Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to darrylfries' comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Had the Red Sox not been changing GMs  and had a little faith in Ells we might have signed him for that before the season started.

    A mistake we will deeply regret.   Bradley despite all the rave on this on here is no where near Ells and Vic is a good fielder but has won few games for us with his bat .

    Bradley   Bradley  Bradley  Bradley is ready and better than Ells remember those threads.

    A lot of so called baseball experts on this forum were dead wrong not that im suprised.

     

     

     




    He wasnt going to sign before the year. Theres no way. The Sox even approached Boras about things and he wouldnt discuss money.

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly!  After said talks, Henry said, "It was highly unlikely that Ells stays in Boston."

    The Red Sox are well aware that it's going to take in the neighborhood of 18M/yr x 6 - 7 years, & they seem be preparing RS Nation that they are NOT going to spend that kind of money on Ells.

     

    3 names that make this a virtual certitude.....

    JBJ

    Johnny Gomes

    & Danial Nava

    With the likely call up of JBJ, & the simmering LOVE AFFAIR RS Nation has developed with Nava & Gomes, Henry & Co. are prepared to let Ells walk to BIG MONEY.

    With half the AB's, Gomes has excellent production.  Nava's numbers are also very impressive!

    That leaves JBJ manning CF.  Let's pray he's actually going to be ready, as the likelihood of keeping Ells is rapidly diminishing with Ells heating up for a very strong finish. 

    His season ending numbers????

    .310+ avg, .850 ish OPS, Circa 60 SB, circa 100 runs scored, 75+ RBI's

    What say you?????

    Jonny Gomes 83 217 36 52 14 0 10 33 31 62 0 .240 .340 .442

     

     

     

     

    38

     

     

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    In response to chickenandboose's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Bradley in LF, Ellsbury in CF, and Shane in RF. Best defensive outfield in baseball for the next 2 years.

     

     

     




    No, it's time to give Ellsbury a 7-year deal at $150 mil. Everybody wake up; this guy is worth every bit (and, maybe more) than Cabrera. This isn't a guy who just fell off the train from Pawtucket. This is a player who is in peak condition, has hit as many as 32 HR's, stolen 70 bases and saves the pitching staff about 5 runs a week. Give him what he's worth, or the Yankees will!

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Are you insane ?  As much as I love Ells, it is pure lunacy to compare him to Cabrera. Cabrera won the triple crown last season and could very well do it again this year. Cabrera is consistant every season while Ells has proven to be fragile and not always dependable. That being said I would love to have Ells back but I would never say he is worth more than Cabrera. Cabrera might be one of the greatest hitters of our generation. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to darrylfries' comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Had the Red Sox not been changing GMs  and had a little faith in Ells we might have signed him for that before the season started.

    A mistake we will deeply regret.   Bradley despite all the rave on this on here is no where near Ells and Vic is a good fielder but has won few games for us with his bat .

    Bradley   Bradley  Bradley  Bradley is ready and better than Ells remember those threads.

    A lot of so called baseball experts on this forum were dead wrong not that im suprised.

     




     

    There were infomal talks.  Boras was ALWAYS making sure that Ells went to FA.  There is NO WAY IN HELL he was going to accept anything near 4 yr 60M (15M/yr.)  NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!  So the notion that the Red Sox, or BC blew a chance at making this deal is simply fantasy! 

     

    What will it take now?

     

    Moon is spot on. 

     

    6yr @ about 18M = $108M

    Perhaps even a 7yr x 18M

     

    Now......

    Had Ells not turned it on shortly before the break, we might have picked him up on the cheap closer to 15 - 16M / year x 4yr deal, BUT we would have had to wait til the end of the season anyway......   Boras was going to FA NO MATTER WHAT!

    Let's drop this silly uninformed notion that Ells / Boras would have signed a low ball offer earlier.  It's just nonsense!

    [/QUOTE]


     You are so right.... I really truly believe we do not need Ells next year.  Let him go .Do not need another 100mil contract....He can be replaced. This is his contract year and from next year on could turn brittle again.... Funny how things work in sports......

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to chickenandboose's comment:

    Bradley in LF, Ellsbury in CF, and Shane in RF. Best defensive outfield in baseball for the next 2 years.

     




    Ells will land 17/18mil for five or six years from some club so the Sox have few options next season if he walks.  Bradley, in my opinion won't give us the same production for another year or two so without a trade it may only leave inexpensive options like Nate Mclouth for a couple years. 

    Possible tradesRH bat?  maybe guys like Rios, Pence or kick the tires on Ryan Braun.  Regardless of the past PED issue Ryan is an outstanding player. 

    Pitching?  We should seriously try to trade the much older and less talented Dempster if possible, then go after Garza as a FA who's cost would then be feasable.  A rotation of Buchholz, Peavy, Garza, Lester and Lackey would be much more consistent while the kids on the farm mature.  From what I have seen so far, I don't think Webster will have long term success in the majors.  Workman, De La Rosa and Britton may possibly help at some point and we have yet to see Renaudo, Barnes and others.

    1B? If Nap finishes the year like he looks like he will.  Upgrading 1B may also be necessary again.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Javi60. Show Javi60's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to chickenandboose's comment:

    Bradley in LF, Ellsbury in CF, and Shane in RF. Best defensive outfield in baseball for the next 2 years.

     

     



    YES YES CAPITAL YES!... But he might be in hands of Scott...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to darrylfries' comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to darrylfries' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Had the Red Sox not been changing GMs  and had a little faith in Ells we might have signed him for that before the season started.

    A mistake we will deeply regret.   Bradley despite all the rave on this on here is no where near Ells and Vic is a good fielder but has won few games for us with his bat .

    Bradley   Bradley  Bradley  Bradley is ready and better than Ells remember those threads.

    A lot of so called baseball experts on this forum were dead wrong not that im suprised.

     

     

     

     




    He wasnt going to sign before the year. Theres no way. The Sox even approached Boras about things and he wouldnt discuss money.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
    I wasn't aware Boras flatly refused to discuss a contract last year.

     

    Seem's with Ells poor year and injuries he would have entertained offers in the 15 to 17 mill range.

    I suppose Ells isn't to keen on coming back or he would have encouraged Boras to at least listen.

    I can't say I blame him his integrity and playing ability has been questioned both by the fans and the FO.

    [/QUOTE]

    last year, the year before that, the year befoer that..... they've been trying to extend him since ~09. but him and Boras have been adamant about hitting FA. which is OK for a player to do. Ellsbury can still very much want to play here but still hit FA... There have been 0 reports by sox writers that he wants out of town. in fact, just the opposite. I've always read that he loves the city and the fans. If he wanted to play somewhere else he would have asked for a trade and finished his last few years before FA in another city.

    Can you provide a link that states the FO has questioned his playing ability?? because on the contrary, they've made multiple attempts to resign him and never said a negative thing about him. Even John henry has been quoted saying he loves Ellsbury and very much wants to retain his services going forward.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Javi60. Show Javi60's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    "Bradley   Bradley  Bradley  Bradley is ready and better than Ells remember those threads"

     

    Fully agree... But to have them both in lineup and outfield might sound better than the Spring sonata...

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to darrylfries' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Had the Red Sox not been changing GMs  and had a little faith in Ells we might have signed him for that before the season started.

    A mistake we will deeply regret.   Bradley despite all the rave on this on here is no where near Ells and Vic is a good fielder but has won few games for us with his bat .

    Bradley   Bradley  Bradley  Bradley is ready and better than Ells remember those threads.

    A lot of so called baseball experts on this forum were dead wrong not that im suprised.

     

     

     

     




    He wasnt going to sign before the year. Theres no way. The Sox even approached Boras about things and he wouldnt discuss money.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Exactly!  After said talks, Henry said, "It was highly unlikely that Ells stays in Boston."

    [/QUOTE]

    this is not an accurate quote. Henry said that it was very unlikely that Ells RESIGNS BEFORE THE SEASON IS OVER.

    he goes on to say in that same article that he loves Jacoby and wants him on the team in 2014 and beyond. he just isn't optimistec about the chances of Ells extending before he hits FA (which we've known for 3-4 years now......). that is 10000% different than saying he isn't going to stay here.

    misinformed you are, RSDD.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    In response to chickenandboose's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bradley in LF, Ellsbury in CF, and Shane in RF. Best defensive outfield in baseball for the next 2 years.

     

     

    [/QUOte]

     

    I like Jacoby but if we lose him that is ok.  JBJ is ready to go and plays center better and has a better arm.



    Ellsbury playing for another team and JBJ manning CF is a downgrade. Ells is a top 3 defensive CF'er (i would say he's #1), the best leadoff man in the game. the best base stealer in the game and offensively, is one of the best CF'ers in the game. JBJ is not going to make up for those losses with a better arm and a marginal "upgrade" defensively.... quit dreaming.

    At the end of the day, Ells is a superstar OF'er and JBJ is a prospect. It's a net loss to replace the former with the latter. resign ells, stick JBJ in a corner slot or trade him (i would prefer the trade and go after a RH'ed power hitting corner player)

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    The signing of Vic for 3  13 was more of an indication than the players you mentioned

     


    Gomes can't play left let alone center. 

    Nava's i've always liked but he's no centerfielder

    My guess is the Sox like many fans on here thought Bradley was ready or will be ready next year.  He's hit  .256  in June and  .224 in July in Paw had a good game last night. I hope he picks up the pace but he really looked totally mismatched in his time in Boston.

    I hope they were right and i'm wrong.

     

    My guess is that Ellsbury is offered a QO and walks. (My guess is we offer him $64M/4.)

    I think we sign a 1 year "bridge OF'er" unless we can find that elusive big bopper Rh'd bat via trade this winter. Otherwise, we are left with this for an OF, but also the money not spent on Ellsbury to upgrade other positions to lessen the blow of losing Ellsbury...

     

    LF Nava/Carp vs RHPs &  Gomes vs LHPs

     

    CF Victorino/JBJ vs RHPs  & JBJ vs LHPs

     

    RF Victorino/Nava vs RHPs  &  Victorino vs LHPs

     

    Then there ar guys like Brentz, Kalish, Hassan & Hazelbaker possibly knocking on the door.

     

    There are other scenarios lsoing Ellsbury where we can still be highly competitive.

    We could replace Salty with McCann.

    We could find a solid RH'd bat that plays 1B, 3B, or OF.

    We could build up the bullpen.

    We could see a young prospect pitcher dominate.

    We could see Bogaerts have a Fred Lynn/Jim Rice type rookie year.

    We could see Middlebrooks shine.

    We could see a few of these happen.

    We have a lot of money to spend and still stay under the luxury tax limit. It doesn't have to be half of it on one player like Ellsbury. 

     

    Sox4ever

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jgallag1. Show jgallag1's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    It'll hurt to lose any of the outfielders. While that's probably their deepest area at the big club level, other than JBJ, they have no elite players that I can see down in the system.


    That being said, I do believe Jacoby will be gone. With the relatively weak FA class, he's going to be getting his money and will be in demand.

    A few teams have been mentioned as potential destinations, but I think one team that should make a big run at him is the Mets. I actually get to a bunch of their games, and  they're a relatively young team that really is only a few parts away from being pretty darn good. And this offseason they've promised their fans to spend some cash. I see them pulling down Jacoby, and making a real run at a Stanton trade. That'd give them an outfield of Stanton, Jacoby, and Lagares (who's developed into a good young player), with an infield including Murphy and Wright. They have some pretty good young pitching...Harvey is an ace, and Wheeler is going to be a stud. Beyond that, they have Niese when healthy, Gee, and a couple of potential studs who are just about ready. They'll have to lose at least one of them if they pull off a Stanton trade, but they have a lot of cheap young guys (Duda, Tejada, Ike Davis, Young Jr, along with minor leaguers) that they may be able to lump together to tempt the Marlins. That's kind of how they work.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    It would be most unpleasant to see ells in pinstripes, but don't believe we can win a bidding war with the yankees, or would even try to win it.  Most everyone wants him back, including management, and ells likes it here, but the money will win out. 

    Moon is right, the future still looks good without ells.  I'm seeing Owens Cecchini and Bogaerts as stars for the sox in the not too distant future.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    Often times when a player, most especially a position player, gets to FA you get what you pay for.  If you want a player who's one of the best leadoff hitters in the game AND is one of the best CF's in the game you'd better plan on opening your pocketbook. 

    Or you can go cheap, with an unproven prospect who will (allegedly) be a slight upgrade defensively but most certainly a downgrade on offense.  And given what happened recently I think we can say that the FO puts more emphasis on offense than defense.   

    Considering that Ellsbury is probably the biggest key to the Sox offense, I'd spend the money.  And I think the Sox will too, UNLESS someone makes Ells some offer that the Sox FO considers absoultely ridiculous. 

    Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to chickenandboose's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bradley in LF, Ellsbury in CF, and Shane in RF. Best defensive outfield in baseball for the next 2 years.

     

     

    [/QUOte]

     

    I like Jacoby but if we lose him that is ok.  JBJ is ready to go and plays center better and has a better arm.

     

     



    Ellsbury playing for another team and JBJ manning CF is a downgrade. Ells is a top 3 defensive CF'er (i would say he's #1), the best leadoff man in the game. the best base stealer in the game and offensively, is one of the best CF'ers in the game. JBJ is not going to make up for those losses with a better arm and a marginal "upgrade" defensively.... quit dreaming.

     

     

    At the end of the day, Ells is a superstar OF'er and JBJ is a prospect. It's a net loss to replace the former with the latter. resign ells, stick JBJ in a corner slot or trade him (i would prefer the trade and go after a RH'ed power hitting corner player)

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Well, the sox are happy with JBJ and you better get used to the idea of Jacoby in pinstripes. I did not say that JBJ is a perfect replacement, just a good one.  Down in Pawtucket the only balls getting over JBJ are the homers.  He is just as fast if not faster on the bases than Jacoby.  Either way works for me but i don't see the sox paying what Borris will want.

     

    If JBJ does take over it will be nice to finally have a center fielder with a good arm.

    [/QUOTE]

    tell me how the yankees are going to Sign Ells when their #1 priority going into 2014 is to get under the luxury tax and their #2 priority is to sign Cano to a mega deal ~150M IMO. they will probably look to take Granderson over Ells as he will come cheaper and is a better fit for their team and home park.

    you are on drugs if you think JBJ is even in the same speed stratosphere as Ellsbury. JBJ has some wheels, but he is not jacoby fast. Jacoby is ricky henderson fast.... JBJ is simply fast.

    Henry really likes jacoby. If he wants to open the pocketbook for him then no matter what anyone else offers he will return. Also the tax threshold probably isn't a deal breaker to the sox as we have a dump truck full of cash coming off the books in 2 years and an influx of young talent slated to come up as cost. Frankly, money isn't a very big issue for the sox going forward. If you are going to spend big on a player then spend big on one of your OWN players. battle tested in Boston and able to handle the "pressure".

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jgallag1. Show jgallag1's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    And they also have Brentz, who's got a lot of pop, but they really don't have that all around star caliber guy. That being said, Nava and Darnell and Gomes etc have shown that you can find production without needing stars. If those three wound up as the outfield, you have range with JBJ, a gun in Hazelbaker, and your pop with Brentz. Not horrible, not great. But it's the Sox...they have the money to spend and much of their team is set up for years (Pedroia, Xander, Middlebrooks, JBJ, eventually Cechhini?)

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    If we've learned anything this year it should be how valuable it is to have a CF's speed and arm in RF in Fenway.  That's why personally I'm fond of an OF of "Why" in LF (You A&C fans think about it.  It'll come to you.), Ellsbury in CF and JBJ in RF. 

    Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to S5's comment:

    Often times when a player, most especially a position player, gets to FA you get what you pay for.  If you want a player who's one of the best leadoff hitters in the game AND is one of the best CF's in the game you'd better plan on opening your pocketbook. 

    Or you can go cheap, with an unproven prospect who will (allegedly) be a slight upgrade defensively but most certainly a downgrade on offense.  And given what happened recently I think we can say that the FO puts more emphasis on offense than defense.   

    Considering that Ellsbury is probably the biggest key to the Sox offense, I'd spend the money.  And I think the Sox will too, UNLESS someone makes Ells some offer that the Sox FO considers absoultely ridiculous. 

    Having the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.



    PREACH!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

     

    Knocked in the 4th and 5th runs last night. Pretty good for Lead-off man. Sox will be making a big mistake if they let him walk. They have the money.

     




    Yup. They have the money. Its more about the number of years than the money. No more than a four year contract or we have learned nothing from the contracts of Gonzalez and Crawford and Beckett for us and Slappy and Pujols and others. Four years. No more. Probably won't get it done, but there ARE other CF, some with a better arm. Furthermore, Ellsbury is a part time player. As of a few months ago he had missed 44% of the games he could have played. Sure, some of his missed time was legitimate, and I am sure as well that some of it was simply that he won't play hurt, unlike others (Pedroia, Ortiz, Vic, Lackey to cite a few who WILL). At contract time all that sick leave comes to roost. Four years, maybe $14M per year absolute MAX.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

    It would be most unpleasant to see ells in pinstripes, but don't believe we can win a bidding war with the yankees, or would even try to win it.  Most everyone wants him back, including management, and ells likes it here, but the money will win out. 

    Moon is right, the future still looks good without ells.  I'm seeing Owens Cecchini and Bogaerts as stars for the sox in the not too distant future.



    I do not want to see Ellsbury go, but any big signing has to be looked at from several different angles, some of which are:

    1) Can the same money be spent elsewhere at a larger net gain to the team?

    2) Does the longterm deal mean half or more of the deal will come post prime?

    3) What are the chances of injury or off seasons? More or less than the norm?

    4) If we are going to spend big and long on any player again, is this the right guy?

     

    In short, is the value of JBJ (or Victorino in CF and others in RF) plus the value of comp pick we get for Ells walking plus whatever we get with the money earmarked for Ells worth more than Ellsbury ?

     
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