes ae too small to trust, but if the vast majority ofthese small sample sizes almost all favor one guy over another, year after year, I tend to think thereis more to he numbes than luck.

    I have not seen Salty's head-t-head numbers vs other team catchers. He has not played enough to have have many large sample sizes.

    His last year with significant innings caught was 2009.
    Here are the head-to-head PAs/OPS by catcher with each pitcher

                         Salty        Teag             IRod
    Milwood  571/.712   121/.678   158/.948
    Feldman 368/.635  245/860   178/.587
    Holland   297/.805  241/.901    73/.915
    McCarty  236/.753  122/.773    62/.616
    Hunter    206/.670    93/.788  152/.795
    Padilla    175/.611   300/.871    n/a
    Wilson    166/.712     97/.617    59/.550
    Jennings 141/.789   127/.839   n/a

    This shows Salty was pretty respectable that season at age 24.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    Not catchers fault unless he's whispering the pitch to hitters before pitch is thrown. Pitchers have to make good pitches its as simple as that. If RS sent Dice K to St. Louis think Yadir Molina would make him a CY Young canidate.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    Not catchers fault unless he's whispering the pitch to hitters before pitch is thrown.

    Ahhh, so that's what VMart was doing!

    The mystery is solved.

    No wonder Theo let him go!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Is the blame on Saltalamacchia?

    Moon, UR data supports my take on Salty. When the numbers go both ways with limited criteria, nothing definitive can be drawn one way or the other. There's no consistency either way.
    And since we are talking about a guy with 261 total games of experience, it's near impossible to find any patterns when measuring CERA-related data appropriately.

    That's why the FO is gambling on this guy. But they would have been better served not feeding Salty to the lions. A catching tandem makes more sense.

    I agree with Joe that Salty has shown little to validate his presence, but neither has Crawford. And like with CC, we haven't seen Salty's A-game yet.
    He wasn't catching in the majors at 21/22 years of age for nothing. He's hit before and he'll hit again. The guy is a hard worker who seems to have an open mind. His idol was Tek. Tek was very instrumental in this team winning two rings, so Salty has his priorities in order. The guy had a major set back physically and lost confidence in himself.
    Boston is hardly a place to find it when fans want UR head.

    Our expectations of him reflect the FO gamble to put him in this position.   
    In the same light, Tito didn't do CC any favors hitting him 3rd right off the bat.
    I think the players we presently see in both CC and Salty will vastly differ from what we will see in August.
     

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