Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    I wouldnt be so worried about the luxury tax next year guys. The Sox have about 14M committed to 2016 right now and about 45M committed to 2015. They could sign Ells long term and a couple more shorter deals and go over for 2014, then simply reset the next year.

    So lets not pay too much attention to the luxury tax. The LAD deal left us with this kind of flexibility and I think if Ben can put together a good team and sign a homegrown player long term, he will whether he has to go over the limit for one year or not.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    JBJ strikeouts at at big rate already in Pawtucket. He's already played more games and K'd more than Ellsbury.



    Not the K argument again!

    The kid has a .409 OBP in the minor leagues. I could care less if he K's 59% of the time, if he continues that OBP.

    H'es doing better in AAA than AA and only is in his 2nd full year in professional ball.

    The kid is a great fielder already, but nobody can tell how well he can hit in MLB. It's a gamble either choice we make. There are big pluses and minus with either choice.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

     

    JBJ strikeouts at at big rate already in Pawtucket. He's already played more games and K'd more than Ellsbury.

     



    Not the K argument again!

     

    The kid has a .409 OBP in the minor leagues. I could care less if he K's 59% of the time, if he continues that OBP.

    H'es doing better in AAA than AA and only is in his 2nd full year in professional ball.

    The kid is a great fielder already, but nobody can tell how well he can hit in MLB. It's a gamble either choice we make. There are big pluses and minus with either choice.



    It doesn't have to be a choice. Re- signing Ellsbury does not block Bradley. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    Good to walk, but you better advance. Ellsbury can advance. Otherwise you need hitters too advance you. Did you ever see Ricky Henderson? 59% and you dont care, WOW!

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

     

    JBJ strikeouts at at big rate already in Pawtucket. He's already played more games and K'd more than Ellsbury.

     



    Not the K argument again!

     

    The kid has a .409 OBP in the minor leagues. I could care less if he K's 59% of the time, if he continues that OBP.

    H'es doing better in AAA than AA and only is in his 2nd full year in professional ball.

    The kid is a great fielder already, but nobody can tell how well he can hit in MLB. It's a gamble either choice we make. There are big pluses and minus with either choice.



    I am sure that you are being facetious. You would have a better chance of winning the powerball lottery than you would have of maintaining that OBP with a 59 percent strike out rate. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    2007 Ellsbury started in Double AA, by end of year, he was starting and WINNING a WS. Saw them both play Double AA, Ellsbury better player. In every aspect. Same age too, at the time.

    I respect everybody's opinion.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to darrylfries' comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

     

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

     

     

     

     

    JBJ strikeouts at at big rate already in Pawtucket. He's already played more games and K'd more than Ellsbury.

     

     

     



    Not the K argument again!

     

     

     

    The kid has a .409 OBP in the minor leagues. I could care less if he K's 59% of the time, if he continues that OBP.

    H'es doing better in AAA than AA and only is in his 2nd full year in professional ball.

    The kid is a great fielder already, but nobody can tell how well he can hit in MLB. It's a gamble either choice we make. There are big pluses and minus with either choice.

     

     



    It doesn't have to be a choice. Re- signing Ellsbury does not block Bradley. 

     

     

     



    Yep the way we should go   Think of our Defence in the OF. 

     

      Good enough to bring Wake back.



    it would be great defensively but that OF probably won't produce a ton of pop. My take is that the Sox deal JBJ for a power hitting OF'er and stick him in LF. Gomes is our 4th OF'er vs LHP and Nava is the 4th OF'er vs RHP.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    2007 Ellsbury started in Double AA, by end of year, he was starting and WINNING a WS. Saw them both play Double AA, Ellsbury better player. In every aspect. Same age too, at the time.

    I respect everybody's opinion.



    Bradley may turn out to be as good a player as Ellsbury. The thing is , we have not seen evidence of it as yet. Do we want to take that chance ?  As for the money, when did we cease to be a big market team ?  We have spent plenty on veteran players of just average ability such as Napoli and Dempster . We just traded a brilliant , low cost young shortstop for another high priced veteran . Then , we are supposed to believe that we cannot afford to re- sign Ellsbury ?  Who do you spend the money on? 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?


    I believe the worst park in baseball for Ellsbury is Fenway. Its a power park. Not a base running park. Ellsbury's power is to RF. He has very little ability to hit the monster. His normal stroke is to dunk the ball in front of the LFer. Having the LFer in close hurts Ellsbury. There is not a lot of room to run in left center and right center or even straight back on defense, taking away Ellsbury's strength of speed. Lots of very hard walls that scare him. And short walls that hurt his range too. On the other hand, Texas and New York are perfect for him. San Fran too. And Seattle. He should probably play elswhere. Cincy and Boston should probably switch free agents. Choo for Ellsbury.

    With that said, my limit is probably 5-85. He probably will and should get more elswhere. JBJ will do just fine. Ellsbury likely out performs him next year. However, who will be better 3-4-5-6 years from now. Thats a more debatable question.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to BMav's comment:


    I believe the worst park in baseball for Ellsbury is Fenway. Its a power park. Not a base running park. Ellsbury's power is to RF. He has very little ability to hit the monster. His normal stroke is to dunk the ball in front of the LFer. Having the LFer in close hurts Ellsbury. There is not a lot of room to run in left center and right center or even straight back on defense, taking away Ellsbury's strength of speed. Lots of very hard walls that scare him. And short walls that hurt his range too. On the other hand, Texas and New York are perfect for him. San Fran too. And Seattle. He should probably play elswhere. Cincy and Boston should probably switch free agents. Choo for Ellsbury.

    With that said, my limit is probably 5-85. He probably will and should get more elswhere. JBJ will do just fine. Ellsbury likely out performs him next year. However, who will be better 3-4-5-6 years from now. Thats a more debatable question.



    I would say that 5-6 years from now, there will be players that we have never heard of as yet.  I would say that , but you lost me when you said, " hard walls that scare him."  That line gives you away. 

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    I'm sorry but if we lose Ellsbury, I expect 10 wins below what our final record is this year. Ellsbury gets this team going, I see it.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to BMav's comment:

     


    I believe the worst park in baseball for Ellsbury is Fenway. Its a power park. Not a base running park. Ellsbury's power is to RF. He has very little ability to hit the monster. His normal stroke is to dunk the ball in front of the LFer. Having the LFer in close hurts Ellsbury. There is not a lot of room to run in left center and right center or even straight back on defense, taking away Ellsbury's strength of speed. Lots of very hard walls that scare him. And short walls that hurt his range too. On the other hand, Texas and New York are perfect for him. San Fran too. And Seattle. He should probably play elswhere. Cincy and Boston should probably switch free agents. Choo for Ellsbury.

    With that said, my limit is probably 5-85. He probably will and should get more elswhere. JBJ will do just fine. Ellsbury likely out performs him next year. However, who will be better 3-4-5-6 years from now. Thats a more debatable question.

     



    I would say that 5-6 years from now, there will be players that we have never heard of as yet.  I would say that , but you lost me when you said, " hard walls that scare him."  That line gives you away. 

     




    I am a fan and defender of Ellsbury. Just telling it like I see it.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    Ellsbury 2013

    June .360 avg
    July .312
    Aug. .357

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    Ellsbury

    June .360 avg
    July .312
    Aug. .357

     




    dude is on FIRE!

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    If you sign Ellsbury to a five year deal, you'll be lucky if he plays three seasons.  So if that deal was going to be $85 - $90M, you're looking at about $30M / season.  I'd stay away.  

    I agree that JBJ will be a better player in three years.  Next year Carlos Beltran or maybe Grady Sizemore can be this year's Stephen Drew.

    Also, I haven't given up on Ryan Kalish.  One day we'll see him back on the field and healthy, and he'll turn some heads.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    I do believe you reminded me a couple days ago Dempster wasn't a hitter so perhaps we can take the class together.

     

    If you are talking to me, you believed wrong. I never said anything remotely similar to that.

     

    Your argument on the 18 mil for 5 or 6 is valid Moon that's not my point although some would consider that a bargin.

    I actually think he might get over $20M a year. I don't consider 418M a bargain, but some GM might. Agreed.

     

    My point were your you were going way overboard on how easily we'll replace him and making poor assesment of the talent we'll have available.

    Please. Where did I ever come close to saying Ellsbury can be easily replaced? He can't. My point was this: the trade off is made. If we sign Ellsbury, we don't sign some others and will be weaker at other positions. That's a fact I have yet to even hear you acknowledge.

    The trade of is this:

    Sign Ellsbury, no comp pick, no upgrades at several other positions.

    Do not sign Ellsbury, yes comp pick, $18++M to spend to upgrade 1-4 of these openings: C, 1B, SS or 3B (whichever Boggy does not play), OF and RP.

    No, it's not going to be easy to replace what we lose in Ellsbury. It is a step down to JBJ and Vict in CF, but there is certainly a good hope that the pluses of the draft pick and maybe $20M a year to upgrade other positions can offset the loss in the OF.

     

    I don't think i'm wrong remembering you saying Bradley was ready to replace Ells earlier this year.  Better outfielder decent hitter with a good OBP  were the highlites you noted. Sorry i disagree.

    You are wrong. Once the season started and the draft pick was lost to any team trading for Ellsbury, I stopped arguing for trading Ellsbury.  I wanted JBJ to start the year in AAA. I wanted him called up and give a chgance in CF with Ellsbur moved to LF, but once Nava started killing the ball, that was not going to happen.

     

    I like to hope a root for the young kids but the fact is we'll suffer next year without him.

    Yes, and if we bring him back, we will "suffer" at 2-3 other positions due to lack of funds needed to upgrade.

     

    Yes i know he's gone already so i'll be polite and move on.

    I'm still saying the chance he returns here is less than 1%. I do not think Ben wants to sign anyone for more than 4-5 years, and if he did, it wouldn't be for Ellsbury. It might be for a 40+ HR type hitter.

    Sox4ever

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

     

     

     

    JBJ strikeouts at at big rate already in Pawtucket. He's already played more games and K'd more than Ellsbury.

     

     



    Not the K argument again!

     

     

    The kid has a .409 OBP in the minor leagues. I could care less if he K's 59% of the time, if he continues that OBP.

    H'es doing better in AAA than AA and only is in his 2nd full year in professional ball.

    The kid is a great fielder already, but nobody can tell how well he can hit in MLB. It's a gamble either choice we make. There are big pluses and minus with either choice.

     



    It doesn't have to be a choice. Re- signing Ellsbury does not block Bradley. 

     



    Of course it doesn't. I'm not sure why so many posters insist on implying I mean things I do not say or mean.

    I will say if JBJ and Ellsbury both start, we'll have to trade Nava and/or Gomes or play nava at 1B. That's doable.

    JBJ's top value is in CF. He is not as good as Ellsbury on offense. It might take years to even come close, if ever. I have never said we won't miss Ellsbury. We will.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

     

    SHOW HIM THE MONEY!! SHOW HIM THE MONEY!!! NOW

    LOVE my  Red Sox, Bs, Cs, Pats and enjoy the ride every year. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    Lets put this in perspective.

    Bradley at Pawtucket

    June .256

    July  .224

    Aug.  .250

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

     

    2007 Ellsbury started in Double AA, by end of year, he was starting and WINNING a WS. Saw them both play Double AA, Ellsbury better player. In every aspect. Same age too, at the time.

    I respect everybody's opinion.

     



    Bradley may turn out to be as good a player as Ellsbury. The thing is , we have not seen evidence of it as yet. Do we want to take that chance ?  As for the money, when did we cease to be a big market team ?  We have spent plenty on veteran players of just average ability such as Napoli and Dempster . We just traded a brilliant , low cost young shortstop for another high priced veteran . Then , we are supposed to believe that we cannot afford to re- sign Ellsbury ?  Who do you spend the money on? 

     



    One more time:

    We will have about $45M to spend and we need to fill these slots:

    CF (Ells)

    C (Salty)

    SS (Drew)

    3B (Middy)

    1B (Naps)

    SP (Lester Option?)

    RP (Hanrahan and otehrs)

    If we almost over half that on Ellsbury, we'll have to take a chance on other kids.

    I can see how you don't trust JBJ as our next CF'er, but if we dont go with JBJ, then will you feel cozy with...

    Lava/Vazquez at C?

    Middy at 3B/1B?

    Carp/Nava at 1B?

    Boggy at SS/3B?

    Dempster/prospect at SP?

    Kids in the pen?

     

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

     

    SHOW HIM THE MONEY!! SHOW HIM THE MONEY!!! NOW

    LOVE my  Red Sox, Bs, Cs, Pats and enjoy the ride every year. 



    I needed a PATS fan to back me up.

     
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