Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    Your wrong buddy, Ellsbury beats him in every catergory, stop looking at computer, and watch some real baseball. This year .275 avg,, got caught almost 50 % of the time stealing, dude whats wrong with you.


    Do you really want to cite a down year in a discussion about Jacoby Ellsbury?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    Sure, except he wouldnt take it. BORE-A$$....

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    Your wrong buddy, Ellsbury beats him in every catergory, stop looking at computer, and watch some real baseball. This year .275 avg,, got caught almost 50 % of the time stealing, dude whats wrong with you.


    Do you really want to cite a down year in a discussion about Jacoby Ellsbury?

     




    no no no you bring it I'll respond.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    You seem to be smarter than me.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    You have to be foolish to compare Bourne with Ellsbury, but you you think you know more. Dont care about HR's the best year Bourne had never came close to Ellsbury. In every catergory. Did you know that he struck out 140 times in one season. 20-30 HRS I could deal with it. But 2 thats funny. Holy smokes he K'd 155 time last year, and  we complain about Napoli. Thats real funny.

    Ellsbury worst 98 times.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    If you think Bourne is as good as Ellsbury, you should be assigned to a two year seminar on trying to decipher exactly what " WAR " is all about. The nerd obsession with dubious " metrics " has replaced common sense. No one who knows the game would say that Bourne is on the same level.  

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    Ellsbury is better than Bourn, but we are assuming he can and will play more like 2011 and 2013 than other years. We assume he will be as healthy and steady as Bourn was for the 4-5 years before his contract year.

    Bourn is a great fielder with a better arm.

    Bourn led the league in SBs 3 years in a row then had 42 the year before he signed.

    Worst of the 3 in Red

    It's not just WAR, Bourn had these combined numbers in the 4 years before he signed ('09-'12):  

    611 games and 2708 PAs 

    .280  16  180  (371 Runs) 150 2B+3B

    OBP  .348/ SLG .378/ OPS .726  and 18.8 WAR

     

    Here's Ellsbury's numbers over the last 4 years ('10-'13):

    359 games and 1657 PAs 

    .299  43  179 (243 Runs) 107 2B+3B

    OBP .354/ SLG .464/ OPS .818 and 14.9 WAR 

     

    And, here's BJ's numbers from 2009-2012:

    597 games and 2229 PAs

    .242  80  276 (329 Runs) 142 2B+3B

    OBP .316/ SLG .420/ OPS .736 and WAR 12.9

     

    It's clear that WAR does not dictate salary as BJ got way more than Bourn, but these overall numbers are comparable.

    It comes down to health and consistency with Ellsbury. Right now, he's doing great and many here expect that to continue for 4-6 years. My feeling is at least one Gm will agree, and Jacoby will make much more than Bourn and a bit more than Upton as well.

     

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

     Jacoby will make much more than Bourn and a bit more than Upton as well.

    [/QUOTE]

    as he should

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    It's hard to know where some here really stands on this issue. They say we should sign Ellsbury, but then mention a low price.

    Let's get everyone on record for waht really counts:

    What's the most you'd offer Ellsbury for a 5 or 6 years deal in a bidding war?

    Earlier this year, I think I said I'd offer $68M/5 and $80M/6 tops and that it wouldn't be enough, so he'd walk.

    I'm going to update my offers to this (I suppose they could change a little depending on the end of the season):

    $75M/5 years 

    $87M/6 years

    I would not complain too loudly if we offered $80M/5 or $90M/6.

    I still think those numbers won't land him, but what is the highest you guys would go to keep him here?

    If he signs for more elsewhere, I don't want any of you guys saying you we should have ourbid the other guys if Ellsbury goes on to greatness for the next 5-6 years.

    Give me your tippy top offer- no regrets if he signs for more.

    Sox4ever

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    It's hard to know where some here really stands on this issue. They say we should sign Ellsbury, but then mention a low price.

    Let's get everyone on record for waht really counts:

    What's the most you'd offer Ellsbury for a 5 or 6 years deal in a bidding war?

    Earlier this year, I think I said I'd offer $68M/5 and $80M/6 tops and that it wouldn't be enough, so he'd walk.

    I'm going to update my offers to this (I suppose they could change a little depending on the end of the season):

    $75M/5 years 

    $87M/6 years

    I would not complain too loudly if we offered $80M/5 or $90M/6.

    I still think those numbers won't land him, but what is the highest you guys would go to keep him here?

    If he signs for more elsewhere, I don't want any of you guys saying you we should have ourbid the other guys if Ellsbury goes on to greatness for the next 5-6 years.

    Give me your tippy top offer- no regrets if he signs for more.

    Sox4ever



    im in the camp of giving up whatever it takes to land jacoby. if that means 104/5 or 120/6 (6th year being an option preferably) then so be it

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

     

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

     

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    It can't possibly be for less than !50 mil for 7 years. That's what he's worth and that's what he'l get---from someone!


    Last offseason agent Scott Boras landed lefthand-hitting Gold Glove centerfielder Michael Bourn a four-year, $48 million contract (with a club option for a fifth year at $12 million) when Bourn was coming off a 6.1 WAR season in 155 games (at the same age Jacoby Ellsbury will be this offseason).

    Ellsbury has posted a WAR of 4.6 in 109 games this season (through Saturday) with 42 games remaining.

    Bourn remains a reasonable comp for Ellsbury.

    You kidding me, just look up the stats. Not close, 9 HRs 57 rbi's best season. hahaah

     


    Michael Bourn lacks Jacoby Ellsbury's single outlier season while Ellsbury lacks Bourn's consistency:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=2007&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

     

     

    Save the homeruns and RBI for fantasy baseball.

     



    Steady games played is what helped Bourn get his deal.

     

    I happen to think Bourn was worth more than BJ Upton, but Atlanta's GM thought otherwise.

    I have to think Ellsbury will get more than both of these two. BJ got $75M/5, so that has to be the starting point for Jacoby.

    My guess is he gets at least $90M/5, and probably will get $105M/6 or $120M/7.

    I'd certainly pay him $48M/4 if he'd take it. I'd have to think about $75M/5, but I don't think that gets him, and there aren't many other worthy big ticket FAs out there this year.




    You would pay him 48M/ 4 if he would take it ?  Are you being serious ? Of course he would not take that offer.  Shane gets more than that. Even Dempster is being paid more.  There is no way we can sign Ellsbury for less than we gave Pedroia. If you don't want to do that , then let him walk and take the draft choice.  And , hope the draft choice and Bradley pan out. But don't complain and curse Boras , if and when it all backfires.  We can still have fun trying to be a small time, money ball  team.  Trouble is , that would be wasting our resources and trying to compete with smarter organizations.  It will not work, but we can always have fun on here playing around with it. If , on the other hand , we want to build a championship team , we need to spend the money on the best players , and stop with the fantasy baseball .

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    Bourne struckout 155 times last year, thats hilarious. Not enough money in China to pay Ellsbury.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    Bourne struckout 155 times last year, thats hilarious.




    One thing to remember. Hill is an anti Red Sox troll. Moonslav is not yet onto that fact.  Hopefully , he will come to see that.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?


    Dave Kingman struckout 153 times hit 36 HRS, with 88 rbis with the Mets. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

     

     

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    It can't possibly be for less than !50 mil for 7 years. That's what he's worth and that's what he'l get---from someone!


    Last offseason agent Scott Boras landed lefthand-hitting Gold Glove centerfielder Michael Bourn a four-year, $48 million contract (with a club option for a fifth year at $12 million) when Bourn was coming off a 6.1 WAR season in 155 games (at the same age Jacoby Ellsbury will be this offseason).

    Ellsbury has posted a WAR of 4.6 in 109 games this season (through Saturday) with 42 games remaining.

    Bourn remains a reasonable comp for Ellsbury.

    You kidding me, just look up the stats. Not close, 9 HRs 57 rbi's best season. hahaah

     

     


    Michael Bourn lacks Jacoby Ellsbury's single outlier season while Ellsbury lacks Bourn's consistency:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=2007&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

     

     

     

    Save the homeruns and RBI for fantasy baseball.

     

     



    Steady games played is what helped Bourn get his deal.

     

     

    I happen to think Bourn was worth more than BJ Upton, but Atlanta's GM thought otherwise.

    I have to think Ellsbury will get more than both of these two. BJ got $75M/5, so that has to be the starting point for Jacoby.

    My guess is he gets at least $90M/5, and probably will get $105M/6 or $120M/7.

    I'd certainly pay him $48M/4 if he'd take it. I'd have to think about $75M/5, but I don't think that gets him, and there aren't many other worthy big ticket FAs out there this year.

     




    You would pay him 48M/ 4 if he would take it ?  Are you being serious ? Of course he would not take that offer.  Shane gets more than that. Even Dempster is being paid more.  There is no way we can sign Ellsbury for less than we gave Pedroia. If you don't want to do that , then let him walk and take the draft choice.  And , hope the draft choice and Bradley pan out. But don't complain and curse Boras , if and when it all backfires.  We can still have fun trying to be a small time, money ball  team.  Trouble is , that would be wasting our resources and trying to compete with smarter organizations.  It will not work, but we can always have fun on here playing around with it. If , on the other hand , we want to build a championship team , we need to spend the money on the best players , and stop with the fantasy baseball .

     



    I said I'd give $75M/5 and $87M/6 and wouldn't complain with $80/5 or $90/6, so of course I'd say yes to $48M/4 and jacoby would say no. That was a response to hill comparing Ellsbury with Bourn, not what I think he will be offered.

    I'm still waiting for your top offer. If you don't give it, the don't complain if he signs elsewhere.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

     

    Bourne struckout 155 times last year, thats hilarious.

     




    One thing to remember. Hill is an anti Red Sox troll. Moonslav is not yet onto that fact.  Hopefully , he will come to see that.

     



    I respect hill more than many Sox fans. i know he is a Seattle fan, but that doesn't bother me. hill uses the same criteria for everyone in MLB. I think he over uses WAR, but at least he is consistent with his criteria and doesn't cherrypick sample timeframes and differing stats to suit his position.

    He's not a troll. Not even close. I'll never "come to see that", because it isn't true.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    Ask him if he'll sign for 75m/3Undecided

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    Right, no troll; Hill's an Ms fan and a baseball fan.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

    There is no way I can give you a top offer. That is just a game some are playing. It is up to John Henry how much he wants to spend. I have no idea. I did say that anything less than what he gave Pedroia will not get it done. Take it from there. I have no top offer to give with someone else's money. I will not be the one to complain if he signs elsewhere. I will leave that to others. They can complain and curse Boras.

     

     

     

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

     

     

     

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    It can't possibly be for less than !50 mil for 7 years. That's what he's worth and that's what he'l get---from someone!


    Last offseason agent Scott Boras landed lefthand-hitting Gold Glove centerfielder Michael Bourn a four-year, $48 million contract (with a club option for a fifth year at $12 million) when Bourn was coming off a 6.1 WAR season in 155 games (at the same age Jacoby Ellsbury will be this offseason).

    Ellsbury has posted a WAR of 4.6 in 109 games this season (through Saturday) with 42 games remaining.

    Bourn remains a reasonable comp for Ellsbury.

    You kidding me, just look up the stats. Not close, 9 HRs 57 rbi's best season. hahaah

     

     

     


    Michael Bourn lacks Jacoby Ellsbury's single outlier season while Ellsbury lacks Bourn's consistency:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=2007&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

     

     

     

     

    Save the homeruns and RBI for fantasy baseball.

     

     

     



    Steady games played is what helped Bourn get his deal.

     

     

     

    I happen to think Bourn was worth more than BJ Upton, but Atlanta's GM thought otherwise.

    I have to think Ellsbury will get more than both of these two. BJ got $75M/5, so that has to be the starting point for Jacoby.

    My guess is he gets at least $90M/5, and probably will get $105M/6 or $120M/7.

    I'd certainly pay him $48M/4 if he'd take it. I'd have to think about $75M/5, but I don't think that gets him, and there aren't many other worthy big ticket FAs out there this year.

     

     




    You would pay him 48M/ 4 if he would take it ?  Are you being serious ? Of course he would not take that offer.  Shane gets more than that. Even Dempster is being paid more.  There is no way we can sign Ellsbury for less than we gave Pedroia. If you don't want to do that , then let him walk and take the draft choice.  And , hope the draft choice and Bradley pan out. But don't complain and curse Boras , if and when it all backfires.  We can still have fun trying to be a small time, money ball  team.  Trouble is , that would be wasting our resources and trying to compete with smarter organizations.  It will not work, but we can always have fun on here playing around with it. If , on the other hand , we want to build a championship team , we need to spend the money on the best players , and stop with the fantasy baseball .

     

     

     



    I said I'd give $75M/5 and $87M/6 and wouldn't complain with $80/5 or $90/6, so of course I'd say yes to $48M/4 and jacoby would say no. That was a response to hill comparing Ellsbury with Bourn, not what I think he will be offered.

     

    I'm still waiting for your top offer. If you don't give it, the don't complain if he signs elsewhere.



    There is no way I can give you a top offer. That is just a game some are playing. It is up to John Henry how much he wants to spend. I have no idea. I did say that anything less than what he gave Pedroia will not get it done. Take it from there. I have no top offer to give with someone else's money. I will not be the one to complain if he signs elsewhere. I will leave that to others. They can complain and curse Boras.  And they can continue to speculate on how we can win another championship by refusing to spend money on the top talent, while giving big money , short term contracts to veteran ham and eggers. We can continue to develop our prospects. And then , trade an Iglesias for a Peavy.  And , we can continue to hope that a kid like Cecchini can be our salvation. We can go on like that for years to come. There will always be more prospects to become excited about. Finally , we can continue to try and get lucky with the Dempsters, while others sign guys like Greinke and Sanchez.  I am not trying to be totally negative. We have had a great season so far. I am just trying to say that we cannot hope to compete with the other big market teams without spending the money. Posters can have fun playing with numbers  and trying to put together a fantasy lineup.  No problem with that. In the end , there is a reason why the big market, big spending teams have won so many championships. What do we want to be ? 

    [QUOTE

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

     

     

     

    Bourne struckout 155 times last year, thats hilarious.

     

     




    One thing to remember. Hill is an anti Red Sox troll. Moonslav is not yet onto that fact.  Hopefully , he will come to see that.

     

     

     



    I respect hill more than many Sox fans. i know he is a Seattle fan, but that doesn't bother me. hill uses the same criteria for everyone in MLB. I think he over uses WAR, but at least he is consistent with his criteria and doesn't cherrypick sample timeframes and differing stats to suit his position.

     

    He's not a troll. Not even close. I'll never "come to see that", because it isn't true.




    Now , why would a Seattle fan continually come onto a Red Sox forum and try to provoke Sox fans ?  What would you call that ?  

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Now , why would a Seattle fan continually come onto a Red Sox forum and try to provoke Sox fans What would you call that ?


    Why would anyone study a second language?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Now , why would a Seattle fan continually come onto a Red Sox forum and try to provoke Sox fans What would you call that ?


    Why would anyone study a second language?

     



    LMAO! don't let DG bother you Hill.... he just gets irritable whenever anyone has a differing opinion than him.

    just because a fan from another team participates in this forum does not make them a troll... that's just dumb. like most everyone else here, hill is a baseball fan and he obviously enjoys the baseball discussions otherwise he wouldn't come here..... it's not like every baseball forum has a Notin or southpaw..

    i hop onto the pats forum every now and then. the more ignorant posters there scream troll as soon as they learn i am a dolphins fan... some people just can't handle being disagreed with.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

     

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

     

     

     

     

    Bourne struckout 155 times last year, thats hilarious.

     

     

     




    One thing to remember. Hill is an anti Red Sox troll. Moonslav is not yet onto that fact.  Hopefully , he will come to see that.

     

     

     

     

     



    I respect hill more than many Sox fans. i know he is a Seattle fan, but that doesn't bother me. hill uses the same criteria for everyone in MLB. I think he over uses WAR, but at least he is consistent with his criteria and doesn't cherrypick sample timeframes and differing stats to suit his position.

     

     

    He's not a troll. Not even close. I'll never "come to see that", because it isn't true.

     




    Now , why would a Seattle fan continually come onto a Red Sox forum and try to provoke Sox fans ?  What would you call that ?  

     




    Is there anything that does not bother you? 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    There is no way I can give you a top offer. That is just a game some are playing. It is up to John Henry how much he wants to spend. I have no idea. I did say that anything less than what he gave Pedroia will not get it done. Take it from there. I have no top offer to give with someone else's money. I will not be the one to complain if he signs elsewhere. I will leave that to others. They can complain and curse Boras.  And they can continue to speculate on how we can win another championship by refusing to spend money on the top talent, while giving big money , short term contracts to veteran ham and eggers. We can continue to develop our prospects. And then , trade an Iglesias for a Peavy.  And , we can continue to hope that a kid like Cecchini can be our salvation. We can go on like that for years to come. There will always be more prospects to become excited about. Finally , we can continue to try and get lucky with the Dempsters, while others sign guys like Greinke and Sanchez.  I am not trying to be totally negative. We have had a great season so far. I am just trying to say that we cannot hope to compete with the other big market teams without spending the money. Posters can have fun playing with numbers  and trying to put together a fantasy lineup.  No problem with that. In the end , there is a reason why the big market, big spending teams have won so many championships. What do we want to be ? 

    I had a feeling you'd ride the fence.

    Now, you can come back later and argue either side.

    Sox4ever

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    Now , why would a Seattle fan continually come onto a Red Sox forum and try to provoke Sox fans ?  What would you call that ?  

    He doesn't ever provoke me, and I'm the biggest Sox fane ever.

    He has praised several Sox players. He has been a consistent outside observer who offers another viewpoint.

    What would I call it? I'd call it a baseball fan looking to talk baseball, and maybe not getting many good opportunities within his own team's forums.

    Sox4ever

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Is time to give Ellsbury a 4 year deal for 60M?

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Now , why would a Seattle fan continually come onto a Red Sox forum and try to provoke Sox fans What would you call that ?


    Why would anyone study a second language?

     



    Hill, were you a Seattle Pilots fan?

    I was in Milwaukee when they moved there.

     
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